EUC Dilemma

[Guest]

It is believable. You have to accept both: the one who is overdressed is respected, he does not bother anyone; and those who want to ride naked are also respected (no photo without a suitable outfit, no ) but rarer today for several reasons. All the reasons cannot fit on a post, it is like that on all the forums, here it is very well done.

[WI_Hedgehog]

The electronics in electric mobility devices (powered chairs) have a limited lifespan. They're made of quality components, not the cheapest bin parts in the Chinese electronics open market that day, yet they will fail. EUCs basically use a simplified version of those electronics with no error detection/correction code, and no backup circuitry, so if a sensor fails random things happen. (A mis-calibrated sensor resulted in tearing up my left knee and 9 months of rehab.)

Electronics do fail. Electrolytic capacitors and heat sink compound dries out (there are people who re-cap amplifiers before bad caps take out the amplifier transistors). Copper flexes and work hardens becoming brittle (and EUCs use very thin wires). Cooling fans fail. Batteries age and fail. Solder suffers heat stress and fails.

And if course, the unexpected happens even more frequently (check out the many misadventures of @Rehab1).

It is a matter of when, not if, you'll go down. I noticed in most Chinese wheel videos they don't wear safety gear and only ride half as fast as they can run. @Kuji Rolls, like many EUC bloggers and members here, didn't wear safety gear until he had a decent send-off, and like others now wears gear religiously, and keeps upgrading gear as he finds better stuff for his style.

I've come off a few times and ran it out. @ShanesPlanet is the master of ignoring physics and running it off, although his watch doesn't have his luck.

It seems the risk is perceived as low, but the risk over time is significant, and the risk of catastrophic loss (major surgery) is low but tangible. Think about loosening your pedal bolts until they'll detach at some random point and ride around like that, or better yet ME loosening your bolts or pins or doing something random, something completely outside the box, because that's basically the risk we're all taking. 

Edited April 25, 2021 by WI_Hedgehog

[Planemo]

31 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

 Its almost like each year we get a little more worried and a little less willing to roll the dice.

Thats exactly it for me tbh. I was exactly the same as you when younger. No gear, rode like a hooligan.

The difference now is that I have a family to support and, crucially, I know for a fact that I will not bounce like I used to. I hate gear, but for me its a necessary evil at my age and with my responsibilities. I still want to ride naked one day though...

[WI_Hedgehog]

We're all naked under our clothing... 

I'm pretty sure @ShanesPlanet rides without underwear, something has to be giving him super-human speed and confidence. 

We should be more worried every year, EUCs keep being able to go faster/farther. The farther we ride the more chance of distraction (goats, in one member's video) and fatigue. 

Wearing gear is like having life insurance: You're still going to die, but the risk of catastrophic loss is minimized. 

[.....]

1 hour ago, varamontelo said:

It is believable. You have to accept both: the one who is overdressed is respected, he does not bother anyone; and those who want to ride naked are also respected (no photo without a suitable outfit, no ) but rarer today for several reasons. All the reasons cannot fit on a post, it is like that on all the forums, here it is very well done.

I must admit, THIS forum group of people is both diverse and eerily easy to get along with. Its refreshing for me at least, to hear so many opinions and points of view, yet most members here seem to not get too riled up. Amazing how we can all talk back and forth from distances across the globe and of different ages and sexes, yet this place remains fairly civil and enjoyable. Frankly I just can't figure out how this happens, but am glad it is..

56 minutes ago, Planemo said:

Thats exactly it for me tbh. I was exactly the same as you when younger. No gear, rode like a hooligan.

The difference now is that I have a family to support and, crucially, I know for a fact that I will not bounce like I used to. I hate gear, but for me its a necessary evil at my age and with my responsibilities. I still want to ride naked one day though...

