Who to trust?

[CarlW]

I came to this forum to learn more about selecting my first EUC.  YouTube reviews also played a major roll in my decision making.  There are always potential ulterior motives for whatever information is posted online.  Please correct me if my perspective is wrong but EUC manufacturers and resellers appear to have decided a handful of social media "Influencers" is all they need to market and promote their new products.  I have no idea how these people are selected.  Are they the best riders, or do they just produce the most entertaining and watched videos and willing to serve as a crash test dummy on brand new models.  Most importantly which of these folks has a history of accurate and fair reviews.  Which reviewers do you trust?

          

 

 

 

   

 

 

 

 

     

[Roadpower]

I think the best thing to do is get a cross section of opinions. The reality is that opinions are always weighted by the person offering the opinion. This forum itself has debated the pros and cons of an given wheel or manufacturer countless times. Also what wheel works well for one person might be a total stinker for another person, these devices are like anything else, pros and cons.

That said I do think there are a good number of Youtuber's who tend to fluff up products that are questionable. I don't think that they are necessarily doing this on purpose, it's just that a person has biases and sometimes those biases may be influenced by rewards. Lastly, riding wheels is very subjective.  Basically you have to ask a lot of questions to figure out what might work best for you.

[.....]

15 hours ago, CarlW said:

I came to this forum to learn more about selecting my first EUC.  YouTube reviews also played a major roll in my decision making.  There are always potential ulterior motives for whatever information is posted online.  Please correct me if my perspective is wrong but EUC manufacturers and resellers appear to have decided a handful of social media "Influencers" is all they need to market and promote their new products.  I have no idea how these people are selected.  Are they the best riders, or do they just produce the most entertaining and watched videos and willing to serve as a crash test dummy on brand new models.  Most importantly which of these folks has a history of accurate and fair reviews.  Which reviewers do you trust?

Trust Noone. Espeically disregard those that tend to use absolutes. You know, like when I suggest to trust NOONE.  Ironic isnt it? I think the manfacturers shop around for the channels that have the most viewers. Its that, or the people with the viewers, go shopping for companies. I'd imagine people who are negative in nature and very critical, are not being called to review by the companies. Too much risk for the company to let a wild card and blatanty honest/opinionated person to review a product first. Business is business after all.

All I know is, the fancy channels with lots of viewers, are typically that way because they put a lot of time in it. The creators KNOW what they are doing. If you feel like you are being marketed to, you more than likely are.  Its catch 22, but i tend to take the opinions of the 'polished' channel, with a grain of salt. I tend to perk up when people complain tho. It aint like you get paid to complain. Hell, people HATE hearing anything negative about a wheel they either have or want. Warranted or not, negative reviews don't earn views.

 

Edited June 15, 2021 by ShanesPlanet

[Camenbert]

12 hours ago, CarlW said:

Which reviewers do you trust?

I trust my wallet, and what is the bare minimum of what I need. In my case, as 1m90 & 90kg, it would be a wheel with some power.
Even on this very forum, I receive advise to choose a 18" wheel, with the bigger the better about battery...
But I found my MCM5 at $480, it's was the right choice for me

Morality, listen more to yourself than Influencers, they have no clue of your needs

[Scottie]

13 hours ago, Roadpower said:

I think the best thing to do is get a cross section of opinions. The reality is that opinions are always weighted by the person offering the opinion.

I think this gets to the core of it. There are YT people that that try to present the good and bad points of a wheel. I gravitate towards these opinions. It is best to watch all kinds of reviews so you can find your truth in the crazy mix ... what @Roadpower said.

 

2 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said:

Its catch 22, but i tend to take the opinions of the 'polished' channel, with a grain of salt.

Agreed. If the review starts feeling like I am watching a TV commercial, then that one gets less credit ... not to say that there is not still some value in it.

 

1 hour ago, Camenbert said:

Morality, listen more to yourself than Influencers, they have no clue of your needs

Some more truth here ...

