V12 Cutout tracking

[Richardo]

11 hours ago, Silverfish said:

So, how long realistically until there is a clearer picture of what is going on here?

 

One thing this made me think of: there are going to be a certain percent of home repairs that are ruined through user error, shorting a mosfet, etc. 
 

Not casting shade on anyone, its just statistically how its going to work out with hundreds of people from ll backgrounds doing a complicated repair in their house with whatever random tools they have. 
 

if people start tracking these failures, itd be good to track whether its “diy” or a professional repair. 

11 hours ago, Silverfish said:

So, how long realistically until there is a clearer picture of what is going on here?

 

One thing this made me think of: there are going to be a certain percent of home repairs that are ruined through user error, shorting a mosfet, etc. 
 

Not casting shade on anyone, its just statistically how its going to work out with hundreds of people from ll backgrounds doing a complicated repair in their house with whatever random tools they have. 
 

if people start tracking these failures, itd be good to track whether its “diy” or a professional repair. 

[Richardo]

11 hours ago, Silverfish said:

So, how long realistically until there is a clearer picture of what is going on here?

 

One thing this made me think of: there are going to be a certain percent of home repairs that are ruined through user error, shorting a mosfet, etc. 
 

Not casting shade on anyone, its just statistically how its going to work out with hundreds of people from ll backgrounds doing a complicated repair in their house with whatever random tools they have. 
 

if people start tracking these failures, itd be good to track whether its “diy” or a professional repair. 

[rolis]

So I connected to the ios app

no issue.. what??

Then I decided to let it balancing for a while while leaning against the wall. After about 5minutes, it stopped balancing, started yelling “please repair” and I got an error code in the app again.

 

It was late already, so I gave up and decided to wait for what inmotion has to say.

I let it charge overnight since it came with 91Volts.
In the morning, the charger indicated with the green led that the wheel is fully charged, but the wheel was showing the same voltage as it was in the evening.

So I connected my other charger to see if there was any current flowing.

0.13 Amps. Either the wheel is charged and is indicating it wrong (in the mobile app too), or there is an issue with charging.

Yesterday I worked nearly the whole day on the wheel, disassembling, assembling, testing and finding issues. 
I have been waiting for it since September 2021! And now that its here with the new board, I am just very disappointed and sad.

[Richardo]

11 hours ago, Silverfish said:

So, how long realistically until there is a clearer picture of what is going on here?

One thing this made me think of: there are going to be a certain percent of home repairs that are ruined through user error, shorting a mosfet, etc. 
 

Not casting shade on anyone, its just statistically how its going to work out with hundreds of people from ll backgrounds doing a complicated repair in their house with whatever random tools they have. 
 

if people start tracking these failures, itd be good to track whether its “diy” or a professional repair

[Clark Wong]

Hello , for this issue I need to know some details . 
1.What the Inmotion APP version of two differernt phone 
2. Please send me the vehicle information on the App (About Vehicle )
3.Upload the log file . 

Edited May 31, 2022 by Clark Wong

[rolis]

7 minutes ago, Clark Wong said:

Hello , for this issue I need to know some details . 
1.What the Inmotion APP version of two differernt phone 
2. Please send me the vehicle information on the App (About Vehicle )
3.Upload the log file . 

1. The inmotion App on ios and android are the latest versions. I deleted and downloaded them again to be the newest. ios should be version 7.10.4 and android I dont know since I dont have the phone with me, but it is the newest.

2. You mean serial number? If yes, contact me on Telegram so I can send it to you: https://t.me/roliwe

3. It is already uploaded

[Wolverine]

While reading the latest posts, there is one more thing that has begun to worry me. For some strange reason, the Inmotion app works differently on both android and iPhone. I noticed this a long time ago on my V11. There are many issues with updating the V11 firmware on the iPhone, but the android phone can handle the V11 firmware update. Now it seems that there are problems with V12 as well. The iPhone Inmotion app says the diagnostics revealed problems, while the android Inmotion app says the diagnostics were fine. What is going on?

[rolis]

Just now, Wolverine said:

While reading the latest posts, there is one more thing that has begun to worry me. For some strange reason, the Inmotion app works differently on both android and iPhone. I noticed this a long time ago on my V11. There are many issues with updating the V11 firmware on the iPhone, but the android phone can handle the V11 firmware update. Now it seems that there are problems with V12 as well. The iPhone Inmotion app says the diagnostics revealed problems, while the android Inmotion app says the diagnostics were fine. What is going on?

