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EUC Comparison Table Project with Regular Updates & News Roundups


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  • 1 month later...
On 10/4/2021 at 9:42 PM, /Dev/Null said:

I know this is quite late, but e-wheels is selling the NIkola+ as of Oct 2021:

https://www.ewheels.com/product/new-gotway-nikola-1800wh-battery-2000w-motor-3-wide-tire/

I'm confused by this comment because the Nik+ (100v/1800Wh) is still on the table (has been for years) and has not been removed. Did you maybe not scroll the table far enough? (Or maybe you're confused by it now being under the 'Begode' name instead of the 'Gotway' name?)

Otherwise I certainly appreciate heads up like this when something has been added or removed from one of the distributors. I just don't see how it applies in this case.

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23 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Do you happen to know if the 84V Monster is still in production?

I'm afraid I don't know. The last I heard (months ago), v3 Monsters were still officially NOT discontinued, and they still appear on Begode.com (both the 84v & 100v v3's) including in the hero image alongside the Monster Pro as if they're a parallel product line to the Pro--but nobody is selling them (at least not in NA) and they haven't for a long time now/like a year or more. Begode/Gotway was never one for a cohesive lineup, with lots of random and seemingly-overlapping iterations without clear delineation, so who knows if it's just forgotten in their pursuit of alternatives like the Commander or what the deal is.

Edited by AtlasP
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On 10/12/2021 at 11:06 AM, AtlasP said:

September/October Update

Another huge update to rival the last one as the past 6-8 weeks have seen a flurry of activity.

  • eWheels has officially launched its unique line of Begode wheels featuring eWheels-sourced battery packs, starting with the T3/Tesla V3, EX.N (HS & HT), Hero, and Commander (HS & HT). This marks the first new Begode wheels added by eWheels in a year(!) (since the RS in Oct of 2020). The eWheels-sourced packs are assembled by LiTech Power and feature the following improvements/capabilities:
  • Added lots of details regarding the recently-announced King Song S20, Begode (/"Extreme Bull") Commander, and Begode Hero, including pre-order links at eWheels, EUCO, & Alien Rides.
     
  • Added details regarding the Veteran Abrams, including pre-order link at eWheels.
     
  • InMotion V8S now available from both eWheels and EUCO with appropriate links. (A sizeable boost in battery capacity to one of the highest-selling EUC lines of all time.)
     
  • EUCO reveals that production for the EX has been "paused indefinitely while Begode focus on their new suspension wheel, the 'Hero'". (https://euco.us/products/gotway-ex-electric-unicycle)
     
  • General price changes (of course all increases owing to current supply chain issues covered in previous updates):
    • eWheels has increased prices on a large number of wheels by around $50, with other distributors likely to follow suit as everyone's costs rise.
    • All NA distributors have increased prices of InMotion wheels by around $100. In doing some homework on this I discovered a rumor that apparently IM has implemented a new global pricing policy which may be taking away the discretion of dealers for setting their prices. Make of that what you will/I hope we hear more about this in the coming months.
       
  • EUCO lineup changes:
    • Removed/no longer selling V10 (non-F)?
    • Added 460Wh MTen3 in addition to the 512Wh version they already carried.
       
  • Older model cleanup:
    • V8 (non-F or S) long-since discontinued, now sold out everywhere and removed from table (replaced by both V8F and now V8S).
    • Tesla v2 long-since sold out everywhere and removed from table (replaced by T3/Tesla V3).
       
  • @Marty Backe's 2021 Southern California EUC Tour is happening this weekend, Oct 16-23: https://www.electricunicycleworld.com/p/2021-southern-california-euc-tour.html

 

For more details on all of the wheels referenced here and more, check out the EUC Comparison Table project at https://1drv.ms/x/s!Ag0ky7mWfH9cm9dMfvYothdqZtIsdw --make sure to start with 'Table Notes' first.

Love this summary :thumbup:

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  • AtlasP changed the title to EUC Comparison Table Project with Monthly Updates/News Roundups
  • 3 weeks later...
On 10/12/2021 at 2:06 PM, AtlasP said:

Another huge update to rival the last one as the past 6-8 weeks have seen a flurry of activity.