Growing up is a b**ch. It's ironic to hear that 40's is considered young, as I assumed I wouldnt even make it this long. Your reasoning is perfectly valid and understandable. You didnt even mention how sometimes balance and muscle tone tend to drift as we age as well. My wife and I both notice we don't bounce like we used to, tho I try to ignore it and fight the reality. I find it funny that HER worst injury in the last 10 years, was falling in the tub shaving. Such a wonderful gift of 'old lady' jokes hasn't ended since. Its taking a LOT longer for me to heal now, than it used to. I got ran over by my sherm (at least the mten asks to dance, the sherm just runs a mofo down) and a baby bs bruise undermined my entire leg and took 2 weeks to go away. This was something that would have taken 2 days...20 years ago. So yup, the stakes are definitely going up. In the end, it does only take one BAD accident to end a hobby. Those that gear up, are minimizing the odds at a minor cost of enjoyment. Those that ride the razors edge, are risking big but enjoying big. I guess half the fun is in deciding what level of risk and payment you're willing to take today. Equipment failure is like a wildcard. Stack the deck all you want, but you never know when the joker is gna appear...

 

Whats your take on all/any of this @andrew900nyc? Are you still in a gambling mood or have you decided the payout isnt worth the invest? You do know that you can also just ride an euc for slow and easy fun. Maybe the days of going 15mph+ are coming to an end, but that doesnt mean you cant dive into the enjoyable world of crwling around on an euc. Theres a peaceful joy to be had when you hop on an mten type wheel with intentions of merely putting around and taking in the sights. That is of course, if you can keep yourself from leaning into the wind until you hear beeps...

Edited April 25, 2021 by ShanesPlanet

[winterwheel]

I've been riding largely without gear for five years. I ride big wheels and I like speed but I don't push wheels into their red zone. Hasn't been a problem. I'm not anti-gear, wear whatever gets you up on the wheel. I do what works for me.

Edited April 25, 2021 by winterwheel

[andrew900nyc]

Wow, thanks for the information/suggestions on the motorcycle protective gear, @Planemo (and others who recommended it). That seems like the way to go, at least on cooler days when you'd want to wear a jacket anyway.

@ShanesPlanet, regarding my plans, here's where I'm at:

For the time being, I will be riding sans any protection. The main reason is because I have a storage facility packed from floor to ceiling and my protective gear is buried somewhere in there and I probable won't have the inclination to empty my storage space to find it until my apartment is painted and I can move stuff back to my place. My landlord is obligated to paint my apartment, but unfortunately this is NYC and many of the landlords earn their horrible reputation, so I have to keep pestering them and hopefully they'll get around to it eventually.

Once I've retrieved my gear, I'd like to think that the intelligent/rational/reasonable part of my brain will compel me to at least wear a lid most of the time when riding. However, I'm not 100% sure that the intelligent/rational/reasonable part of my brain will win out, as I have been known to be an impulsive, knucklehead at times, or perhaps just a bit "too freedom loving." As a youngster, I launched my hang glider at locations and in conditions that were not appropriate and nearly paid the ultimate price. I've also had close calls flying airplanes, gyroplanes and helicopters. During my cross-country solo for my fixed-wing SEL rating I inadvertently wound up in a cloud, which resulted in a white out (complete loss of visibility). With only three hours of hood training and in a shear panic, I made nearly all the classic mistakes and when I finally referenced the gauges and saw that my airspeed had surpassed Vne (I never closed the throttle, so I had gravity + 220 HP engine pulling me down) and my artificial horizon indicated that my wings were not level, I realized that I was in a graveyard spiral. Prior to referencing the gauges, I started to jerk the yoke in the wrong direction because I felt like I was in a right turn, but I froze my hands after moving the yoke only about an inch or so because I heard my instructor's voice in my head telling me that "you cannot depend on what your instincts are telling you. You must rely solely on your instruments." And so at that moment, I referenced my gauges which were spinning our of control. First I found my airspeed indicator which was moving beyond the red (Vne) passing 160 knts, so based on that and the sound of the wind, I knew I was in a dive. My initial instinct was to pull out of the dive by pulling back on the yoke, but I once again heard my instructor's voice telling me that you cannot attempt to recover from the dive until you level your wings or you will put yourself in an unrecoverable situation. So then I found my artificial horizon and to my surprise it indicated that I was turning in the opposite direction that my body was telling me - I was in a left turn and had to turn the yoke to the right - the compete opposite of what I was about to do (which had I continued would also have sealed my fate by putting me in an unrecoverable situation). Thankfully I made it home that day. I don't attribute my survival to skill. I think I was just one lucky SOB. So I do know something about risks and consequences. However, at least when flying an FAA type-certified aircraft, there are stringent safety and maintenance requirements that must be met in order for the aircraft to be certified. And of course all pilots are taught to do a thorough pre-flight inspection and many other safety procedures. When doing a maximum performance (vertical) take-off in a helicopter and intentionally entering the dead man's zone (the cross-hatched portion of the height-velocity curve in the POH), we are taught to do a mag check first. The disconcerting aspects of exposing yourself to risk with an EUC are: (1) no redundancy. (2) no real effort to make these wheels as safe as possible, but probably rather just the intention to make them as safe as possible without exceeding a certain reasonable cost. (3) no practical way to do a "pre-ride inspection" to make sure there aren't any obvious potential issues on the inside, (4) No agency or organization requiring any minimum safety standards, testing, etc. For all these reasons, it seems to make sense to wear some safety gear. So given this analysis, will I wear safety gear? To answer honestly, all I can say is that I hope so... at least some of the time (once I find my gear).

