Begode Master: Tire options

[RoosterFeet]

There are a ton of conversations online about the Begode Master's lackluster knobby CST-186 tires that come stock with the unit. Some reviewers call it "just okay" while others think it's pure junk. Regardless, there is a lot of interest in swapping out the CST-186 tires from the Master. Note that at the time of this writing, eWheels is still evaluating other tire options, like the Kenda K262 and street Kenda 340A.

Concerns with the knobby CST-186 tire includes lack of overall control, which makes it not so great on trails.

What do you think? Will you swap the CST-186 tire for a different one, or keep it stock? 

[RagingGrandpa]

On 5/28/2020 at 11:34 AM, RagingGrandpa said:

K262 vs C-186:

• K262 knobs are spaced slightly further apart (higher void ratio). More voids are good for loose surfaces and bad for pavement... but the difference is between the two seems marginal.
• Slightly larger OD (sorry I don't have a virgin C-186 to measure... I recommend measuring rolling distance of 1 revolution)
• K262 is just a tiny bit harder, 60 vs 58 via durometer-A.

K262: Fits great, rides great, carving is still fun (my biggest concern).

I'm comfortable saying "it's just as good as C-186."

I rode both back-to-back on dirt, gravel, and asphalt and struggle to feel a difference.

So don't bother swapping C-186 to K262, because they're essentially the same tire.

Instead, if you don't like C-186, consider a more-pavement-focused tire like K66 Snowtex, K340, etc. 
All listed here:  https://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/19972-18x3-street-tire-catalog-msupers-sherman-etc/

[Whalesmash]

It would be great if one of the early adopters could test if the shinko 244 will fit. It's on the higher side of a 20 inch tire so it might be tight in the vertical clearance. If it does fit, that would be a really good thing since that tire is super easy to get. Street tires should be much easier. A Michelin pilot street in 80/90-14 would probably fit without any problems.

[Esash]

51 minutes ago, RoosterFeet said:

There are a ton of conversations online about the Begode Master's lackluster knobby CST-186 tires that come stock with the unit. Some reviewers call it "just okay" while others think it's pure junk. Regardless, there is a lot of interest in swapping out the CST-186 tires from the Master. Note that at the time of this writing, eWheels is still evaluating other tire options, like the Kenda K262 and street Kenda 340A.

Concerns with the knobby CST-186 tire includes lack of overall control, which makes it not so great on trails.

What do you think? Will you swap the CST-186 tire for a different one, or keep it stock? 

I hated the CST-186 tire at first on my Hero. You get used to it relatively quickly, you just have to learn how to turn on it.

I think most of the complaints about the tire on the Master have more to do with the sky high pedal height, which is very unsettling. The Master pedal height is even higher than on the Hero.

I quickly learned that I should just deflate the tire a bit for more stability, which people have been doing with great results for years on that 186 tire.

And I also lowered the suspension air pressure which lowered the pedal height. 

These two changes made the wheel feel much more like a normal EUC.

Remember that all these early reviewers are rushing to get their first videos out, so they're opening the box, pumping up the tire to full inflation, and jacking up the suspension air pressure to 200-275. Then they record their unsettling first experience, but they're not even sure what exactly is causing the unease.

I looked up the 186 tire here in the archives, and everybody was raving about it when they first got to use it on their MSXs. It wasn't even available in the US so it was like a rare luxury.

Just lower the tire pressure a bit and your contact point with the road will be 2-3 inches wide, very stable, and very sufficient for road use (and awesome on trails).

Having said all that, watch this video. This guy loved the michillen city street wheel on his Hero.

So if you're doing almost all road riding, you might want to do the same.

Me, I'm just gonna ride this tire bald and then Maybe try a street tire in 1-2 years.

 

Edited April 28, 2022 by Esash

[redfoxdude]

I'm personally used to and comfortable with a more sensitive tire like the Michelin City Pro and the Chao Yang H666, so I'm going to change mine. I snagged a K66 to try and see what all the hype is about =)
I think what @Esash said about the pedal height is probably it - the combination of high pedals and having to lean the CST-186 over so far (esp. compared to street tires) on tight turns is very unsettling, as if you're going to fall over. It also felt a little sluggish to me, like when I leaned or straightened up, there was a little delay for the tire to lean or straighten up. Unfortunately I'm not sure what the tire pressure was at when I tried out the Master, I would have liked to see what it felt like at a lower pressure if it was indeed high.