 

[Seba]

16 hours ago, CarlW said:

I came to this forum to learn more about selecting my first EUC.  YouTube reviews also played a major roll in my decision making.  There are always potential ulterior motives for whatever information is posted online.  Please correct me if my perspective is wrong but EUC manufacturers and resellers appear to have decided a handful of social media "Influencers" is all they need to market and promote their new products.  I have no idea how these people are selected.  Are they the best riders, or do they just produce the most entertaining and watched videos and willing to serve as a crash test dummy on brand new models.  Most importantly which of these folks has a history of accurate and fair reviews.  Which reviewers do you trust?

Think of "EUC influencers" as they were Phil in this video:

 

[houseofjob]

17 hours ago, CarlW said:

Please correct me if my perspective is wrong but EUC manufacturers and resellers appear to have decided a handful of social media "Influencers" is all they need to market and promote their new products.  I have no idea how these people are selected.  Are they the best riders, or do they just produce the most entertaining and watched videos and willing to serve as a crash test dummy on brand new models. 

Honestly, the "best riders" I've seen rarely ever do YouTube IMHO.

Like other guys have said, YouTube, especially the ones with most subs, are all about attracting eyeballs, not necessarily informing you of the best wheel for YOU (like how reality tv competitions are not really about finding the winner, more than they are about entertaining and drawing eyeballs). This is often done IMHO most through entertainment value, far more often than actual insightful information.

Unless they're buying the wheel they're talking about outright, there is ALWAYS the pressure to talk nice about said wheel (I've been susceptible to this myself when I was still at it). I know many of those YT guys don't touch those wheels afterwards. The REAL indicator to me is where people ACTUALLY spend their hard-earned cash money to BUY and RIDE said wheel, and if they end up keeping it. But that seldom ever gets posted as a YouTube video.

 

Also, in my six years of EUC, I've learned that if the reviewer does not ride like yourself, their opinions may be waaaaaay off from what you end up experiencing, and you might be hesitant to trust your own intuition experiencing said wheel because a certain reviewer claimed [this] or [that] about a wheel. 

Meaning there is no substitute for actually trying the wheel in question IMHO. (unless you know a YouTuber that rides Exactly like you do)

 

17 hours ago, CarlW said:

Most importantly which of these folks has a history of accurate and fair reviews.  Which reviewers do you trust?

For me, none of the YouTubers out there align with how I ride unfortunately, so I only go to them for the popular sentiment, but go to a handful of local non-YouTube riders I know for the real opinions I value and trust.

 

Since you are new to EUC, I would say just go buy the wheel you want to buy, as long as you realize the inherent issues (every wheel will have their own set of unique palatable or unpalatable issues) that come with it.

You don't really know what you want/need as a new rider, having no frame of reference, so getting your feet wet quickly into your first wheel is the fastest way to start to form that opinion IMHO. From there, you can narrow down your priorities. I realized 2 months in as a beginner, that my first ever wheel many moons ago was not the best fit for my priorities, and quickly sold it in favor of my second wheel.

 

Edited June 15, 2021 by houseofjob

[Unventor]

@houseofjob there are thee types of YouTubers. Viewers. Those that do their opinion and those that will do anything for an extra click.

That is why I miss your reviews from back when I started. They added value. Another YTer in the NYC area is one of the click lovers and due to that he doesn't get my time on YT. 

We might not share same views on rides and what we like. But still your reviews has been informative for me. You know this isn't the first time I said so.

[Unventor]

@CarlW your topic is a common one on any information you get. 

But I can put it this way. Each reviewer have a reason for why they did a review. The discount codes and similar that takes a lot of focus, means I loose interest very fast and I add a lot of salt and sugar to what is being said.

So the way I evaluate reviews that I in the spend time to view depends on how that reviewer hit a message on what I have chosen in the past. Also I view from many sources to see if someone give out a different message that others.

Anyone can do an unboxing. But those that add more to this and talk about other things are much more interesting. @Duf is a very good example. Now @Marty Backe did some great stuff too. But his rides are very different than mine and he favour a brand I have not felt interesting to me. That is not to say it works great for him. Also if you check some of the stuff from @mrelwood then he have some great stuff on wheels he worked on. Him and I seems to value many things similar yet we have different opinions at times. 

There is a great video out from UK reseller Speedyfeet. On what to consider for a first wheel. Now models might be different now but the idea is good on what to think about. 