I had problems updating the firmware on the v12 from the ios app too. It just said that I have to put the vehicle upright. Everything was done correctly, but it just wouldnt do it. I managed it only after resetting the board by plugging out the batteries. Then it let me update just before it went into "please repair" mode. The problem was sadly not solved by the update.

[Unventor]

4 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Sorry, but that's such a dumb comment. Blaming the buyer for expecting a working and safe 2500€ product? Did I forget about the part where we put a gun to Inmotions head, forcing them to make bad hardware and release the wheel then?

That is your opinion. 

But I can't understand that people would buy a wheel on preorder so far ahear without a shown functional model. Here I think of how many that said they prebooked the KS S20 or whatever they call it these days. 

Also when we talk time frame here Inmotion are slowed by the global component shortage that is wide spread to almost any product that contain electronic components. 

Now I am pretty sure none are happy about the situation at all. How it cold happen in the first place is hard to explain as I see it. The V12 has been in development for a long time. Originally it was supposed to be launched side by side in Las Vegas in January the same year as the V11 got launched but that too was postponed until April and delivery in short numbers over summer. 

Now when we talk bad situations I think that a S20 can burn due to a software fault is pretty bad that should not be able to happen. 

So if we take a different product like Volkswagen and their electric cars how they could decide to launch ID3 and ID4 with well known problems and still took orders on these that 8 months later had not been resolve for effected customers. And yet people still buy these. That is why I see it as much as the consumer to blame. 

[Paul A]

Pre-orders seem to be mainly beneficial for the manufacturers/retailers, not for the consumer.

The consumer pre-ordering seems to be motivated by impatience.

 

[rolis]

Yep. I dont like the Idea of a preorder aswell. The manufacturers can promise whatever they want so that the consumer gets on the hype train, but if they really can deliver is another question.

[Paul A]

Maybe people should have realized from the S18 model, that it might be better to wait and see.

The first adopters/guinea pigs will uncover the unknown problems over extended time, with real life usage.

Reviews are probably not as reliable.

[Rawnei]

I don't think the pre-ordering makes any difference, release date is not set from amount of pre-orders it's the other way around pre-orders are available when the manufacturer has set a release date so it's not like the manufacturer is rushing the product because of pre-orders for the date they have set themselves.

Now say nobody pre-ordered, what difference would it make? People would eventually buy the wheel and find the flaws when it's released either way, if everyone was just waiting forever that means no wheels got sold which means no wheels would be made.

Blaming customers for lack of testing and QC is ridiculous, these are things the manufacturers should improve, now if a manufacturer is notorious and not improving then voting with your wallet (not buying their wheels at all) maybe possibly might change something (for better or for worse) but that will also mean you might not get the wheel you wanted despite it's flaws.

In this particular case and I think and I hope that Inmotion are highly motivated to fix the issue because it hurts both sales and reputation.

[Paul g]

10 hours ago, Unventor said:

That is your opinion. 

But I can't understand that people would buy a wheel on preorder so far ahear without a shown functional model. Here I think of how many that said they prebooked the KS S20 or whatever they call it these days. 

Also when we talk time frame here Inmotion are slowed by the global component shortage that is wide spread to almost any product that contain electronic components. 

Now I am pretty sure none are happy about the situation at all. How it cold happen in the first place is hard to explain as I see it. The V12 has been in development for a long time. Originally it was supposed to be launched side by side in Las Vegas in January the same year as the V11 got launched but that too was postponed until April and delivery in short numbers over summer. 

Now when we talk bad situations I think that a S20 can burn due to a software fault is pretty bad that should not be able to happen. 

So if we take a different product like Volkswagen and their electric cars how they could decide to launch ID3 and ID4 with well known problems and still took orders on these that 8 months later had not been resolve for effected customers. And yet people still buy these. That is why I see it as much as the consumer to blame. 

OK, interesting turn, let’s blame the buyer for InMotion’s f.ups 😂😂

And, by the way, I ordered the V12 only after I’ve seen in depth reviews made by Adam- Wrong Way and Mickey-evX. And some more, if I remember well. Nobody could imagine the enormity of this InMotion f.up at that moment. I can’t wrap my head around it not even now. The biggest ever in EUC history! 

[Paul g]

10 hours ago, Paul A said:

Maybe people should have realized from the S18 model, that it might be better to wait and see.

The first adopters/guinea pigs will uncover the unknown problems over extended time, with real life usage.

Reviews are probably not as reliable.

In a new product, small defects are somewhat acceptable and can be solved by the manufacturer with recalls and repairs, or release of better variants, but something like what we have here is unacceptable from the start. 

[conecones]

14 hours ago, techyiam said:

Sorry, but I believe @Unventor may have a point.

