Inmotion V11 review by KS fan boy ;)

[hal2000]

So, first things first - my wheel history: KingSong 16B, 16S, 18L, 18XL, 16X.

Now, to an unbiased review

I got it today, courtesy of eunicycles.eu. I am grateful to Richard for entrusting me with this brand new EUC.

So, straight out of the box with 47% battery as indicated in the app (4 bars on the wheel display). Shocks pumped to 170 (I'm about 100 kg). We didn't play with the negative chambers.

FIRST IMPRESSIONS:

Very, very solid build with quality materials. It has the sort of design that grows on you. I love the kick stand, it's integration and descreetness. Handle - not so much (more on that later). I still consider KS18L/XL and 16X "the handlebar kings". Great pedals - large comfortable and gripped. Wonderful front and back lighrs. But you know all that already. So, moving on...

THE RIDE

As with any new EUC I needed a moment to adjust but once that happened, oh man, I just loved it (default settings - comfortable commuting mode). I took it to all those city streets and routes I hate going through due to their surface quality (potholes, bumps, uneven conditions, etc.) and it handled them great. Some off-road trails as well - not bad, although (if I remeber correctly) the ride was a little bit smoother on S18. Pleasant surprise - riding through gravel was unusually enjoyable nad troubleless. Back in the city (maybe due to its and my weight combined) the ride seemed more stable than on S18. It's important that on both wheels the suspension does not disconnect you from the road, so you still "feel" your ride. I expected more responsivness after watching the reviews but maybe the lack of it resulted from choosing the commuting mode.

THE FEATURES AND SPECS

Finally someone got the lights right DLR, full beam, front, back. IMHO V11 is the current "light king" (although I miss the side leds and hope they will be available at least as an option). I love the battery bar display which is clearly visible while riding. Despite I don't use them a lot I miss the speakers (again - hope they return as an option). Very surprisingly I didn't notice the weight... I was expecting something noticeably heavier than my XL but somehow it felt similar (maybe due to its relative "thinness" and "smothness" which make carrying it more comfortable). Handlebar - just ok - I'm 185 cm tall and if I ware even one cm taller it would sit too low for comfortable trollying.

THE GLITCH(es)

Now everyone is waiting for these  Sooo... according to the app I did 20 miles on it before I got tilted back in this famous InMotion trademarked way ("overload, please get off" - however the tone of voice was nicer than on V10). And it wouldn't be a problem but... it came slightly unexpected due to several reasons: 1) The bars on the top battery display went down one by one in regular intervals except this radically changed with the last two instances (I mean once only one was left I was expecting some time (or miles) to pass before getting the blinking "reserve mode") but it took maybe 1 mile and I had to get off and was never to go back on, and I was in the middle of the trail which meant 3 mile walk home, by the river, accompanied by thousands of mosquitos.....  2) There were no other alarms or tiltbacks to inform me that I'm doing my final mile. All my KingSongs let me know well in advance that I need to plan my safe return, Here - suddenly the situation is getting critical. And, while V11 did not limit my speed in any noticeable way till the end (which was great) the only and final tilt back came very suddenly at considerable speed and thus resulted in almost a crash (as we all know breaking while you are being tillted back is tricky). This has to be fixed because it's simply dangerous. So now I'm an expert on trolleying V11and I can tell you again that this handlebar is just about ok for my height and I can also tell you that it was more comfy for me to trolley it with the engine off than on. The wheel was more stable this way.

OVERALL

I love it and I am seriously considering not returning it (sorry Richard ;). Everybody says there is no perfect wheel and I agree. But this one is pretty close to it, especially if you are a city commuter. Of course we need more miles on it as a community but at the moment it's difficult for me to hide my enthusiasm.

PS

Eunicycles.eu is planning a demo event in Wroclaw, Poland soon (if not tomorrow - check their FB). So if you are currently nearby and you love EUCs then you should consider participating. 

[brockj]

How does the motor compare to the 2200W KingSongs? I was curious about torque / responsiveness / hill climbing.