After hearing the news of the eWheels Service Center fire, I wonder how much of this is still happening, paused, and/or outright canceled. Does anyone know how many wheels eWheels move annually? 

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On 11/1/2021 at 8:56 PM, Giffy said:

After hearing the news of the eWheels Service Center fire, I wonder how much of this is still happening, paused, and/or outright canceled. Does anyone know how many wheels eWheels move annually? 

As explained in Jason's announcement pertaining to the incident, only eWheels' service center in Tuscon was involved in the fire, while their primary inventory is stored in a different location in LA and I think their office operations are also distributed/predominantly WFH at this point. So assuming Jason doesn't decide to completely shut down and walk away from it all (which I would venture the guess that he won't), I believe there could be little-to-no disruption to the release and availability of new wheels through eWheels (which will come in through the LA location and get sent out direct to consumers like always). If there will be any disruption to anything it should mainly be limited to the support and parts side which might take a few months to get back to normal operations.

Edited by AtlasP
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  • 1 month later...

Thank you for the comparison table. It is very useful and I find myself regularly visiting it.

Since I got the mcm5v2 recently, I wanted to report you couple of corrections.

First the tire is the CST 1813. Source: Checked the markings on mine and also https://www.ewheels.com/product/14x2-5-tire-cst-1813-mcm5v2/

Free spin is at least 60km/h for the V2 (gained speed compared to v1, but lost torque). Source: I've seen at least 62km/h on mine and you can see Denis review here hitting 64-65km/h.

Edited by Freestyler
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Great table, I also consult it regularly. I have a correction regarding V8S weight. Apparently, the V8S is 16.8 kg. Source -- ecodrift. Denis Hagov's shop lists the same weight and says it's 900g heavier than V8F. As a quick exercise, I found the cell weights of MJ1 (49g) and M50T (69g), so the weight difference should be 40 x (69-49)g=800g from cells alone.

Note also that V8F apparently used to be 14.5kg at launch (or it was just the promise), but nowadays it is heavier due to cheaper and heavier sideshells of the motor (also discussed in the ecodrift link). The latest V8F weigh 15.9kg, while V8F from April 2020 only weighed 15.1kg.

There is a small chance that different dealers get different versions of V8S  though, this needs checking.

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Just a quick note to say I've seen these last few msgs and it's just been a busy couple weeks months. I hope to get time to address your msgs and finish my next news roundup soon.

Edited by AtlasP
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  • 1 month later...
2 hours ago, RagingGrandpa said:

* EX2 LFP was cancelled; EX2 NMC was renamed EX20S

And X-Men will be branded ExtremeBull.

And RS Resolute LFP 116V is HT only.

Isn’t the ExtremeBull X-Men now renamed the ‘X-M’ or XM?

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  • AtlasP changed the title to EUC Comparison Table Project with Regular Updates/News Roundups
12 minutes ago, AtlasP said:

apparently everyone at Begode had a stroke all at the same time and subsequently announced fifty new half-baked maybe-products

:roflmao:

I think the EX20S and the Master are real, and the rest (RS Resolute, Hero, other EX2 variants) are dead to unlikely.

X-Men/XM I seriously don't know, but I think it will be real. Makes sense as Extreme Bull's second wheel.

17 hours ago, Ben S said:

there are a few more to add

Where does the name "Raptor" come from for the V13? And is it "22 inch" (like the Monster) or "20" inch (like all the others, e.g. the Sherman)?

Edited by meepmeepmayer
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On 1/25/2022 at 3:10 PM, meepmeepmayer said:

And is it "22 inch" (like the Monster) or "20" inch (like all the others, e.g. the Sherman)?

Historically IM has been better than the competition at advertising actual tire sizes instead of made up numbers like Gotway/Begode/Veteran.

Although the question is whether IM actually said "22 inch" anywhere or whether that came from somebody who drinks the Gotway/Begode/Veteran tire-size kool-aid and has that as their frame of reference.

Edited by AtlasP
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Does Gotway/Begode have a website?   Do they post specs?   The information that we're seeing in forums about new wheels, where does it originate from?  It always seems like it's just forwarded from one site to the next.  