[Esash]

55 minutes ago, redfoxdude said:

I'm personally used to and comfortable with a more sensitive tire like the Michelin City Pro and the Chao Yang H666, so I'm going to change mine. I snagged a K66 to try and see what all the hype is about =)
I think what @Esash said about the pedal height is probably it - the combination of high pedals and having to lean the CST-186 over so far (esp. compared to street tires) on tight turns is very unsettling, as if you're going to fall over. It also felt a little sluggish to me, like when I leaned or straightened up, there was a little delay for the tire to lean or straighten up. Unfortunately I'm not sure what the tire pressure was at when I tried out the Master, I would have liked to see what it felt like at a lower pressure if it was indeed high.

Oh yeah I'd do the same if I lived in San Fran. I'd probably even hire Alien Rides to do the tire swap.

[onkeldanuel]

I have switched the tyre from every euc i had to this CST 186, because its really great (and its basically exactly a K262)

There we're almost only great Reviews in the past for this for general use Off- and onroad ...

The only Thing which can make the need to get used to this tirechoice even more is the very high Pedals....

And the worst one can do with this tire is Pump IT Up above 30psi because then IT gets skechy for sure! I ride that tire at 25psi at 200lbs on my V11 or RST for example

Edited April 29, 2022 by onkeldanuel

[EMA]

high COG wheels amplifies the tire behaviour, people need to adapt both things, tire and COG. 

c186 is top choice for offroad, soft and grippy, there's nothing better if this is your primary goal
for street riding there are tons of better option listed by @mrelwood

[onkeldanuel]

1 hour ago, EMA said:

high COG wheels amplifies the tire behaviour, people need to adapt both things, tire and COG. 

c186 is top choice for offroad, soft and grippy, there's nothing better if this is your primary goal
for street riding there are tons of better option listed by @mrelwood

Yeah agree 100%....

For me its perfect because of 80 to 20 Offroad to pavement but can Not Imagine to Ride this tire with more than 30psi, IT needs and can Take relatively Low Psi, its beefy

 

 

 

 

 

[Ronin Ryder]

Its not a matter of early reviewer rushing and not knowing why they dont like as mentioned earlier... This cst is just terrible for street, and even more with wind gusts. Yes you get used to it after a while, but why needing to make efforts while you could get a better riding experience.... Im switching to michelin pilot street. 

Edited April 29, 2022 by Ronin Ryder

[mrelwood]

I find it interesting but understandable that a tire that was raved two years ago is now getting a bad rep. I’m sure that the pedal height and tire pressure play a huge role, but I also know the downsides of the C-186 are still there to some extent.

 We are still pioneering the tire options on EUCs. Especially on motorcycle tires. To me the H-666 used to be the clear winner, now it’s the K66. And I’m sure that in a few years it will be yet another tire, as long as it only has the number six in the model name…

My guess is that the K66 behavior would fit the Master very well, although it might not carve at higher speeds in a way that some people would like, since it tends to stay slightly more upright than some other tires. The behavior is relatively light though, and it can be forced to tip.

I have zero experience with pure street tires like the CityPro, Angel, etc, so I can’t assess how well they’d fit the Master. But I’m sure there are people to pioneer in that front as well, sooner than later.

[EMA]

4 hours ago, mrelwood said:

I find it interesting but understandable that a tire that was raved two years ago is now getting a bad rep. I’m sure that the pedal height and tire pressure play a huge role, but I also know the downsides of the C-186 are still there to some extent.

 We are still pioneering the tire options on EUCs. Especially on motorcycle tires. To me the H-666 used to be the clear winner, now it’s the K66. And I’m sure that in a few years it will be yet another tire, as long as it only has the number six in the model name…

My guess is that the K66 behavior would fit the Master very well, although it might not carve at higher speeds in a way that some people would like, since it tends to stay slightly more upright than some other tires. The behavior is relatively light though, and it can be forced to tip.

I have zero experience with pure street tires like the CityPro, Angel, etc, so I can’t assess how well they’d fit the Master. But I’m sure there are people to pioneer in that front as well, sooner than later.

the truth is that tons of peopls spread words about euc and tire without proper skill or experience, simply becouse they don't know what is related to

reminds me the 2020 sherman/knobby combo hype...amazing tire, super stable, easy wheel, no wobble.......then they realize that pedals are closer to ground than ever before 

[zeroSIXzero]

On 4/28/2022 at 10:24 PM, RagingGrandpa said:

So don't bother swapping C-186 to K262, because they're essentially the same tire.