[hal2000]

I'll be riding today a little more and will report back here

[hal2000]

Part II - in short:

- in a drag race it may lose but in a "real race" - longer distance over various quality surfaces it will win  

- you need to adjust your technique; the biggest challange for me was a quick start - it seems you need to use your loin more than your feet

- relatively steep and longer climbs - safe

- today I did 16 miles (battery from full to 75%)

- I changed the riding mode from commuting to off-road but I like the commuting one more (on any sufaces);

- I don't like the cut off switch on it; in case of emergency when you jump off the wheel you normally catch it by the handle, and then it switches off, which in difficult situations and terrain is tricky; also the cut off switch is just next to handle release switch which was confusing - but this one you may get used to;

Unfortunately I had to give it back (Ryszard from eunicycles.eu was armed)    : (

If you have any questions please ask. Cheers!

 

PS

@brockj I have owned XL for the past year and I see a lot of similarities in terms of design - it is smooth, easy to ride, easy to carry (more difficult to trolley unfortunately due to the handle design different to KS); overall it's better and should be considered an upgrade; riding on 18xl is more effortless and chilled though (if you are not in a hurry); one final thing: I am a heavy rider and I have to say that was one and only reason for me to abandon XL;  the 2.5 inch tyre was just not enough.

[stephen]

5 minutes ago, hal2000 said:

I don't like the cut off switch on it; in case of emergency when you jump off the wheel you normally catch it by the handle,

Can't you switch the cut off button to off in the app

[hal2000]

You can but that's not the solution due to the nature of emergency situaltions

Edited July 28, 2020 by hal2000

[Rywokast]

3 hours ago, hal2000 said:

You can but that's not the solution due to the nature of emergency situaltions

no wheel will allow the cutoff button to work while it is moving.. so not sure how this could ever be an issue

[hal2000]

On a very steep hill the wheel is not moving anymore.

[RockyTop]

On 7/29/2020 at 2:20 AM, hal2000 said:

On a very steep hill the wheel is not moving anymore.

True. I have the S18. The S18 doesn’t have a handle to grab onto when you exit quickly and try to grab it. To make things worse I hit the off button while trying to grab something and the wheel went limp. Luckily I had put my foot behind the wheel and I caught it anyway. 

 

[Lieven]

I much agree with your review. Me also i am a 18XL driver.
I love the thicker tyre, the nice thin design, the true headlight, the easiness at the first ride, the trolley being just at my height (i am 183) being 95Kg i pumped the air at 150 lower 100 upper.
I also like the silence of the wheel compared with the loud wining of my 18XL.
The v11 does not let you feel the higher speed you do so at 35-40 you still feel very comfy and maybe that causes my biggest BUT:

the range was really disappointing my 18XL 1540Wh gives me a range of 80-100 km and at 30% it stays below 30km/h which is fine for me as i then know the battery gets more empty. The xl throws me off at 2-5%

in contrary the V11 does really well till 14% and threw me off, nothing to do and i still had some kilometers to WALK with a NOT EMPTY battery.
I barely had 60 kilometers on the counter with this 14% i could have done some 10km more
The other disappointment is the saddle which is fixed on top with 2 screws lef 2 screws richt and also 2x2 on the bottom. the rings or fixation points are way to thin. I had one cracked even at delivery.

The tire that came with it is very bad, ik follows every length crack in the road . I tried  several pressures betwee 2,4 and 3,3 bars and ended at 2,4 . so I immediately ordered another tyre

This V11 wheel is for me nearly perfect. 
What i like:

• the looks
• the lights
• the smooth rides
• damping of bumps so i need less bent knees
• the silence
• stability at higher speed

What i miss on my V11:

• portability
• range
• a good tyre
   

[stephen]

2 hours ago, Lieven said:

in contrary the V11 does really well till 14% and threw me off, nothing to do and i still had some kilometers to WALK with a NOT EMPTY battery.

If you put in go home mode it would of gone back to 30% battery ,,I hate that feature  I'd rather judge the distance and speed myself 

[GoGeorgeGo]

5 hours ago, stephen said:

If you put in go home mode it would of gone back to 30% battery ,,I hate that feature  I'd rather judge the distance and speed myself 

Can you go down to 0% on go home mode? Just wondering if it cuts out again at 15% after activating go home mode. Also what are the speeds allowed by go home mode?

[UniVehje]

5 hours ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

Can you go down to 0% on go home mode? Just wondering if it cuts out again at 15% after activating go home mode. Also what are the speeds allowed by go home mode?