Edited April 25, 2021 by andrew900nyc

[PLEASE_DELETE]

Deleted.

Edited March 18 by PLEASE_DELETE

[mrelwood]

12 hours ago, andrew900nyc said:

However, at least when flying an FAA type-certified aircraft, there are stringent safety and maintenance requirements that must be met in order for the aircraft to be certified. And of course all pilots are taught to do a thorough pre-flight inspection and many other safety procedures.

And, as you so clearly described the usefulness of, a flight school. There aren’t driving schools for EUCs. If one hasn’t specifically rehearsed how to kill a bad wobble from going past the point of no return, one can crash from a wobble in a very sudden situation. Not having had wobbles for thousands of miles doesn’t guarantee anything, just like what happened to Marty Backe. And me too, for that matter.

[andrew900nyc]

26 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

There aren’t driving schools for EUCs. If one hasn’t specifically rehearsed how to kill a bad wobble from going past the point of no return, one can crash from a wobble in a very sudden situation. Not having had wobbles for thousands of miles doesn’t guarantee anything, just like what happened to Marty Backe. And me too, for that matter.

Interesting and valid point. Thanks for alerting me to the dangers of a wobble rearing its ugly head! If there are any posts on this site describing the wobble incidents you and/or Marty encountered that you can direct me to, I sure would appreciate it. If it's not something you have bookmarked or can find very quickly, no sweat... I can always use the search. I'm usually not going super fast, so any relatively minor to moderate wobbles I've had were resolved by accelerating or leaning into a gentle turn while pressing against the wheel with the inside of my higher leg, but I'd like to read about these wobbles and the recommended recovery techniques. For certain helicopter maneuvers (such as low G's on a two-bladed chopper), practicing how to recover killed so many instructors and student pilots that they stopped practical instruction on recovery and focus much more on training you to never get into the situation. I wonder if there are any riding techniques that can help reduce the chance of getting into a wobble?

[.....]

56 minutes ago, andrew900nyc said:

I I wonder if there are any riding techniques that can help reduce the chance of getting into a wobble?

