Kingsong S20/S22 (Confirmed)

[DragonFZ]

After October 10th big reveal, Begode will have a surprise reveal next day... LOL

[Curt8892]

11 hours ago, DragonFZ said:

After October 10th big reveal, Begode will have a surprise reveal next day... LOL

5 new wheels. 😂 

[Paul g]

BeCopy will hit again! Hurrah 😁!!!

[NErider]

Just unbox my wheel from Ewheels! I have to get my pads and aftermarket pedals on it. But bouncing on it seems smooth and it comes back up smooth and fast as expected since it is new. Definitely cumbersome to lift compared to my S18. I'm sure I will get used to it. 

[kiitick]

Got my replacement motor installed today. I really think this wheel is my new go to wheel. I haven't had any problems with the suspension. It's really great for a big guy.

[NErider]

Got my 6 miles done and speed unlocked. Very different riding experience compared to the S18. The tire looks and feels much wider. I thought I was going to want to swap it out immediately for a TR1 or a Kenda 262, but this is really good for now. 

[Rawnei]

49 minutes ago, NErider said:

Got my 6 miles done and speed unlocked. Very different riding experience compared to the S18. The tire looks and feels much wider. I thought I was going to want to swap it out immediately for a TR1 or a Kenda 262, but this is really good for now. 

I see this tire as an upgraded version of the K262, already bought a spare one! 👍

[kiitick]

I really like those pedals.  Where did you get them?  I haven't had much luck finding a set that's compatible with the s22.  Although the stock pedals are pretty good, best stock pedals on anything so far. 

[NErider]

3 hours ago, kiitick said:

I really like those pedals.  Where did you get them?  I haven't had much luck finding a set that's compatible with the s22.  Although the stock pedals are pretty good, best stock pedals on anything so far. 

They are a little heavy compared to the stock ones. But insanely grippy with real studs. Much more, even than stock. I think they look awesome on the S22.

I got them from Erides dot com. They shipped internationally without a problem. About $200 or $250 if i remember correctly. I ordered them a long time ago when I thought the wheel was originally shipping.

They call them the Ironman S22 pedals and looks like they are in stock right now. 

[RagingGrandpa]

On 3/24/2022 at 3:08 PM, RagingGrandpa said:

(And thanks @Tawpie for the datasheet!)

But, it's not very impressive  

It's just a lower-power FET.
  JJM 150V:          167W @ 100°C
  HY5012 125V:   250W @ 100°C

My conclusion: this JJM FET can be safe and durable, but Kingsong won't be able to set the firmware to command as much current with it, as they could have done if a stronger FET were used. And so S20 will never be capable of the low-speed motor torque that we have with 84V and 100V Gotways at >100A pulses per-FET. 
(This also seems to match the demo rider feedback, which often mentioned weak performance from a standstill.)

For us torque-lovers, perhaps in a future wheel they'll find room for a 3rd parallel FET, or change to a more expensive part with higher current ratings.  

Ah, a FET upgrade is being teased, let's see it!

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1876404869187267/posts/2186278351533249/

[supercurio]

11 minutes ago, RagingGrandpa said:

Ah, a FET upgrade is being teased, let's see it!

On that!

[supercurio]

A heads-up on the upgraded version.

A few dealers and I share concerns about the mainboard changes, which need investigation and evaluation. In the meantime it's probably best to wait before taking decisions to sell/upgrade/buy a S22.

I can't predict the results yet, it's reasonable to expect it will take some time to gain full confidence on the new board.

[Elliott Reitz]

1 hour ago, supercurio said:

A heads-up on the upgraded version.

A few dealers and I share concerns about the mainboard changes, which need investigation and evaluation. In the meantime it's probably best to wait before taking decisions to sell/upgrade/buy a S22.

I can't predict the results yet, it's reasonable to expect it will take some time to gain full confidence on the new board.

If anyone can get their hands on any controller of any version I'd be glad to pay for it.  I did pay KS $180 to ship one but they sent it to someone else and blew me off, never returned my cash.  I have a dead wheel that's killed 3 controllers (all failed during charging and then produced hall-sensor errors or noises while fighting itself above 10mph (unridable)).  My impression is the ground switching KS did between charger, batteries, and controller are undersized and burn out (as measured 20V difference between charger and battery ground). 

[techyiam]

Now that many preorder folks have received their S22's, there doesn't seem to be many complaints on how it rides. There has been a little bit of noise regarding the overly wide top, rearend weight bias, and firm ride, but on the other hand, there have been a lot of praises for how it performs off-road, major issues aside.

On hindsight, if Kingsong could have delivered what was promised right from the start without the issues, this could have been a slam dunk.

So what is the moral of the story? Like don't rush a new model to market. But that is exactly what @Jack ex-KS said about lessons learnt from the S18, and the S20 would be different. 

Kingsong knows what the market wants, but they can't deliver, without a long protracted beta program that include paying customers. 

What a shame. 

Edited October 13, 2022 by techyiam

[LightWave]

13 minutes ago, techyiam said:

Now that many preorder folks have received their S22's, there doesn't seem to be many complaints on how it rides.

s22 rides really nice! Not much for torque but pretty fast and good range! You feel like a machine on the thing! Yeah such a shame on all the issues though. For the price range better off saving up and getting a Sherman Max or Begode Master Pro

Edited October 13, 2022 by ElectronxCycles

[NErider]

I gotta say the aftermarket pedals and pads make it feel like a seriously solid platform. And I was surprised how nimble it is with the wide tire. I definitely notice the lack of slow speed torque, but that may be fixed with the new boards in the future? I don't have any issues with how wide it is at all. 