I have to say the buyers should share some of the blame.

For example, there are enough buyers who would preorder first batch wheels (even zeroth batch sometimes) knowing full well those wheels will have issues. 

What can I say. The manufacturers keep repeating this charade models after models, and buyers keep coming back for more.

And the competition among the manufacturers don't help either.

If one manufacturer comes out with a hot item, and garner a ton of preorders, the other manufacturers would have to scramble to announce something that looks competitive or even better in order to steal back some of the preorders and sales. The manufacturers don't have to worry too much about issues because the buyers complain a bit online, and then will always come back again to preorder for the next round. Manufacturers know that most buyers will only buy one of competing choices that are available for that particular round, so they are forced to respond fast. After all, not everyone can buy one of each euc in one go like @FrenchUsa. 🙂

And the said thing is I am not immune. I said I won't buy another early batch, but guess what, I close to preordering one. Nah, I am not addicted. Logic is meant to be defied.

This notion of blaming the pre-order buyers/market forces is a weak excuse to begin with but in this specific case it can't even be applied. The V12 is not the KS20 where pre-orders were taken while it was still a rendering. The V12 demo units were already making its rounds to reviewers in May 2021, and the cut-outs started in December 2021 on batch 2 units. 7 months is an eternity in this fast paced EUC market. Like so many others, I bought the V12 after lengthy research and specifically waited until this second batch (revised handle, multiple firmware updates) because it was well received by all reviewers and I considered it a mature product after so many months of nothing but positive reviews. I did not pre-order. I bought it from a retailer in December while it was in stock.

It is now May 2022, and we still do not know if this year old+ wheel is safe? Weak rims, cheap stock tires, glitchy software, we can expect and forgive on a first batch, but it is not acceptable to wait this long for a self-balancing device to reliably self-balance when going over a bump - we are not asking for anything new here.

Instead, I see Inmotion is spending cash promoting the HT model, showcasing riders doing stunts the average consumer has no intention of doing, all for the purpose of marketing and selling more units. This makes me sick. How about spending that extra cash on doing an actual recall, halting orders, and fixing the problems? It also does not surprise me that not a SINGLE reviewer/influencer (other than MADpack) that previously promoted the V12 has made a follow up video warning about the V12 cutouts. I can't prove it but I suspect Inmotion had a hand in that. Meanwhile, lots of misinformed videos about Gotway fires from those same reviewers though. 

This argument of blaming the V12 screw up on "pre-orders" or "impatience of customers" has no leg to stand on and I will gladly challenge anyone trying to justify this.

[Paul A]

Customers are pre-ordering because they are impatient. 

They want to be first in line to purchase a new wheel.

That is the only supposition being made.

[jimjam.nyc]

1 hour ago, conecones said:

It is now May 2022, and we still do not know if this year old+ wheel is safe? Weak rims, cheap stock tires, glitchy software, we can expect and forgive on a first batch, but it is not acceptable to wait this long for a self-balancing device to reliably self-balance when going over a bump - we are not asking for anything new here.

Instead, I see Inmotion is spending cash promoting the HT model, showcasing riders doing stunts the average consumer has no intention of doing, all for the purpose of marketing and selling more units. This makes me sick. How about spending that extra cash on doing an actual recall, halting orders, and fixing the problems?

I can't agree with this more! Watching the marketing train for the HT, while I ride at 20kph and cringe over every crack in the sidewalk is maddening. I feel lucky with my v12 that it is working. I think grabbing a batch 1 in this case worked out better for some reason.. It really bothers me to say how turned off i am by this whole v12 thing, because on one hand i am REALLY enjoying my v12 and it currently works.. but on the other hand i feel like sooner or later i will need new teeth.

I will say that i think a lot of the problems with the new boards may be installation errors, etc.. I dont want to assume just yet.. but the thought to have these installed anywhere and everywhere with no consistent plan in place could be hurting this wheel even more.

All of this aside there is a lot of rumblings about overall quality on these latest wheels taking a hit. Even the mighty veteran wheels havent been spared. not that it makes me feel any better.

 

 

[Paul g]

1 hour ago, conecones said:

This notion of blaming the pre-order buyers/market forces is a weak excuse to begin with but in this specific case it can't even be applied. The V12 is not the KS20 where pre-orders were taken while it was still a rendering. The V12 demo units were already making its rounds to reviewers in May 2021, and the cut-outs started in December 2021 on batch 2 units. 7 months is an eternity in this fast paced EUC market. Like so many others, I bought the V12 after lengthy research and specifically waited until this second batch (revised handle, multiple firmware updates) because it was well received by all reviewers and I considered it a mature product after so many months of nothing but positive reviews. I did not pre-order. I bought it from a retailer in December while it was in stock.