So far the only cure I've found, is to simply go slower. FInd your comfortable speed and go slower than that. I know it sounds like Im being a smartass, but it's just how I see it. On any given riding day, I only experience wobbles when I'm either going quickly, or simply going near the speed of my ability. MAYBE I wobble more often than I realize, its just that we tend to ignore the minor ones and chalk it up to wheel tracking. Wheel mainenance, road conditions and rider skill. Mitigating and managing these conditions are how you stay 'safer'. Fwiw, the method that you fight wobbles, is also the method I employ. Minor changes in direction and/or speed, are how I cope with wobble. I am CERTAIN that my riding style is going to show me what its like to lose during a high speed wobble. HOw I know this is simply because I take unneccesary risks above my skill level and I enjoy speed. Many MANY riders have had VERY long riding carrers that don't include major injury. You are looking for safeguards and safety standards in the euc world, that don't exist. THe only REAL safety standard is YOU and how you choose to approach the ride. Keep it nice and slow, keep your balance centered, keep away from people and traffic, stay within your skill level and keep the wheel maintained. IN the end, its the same philosophies in most dangerous activities, including flying. The only thing missing is the redundancy and established methods. Find a method, establish it and prepare for what you know may happen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_Nv1ekfjrk  -Marty Wobble

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_h3Fkyoi6t8 - U-Stride Wobble

BOTH good riders. Slightly different ride styles...

Edited April 26, 2021 by ShanesPlanet

[mrelwood]

1 hour ago, andrew900nyc said:

wobbles I've had were resolved by accelerating or leaning into a gentle turn while pressing against the wheel with the inside of my higher leg

AFAIK that actually is the most effective technique to kill a wobble. That wouldn’t be an issue for you then!

I haven’t written about my wobble-crash more than a few mentions. @ShanesPlanet already linked to Marty’s wobble.

[Tasku]

You should wear gear, but everyone has to come to that idea by themselves.

The first time you crash you usually pick up the idea (that you are fragile and not build to the speed you can now travel, you should protect yourself to stay safe and healthy). And the first bruise you get will make you understand that even you control a lot, you will not control everything around you. You can only prepare and make bad events minimal change, but it will stay there. 

Murphy's law: Anything that can go wrong will go wrong

Accidents can and will happen. Changes are low but the more people are out there the more likely is that someone will get hurt. It is not your fault when something you do not control happens. Like a deer running over the road or other bicycler falling down and then crashing into you. My point is, wear the gear because you will not control everything.

I noticed people talking about the wobble. The wobble is interesting effect. It pretty much only happens when you want the wheel to go straight, yet that is not quite how it wants to behave 

TIPS:? Slight turn and lil lean on wheel will help to keep wobble away or make it go away. Also stance such as "offset" can help to make you avoid wobbling.

Here is a very short video, and if it peaks your interest I will link another longer video. 

 

It is your choice how you protect yourself. Lucky there are many solutions now.
 

The later video is long, you could pick it up from 21.00 to see your wheel and physics in action.

or 35.00 to see the wheel in action. 

Edited April 26, 2021 by Tasku
Non of this is intuitive.

[GoGeorgeGo]

3 hours ago, andrew900nyc said:

Interesting and valid point. Thanks for alerting me to the dangers of a wobble rearing its ugly head! If there are any posts on this site describing the wobble incidents you and/or Marty encountered that you can direct me to, I sure would appreciate it. If it's not something you have bookmarked or can find very quickly, no sweat... I can always use the search. I'm usually not going super fast, so any relatively minor to moderate wobbles I've had were resolved by accelerating or leaning into a gentle turn while pressing against the wheel with the inside of my higher leg, but I'd like to read about these wobbles and the recommended recovery techniques. For certain helicopter maneuvers (such as low G's on a two-bladed chopper), practicing how to recover killed so many instructors and student pilots that they stopped practical instruction on recovery and focus much more on training you to never get into the situation. I wonder if there are any riding techniques that can help reduce the chance of getting into a wobble?

Imo, practicing really slow speed stability is key to preventing wobbles. Practice staying in a 2' x 2' square, going as slow as possible between 2 points, sharp body style turns. Go hit some really.hard technical offroad trails routinely. Work out your calves, feet, and ankles.  Strength and endurance are the keys to killing wobbles. Weak ankles and tired feet are going to get you into trouble. If your feeling tired, take it easy on the wheel.