Yet selecting a first wheel depends if you have to learn to ride or you are passed that or how to expect to use the wheel. Just keep in mind this is very likely to change and much faster than you anticipate.

Now a very short note on speed. Some find that very exciting. But it take a fair bit of time to build up a natural subconscious body reaction to surprises and in an emergency. For me that didn't come until around 2500-3000km of riding. Speed can be very dangerous unless your body is attuned to the wheel you ride. And you really need to understand how a wheel works for not putting yourself into bad situations. 

 

[DjPanJan]

On 6/15/2021 at 3:40 AM, CarlW said:

I came to this forum to learn more about selecting my first EUC.  YouTube reviews also played a major roll in my decision making.  There are always potential ulterior motives for whatever information is posted online.  Please correct me if my perspective is wrong but EUC manufacturers and resellers appear to have decided a handful of social media "Influencers" is all they need to market and promote their new products.  I have no idea how these people are selected.  Are they the best riders, or do they just produce the most entertaining and watched videos and willing to serve as a crash test dummy on brand new models.  Most importantly which of these folks has a history of accurate and fair reviews.  Which reviewers do you trust?

          

 

 

 

   

 

 

 

 

     

I can recomended : https://www.youtube.com/c/WrongWayYouTube/videos

He make acurate test with same metric incline test ETC one of best objective source what i know. 

EUC is personal choice every rider have  diferent scenarios and places where ride. All is about money and you expectation if you fall into hobby you propably be owning more euc in future like most people here.

If you not need ride in rain/water i recomended you KS16X (purchase on official seler please)is convivience king and i think this EUC you can ride thousands Km/miles and in future buy new euc when you overgrow KS16X.

This choice can save you money becasue speed, range ,trolley, lights all is great and is long time in production.

Becasue if you buy example V10F or something weaker you be very soon sad becasue power/range  be limit you soon.

Everything is about how and where you plan ride this is most important.     

[mrelwood]

The way I see it is that even honest and non-sponsored reviews of individual wheels are only useful if you are well familiar with the reviewer’s riding style, their preferences, and how they differ from your own.

A new rider looking at reviews on YT can very easily be distracted from the most crucial bits of info. For example, something that is brought up as either positive or negative can be a trait that is shared by practically all wheels.

 The method I’d recommend when buying the first wheel is this:

1: Narrow down the specs a bit. For example: If most comments/reviews say that the Mten3 is not suitable for long distance cruising and you plan to do just that, you know you can skip the Mten3. But don’t be strict (see point #5).

2: Compare, don’t get lured into individual selling points. Look for wheel comparisons, or reviews from people who have experience from more than one of the wheels in your list. Any single wheel is really easy to make look like the best thing in the world if the reviewer hasn’t even tried other wheels.

3: Create a new thread called “Which one for a beginner: 16X, 18XL, MSP, etc”. Tell us what you plan to use the wheel for, and take all responses with a grain of salt. One person saying that a wheel sucks isn’t worth much, but three is already valuable.

4: Don’t choose a wheel for it’s merits, choose based on it’s weaknesses. Every wheel has it’s quirks. Choose the one whose quirks you can live with. For example, a better trolley handle doesn’t mean much if you can’t use the wheel due to poor waterproofing.

5: Accept that your needs may change completely once you learn to ride and take the EUC into your daily life. When buying my third wheel, I was still completely blown away how it transformed what the EUC means for me and my life.

[CarlW]

Thanks everyone for your responses.  This post was more about the situation each new EUC enthusiast finds themselves in when making that first purchase and how challenging it can be to balance the opinions of a bunch of folks whose character and motives you have no clue about.  I personally have already made that decision with the help of this forum and review videos.  I hope the opinions I gave the most weight to when making my selection turn out to be the right ones for my needs.