I ask because how can we "verify our sources"?  How do we really know a product has been canceled or renamed?   I've been reading about EUCs for more than a year and haven't come across publicly posted information straight from the vendors (aside from the Begode letter suggesting to charge outside).

 

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8 hours ago, Ben S said:

Does Gotway/Begode have a website?   Do they post specs?

http://www.begode.com/ Information content varies by wheel, but they are actually surprisingly up-to-date as far as putting new wheels up.

Master: http://www.begode.com/productinfo/770685.html

EX20S (name change confirmed): http://www.begode.com/productinfo/756873.html

Interestingly the RS Resolute is no longer there (it used to be), so I think it's dead. Would be the only wheel with LFP battery cells now that the LFP EX2 concept has been cancelled. So it would make sense if the effort wasn't worth it.

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14 hours ago, Ben S said:

Does Gotway/Begode have a website?   Do they post specs?   The information that we're seeing in forums about new wheels, where does it originate from?  It always seems like it's just forwarded from one site to the next.  

I ask because how can we "verify our sources"?  How do we really know a product has been canceled or renamed?   I've been reading about EUCs for more than a year and haven't come across publicly posted information straight from the vendors (aside from the Begode letter suggesting to charge outside).

 

InMotion, King Song, and Begode all have official English websites with official specs. (They're linked on the far bottom left of my sheet and one of my primary sources, although they're not great at updating them or correcting errors on them despite me continually hounding them with questions and requesting clarifications.) Only Veteran still doesn't have an official web presence.

IM and King Song have historically released wheels so slowly/infrequently that there's not an established pattern for the distribution of their information before it appears on their website or other major vendors, so that ends up pretty piecemeal and few and far between. But as for Gotway/Begode with their many releases, they have a pretty iconic/recognizable style of spec sheet they send to distributors in advance of new wheels (and before they appear on any websites), and we normally get those leaked on a pretty regular basis.

Edited by AtlasP
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  • 3 months later...

April Update

Alright everyone, guess who's back and spent some hours the past couple days trying to at least start bringing things up to date.

With focus on at least getting *something* done versus letting myself be too paralyzed by the mess that is the EUC market right now (and particularly Begode/Extreme Bull's line-up limbo), I've mostly focused on the set of wheels currently being offered by eWheels and/or EUCO right this second--if those two vendors are confident enough to actually be listing and selling them, they might actually exist/come to western markets/be worth considering.

I unfortunately did not keep my usual meticulous notes on every single little change (just trying to get things up to date as quickly as possible and this part of the process is normally very time-consuming), but here are some notes on big picture changes:

  • Added Sherman Max
  • Added Begode Master
  • Added V12 HT
  • Added HT and/or HS variants of a lot of Begode wheels which previously only had one version (although see below)
  • Added eWheels' variants of both the Nikola+ and S18 with unique Molicel P42a cells assembled by LiTech (better power delivery with worse capacity)
  • Updated eWheels pricing across the board (less changes than one might expect for this span of time)
  • Updated EUCO pricing across the board (also less changes than one might expect, although EUCO continues to basically just copy eWheels pricing with very few exceptions now)
  • Removed Begode EX
  • Removed Veteran Abrams which has disappeared

I'm way behind on broader 'news' aside from those model/spec/price changes as referenced above, but a few things caught my eye:

  • It appears other North American vendors are starting to mention/list LiTech packs while eWheels insists they have an exclusivity deal on these packs from LiTech. Not sure what's going on there but it is definitely something I need to figure out to straighten out the table.
  • eWheels is advertising next batches of V12 HS should have the same upgraded MOSFETs as the forthcoming V12 HT.
  • eWheels has downgraded the S18's recommended weight limit to only 200lbs (!) -- they're always tweaking these values based on data they're receiving from customers, but I've never seen such a drastic reduction like this before. Seems the 3p configuration is indeed problematic.

