Kingsong S20/S22 (Confirmed)

[Rolzi]

1 hour ago, mrelwood said:

 

There are discharge charts like this available from most cells, but the end result is the same on all of them:

I had this one open the whole time i wrote these posts, I believe these are the exact cells used in S20: 

1 hour ago, mrelwood said:

1) The 5 amp graph reaches 3.15V after 3900mAh, and the 5000mAh rating is almost reached at 2.5V, after 4932mAh. That's 21% missing from the announced. 46% missing at 10A. These are amp-hours though, and the missing capacity is a bit smaller in percentage when expressed in Wh (because P(W) = U(V) * I(A), and the voltage is lower at the end of the discharge).

Does not change the fact that the same 21% or 46% (temperature is here somewhere here also) is going to be missing regardless of wheel that uses the same cells or even comparable cells. The amperage is determined by the speed, terrain, height and weight. still makes the earlier Wh/km comparisons viable.

1 hour ago, mrelwood said:

But again, this is only relevant when trying to compare calculations from the announced capacity or consumption figures to ones measured by the wheel or an app.

I still maintain that calculating Wh/km from the tested cell capacity, average riding speed and time is good enough to determine if the wheel is somehow sucking energy to some black hole.

I still see it everywhere that people are disappointed in the range of this wheel, even though the range tests have been consistently on par with the Wh/km amount.

Maybe it just shows how much people are waiting this wheel and setting unreasonable expectations.

Maybe there is something about this wheel that makes it easier to achieve higher avg speeds...

Still I am perplexed how people who "should know better" are still disappointed. 

1 hour ago, mrelwood said:

The cell will happily go down to 0V if the discharge is not stopped.

I though there was actually some kind of mechanism per cell that actually stopped the flow of current at 2.5v. Shows what I know having read almost all this up in the last couple of days.

I have been thinking too much about the S20 lately.

I might just need a break from thinking about this wheel.

Edited February 25, 2022 by Rolzi

[Forwardnbak]

Everyone on this thread knows a lot of stuff.

just wanted to contribute. 
 

 

 

[supercurio]

9 hours ago, supercurio said:

And another range test!

Funny how everyone wanted to wheelie just like the EUC 

TLDW / Spoiler:

45.3 miles - 73km
Average Riding: 19 mph

A little bit of everything in the ride which I liked.

And Andrew was kind enough to share the EUC World tour upon request:
Let's discuss!

https://euc.world/tour/607149346042072

[UniVehje]

4 minutes ago, supercurio said:

And Andrew was kind enough to share the EUC World tour upon request:
Let's discuss!

https://euc.world/tour/607149346042072

Here are two of my bet mileages with my old 18XL. Notice the batter is not completely empty. On the 106 km ride on one charge I got to the destination before tailback. I could ride at around 20 km/h for the last few kilometres. I didn't test how much more was left. The ride was confirmed by GPS to be 101 kilometres. Average speed was also not that bad. I had a 10 kg backpack on me also. 

So far s20 range doesn't seem to be that good. 

[EMA]

52 minutes ago, supercurio said:

And Andrew was kind enough to share the EUC World tour upon request:
Let's discuss!

https://euc.world/tour/607149346042072

range is absolutely normal to me if you consider a 28,7 km/hAVG RIDING on a 2200wh battery

[mrelwood]

 

5 hours ago, Rolzi said:

Does not change the fact that the same 21% or 46% (temperature is here somewhere here also) is going to be missing regardless of wheel that uses the same cells or even comparable cells.

Oh, absolutely! I was probably trying to refer to a different part of the original comment or something.

 

5 hours ago, Rolzi said:

I still maintain that calculating Wh/km from the tested cell capacity, average riding speed and time is good enough to determine if the wheel is somehow sucking energy to some black hole.

It probably is, as long as you use the real life capacity value instead of the announced one.

 

5 hours ago, Rolzi said:

Maybe it just shows how much people are waiting this wheel and setting unreasonable expectations.

