134V RS: 70mph 25kg!

[Tawpie]

3 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

bigger capacity Master (134V and 3600Wh presumably) and a 134V EX20S (134V and 3600Wh) is now.

I can't tell if the suspension geometry is actually different mechanically, it does look different. Perhaps the EX20S was built for more net payload?

[alcatraz]

I'd like a mini Master! (16in-134v) Or an RS134V with 50S cells that are high current and capacity. 

[Nick McCutcheon]

13 hours ago, Ronin Ryder said:

Its already available sir, just not advertised cause no mass production. Ask your dealer, not to begode directly, they never disclose anything interesting on social medias to random messages. But master with more battery capacity is also on its way. No release date on this one

Source/who is your dealer? If it is available, I would really like to get one. Lukas knows me as a EUCO tech, so I'm not sure how I can go any higher.. maybe they'll respond to Rose, the CEO. 

[techyiam]

54 minutes ago, Nick McCutcheon said:

If it is available, I would really like to get one. Lukas knows me as a EUCO tech, so I'm not sure how I can go any higher.. maybe they'll respond to Rose, the CEO.

The plot thickens. Afeez Kay at e-rides was able to buy one. But he said it was a one-off just for him. Now Ronin Ryder is stating certain people is allow to buy one too? And you are already a EUCO tech, and you didn't know. I wonder whether @Ronin Ryder  is going to get into trouble for leaking out this info.

Edited May 3, 2022 by techyiam

[Nick McCutcheon]

18 minutes ago, techyiam said:

The plot thickens. Afeez Kay at e-rides was able to buy one. But he said it was a one-off just for him. Now Ronin Ryder is stating certain people is allow to buy one too? And you are already a EUCO tech, and you didn't know. I wonder whether @Ronin Ryder  is going to get into trouble for leaking out this info.

To be fair, Begode doesn't really announce anything outside of new wheel renders, you do kind of have to ask to get any info from them and like Ronin says they're less likely to give out info to randoms who message them. Plus, Lukas deals in customer service, so he may not have the latest info.

I don't know Ronin personally but he seems like a pretty connected guy, I'm sure he has an in with Begode somehow. I do wonder how he is able to get this info about low volume wheels though.. possibly a different Begode employee or his dealer is better connected with Begode.

However, a "higher capacity master" would essentially be a 134V EX20S, assuming the same number of cells would be used (3600Wh is possible in a 32S configuration). The only question is whether C30 would be available, Lukas also told me there are currently no plans for Master C30, but again, who knows especially since MSK exists.

Fun fact, as far as I know anyone can become a Begode dealer, you just need to buy a certain number of wheels from them at once and you're eligible. This is how people like Ray Rokni (great guy btw from what I've heard) are able to get hot new wheels on their own before they are in customers' hands, he acts as a "dealer" and can import wheels for close friends as well almost immediately after Begode starts to manufacture them.

[techyiam]

10 hours ago, Nick McCutcheon said:

To be fair, Begode doesn't really announce anything outside of new wheel renders, you do kind of have to ask to get any info from them and like Ronin says they're less likely to give out info to randoms who message them. Plus, Lukas deals in customer service, so he may not have the latest info.

Thanks. Appreciate the info.

 

10 hours ago, Nick McCutcheon said:

he has an in with Begode somehow. I do wonder how he is able to get this info about low volume wheels though.. possibly a different Begode employee or his dealer is better connected with Begode.

Just my speculation. Kevin took down his video on the Begode 134V RS-19. I take this as being Begode not only not wanting the general public to be able to buy it, but also perhaps Begode doesn't want the public, or its competitors to know much about it. The website myinmotion.com appears to be a website run by EUCO? Also, Rose did an interview with the CEO of Inmotion. I am wondering whether Rose is seen as having too close a tied to Inmotion that Begode doesn't want to make available the 123V RS-19 to EUCO?

 

10 hours ago, Nick McCutcheon said:

However, a "higher capacity master" would essentially be a 134V EX20S, assuming the same number of cells would be used (3600Wh is possible in a 32S configuration). The only question is whether C30 would be available, Lukas also told me there are currently no plans for Master C30, but again, who knows especially since MSK exists.