This is why begginers and people who get new wheels tend to get bad wobbles for the first couple miles. They need to retrain and redevelop different muscles than they are used to using. New riders tend to struggle longer since its all new muscle development for them. Riders switching wheels usually just need to "recalibrate" their muscles to produce slightly different movements which doesn't take as long as building muscle from the ground up.

[VikB]

I don't have enough experience to answer the question, but I am asking a similar question....what is my all in risk for crashing on an EUC riding for transportation at moderate speeds [say under 35kph]? No trick riding. No showing off. Just cruising. EUC safety stats don't exist so you are left with anecdotes. As I am reading about EUCs and watching YT videos I mentally catalogue all the crashes I see that reflect riding that I would likely be doing and I'm getting a sense of what's realistic. For something that happens infrequently and that's poorly documented all you can hope for is a general comparative feeling of it's more risky than activity X and less risky than activity Y. Using  activities that you understand pretty well [say riding a bicycle and riding a motorcycle] and can use as brackets.

I haven't arrived at a conclusion for myself as I am new and still figuring things out. I do agree with you in some respects about safety gear and usage of the EUC. If I had to go full face + robocop armour for every ride to be reasonably safe than an EUC is likely not going to be used much for myself. I don't mind wearing the extra gear for a sport ride or a stunt ride where I am planning on higher speeds or riding stairs, etc...

One thing I already do know is that riding slower will mean less chance of crashing and less damage if you do crash. So your first line of defence if you want to ride without a lot of safety gear should be slowing down. With a bicycle half-shell and MTB gloves as my only gear I want to be riding 20-30kph regularly with bursts to 35kph. I think the damage from coming off the wheel at over 35kph without armour concerns me too much to want to do that. So I'd either ride slower or start armouring up. The other way you can make yourself safer is to choose your routes carefully. The better the route choice and the better you know the route the less likely something will happen.

Finally I'd just be careful focusing on mechanical/electrical fault wheel cut outs and assuming you got everything else. I've seen enough videos of experienced riders cruising at reasonable speeds hitting some unexpected pothole/debris they didn't see or car/bike/motorcycle/truck that they couldn't react to fast enough and hitting the deck hard to not assume somehow that's not going to happen to me.

Mike S on YT and his family go pretty light on the safety gear and ride EUCs a lot for transportation. He might be willing to chat with you about his thoughts on the matter? He may also have a video about it although I didn't see one when I scanned his channel briefly.

FWIW - I'm not endorsing either end of the safety gear argument. I'll never be ATGATT and I'll never ride my EUC in a mankini and flip flops! 

 

 

 

Edited April 26, 2021 by VikB

[winterwheel]

I teach many people to ride, I never encourage them to come to this forum because of the endless, overly alarmist, mother hen perspective on safety.

[mrelwood]

4 minutes ago, VikB said:

what is my all in risk for crashing on an EUC riding for transportation at moderate speeds [say under 35kph]?

More than what kind of riding you do, or even the speeds you ride at, this depends on one’s personal risk factor. One local guy doesn’t ride very fast, and doesn’t do tricks or off-road, yet he has had a bad crash something like every 500km.

I ride quite fast every now and then, quite a lot off-road, yet I’ve only crashed once per about 10000km in a way that I’ve felt the crash still two days later. And not a single time as badly as he did.

 So his risk level for crashing is way more than 20 times higher than mine. An average for all riders could be somewhere in the middle, like once per 5000km. Of course depending on whether you count a run-off tumble as one, etc.

We are probably still a long time away from any real statistics. 

[GoGeorgeGo]

26 minutes ago, VikB said:

I don't have enough experience to answer the question, but I am asking a similar question....what is my all in risk for crashing on an EUC riding for transportation at moderate speeds [say under 35kph]? No trick riding. No showing off. Just cruising. EUC safety stats don't exist so you are left with anecdotes. As I am reading about EUCs and watching YT videos I mentally catalogue all the crashes I see that reflect riding that I would likely be doing and I'm getting a sense of what's realistic. For something that happens infrequently and that's poorly documented all you can hope for is a general comparative feeling of it's more risky than activity X and less risky than activity Y. Using  activities that you understand pretty well [say riding a bicycle and riding a motorcycle] and can use as brackets.