It is now May 2022, and we still do not know if this year old+ wheel is safe? Weak rims, cheap stock tires, glitchy software, we can expect and forgive on a first batch, but it is not acceptable to wait this long for a self-balancing device to reliably self-balance when going over a bump - we are not asking for anything new here.

Instead, I see Inmotion is spending cash promoting the HT model, showcasing riders doing stunts the average consumer has no intention of doing, all for the purpose of marketing and selling more units. This makes me sick. How about spending that extra cash on doing an actual recall, halting orders, and fixing the problems? It also does not surprise me that not a SINGLE reviewer/influencer (other than MADpack) that previously promoted the V12 has made a follow up video warning about the V12 cutouts. I can't prove it but I suspect Inmotion had a hand in that. Meanwhile, lots of misinformed videos about Gotway fires from those same reviewers though. 

This argument of blaming the V12 screw up on "pre-orders" or "impatience of customers" has no leg to stand on and I will gladly challenge anyone trying to justify this.

I don’t think the reviewers were disingenuous. Just like other batch 1 riders, the V12 lasted very long, so long they might have not noticed anything wrong with it, at least not more than with other first batch models.

Edited May 31, 2022 by Paul g

[Mrd777]

1 hour ago, conecones said:

batch 2 units.

Did we not have board failures on batch 1?

[jimjam.nyc]

6 minutes ago, Mrd777 said:

Did we not have board failures on batch 1?

Some will say there were much less of batch 1 failing.. but its only a matter of time.. it is hard to know what exactly went on. It really depends on who you speak to, and everyone you talk to seems to know more than everyone else. There is a lot of noise to weed through. Which is why all i ever really wanted was semi-frequent updates from inmotion or ewheels (or any distributor) but we really just didnt get that. 

[Steve Evans]

4 hours ago, jimjam.nyc said:

Some will say there were much less of batch 1 failing.. but its only a matter of time.. it is hard to know what exactly went on. It really depends on who you speak to, and everyone you talk to seems to know more than everyone else. There is a lot of noise to weed through. Which is why all i ever really wanted was semi-frequent updates from inmotion or ewheels (or any distributor) but we really just didnt get that. 

yes - its aggravating when some folks present opinion and suspicion as fact 

[rolis]

We got some news regarding my weird behaving v12.

Inmotion claims that it needs a new driver board, that's the blue one on the right. That should mean that the new main board should be completely fine. I will get it probably next week and give you a final update on this once I have it installed and tested.

Edited June 1, 2022 by rolis

[skedra]

15 hours ago, conecones said:

This notion of blaming the pre-order buyers/market forces is a weak excuse to begin with but in this specific case it can't even be applied. The V12 is not the KS20 where pre-orders were taken while it was still a rendering. The V12 demo units were already making its rounds to reviewers in May 2021, and the cut-outs started in December 2021 on batch 2 units. 7 months is an eternity in this fast paced EUC market. Like so many others, I bought the V12 after lengthy research and specifically waited until this second batch (revised handle, multiple firmware updates) because it was well received by all reviewers and I considered it a mature product after so many months of nothing but positive reviews. I did not pre-order. I bought it from a retailer in December while it was in stock.

It is now May 2022, and we still do not know if this year old+ wheel is safe? Weak rims, cheap stock tires, glitchy software, we can expect and forgive on a first batch, but it is not acceptable to wait this long for a self-balancing device to reliably self-balance when going over a bump - we are not asking for anything new here.

Instead, I see Inmotion is spending cash promoting the HT model, showcasing riders doing stunts the average consumer has no intention of doing, all for the purpose of marketing and selling more units. This makes me sick. How about spending that extra cash on doing an actual recall, halting orders, and fixing the problems? It also does not surprise me that not a SINGLE reviewer/influencer (other than MADpack) that previously promoted the V12 has made a follow up video warning about the V12 cutouts. I can't prove it but I suspect Inmotion had a hand in that. Meanwhile, lots of misinformed videos about Gotway fires from those same reviewers though. 

This argument of blaming the V12 screw up on "pre-orders" or "impatience of customers" has no leg to stand on and I will gladly challenge anyone trying to justify this.

Very well said, and the fact is, they basically released the V12 HT before fixing the issue on the HS. It's hard to have confidence in any of their products now that they have shown how much they "care" about safety... 

[Rawnei]

Other than @rolis problems with a brand new V12/Board, are there any other known cases of new board failures?