I am speculating here again. E-rides, EEVEES, and EUC Sales have said they won't be carrying the Begode EX20S. I think Begode may be planning to discontinue the EX20S in the US and European markets, and let the Master carry the torch for the near future.

 

10 hours ago, Nick McCutcheon said:

as far as I know anyone can become a Begode dealer, you just need to buy a certain number of wheels from them at once and you're eligible.

Good to know.  Thanks.

Edited May 3, 2022 by techyiam

[meepmeepmayer]

4 hours ago, techyiam said:

I am speculating here again. E-rides, EEVEES, and EUC Sales have both said they won't be carrying the Begode EX20S. I think Begode may be planning to discontinue the EX20S in the US and European markets, and let the Master carry the torch for the near future.

Good speculation. All this talk, and the fact that 134V+3600Wh is obvious and all the pieces for it are in place... makes me think the EX20S could be a wheel like the Hero. Technically available and being produced, but with a (better, 134V and it could lose some weight and be one refinement iteration later) successor available only few months later.

The EX.N and RS duality could at least be explained by not having enough space for 2700Wh in the RS shell, and the history of the EX being a suspension experiment and thus being a different wheel. But I cannot see much sense in a 2400Wh+134V vs. 3600Wh+100V forced compromise.

Any thoughts why these dealers won't carry the EX20S, besides a possible successor coming soon? Maybe it is just too heavy?

[techyiam]

 

1 hour ago, meepmeepmayer said:

All this talk, and the fact that 134V+3600Wh is obvious and all the pieces for it are in place... makes me think the EX20S could be a wheel like the Hero. Technically available and being produced, but with a (better, 134V and it could lose some weight and be one refinement iteration later) successor available only few months later.

I think the Hero missed its mark. Begode underestimated Kingsong 2nd gen suspension wheel. Begode had to pull out the Master out of a hat rather quickly to compete in specs and price. 

My gut feeling tells me Begode intended the EX20S to be a real product in their lineup. Unfortunately, for Begode, their minimalist styling was not well received.  Exposed parts like battery packs and headlights made it looked too much like an early prototype. Many were stunned when they found out that it was in its final form. So, it looks like it is going the way of the Hero by taking early retirement.

I think the early successor was forced. Begode doesn't seem to have a choice because the dealers/distributors don't seemed to be all that interested in the EX20S. 

 

1 hour ago, meepmeepmayer said:

But I cannot see much sense in a 2400Wh+134V vs. 3600Wh+100V forced compromise.

Me thinks the 2400Wh & 134V spec was designed for competing head on against the S20/22, whereas the 3600Wh 100V spec was to target something altogether different. Unfortunately, for Begode, there doesn't seemed to be much of a bite for the latter.

 

1 hour ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Any thoughts why these dealers won't carry the EX20S, besides a possible successor coming soon? Maybe it is just too heavy?

I don't really have thought on this since I haven't ridden one yet.

Afeez Kay and Denis did mention about weight. Overall, Afeez didn't think the EX20S was going to sell well, and is a niche wheel.

Bradley @ EEVEES and Denis @ EUC Sales stated their reasons as to why they won't be bringing the Begode EX20S in below. 

 

Time-stamped. 

 

 

Edited May 3, 2022 by techyiam

[nute]

I think you'd have to be nuts to do anywhere near that speed on and EUC, it's a headline waiting to happen after someone kills themselves. 

Id rather spend money on a wheel with higher build quality/ higher torque, better waterproofing, component redundancy etc than an ever increasing top speed. 

[Esash]

6 hours ago, techyiam said:

I think the Hero missed its mark. Begode underestimated Kingsong 2nd gen suspension wheel. Begode had to pull out the Master out of a hat rather quickly to compete in specs and price. 

I don't think the Hero missed the mark at all. Neither does MADpack:

 

The S20/S22 appears to perform exactly like a Hero high speed, but with worse build quality, unproven reliability, a wider rim, and a better suspension for big jumps.

The Hero takes the very most reliable and high performance 100v EUC components (RS/EX framework) and adds an ultra-high build, ultra-water resistant metal exoskeleton.

The fact that nobody has noticed that the S20/S22 performs with the exact same power curve as a Hero/EX.N high speed has nothing to do with the Hero actually "missing the mark" in reality.

If any wheel "missed the mark", it's the S20/22, that hasn't even come out yet and barely even matches Begode's 'last gen' model, the Hero.