I haven't arrived at a conclusion for myself as I am new and still figuring things out. I do agree with you in some respects about safety gear and usage of the EUC. If I had to go full face + robocop armour for every ride to be reasonably safe than an EUC is likely not going to be used much for myself. I don't mind wearing the extra gear for a sport ride or a stunt ride where I am planning on higher speeds or riding stairs, etc...

One thing I already do know is that riding slower will mean less chance of crashing and less damage if you do crash. So your first line of defence if you want to ride without a lot of safety gear should be slowing down. With a bicycle half-shell and MTB gloves as my only gear I want to be riding 20-30kph regularly with bursts to 35kph. I think the damage from coming off the wheel at over 35kph without armour concerns me too much to want to do that. So I'd either ride slower or start armouring up. The other way you can make yourself safer is to choose your routes carefully. The better the route choice and the better you know the route the less likely something will happen.

Finally I'd just be careful focusing on mechanical/electrical fault wheel cut outs and assuming you got everything else. I've seen enough videos of experienced riders cruising at reasonable speeds hitting some unexpected pothole/debris they didn't see or car/bike/motorcycle/truck that they couldn't react to fast enough and hitting the deck hard to not assume somehow that's not going to happen to me.

Mike S on YT and his family go pretty light on the safety gear and ride EUCs a lot for transportation. He might be willing to chat with you about his thoughts on the matter? He may also have a video about it although I didn't see one when I scanned his channel briefly.

FWIW - I'm not endorsing either end of the safety gear argument. I'll never be ATGATT and I'll never ride my EUC in a mankini and flip flops! 

 

 

 

I would disagree with your idea that riding slower means less likely to crash. 100% of my crashes have been as slow speeds (under 20 mph). If anything when traveling at higher speed you are hyper focused and have a baseline trust that your machine is safe to ride at that speed and presumably are in fairly ideal conditions for attaining that speed in a safe way. Mechanical failure accounts for a tiny fraction of accidents. Even overleans probably account for less than 10% of crashes.

The two biggest risk factors for a crash are pedal clipping, and loss of traction. Be it coming over lose gravel, mud, wet grass, sand, ice, wet painted asphalt, marble surfaces. The loss of traction between your tire and the ground is easily the number one cause for a crash. Generally when approaching these surfaces you are not going full tilt, but slipping out happens so fast and can be pretty unexpected. And then clipping your pedal is an easy second place on reasons you may fall. Whether your not paying attention because your traveling slow and fiddling with your phone, or your trying to squeeze through a narrow gap, or your offroading and catch a rock you misjudged the height of. Pedal clips spin the machine out from under you and are highly likely to land you on the ground. Even trying to carve or turn to sharply can result in a pedal clip with the ground which is just as potentially damaging. 

Third place i would guess is a close call between overleans, wobbles, and outside forces, meaning pedestrians, other riders, dogs, cars, etc bumping you or running you off your path. Overleans and wobble crashes do tend to happen at speed, but are due to a lack of experience/skill and can be controlled by you the rider. Outside forces are out of your control and can happen at any time or any speed. 

Mechanical failures at speed are realistically extremely rare.

Edited April 26, 2021 by GoGeorgeGo

[VikB]

7 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

More than what kind of riding you do, or even the speeds you ride at, this depends on one’s personal risk factor. One local guy doesn’t ride very fast, and doesn’t do tricks or off-road, yet he has had a bad crash something like every 500km.

We are probably still a long time away from any real statistics. 

People have to assess risks within their own context. I know people that crash their bicycles 5-10x more than I do. So if I was assessing my bicycle riding risk I'd take that into account. Not only in terms of how likely you are to crash in the first place, but also how badly you are likely to get hurt if you do crash. We do this intuitively every day.

