[SOLVED] Begode selling Master "LiTech" packs: we have a problem

[Paul A]

LiTech is risking their reputation.  

They do not want their packs with Begode BMS.

 

[US69]

1 minute ago, chanman said:

Regardless of the merits of the litech packs (which I do believe are significant, but it is unclear to me how much begode's packs have improved since), this is an outright scam by Begode using Litech's name, even if the packs do/would have materialized with Begode's components and Litech's name on them.

That’s true! No question about it!

 

 

[US69]

And btw:

Meanwhile I would prefer the LG 50 LT (LT are the newer LG cells with continuous 14,6 amps and double lifetime) over the Samsung 50E with 10Amp continuous and the worst internal resistance on 5000mah cells….but that dips into another topic. 
unfortunatly LG with their first version of LG M50T really gave their cell a bad reputation….

[Tawpie]

16 minutes ago, supercurio said:

The problem highlighted is that this choice actually doesn't exist.
The company and brand sold as an upgrade says they don't want to be involved in any of this.

Interesting... if you look at the screenshots at the top of this topic, they refer to "Litech" (lowercase 't') and "Li-Tech" (added hyphen). Neither of these are "LiTech", which seems to be how LiTech Power Co. Ltd refers to itself on their webpage!

A case of poor translation or creative name choice for a not-LiTech-Power-Co.-Ltd battery pack?

The plot thickens...

Edited May 19, 2022 by Tawpie

[US69]

1 minute ago, Tawpie said:

Interesting... if you look at your screenshots at the top of this topic, they refer to "Litech" (lowercase 't') and "Li-Tech" (added hyphen). Neither of these are "LiTech", which seems to be how LiTech Power Co. Ltd refers to itself on their webpage!

A case of poor translation or creative name choice for a not-LiTech-Power-Co.-Ltd battery pack?

The mystery deepens...

I would guess that’s typical GW chenglish poor translation 😂

[supercurio]

@Tawpie I can confirm that both MyEWheel and e-RIDES are involved in handling this, and everybody is talking about the same https://www.litechpower.com/ entity 😆 (did I get all of them right?)

They have different contacts at Begode, and are told different things. There's also back-peddling happening after internal discussions.
It's gonna be a painful delivery.

Edited May 19, 2022 by supercurio

[Tawpie]

2 minutes ago, US69 said:

I would guess that’s typical GW chenglish poor translation 😂

I mean, after all, GW did manage to label some of their own stuff Begoo. So it's possible!

But also sort of a convenient 'error'.

[US69]

1 minute ago, Tawpie said:

I mean, after all, GW did manage to label some of their own stuff Begoo. So it's possible!

But also sort of a convenient 'error'.

GotWay is good for EVERY imaginable failure!!! They delivered my Master with rubber buttons of the Ex20s.

consequence: you can’t turn it on or off!!! no Joke!

which means they didn’t even try if it worked

[US69]

4 minutes ago, supercurio said:

@Tawpie I can confirm that both MyEWheel and e-RIDES are involved in handling this, and everybody is talking about the same https://www.litechpower.com/ entity 😆 (did I get all of them right?)

They have different contacts at Begode, and are told different things. There's also back-peddling happening after internal discussions.
It's gonna be a painful delivery.

Good that I am a casual rider and was happy with the 50E. Would have been a long wait otherwise (Europe)

[supercurio]

Oh by the way @US69 it should not affect the choice of cells, only what Begode branded as "LiTech" option.

[US69]

7 minutes ago, supercurio said:

Oh by the way @US69 it should not affect the choice of cells, only what Begode branded as "LiTech" option.

Sure, I got you right!

It’s that I got my Master from GW directly and they said that 40t,42p (from whom produced whatsoever) would not be ready before a month or two….

[UniBlab]

32 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

I mean, after all, GW did manage to label some of their own stuff Begoo. So it's possible!

But also sort of a convenient 'error'.

At least they have not suggested, "Purchase this, then you'll Be-God!"

Edited May 19, 2022 by UniBlab

[Sandra]

Since the name of our company is also involved, I think it is right to take part in this thread.

As already written above, perhaps some dealers or even most of us offer the Master with Litech assembly.

We and other dealers in Europe and probably outside Europe have placed orders with Begode and expect to receive batteries assembled at Litech. We have only been able to do so because such batteries were offered to us by the manufacturer, in this case, Begode. After all this noise that arose today, we had conversations with an employee of Begode, and they confirmed that the clients who have applied for Litech would receive Litech. How and whether this will happen, I can not say or guarantee. We do not have direct contact with the CEO of Litech, and we do not communicate with them because we actually work with Begode, and if in any way there is a discrepancy between the two companies, we can not and would not know. As of this date, we are still accepting preorders for Litech assembly because we have placed such an order with Begode, and at this time, we have no information that it has been refused or cancelled.