 

[Esash]

7 hours ago, techyiam said:

 

I think the Hero missed its mark. Begode underestimated Kingsong 2nd gen suspension wheel. Begode had to pull out the Master out of a hat rather quickly to compete in specs and price. 

My gut feeling tells me Begode intended the EX20S to be a real product in their lineup. Unfortunately, for Begode, their minimalist styling was not well received.  Exposed parts like battery packs and headlights made it looked too much like an early prototype. Many were stunned when they found out that it was in its final form. So, it looks like it is going the way of the Hero by taking early retirement.

I think the early successor was forced. Begode doesn't seem to have a choice because the dealers/distributors don't seemed to be all that interested in the EX20S. 

 

Me thinks the 2400Wh & 134V spec was designed for competing head on against the S20/22, whereas the 3600Wh 100V spec was to target something altogether different. Unfortunately, for Begode, there doesn't seemed to be much of a bite for the latter.

 

I don't really have thought on this since I haven't ridden one yet.

Afeez Kay and Denis did mention about weight. Overall, Afeez didn't think the EX20S was going to sell well, and is a niche wheel.

Bradley @ EEVEES and Denis @ EUC Sales stated their reasons as to why they won't be bringing the Begode EX20S in below. 

 

Time-stamped. 

 

 

The EeVees guys have been riding EUCs for about 1 year. They come from a graphic design type of background, and in an earlier video they made it clear that they thought the EX20s was very ugly and they didn't think it would sell well, and that is why they weren't going to carry it.

In this video they add in that they "don't know how reliable it's going to be", but they made it perfectly clear in the earlier video that the looks and potential lack of big sales was the real reason they were not going to carry the EX20s.

And just 3 months ago the Eevee guys literally awarded Begode the title of "Most reliable" Brand with by far the lowest percentage of warranty issues.

And they all but admitted that InMotion was the worst as far as reliability, with all the warranty repairs they've had to do with the V11 and V12.

The EX20s, like the Hero, is based on the most reliable technology in the EUC world, as even the Eevee guys admitted, praised, and awarded Begode for.

So again your arguments that the Hero missed the mark, and the EX20s was "forced" seem like quite the reach.

Neither the Eevee guys nor Denis in the video below that value touring/long rides in their EUC tastes. Denis said the EX20s doesn't fit the category of "mobile transport". Yeah no kidding. It's for long adventures, not urban commuting in Vancouver or metro Europe.

[Tawpie]

In defense of the eevee's guys, it is really expensive for a retailer to carry a new item. You as the retailer have to believe that you can move enough stock to cover the associated costs and it's pretty simple arithmetic. If there's any possibility at all that a particular model may be a stalking horse for the next great thing, why would you carry the stalking horse?

I think BG was betting that Hero could hold a $4k price point at least for a while, but KS called that bet and BG had to raise with Master. As a result, Master has made Hero redundant on so many fronts that distribution is sitting on a lot of unsold Heros… as a retailer I wouldn't want to repeat that and order a bunch of 100V EX20Ss that I already know appeal to a very select (and limited) audience. I'd much rather have my capital and inventory space devoted to Masters flying through my warehouse, pre-ordered into the second or third batch. Successful retail is about inventory turns. If you stock speciality items, you need them to be able to carry a lot of markup and I don't think EX20S is far enough ahead of the pack to command super premium markup.

I see BG well positioned to move their entire line to 134V based on the Master's control board. Hide and count the days until we see a 22" 3600 wH 134V BG... 100V is yesterday's bird cage liner. MProSuperDuper is coming. Sooner than you think.

 

Edited May 4, 2022 by Tawpie

[eevees]

2 hours ago, Esash said:

The EeVees guys have been riding EUCs for about 1 year. They come from a graphic design type of background, and in an earlier video they made it clear that they thought the EX20s was very ugly and they didn't think it would sell well, and that is why they weren't going to carry it.

In this video they add in that they "don't know how reliable it's going to be", but they made it perfectly clear in the earlier video that the looks and potential lack of big sales was the real reason they were not going to carry the EX20s.

And just 3 months ago the Eevee guys literally awarded Begode the title of "Most reliable" Brand with by far the lowest percentage of warranty issues.