Instead, if you don't like C-186, consider a more-pavement-focused tire like K66 Snowtex, K340, etc. 
All listed here:  https://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/19972-18x3-street-tire-catalog-msupers-sherman-etc/

Not completely true. It is not the same tire, just looks almost the same.
Kenda have a bit stiffer knobs sideways as the small cuts in the knobs do not go all the way thru the knobs as on CSTc186. And the spacing between each row is smaller on the Kenda, making it a but more round and balanced while carving. Other than that they are quite similar.
I ride CST myself, but I have looked at them both in detail to check for the small differences. I think I would prefer the Kenda but it was not available at the time of my purchase.

Edited May 1, 2022 by zeroSIXzero

[Gustesta]

Please, does anyone know a link for a city street tire to the Begode Master?  Thanks.

 

Edited June 2, 2022 by RagingGrandpa
(fix format)

[UtahRider]

EWheels has several 18x3 14” tires in stock. I bought 2 H666s yesterday for my RS and Master when delivered.

[Meserias]

What tire should I need to buy and mount for my arrival soon, Master v2 ?

1. it should fit without modification of the wheel or battery position
2. I need a tire profile between off road and street (aka dual-sport)
3. better to be soft and not heavy for easy nimbleness

I need your help on this one with your experience.
I have no experience with tires.

What model do you recommend....What should I need to buy ?

[Cerbera]

On 6/3/2022 at 6:00 AM, UtahRider said:

EWheels has several 18x3 14” tires in stock. I bought 2 H666s yesterday for my RS and Master when delivered.

Have you fitted that yet ? I am trying to work out if the '3' in your '18 x 3 14' might matter or not. I was under the impression we want 2.75 there (quoted specs, other dealers etc), or is it too close to make any practical difference ?

Edited August 23, 2022 by Cerbera

[EMA]

1 minute ago, Cerbera said:

Have you fitted that yet ? I am trying to work out if the '3' in your '18 x 3 14' might matter or not. I was under the impression we want 2.75 there (quoted specs, other dealers etc), or is it too close to make any practical difference ?

18x3.0 with bike label is the same as 2.75-14 motorcycle label

 

https://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/19313-tire-sizes-explained/

[Cerbera]

2 minutes ago, EMA said:

8x3.0 with bike label is the same as 2.75-14 motorcycle label

Oh, how sensible  lols. That DEFINITELY won't lead to any confusion...

 

Edited August 23, 2022 by Cerbera

[UtahRider]

3 hours ago, Cerbera said:

Have you fitted that yet ? I am trying to work out if the '3' in your '18 x 3 14' might matter or not. I was under the impression we want 2.75 there (quoted specs, other dealers etc), or is it too close to make any practical difference ?

On my RS, yes and I like it. On my Master, no cuz I’m still waiting for it. It’s very close to the same width of the RS stock CST tire but feels smoother on road.

[mrelwood]

On 8/23/2022 at 5:45 PM, EMA said:

18x3.0 with bike label is the same as 2.75-14 motorcycle label

 

https://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/19313-tire-sizes-explained/

... which is the same as 80/90-14. How hard can it be?? 

[mrelwood]

On 8/23/2022 at 11:56 AM, Meserias said:

What tire should I need to buy and mount for my arrival soon, Master v2 ?

1. it should fit without modification of the wheel or battery position
2. I need a tire profile between off road and street (aka dual-sport)
3. better to be soft and not heavy for easy nimbleness

I need your help on this one with your experience.
I have no experience with tires.

What model do you recommend....What should I need to buy ?

I do love mine, which is why I also recommend it often, but you might want to look into the Heidenau K66 80/90-14. It might fit your requirements rather well.

[wstuart]

I asked ewheels for a kenda 262.  I'll try it, but I'm gonna get a shinko 244 in case.

[btl]

Hi,

after receiving the Master, i replaced the CST C186 with the Shinko SR241 (the 244 is mostly not available in EU). I also had bad experience with stones getting between wheel and case on my EX.N, and with that rather thin plastic battery, i was concerned. My solution was making battery covers from 0.8mm sheet metal. It covers whole inside and front / back of each battery. I did add some washers behind the battery pack mounts to free up a few mm so the Shinko SR-241 would have enough free space.

 

 

And for those who don't see the difference from C186 to SR241 because of the similar Knobby pattern:

Sure, this pic shows both tires uninflated, which exaggerates the flatness of the C186, but it is less round in the middle and gets tighter radius rounded to the corners. The SR241 (and Kenda K262 and Shinko SR244) have an evenly rounded shape, which serves for a nice predictible turning. Grip offroad is very similar, but carving on asphalt or concrete is vastly different between CST C186 and the other mentioned tires. You can get used to the CST C186, but i rather use a nicely rounded one.

Have fun with your wheels,

Stefan

 

Edited August 27, 2022 by btl
picture aspect ratio