Sandra
MyEWheel

[AtlasP]

3 hours ago, BleepBloopBlop said:

... Outside of Litech offering temperature sensors on their BMS I don't see a technical advantage to them. The controller doesn't integrate with this temperature sensing. It would only be helpful in doing charge cutoff if the cells got out of temperature range. It has been previously mentioned their BMS won't be a smart unit that you can see parallel cell group voltages.

1 hour ago, US69 said:

Sorry, still don’t understand what’s “so good” with LiTech….

  Here is a summary of the improvements in the LiTech packs:

On 10/12/2021 at 12:06 PM, AtlasP said:

September/October Update

Another huge update to rival the last one as the past 6-8 weeks have seen a flurry of activity.

• eWheels has officially launched its unique line of Begode wheels featuring eWheels-sourced battery packs, starting with the T3/Tesla V3, EX.N (HS & HT), Hero, and Commander (HS & HT). This marks the first new Begode wheels added by eWheels in a year(!) (since the RS in Oct of 2020). The eWheels-sourced packs are assembled by LiTech Power and feature the following improvements/capabilities:
  • Imported Korean Samsung 50E cells (Versus the Begode packs which use LG M50LT made in China)
  • Short detection/protection, transient threshold at 300-450A
  • Back up inline 30A physical fuses
  • Each pack fitted with 5x temperature probes & buzzers to alert at a 65°C level & shut-off when the temps exceed 75°C
  • Voltage differential management for packs of unequal voltage, no balance lead required
  • Improved cell-holders for better survivability in the event of crash
  • Upgraded pure nickel strips that are both thicker & wider to withstand higher currents with less resistance—Begode had used ‘inferior plated’ strips on at some of their packs  
  • Automated weld production methods for consistent quality
  • Capacity & stress-testing processes done at the pack level after assembly
  • Photos with further details, here:
    • https://ewheels.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/LiTech-Pack-Features-1-600x437.jpg
    • https://ewheels.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/LiTech-BMS-Features-600x437.jpg
    • https://ewheels.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/LiTech-Cell-Holders-Nickel-Strips-1-600x437.jpg
    • https://ewheels.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/LiTech-Cell-Holders-Nickel-Strips-2-600x437.jpg

...

[from: https://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/17309-euc-comparison-table-project-with-regular-updates-news-roundups/page/4/#comment-389532 ]

 

Edited May 19, 2022 by AtlasP

[Afeez Kay]

Hello All, 

e-RIDES here 👋🏼😊. We had an exchange of messages with Begode to get assurances that we will be getting the LiTech assembled battery contained Masters we placed orders for, in which the answer was..Yes.

We will continue to monitor the situation and react accordingly. As of this moment, we are still expecting to receive our LiTech assembled Masters from Begode, until otherwise stated by Begode.

Peace ✌🏽 e-RIDES 😊

[supercurio]

1 hour ago, Sandra said:

Since the name of our company is also involved, I think it is right to take part in this thread.

Hi @Sandra!

Thanks for jumping in the conversation, it's very appreciated. I hope that it is clear that the intent is to ensure that everyone gets what they ordered, or at least satisfaction in the end with their purchase and their wheel.

I can confirm that what you report here as Begode's message is consistent with what was told to every other distributors I've talked to, and at the same time contradicting what LiTech CEO told me. Then obviously, both can't be true at the same time.

I'll continue investigating to see if something might have been missed like if Begode somehow stroke a deal with a LiTech subsidiary the CEO is not aware about or something like that.

However I think it might be wise for MyEWheel to prepare for Begode not delivering what was expected, a Plan B just in case and I'm sure you already are.

From discussions today I am cautiously optimistic that it would be possible to source LiTech packs (100% LiTech specs, BMS and assembly) for the Master when ready, and RS, Nikola, EX20S, you know all the 900Wh packs already now, for all distributors outside the North American market where eWheels keeps their exclusivity as co-developer of the packs.

As I'm writing this, hey @Afeez Kay thanks for joining as well!

I'll be happy to discuss details further on how we could make that happen together (like as a distributor consortium for cooperation).
Besides the Master, it could a good opportunity to add 3rd party packs as alternative to Begode's standard offering.
There's a fair amount of customers avoiding Begode wheels because of these pack's track record. It would give a shot at solving that.

Edited May 19, 2022 by supercurio

[tk463]

Am I the only one worried here about e-rides and myewheel answer ? Sure, you've messaged begode about the litech packs and got a basic PR answer. I'd be messaging Litech right now if I were in your shoes.

I was debating this week between S22 or Master but since Litech packs are now out of the window (at least in EU) I guess my choice is made.

I'll still wait for Bonheur Sur Seine's review and Wrong Way's teardown of the Master.