And they all but admitted that InMotion was the worst as far as reliability, with all the warranty repairs they've had to do with the V11 and V12.

The EX20s, like the Hero, is based on the most reliable technology in the EUC world, as even the Eevee guys admitted, praised, and awarded Begode for.

So again your arguments that the Hero missed the mark, and the EX20s was "forced" seem like quite the reach.

Neither the Eevee guys nor Denis in the video below that value touring/long rides in their EUC tastes. Denis said the EX20s doesn't fit the category of "mobile transport". Yeah no kidding. It's for long adventures, not urban commuting in Vancouver or metro Europe.

Hey, I thought I would chime in here. First off, I’ve been riding PEVs for the last 5 years. However, started riding EUCs almost 2 years ago. I’ve rode the EX20S and didn’t like how it rode but more importantly, we’re not carrying the EX20S because we feel like it will be a flop like the Hero. We lost a lot of money on the Hero and have literally sold zero units and stocked up on units and parts… (a big mistake on our part).
 

We’re downsizing our product offering to only 10 flagship EUCs instead of the current 21 models we carry for better parts supply and more efficient servicing. We’re not only doing this for EUCs but our scooters too. We hope to get the current manufacturers to start focusing on quality, not quantity. Too many models means too many “first batch issues”. 
 

I also want to add that I love touring. I rode from Vancouver to Whistler which is quite a long journey on one of the most beautiful highways. I ride my Sherman Max for trips like that. 

Edited May 4, 2022 by eevees
Added to my post

[meepmeepmayer]

16 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

but KS called that bet

We really have to be thankful for KS for this adjustment towards (a little bit) more reasonable EUC prices! The Hero price is just absurd for an 1800Wh wheel, and a culmination of ugly increasing prices with the Sherman and Monster Pro.

[Esash]

10 hours ago, eevees said:

We lost a lot of money on the Hero and have literally sold zero units and stocked up on units and parts… (a big mistake on our part).
 

Your video on the Hero basically told your customers not to buy it, so it's no surprise you didn't sell a single one.

Your review of the Hero was by far the most negative review of the Hero, which you probably don't realize. 

Like I said, you're newbies compared to everybody else who reviews or sells EUCs. 

"We hope to get the current manufacturers to start focusing on quality, not quantity. Too many models means too many “first batch issues”."

You say that, but then you irrationally bash the Begode Hero, perhaps the most well made wheel from the most reliable brand of EUCs. You all but told your customers not to buy it, then you call it a flop.

Alien Rides is already out of stock of their Hero high speeds. 

Even now, it wouldn't occur to you that the Hero is better made than the Master and S20. And it still would not occur to you to actually make a video testing the performance of a Hero (HS or HT) against the S20.

And back to the issue of reliability. In your (creative) end of year awards show, you gave high praise to the Inmotion V11 and V12, only indirectly addressing their terrible reliability by leaving them off your nominees for most reliable brand.

Now you downplay the issues with the S20 suspension getting gummed up with dirt/debris. As if your customers own a shop and can hand their wheel off to an employee to regularly open up and clean.

If you want to tell your customers that repairing the suspension on the S22 is no big deal, maybe you should actually get your hands dirty and try it yourself at least once.

If you want to actually sell your Heroes, I'd imagine Alien Rides would take them off your hands for what you paid for them. They gave the wheel a fair shake in their review, not trying to score cool points with the anti-Begode scooter kids.

Or you could, I don't know, admit to your customers that the Hero is like an Inmotion V11 but much more reliable, much more powerful, much faster, and includes a bunch of things that V11 customers have to pay extra for, like best-in-industry pedals and stock power pads.

I know you guys are still learning, but that's all the more reason to be extra humble and open-minded. 

So lend a Hero and an S22 to an experienced local Vancouver rider and have them test acceleration, braking, hill power, etc. 

The first hint that you might have been dead wrong about the Hero should have been when Marty smoked the S20 on the (overheat) hills in LA.

 

 

your video:

 

 

[Esash]

10 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

We really have to be thankful for KS for this adjustment towards (a little bit) more reasonable EUC prices! The Hero price is just absurd for an 1800Wh wheel, and a culmination of ugly increasing prices with the Sherman and Monster Pro.

The Hero's price is $3250 at Alien Rides. The mythical $4,000 price tag was never actually a real thing.