Of that I am sure of! Somehow they managed to get quite a buzz going. I guess it helped quite a bit that Inmotion didn’t hurry to the same train.

 

5 hours ago, Rolzi said:

I though there was actually some kind of mechanism per cell that actually stopped the flow of current at 2.5v. Shows what I know having read almost all this up in the last couple of days.

It’s referred to as a cutoff voltage since it’s the voltage where the electronics of the device itself should cut off all battery usage.

 

5 hours ago, Rolzi said:

I have been thinking too much about the S20 lately.

I might just need a break from thinking about this wheel.

[Grimm10]

Man oh man...I just hope this euc is released VERY SOON!  Everybody is picking this euc apart without ever having seen or ridden one...lots of speculation and he said she said.  No, it won't be perfect and it won't be someone's choice for riding, but for many others, it will.  Kingsong is doing a great job listening and improving the design on the fly.  No way any auto or motorcycle manufacturer would respond the way Kingsong has.  

Thank you Kingsong.  

 

Edited February 25, 2022 by Grimm10

[Miko.cz]

7 minutes ago, Grimm10 said:

...Everybody...

errr, I protest! photo .
But yes, I think that KingSong opened new chapter when communicating with community, distributors and even testing wheeeeels. Thanks for this!

Edited February 25, 2022 by Miko.cz

[enaon]

1 hour ago, mrelwood said:

I guess it helped quite a bit that Inmotion didn’t hurry to the same train

I do not think inmotion could do anything more to help the S20. 
 

[Grimm10]

17 minutes ago, enaon said:

I do not think inmotion could do anything more to help the S20. 
 

They helped me switch to the S20. 

[GoGeorgeGo]

12 minutes ago, enaon said:

I do not think inmotion could do anything more to help the S20. 
 

Inmotion needs to hit an absolute home run with their next wheel for sure. After the hype of the s20 and the constant innovation of gotway, they would have a lot to compete with if everything was hunky dory. 

With the absolute disaster that is the v12 situation, i cant see them doing that great with just a comparable wheel to others on the market. They need to take a risk AND execute it excellently.

The v11 was a big risk that paid off and was executed very well imo. The v12 was supposed to be a safe play, that should have been an easy slam dunk for them. Now they need to replace just about every control board produced and compensate the dealers for warranty work. They struck out big time on the v12 so far. 

Will be interesting to see if they play it safe with the next wheel just to try to recoup their good standing and collect some profits. Or if they will try to take a risk, and put themselves back on the map with the community. 

Kingsong really got lucky with the timing of the s20 release. Put a real damper on the v12 hype initially and now they are delivering a wheel the commumity is gushing over while inmotion is dealing with what is likely the most expensive product "recall" in current euc history. 

[Tawpie]

Yay! Waiting for WW's review, rumor has it he's not 100% on board with the current train of thought. I'm anxious to hear the perspective of someone who's not drinking my kool aid.

Edited February 25, 2022 by Tawpie

[5Cauac]

46 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

Yay! Waiting for WW's review, rumor has it he's not 100% on board with the current train of thought. I'm anxious to hear the perspective of someone who's not drinking my kool aid.

Remember, he was not on board with the S18 either and gave it a bad review only to end up buying one with his own money. 

[Tawpie]

13 minutes ago, 5Cauac said:

only to end up buying one with his own money

Then he got bored riding down stairs with it. Everything I've seen looks like suspension takes the challenge of stairs down several notches so it's understandable that once they're conquered, the fun dies.

 

[5Cauac]

2 hours ago, Tawpie said:

Then he got bored riding down stairs with it. Everything I've seen looks like suspension takes the challenge of stairs down several notches so it's understandable that once they're conquered, the fun dies.

True, he did get bored of it rather quickly but then again, he is more of a paved road rider than an off road one.

I'd get bored as well which is why I also own a street wheel. 