After the rather confusing journey to make a decision, it seems like EUC consumers should have more hard facts and specifications for decision making and be  less reliant on opinions.  Why are these contraptions not being put through the rigors of some sort of third party testing lab.  Why are consumers stuck with finding the defects in engineering and quality control?  Could members of the EUC community work to lobby the manufacturers and resellers to encourage higher testing standards before releasing new models?  Personal experiences with specific models can be helpful when making a final selection but facts and figures create by strenuous testing would go much further in my opinion.  Instead of saying one model has more torque than some other model why not have it measured by what ever lab contraption does that sort of thing?  It would be nice if we could rely on manufacturers to provide those numbers but the trust factor with Chinese companies is not there.  It probably will never be there unless we demand more.  

 

[.....]

53 minutes ago, CarlW said:

Thanks everyone for your responses.  This post was more about the situation each new EUC enthusiast finds themselves in when making that first purchase and how challenging it can be to balance the opinions of a bunch of folks whose character and motives you have no clue about.  I personally have already made that decision with the help of this forum and review videos.  I hope the opinions I gave the most weight to when making my selection turn out to be the right ones for my needs.

After the rather confusing journey to make a decision, it seems like EUC consumers should have more hard facts and specifications for decision making and be  less reliant on opinions.  Why are these contraptions not being put through the rigors of some sort of third party testing lab.  Why are consumers stuck with finding the defects in engineering and quality control?  Could members of the EUC community work to lobby the manufacturers and resellers to encourage higher testing standards before releasing new models?  Personal experiences with specific models can be helpful when making a final selection but facts and figures create by strenuous testing would go much further in my opinion.  Instead of saying one model has more torque than some other model why not have it measured by what ever lab contraption does that sort of thing?  It would be nice if we could rely on manufacturers to provide those numbers but the trust factor with Chinese companies is not there.  It probably will never be there unless we demand more.  

 

What you are wanting is completely valid. I think the reason we dont see this kind of thing is simple. Testing costs time and money. Why would a bizz bother with QC and third party testing that costs money, when they can pump out sales and let the consumer pay for their own testing?

[Unventor]

@CarlW if you buy a car you have several places where you can read reviews and to drive it you must have a license (in most countries, maybe no in the US, joke aside let's move on). Also you have most brand and models you can test drive before making a decision or even be a passage and get an idea of the car. It is very hard to read specifications and just go by that as there is a feel to car you can't get from paper.

So EUC are very new business in comparison. So reseller are far apart and often not around the corner. As a new rider you might have seen these somewhere to awake your interest but some just stumble on them on the internet.

To have an idea how it feel to ride is very hard to explain. And it all comes down to opinion too. That is also why you see so many models compared to just one. 

The technology has advanced a lot in less than 10years. There are however some call signs on the direction new models are going forward. 

You will find a section on this forum where people have asked for advise prior to this topic. But to give truly good advise one have to know about about you and what you seek. And then comes the part most tend to forget. Get advise from your perspective, not what they would choose.

As an example I would never buy a Sherman ( many reasons but it does not suit me and I dislike the foundation of brand), yet other love it a lot. I would never buy a Inmotion V5f either (it is a wheel from the past to me).

But if you rate speed over anything else, Sherman is the only one more or less. As a first wheel, though a bad idea.

If you want a "super light" wheel for very last mile commute, the V5f can do that. But it is slow and range and safety margins suffer. 

I love my V11 wheels, yes I got two. One was not enough.

But as a first wheel I think it is not optimal. There are a few reasons behind that. Yet I thing it is one of the best all around wheels you can buy.

And then it comes down to money too. At some point it comes into play.

From your profile I can't tell if there are local riders around you. But group rides are a great place to learn about other wheels. But it often come as a 2nd stage in a new lifestyle you are about to embark on.

Now it would be interesting to know what you picked and why. And even more what you expect before you get to ride it.

[.....]

 

5 hours ago, Unventor said:

I love my V11 wheels, yes I got two. One was not enough.

 

A truly GREAT wheel, you wouldnt need two. But yeah, if its a V11, you should probably get a third, just in case... 

j/k, I have ZERO clue about the v11, I've never ridden one. I did own two of the same wheel once as a spare. I quickly realized a reliable wheel needs no spare, you're just letting batteries die a slow death. The rest of your post was on point, but its just more fun to snag a single line and prod you about it...