If the V11 is worth $2200, and it is, then surely a much more powerful, much more reliable, better built version, with a bigger battery, is worth $800-1000 more.

And I've yet to see evidence that the S22 has more range. We all know that higher voltage means lower efficiency.

 

[chanman]

The hero is a last gen wheel at this point. I don't see why anyone would go for it with both the S22 and the Master to choose from at the same price. This isn't a personal attack on you even though you own one. You don't have to respond like it is.

[Paul A]

https://today.yougov.com/topics/lifestyle/articles-reports/2021/01/28/most-rude-polite-states-poll

January 28, 2021

These are the rudest states in America, according to people who live there

YouGov recently asked more than 77,000 people whether they think the people in their state tend to be more rude or more polite than most Americans. 

The self-declared rudest state in America is Rhode Island, where 42% say they believe people in their state tend to be more rude than most Americans.

Just 9% of Rhode Island’s residents say they think their population is unusually polite.  

Residents of several other Northeastern states also tend to think the people who live there are exceptionally rude.  

 

Edited May 4, 2022 by Paul A
Addition of date

[Esash]

34 minutes ago, chanman said:

The hero is a last gen wheel at this point. I don't see why anyone would go for it with both the S22 and the Master to choose from at the same price. This isn't a personal attack on you even though you own one. You don't have to respond like it is.

I agree with you on the Master, which Actually outperforms the Hero.

[Esash]

 

[Funky]

21 hours ago, nute said:

I think you'd have to be nuts to do anywhere near that speed on and EUC, it's a headline waiting to happen after someone kills themselves. 

Id rather spend money on a wheel with higher build quality/ higher torque, better waterproofing, component redundancy etc than an ever increasing top speed. 

So true.. All these "new" wheels are mediocre at best. (Shit like ks20/22 < that suspension sliders are joke.) Suspension(sliders) should be in water/air/dust tight enclosure, only thing there should be grease - no sand, etc..

Good waterproof wheel, high torque, smart BMS, with good safety - all bells/whistles..

Fuck speed - who would go 70mph on one wheel. 40mph is plenty, for 25kg wheel!!!

[Tawpie]

oof. That took an odd turn!

Trying to stay on topic, my purpose wasn't to bash any particular wheel, it was more to point out that I think BG got pushed to 134V quicker than their original marketing plan—but that means they are now in position to actually offer 134V across their entire product line—from bare bones non-suspension 25 kg all the way to long range suspended cruisers. I do think Master has given BG a working 134V platform that they will extend, and 134V automatically makes 100V wheels less appealing.

It's a bit of an inflection point in the BG lineup in my opinion, perhaps in the industry and that makes it a tricky time for retailers. Our tastes change rapidly, and when the number of offerings move as fast as BG has released over the last year, retail is very challenging.

Edited May 4, 2022 by Tawpie

[Mango]

1 hour ago, Esash said:

Your video on the Hero basically told your customers not to buy it, so it's no surprise you didn't sell a single one.

Your review of the Hero was by far the most negative review of the Hero, which you probably don't realize. 

Like I said, you're newbies compared to everybody else who reviews or sells EUCs. 

"We hope to get the current manufacturers to start focusing on quality, not quantity. Too many models means too many “first batch issues”."

You say that, but then you irrationally bash the Begode Hero, perhaps the most well made wheel from the most reliable brand of EUCs. You all but told your customers not to buy it, then you call it a flop.

Alien Rides is already out of stock of their Hero high speeds. 

Even now, it wouldn't occur to you that the Hero is better made than the Master and S20. And it still would not occur to you to actually make a video testing the performance of a Hero (HS or HT) against the S20.

And back to the issue of reliability. In your (creative) end of year awards show, you gave high praise to the Inmotion V11 and V12, only indirectly addressing their terrible reliability by leaving them off your nominees for most reliable brand.

Now you downplay the issues with the S20 suspension getting gummed up with dirt/debris. As if your customers own a shop and can hand their wheel off to an employee to regularly open up and clean.

If you want to tell your customers that repairing the suspension on the S22 is no big deal, maybe you should actually get your hands dirty and try it yourself at least once.