I agree I doubt we'll get EUC safety statistics in this decade. They'd need to generate enough interest from the academic/government safety communities for someone to expend the effort to generate those statistics and that just doesn't seem likely.

[Tawpie]

"You don't need a helmet if you have concrete for brains"

That was a billboard from back in the day when they were trying to legislate helmets for motorcycles. (to me) it's on point and cute.

Maybe. just maybe, we can avoid legislative intrusion into our hobby by doing the one thing that many now consider de rigor if you're going to be on wheels: at least wear a helmet. The rest is up to your tolerance for pain and sorrow, but the helmet thing checks a big box in the public's perception of "safety". If you live in an area where EUCs aren't absolutely legal, I would guess it gives a law enforcement officer one less reason to hassle you as well. The nanny state is real, and I'd prefer not to have her any more interested in what I do than she already is.

[VikB]

11 minutes ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

I would disagree with your idea that riding slower means less likely to crash. 100% of my crashes have been as slow speeds (under 20 mph). If anything when traveling at higher speed you are hyper focused and have a baseline trust that your machine is safe to ride at that speed and presumably are in fairly ideal conditions for attaining that speed in a safe way. Mechanical failure accounts for a tiny fraction of accidents. Even overleans probably account for less than 10% of crashes.

The fact you crashed more at slower speeds doesn't mean riding slower isn't safer than riding faster. Most car accidents are at slower speeds as well. That's not an argument that we should all drive faster to be safer. It's just a statistical result of the distribution of time people spend at different speeds and how they react to adverse conditions....often by slowing down.

 

[GoGeorgeGo]

5 minutes ago, VikB said:

The fact you crashed more at slower speeds doesn't mean riding slower isn't safer than riding faster. Most car accidents are at slower speeds as well. That's not an argument that we should all drive faster to be safer. It's just a statistical result of the distribution of time people spend at different speeds and how they react to adverse conditions....often by slowing down.

 

I certainly never said riding faster is safer lol. Basic physics disproves that idea. Im simply pointing out that traveling at slow speeds does not inherently make you less likely to have an accident. 

Basing my opinions on my friends and myself, i have seen at least 50+ crashes. Only 1 was at high speed and it was an overlean by an inexperienced rider cutting out his MSP

Edited April 26, 2021 by GoGeorgeGo

[Tasku]

43 minutes ago, VikB said:

what is my all in risk for crashing on an EUC riding for transportation at moderate speeds

Your risks would be similar to riding a bicycle. Bent your knee and you got suspension.

43 minutes ago, VikB said:

If I had to go full face + robocop armour for every ride to be reasonably safe than an EUC is likely not going to be used much for myself.

So people with those rentable electric kick scooters are now falling down and if they hit theyr head in 25km/h things can go badly. BUT the most likely injury would be bruise and scratches. That IF - is something that makes insurance companies thrive. Very unlikely event we talking, yet it happens to some.

----------

If you ride smart you can trust the device.
Few things to point out: 

Everytime you power your device - some checks take place or it would not work - make sure it performs normally.
If there is any weird sound or rambling - the wheel should be inspected.
A crash should worry you to get wheel inspected.

--

Staying in your home indoors is prolly more dangerous than riding EUC if you wanna watch the statistics. Getting injury while cooking is way more likely! 

Edited April 26, 2021 by Tasku

[null]

4 hours ago, Tasku said:

Here is a very short video, and if it peaks your interest I will link another longer video. 

Considering the RPMs of a EUC motor and the other forces involved I suspect the gyroscopic effect doesn't enter much into the picture.
Should be possible to calculate for someone with the proper knowledge.

Edited April 26, 2021 by null

[.....]

33 minutes ago, winterwheel said:

I teach many people to ride, I never encourage them to come to this forum because of the endless, overly alarmist, mother hen perspective on safety.

You're more than welcome to direct people to my videos to show them the OTHER end of the safety spectrum. Call them a 'how not to'