For the future:

  • Once again I welcome input/leads on changes I've missed as I try to bring things up to date.
  • Can someone point me to the backstory on the S20 now being called the S22? (Not to mention how inconsistently this change has or hasn't propagated across vendors.)
  • I am considering removing the separate columns for HS & HT variants of wheels which otherwise have no other differences including which are sold at the same price. We never get proper/official separated specs for them so they're mostly just redundant columns of the exact same info just with a different name at the top, with obvious negative impact on overall conciseness and readability. We're clearly approaching the time when basically most new Begode wheels can be assumed to have HS & HT variants and nothing else to be said about these variants on a per-model basis. I welcome input on this change.
  • Variants which have more significant changes like different cells leading to different capacities (as in the case of the eWheels' variants of the Nik+ or S18 with Molicel P42a cells), or different prices (as with the V12 HT vs the V12 HS), these would still warrant separate columns.
  • With these latest suspension wheels in a new category of performance compared to the initial suspension offerings, I plan to do some reorganizing of columns particularly involving these higher-end suspension wheels soon.

 

Edited by AtlasP
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58 minutes ago, AtlasP said:

Removed Veteran Abrams which has disappeared

It seems to have some firmware/cutout problems, but I don't believe it has disappeared. Just the delay between planned and actual mass release, I guess.

58 minutes ago, AtlasP said:

Can someone point me to the backstory on the S20 now being called the S22?

After the S20 demo wheel spectaculary caught fire in NYC, KS did upgrade their firmware (general improvements, as well as removing a bug that caused the fire) and promptly renamed the wheel to S22. The S20 is dead, long live the S22. To be fair, KS fixed the bug, did tests and made the results public showing their batteries are good now, and added some extra fuses or whatnot.

@eeveesin their latest comparison video state that the S22 is "the S20 with the new firmware" (meaning not so much the bug fix, just the latest firmware and its riding improvements). The old S20 (sometimes specified as S20B) is just the non-production/prototype wheel from before. So there's only the S22 as far as wheels that were ever officially released.

Of course it's not like there is official communication of this. So dealers will do their own thing until "S22" catches on everywhere, I guess.

58 minutes ago, AtlasP said:

Once again I welcome input/leads on changes I've missed as I try to bring things up to date.

The Master has a weird new battery configuration: 4x 8s4p(33.6V) packs in series. I wish I could see your face when you read that. So technically, 4x8s4p might be more precise than 32s4p. The rest of the wheels have a "normal" configuration as you would expect.

Edited by meepmeepmayer
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1 hour ago, AtlasP said:

the mess that is the EUC market right now

Not too much of a mess, tbh:

  • Begode: Master just out, EX20S not far behind, and who knows about the RS Resolute
  • Veteran: Sherman MAX just out, Abrams gets a firmware update against cut-outs
  • Inmotion: V12 HT coming, V12 HS gets a new board (both... any day now... any day)
  • KS: S22 coming any day now, I don't think any development is left
  • EB: Commander out and great, no word of the X-Men/XM/X-Max

Ok, maybe calling it a mess isn't so wrong either:D But at least it is less chaotic than a few months ago.

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@meepmeepmayermy old friend, happy to see your voice of reason remains on these forums. :-) And thanks for all the leads.

  • eWheels literally pulled their page for the Abrams: https://www.ewheels.com/?post_type=product&p=66155 --and with them seemingly having exclusivity for American distribution, that pretty much means it's dead at least in the US. Will keep an eye on it.
  • I did see the S20 NYC fire, just missed the part where this lead to the name change (although makes sense). Also I hesitated to include this piece of news since I figured I probably missed some other controversies, and including one while missing another/others could be construed as imbalanced/biased. Hope to get caught up on all these things in the next weeks.
  • Quote

    The Master has a weird new battery configuration: 4x 8s4p(33.6V) packs in series. I wish I could see your face when you read that. So technically, 4x8s4p might be more precise than 32s4p. The rest of the wheels have a "normal" configuration as you would expect.

    How about: https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/sonic/images/c/c2/Wat-Meme-07.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20170112221637 . Very much appreciate this heads up though, super interesting. I'll have to look into it.

  • On your last set of bullet points, I'm pretty ok with the set I've currently included while leaving those last few to see how they'll play out in the next weeks.

 

Edited by AtlasP
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  • AtlasP changed the title to EUC Comparison Table Project with Regular Updates & News Roundups
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