Edited February 25, 2022 by 5Cauac

[Kutvis]

 

[Mango]

6 hours ago, Tawpie said:

Then he got bored riding down stairs with it. Everything I've seen looks like suspension takes the challenge of stairs down several notches so it's understandable that once they're conquered, the fun dies.

 

WW will be bored of the S20 as well because without suspension the S20 doesn’t particularly excel at any other performance metric as compared to other wheels.

Long range - sherman max/commander, torque - rst/16x, speed - sherman/master, convenience - 16x, 18xl, v12.

It looks cool, but the S18 was cool back in the day but nobody cares about that anymore.

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, Mango said:

WW will be bored of the S20 as well because without suspension the S20 doesn’t particularly excel at any other performance metric as compared to other wheels.

Long range - sherman max/commander, torque - rst/16x, speed - sherman/master, convenience - 16x, 18xl, v12.

It looks cool, but the S18 was cool back in the day but nobody cares about that anymore.

But, but, but, didn't the EEVEES crew mentioned that the rider on the Sherman Max couldn't keep with the S20 and the Hero when they were riding with Marty up Overheat Hill? Hence, it appears suspension can help with perceived performance. Having said that though, it is hard to say whether WW would care about this.

The quick tire change feature on the S20 is a big win from where I am standing. Again, it is hard to say whether WW would care.

And lastly, the great suspension on the S20 would make going down stairs even easier. Oh wait ...

OK, on second  thought  maybe you are right.

On third thought, he couldn't dismiss the smart BMS, can he?

Edited February 26, 2022 by techyiam
Added third thought.

[mrelwood]

4 hours ago, techyiam said:

On third thought, he couldn't dismiss the smart BMS, can he?

You’re right, he can’t. Hasn’t he been actively touting for bms safety and individual cell group monitoring for a year already?

[Forwardnbak]

Would there be any distaste from WW for receiving the wheel later than other reviewers? 
maybe a little politics between WW/Kingsong? I’m just speculating my thought. 
surely I would have thought he would have had an early prototype with his quality of review and audience reach, maybe as he received one kinda late his hate vibes were already up 

[Tawpie]

49 minutes ago, Forwardnbak said:

surely I would have thought he would have had an early prototype with his quality of review and audience reach

My guess: Kuji and ElectricDreams got one before anyone else because of their relationship with KS. Next came the distributors that had placed pre-orders of a certain size and lastly a very few influencers. Maybe WW being in Poland, his unit was delayed in customs? Vee and Hsaing are US based, things get cleared pretty quickly here, especially air freight.

I'm anticipating some thoughtful bring-me-back-down-to-earth observations, kind of like SpeedyFeet's it's-certainly-not-60-miles-for-me report. I do really truly hope he takes the time to set the suspension up properly, he should know how to do that from the S18 so I'm just assuming he does get it dialed. I'm sure he'll comment about how difficult it is to set spring preload without the goofy tool and that KS should have provided one (right Adam? I'm counting on you to point that out, nobody else has yet… it's a scoop!)

[GoGeorgeGo]

59 minutes ago, Forwardnbak said:

Would there be any distaste from WW for receiving the wheel later than other reviewers? 
maybe a little politics between WW/Kingsong? I’m just speculating my thought. 
surely I would have thought he would have had an early prototype with his quality of review and audience reach, maybe as he received one kinda late his hate vibes were already up 

Sure hope not. Talk about ruining the integrity of your reviews. If anything i bet he is just dissapointed at what it could have been. 

Im sure the wheel itself is great, but the community hype makes it feel 10x more innovative than it really is. We have seen suspension already. We have faster wheels, we have longer range wheels, we have peppier wheels. A strong well rounded product for sure, but maybe mot a must own like you would gather from some of the gushing over it we have seen. 

[Paul A]

 

[Forwardnbak]

Im really looking forward to WW take on it. His time and quality of video is inspiring. Also wish him well neighbouring on hectic places at hectic times. 
I think the mood of the area might not be right for making hyped videos at the moment, which is perfectly understandable. 
I think I trust his advice the most from all the reviewers I see. 
 

[Paul A]