[kiitick]

I have not noticed any lack of torque. It will haul my 105 kilos up a steep hill starting from zero. No other wheel has been able to do it. Any other wheel requires a nice head of speed and barely makes it up. I feel like people want to equate zippy with lots of torque, which is not the case at all. Although not quick off the line, it never stops rolling, even at very low speeds up a cliff. I keep hoping to hear news on a purchasable slider kit, and this wheel will be perfect for my usage. I haven't even been interested in the new stuff coming out.

Overall, this is an awesome wheel. It has replaced my Sherman as my daily commuter, and my s18 for off road/technical riding. I use after market pads, and it feels much more nimble than the Sherman. It also eats up bumps at higher speeds, and had the least amount of battery sag in any wheel I've compared it to. (S18, v12 both versions, v11, Sherman, and Abrams). 

{On a side note, we found it replacing the motor that the Sherman and the s22 can use the same inner tube)

 

 

Edited October 13, 2022 by kiitick

[gon2fast]

5 hours ago, NErider said:

lack of slow speed torque

You have to mash it hard to get the off the line performance it has. I have also been doing some decent off-road climbing that did not seem to stress the motor much.

Ass backwards statement from someone riding on a questionable motor, but having a hell of a time.

[chanman]

Are you all on the stock pads or did you try something else? Stock pads are feeling unreasonably wide to me.

[Miko.cz]

I have almost 1000km on it, but as I was noted - it means nothing if you are not trying new things. I ride roads, bikepaths, dirtpaths, stones, grass, small trails, but no sand. No extremes. Last weekend I spent few hours on serious bike big trails with others (more S22 riders and one Master) - my very first big trail ride and i must say: wtf! "go to hell" all road only riders asking for 100km speeds, thats no skill (more the luck, good gear and lack of living will), I have to learn tons of things. Im so happy batteries are not covered in plastic bag only .
S22 is doing well, it have its pains, to be fair i hoped in less of them.
Im 86kg with gear, sliders original but shock changed to 450lbs. Original "toothpaste" replaced with teflon - not perfect and road-only riders will complain for sure, but works universaly everywhere - just not as soft as hype predicted (Im waiting for results of bearings solutions of great modders as I have my doubts about long time use and also real trails). Not yet replaced anything else (MB, motor, pads, pedals, tyre etc). I like the battery monitoring system informations.
Problems: some vibrations (front/back pedals) over 45km/h (probably tyre/inner tyre needs to be better seated) and its harder to get power available to motor to me (but others doesnt have this problem, so its about me - pads/pedals/skill), front lights are vaporizers - added plugs to each second + FLIC2 button for on/off on wrist protector. Seat is so soft at the back, I will probably add support from modder community and lower sensitivity of the related magnetic switch. No chance to turn off turn lights :/
Summary: great wheel that suits my needs and allows my skills to grow. But KS... what about all these mistakes that should be addressed in prototyping? And Gold Leaper Eagle? bleh... we are not riding renders, redirect marketing money to QC :-/

[techyiam]

2 hours ago, kiitick said:

Overall, this is an awesome wheel. It has replaced my Sherman as my daily commuter,

Do you ride on main roads? How is stability in the speed range between 35 mph and 43 mph, when compared to your Sherman? 

 

2 hours ago, kiitick said:

the least amount of battery sag in any wheel I've compared it to. (S18, v12 both versions, v11, Sherman, and Abrams).

That is impressive. What cells are in your S22? Both the Sherman and Abrams use Samsung cells and with more p's.

Is the Abrams the most stable of those wheels you mentioned at higher speeds, albeit 100.8V and not 126V?

Edited October 13, 2022 by techyiam

[kiitick]

My main commute is a bike lane on a main road. It's stability is great, but it's a bit higher, so stability is about the same. The big difference is comfort at those speeds. I've got the high discharge batteries in both my s22 and s18. 

 

The range is not quite as good as my Sherman, but I can go over 50 miles going between 20 and 30 mph.

 

[gon2fast]

On 10/12/2022 at 11:21 PM, chanman said:

Are you all on the stock pads or did you try something else?

Got rid of those on day one and went with a minimal DIY solution. If I were to get manufactured power pads for the S22 I would go with the Grizzlas.

[NErider]

If you get Grizzla "Big" you probably want the fairings too. I had to bias my pads forward for them to fit without the fairings. If I could do it again, I'd probably go with the Regular size or whatever it's called. The "Big" are in fact Big. Or I need to get fairings. 

[5Cauac]

12 minutes ago, NErider said:

If you get Grizzla "Big" you probably want the fairings too. I had to bias my pads forward for them to fit without the fairings. If I could do it again, I'd probably go with the Regular size or whatever it's called. The "Big" are in fact Big. Or I need to get fairings. 

Fairings are needed for the regular sized ones as well on the S22. The break pads sit further back and need the support. I made my own out of 1/8 in thick 12x12 polystyrene plastic sheets.