[Unventor]

3 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said:

 

A truly GREAT wheel, you wouldnt need two. But yeah, if its a V11, you should probably get a third, just in case... 

j/k, I have ZERO clue about the v11, I've never ridden one. I did own two of the same wheel once as a spare. I quickly realized a reliable wheel needs no spare, you're just letting batteries die a slow death. The rest of your post was on point, but its just more fun to snag a single line and prod you about it...

Np. But there is a meaning to the crazyness. And should you test a V11 and ride it for a week, there is a high risk your wallet will suffer too and you have 1 less parking space free at home😏

In my area the 2 distinct seasons winter and summer. It take a "bit" of time and work to change tire. And when something goes wrong I don't have fast access to spare parts. In my opinion I adapted to the V11 so much that when I swapped back to an KS16X while waiting for a new battery it put me in a dangerous situation because I didn't have suspension. So instead of buy extra spare part upfront I jumped a discount sale and got an extra wheel instead.it later turned out I broke a connector and needed more spare parts. To me the ride without a wait no matter for service or weather is much more important than the money. Nope I am not rich but I found riding so beneficial for my overall well being and quality of daily life that I will go very far to enjoy riding. 

To swing it back to the topic it just shows that where you start you can't imagine how far this EUC thing take you not only from Auto B but on so many levels. I started on a V8, because is was cheap but expensive enough to not give up. 1 1/2 month later I did an upgrade. I wanted more range and a little more speed. Now I have had 6 wheels still have 4 where 2 of the are my main rides the other serve as backup in different situatios where the V11 do not fit or when I need a wheel that can take a beating for my leaning to ride backward just as an example.

As a new ride and learning to ride get a different wheel first. Make your leaning curve easier.

[CarlW]

6 hours ago, Unventor said:

Now it would be interesting to know what you picked and why. And even more what you expect before you get to ride it.

I ended up choosing a King Song 16X that is hopefully in the middle of the Pacific Ocean at the moment heading this way.  In the beginning I was leaning towards a suspension wheel, but felt both fairly new designs needed further refinement.  Just the history of new introductions having problems made going with an older model that has hopefully had most of the bugs worked out seemed like the better gamble since reliability and longevity are high on my list.  I can not predict my exact riding style, but I am not inclined towards street racing or skate park stuff.  Probably trail riding and exploring new areas.  Being in the piedmont I knew hill climbing and torque were an important necessity.

I would say the cool running temperature of the KS 16X on overheat hill, and ability to climb 40 degrees on the Wrong Way review were influential.  ShanesPlanet was my best resource from this forum and the only person I have run across riding in my state.  

[Unventor]

Haha  so you are in for it now.  With @ShanesPlanet as reference point what can possibly go wrong?

 

 

 

 

joking....I know that wheel too and I think it is a good balance between learning and being useful too. 

[Scottie]

10 hours ago, Unventor said:

To me the ride without a wait no matter for service or weather is much more important than the money. Nope I am not rich but I found riding so beneficial for my overall well being and quality of daily life that I will go very far to enjoy riding.

I feel that Wheel Brother!    I am going to pile on, and say ... "Me too!"

 

2 hours ago, CarlW said:

I ended up choosing a King Song 16X ..... reliability and longevity are high on my list.  ..... I knew hill climbing and torque were an important necessity.

I would say the cool running temperature of the KS 16X on overheat hill, and ability to climb 40 degrees on the Wrong Way review were influential.  ShanesPlanet was my best resource from this forum and the only person I have run across riding in my state.  

The 16X seems to be a strong favorite on the forum for a 1st wheel. I went that way and have not regretted it after a year and a half; it is still a favorite. And the better I learn to ride as the months go by, the wheel keeps showing me more capability. I am about 240 lbs (109 Kilos) and it handles me effortlessly.

I am not the only one here that is a 16X fan. Check this guy out. His was tested by being run over by a bus, and the 16X came back for more!

 

[lioku]

2 hours ago, CarlW said:

I ended up choosing a King Song 16X

You're gonna love it. I've got almost 5k miles on mine over ~2 years, and it's still my favorite out of all the wheels I've tried. It's not the fastest, but it's one of the most versatile, and will take you father than faster wheels with equivalent Wh battery packs. It's also the nimblest 16x3 wheel that I've tried.