[supercurio]

@tk463 Raphaël and I investigation puts both e-RIDES and MyEWheel in an impossible situation right now.

They have no business relationship with LiTech at the moment therefore no "secure" channel with established trust to exchange information they can rely on for business critical decisions, and have a lot to lose if disparaging their business partner Begode, with whom they have a working relationship for years, in case the info I posted here is incorrect.

I can't blame them, plus who says all that? Essentially it's just me, citing 1 source.

I find both their answers fair and clever, writing with a timestamp, for the record, statements that anybody will be able to look up later when it unfolds. Establishing without shadow of a doubt that everything depends on Begode's promises.
Good job with that IMO.

And don't be worried, they both have been very active and helpful into sorting this out. But there are still pieces missing.

It's not impossible my source has a play I have not seen coming and something else is up. Unlikely tho.

Edited May 19, 2022 by supercurio

[chanman]

I would expect the "Litech" packs to be delivered, possibly even actually assembled at Litech's plant as claimed, but with begode provided components. (Maybe also Litech sourced cells, but should be identical to begode's)

The issue is paying a markup ($300 I've seen) basically for use of Litech's factory and name, which provides hardly any actual benefit, and some retailers who didn't make that very clear to the buyers thinking they would get Litech improved components, which are still afaik an EWheels exclusive.

Edited May 19, 2022 by chanman

[tk463]

@supercurio « the manufacturer misled us » is a valid legal point. But from my consumer standpoint, debating between high voltage suspension wheels to buy in the following weeks, this looks like a huge NOPE for the Master AND those shops (or at least would make me message them right away).

They’re not the only ones in that case, we have retailers in France with the same litech listings.

I do keep in mind the eWheels exclusive applies to North America only.

[meepmeepmayer]

I think a good question to ask now is: Was there ever a business agreement between Begode and LiTech, to supply LiTech battery packs (BMS and assembly) to Begode, so they can sell variants of their wheels with these packs? Or was LiTech always only involved with ewheels, and Begode are just lying?

[techyiam]

Something is not adding up.

If Begode was lying to their dealers and distributors before, and got called out now, why would they continue to lie even after e-rides and myewheel confronted Begode. If proven true, this white lie becomes a very serious unscrupulous act, and can really hurt Begode as a business as a result. Begode seem to have invested a lot of serious effort and money to develop their new line of wheels. Why would they jeopardise all that for something so trivial. They can still easily contact LiTech for the markets outside of North America. This doesn't make sense.

Edited May 19, 2022 by techyiam

[Tawpie]

LiTech offers OEM/ODM services via their webpage, I don't see any particular reason Begode couldn't have arranged to have LiTech make packs for them. And as far as LiTech is concerned, they're not shipping to North America—they're supplying a Chinese manufacturer who ships wherever they please. They might have asked or told BG not to ship LiTech packs to North America, but AlienRides has pre-orders up for Master with either LiTech 50E or P42a packs so who knows?

https://www.litechpower.com/oem-odm/

[supercurio]

Following the wise suggestion from someone, I will recommend LiTech to release an official statement.

Something which describes LiTech plans regarding the ongoing collaboration with Begode, clarifying what to expect to happen and not happen.
All that keeping in mind that LiTech needs a working relationship with Begode in order to continue progressing with the redundant Master packs project on onwards, all that despite the mismatches priorities and customers wanting their wheel naow.

It would directly be coming from the most authoritative source, certainly capable of deciding what they will or not "assemble" in their factory, to be advertised and sold as an upgrade under their brand name.

Thinking way ahead of time I can think of two resolutions where this upgrade would still exist:

• if the pack upgrade is not sold as LiTech but something else like "extra strong pack assembly". Price point could be kept. Benefit for the customer: unclear, maybe some QC to avoid a bunch of DOA packs like we've seen recently.
• if Begode eventually strikes a deal with LiTech to distribute 100% LiTech packs with the wheels. LiTech BMS, requirements, manufacturing and all. Might cost more?

From what I gathered in the discussion, Begode BMS and packs sold as By LiTech or LiTech assembled: that ship has sailed. It's not gonna happen.

[Sandra]

Guys, we want to clarify some points that were made. 

Begode, never sold or promised us the batteries specially designed for EWheels NA. We also never took deposits for Masters with such types of batteries. 

All of the clients that reached us received the same information we received from Begode - the materials will be provided by Begode, and Litech will do the assembly. We personally do not believe this extra cost is necessary, but most of our clients still prefer the Litech assembly over the Begode.

We will continue to communicate with Begode, and make sure we fulfil our obligations toward our clients. Again to this day, we have not received any notice from Begode that they will not fulfil our orders with Litech assembled batteries, so there's no room for speculation or worries yet.