If you want to actually sell your Heroes, I'd imagine Alien Rides would take them off your hands for what you paid for them. They gave the wheel a fair shake in their review, not trying to score cool points with the anti-Begode scooter kids.

Or you could, I don't know, admit to your customers that the Hero is like an Inmotion V11 but much more reliable, much more powerful, much faster, and includes a bunch of things that V11 customers have to pay extra for, like best-in-industry pedals and stock power pads.

I know you guys are still learning, but that's all the more reason to be extra humble and open-minded. 

So lend a Hero and an S22 to an experienced local Vancouver rider and have them test acceleration, braking, hill power, etc. 

The first hint that you might have been dead wrong about the Hero should have been when Marty smoked the S20 on the (overheat) hills in LA.

 

 

your video:

 

 

I think you need a hug.

[.....]

[eevees]

1 hour ago, Esash said:

Your video on the Hero basically told your customers not to buy it, so it's no surprise you didn't sell a single one.

Your review of the Hero was by far the most negative review of the Hero, which you probably don't realize. 

Like I said, you're newbies compared to everybody else who reviews or sells EUCs. 

"We hope to get the current manufacturers to start focusing on quality, not quantity. Too many models means too many “first batch issues”."

You say that, but then you irrationally bash the Begode Hero, perhaps the most well made wheel from the most reliable brand of EUCs. You all but told your customers not to buy it, then you call it a flop.

Alien Rides is already out of stock of their Hero high speeds. 

Even now, it wouldn't occur to you that the Hero is better made than the Master and S20. And it still would not occur to you to actually make a video testing the performance of a Hero (HS or HT) against the S20.

And back to the issue of reliability. In your (creative) end of year awards show, you gave high praise to the Inmotion V11 and V12, only indirectly addressing their terrible reliability by leaving them off your nominees for most reliable brand.

Now you downplay the issues with the S20 suspension getting gummed up with dirt/debris. As if your customers own a shop and can hand their wheel off to an employee to regularly open up and clean.

If you want to tell your customers that repairing the suspension on the S22 is no big deal, maybe you should actually get your hands dirty and try it yourself at least once.

If you want to actually sell your Heroes, I'd imagine Alien Rides would take them off your hands for what you paid for them. They gave the wheel a fair shake in their review, not trying to score cool points with the anti-Begode scooter kids.

Or you could, I don't know, admit to your customers that the Hero is like an Inmotion V11 but much more reliable, much more powerful, much faster, and includes a bunch of things that V11 customers have to pay extra for, like best-in-industry pedals and stock power pads.

I know you guys are still learning, but that's all the more reason to be extra humble and open-minded. 

So lend a Hero and an S22 to an experienced local Vancouver rider and have them test acceleration, braking, hill power, etc. 

The first hint that you might have been dead wrong about the Hero should have been when Marty smoked the S20 on the (overheat) hills in LA.

 

 

your video:

 

 

Sounds like someone is hating pretty hard. We provide honest, unscripted reviews. I absolutely love how the Hero rode and did not find our review hating on it. Our Hero review video didn’t get that many views is surely not the reason why it’s not selling. We also donated a Hero to Marty to review and we have had our local shredders test the hero with us as well as every other new wheel we get. Did you not see us let hundreds of riders of all skill levels test and ride the S22 on our demo tour?
 

People don’t want the Hero because it’s too expensive and Begode released 2 other wheels shortly after.

 

Also, with us being “new” riders, that helps the general public who have never rode a wheel learn which wheel to buy. Not everyone watching our videos are purists. We’re proud to convert so many new riders here in Canada through our lessons and retail store experience. People come in looking for a scooter, we we instead sell them an EUC.
 

Our “newbie” perspective, store, and YouTube channel is converting riders faster than any other company. If you don’t like our reviews or style, don’t watch us. But what we’re doing is working and it’s working very well and you should be praising what we’re doing for the EUC community. Us not carrying the EX20S has clearly rubbed you the wrong way. We still brought some in for our local purists but won’t sell them publicly as we cut down our product offering. Another business reason for this is the “jam paradox” where too many choices confuses consumers and weakens sales. There are many reasons for our decision to not carry the EX20S and cut half our product offerings but what’s not going to hurt is how many people we convert into riders, our main goal and focus at eevee’s: to change the public perception of PEVs. 

Edited May 4, 2022 by eevees
Typo