It will allow to go down to 10 % again. And even before that you can go down to 10 %. But if you ride aggressively, you might have some voltage sags and it seems like it’s at 15% when at stand still. It’s weird that 10% is really 0 %. You just have to remember it. 

On the Go Home -mode you can ride very slowly. I did about 20-25 km/h (75 kg weight) but accelerations should be very easy. 

Edited October 12, 2020 by UniVehje

[GoGeorgeGo]

Yeah i dont like 10% being 0%, thats not helpful

[UniVehje]

14 hours ago, Lieven said:

I much agree with your review. Me also i am a 18XL driver.

I also switched from an 18XL, very similar thoughts here.

14 hours ago, Lieven said:

being 95Kg i pumped the air at 150 lower 100 upper.

If you want to experiment, try having 50 % of the PSI in the upper. @mrelwood is same weight and has tested a lot and can suggest you different pressures that work. 

14 hours ago, Lieven said:

I also like the silence of the wheel compared with the loud wining of my 18XL.

Update the firmware on you 18XL and it also goes silent. 

14 hours ago, Lieven said:

the range was really disappointing my 18XL 1540Wh gives me a range of 80-100 km and at 30% it stays below 30km/h which is fine for me as i then know the battery gets more empty. The xl throws me off at 2-5%

in contrary the V11 does really well till 14% and threw me off, nothing to do and i still had some kilometers to WALK with a NOT EMPTY battery.

I agree. I ride a lot of long distance and this is definitely the biggest negative on my V11. I’d buy a V11F in a heartbeat. Try the Go Home -mode on the app next time you run out of battery and ride very easily. You can get some more kilometers. At this firmware the V11 doesn’t allow the battery to drain as low as the 18XL does. That’s the biggest reason for shorter range. 

14 hours ago, Lieven said:

The other disappointment is the saddle which is fixed on top with 2 screws lef 2 screws richt and also 2x2 on the bottom. the rings or fixation points are way to thin. I had one cracked even at delivery.

Just ask for a warranty replacement. The new version should be ready soon. 

14 hours ago, Lieven said:

The tire that came with it is very bad, ik follows every length crack in the road . I tried  several pressures betwee 2,4 and 3,3 bars and ended at 2,4 . so I immediately ordered another tyre

That center line needs to wear down and then it stops following every crack. Takes about 1000 km. Otherwise it’s an ok tire and at this point installed in almost every bigger wheel. Let me know which tire you chose and how it feels. I’m also interested to try another one. H-666 would be very good but difficult to find as it’s discontinued. 

[Seba]

On 10/12/2020 at 8:48 AM, UniVehje said:

I agree. I ride a lot of long distance and this is definitely the biggest negative on my V11. I’d buy a V11F in a heartbeat. Try the Go Home -mode on the app next time you run out of battery and ride very easily. You can get some more kilometers. At this firmware the V11 doesn’t allow the battery to drain as low as the 18XL does. That’s the biggest reason for shorter range. 

Another problem with V11 is that in reality, it doesn't have 1500 Wh battery but only 1456 Wh. More, V11 enters low battery mode at 3.3V/cell. While you can activate "go home" mode, it allows you to go to 3.15V/cell, which translates into just 3-5 km more. At the same time XL will go to 3.0V/cell. Limited range is also the biggest disappointment for me in this otherwise perfect wheel.

[EUChristian]

The abrupt tilt back was just noted in Dufs new video. Same problem as preproduction units. No warning just full titlt back. That's a big problem. 

[Lieven]

On 10/12/2020 at 8:48 AM, UniVehje said:

That center line needs to wear down and then it stops following every crack. Takes about 1000 km. Otherwise it’s an ok tire and at this point installed in almost every bigger wheel. Let me know which tire you chose and how it feels. I’m also interested to try another one. H-666 would be very good but difficult to find as it’s discontinued. 

thanks for all advice, I can still find the H-666 on aliexpress but at a very high price

>> Update the firmware on you 18XL and it also goes silent.

I have v1,11 and cannot go higher with it :-( maybe beeing in europe blocks higher versions or maybe the XL is an older version

 

[stephen]

On 10/13/2020 at 11:12 AM, Seba said:

Another problem with V11 is that in reality, it doesn't have 1500 Wh battery but only 1456 Wh. More, V11 enters low battery mode at 3.3V/cell. While you can activate "go home" mode, it allows you to go to 3.15V/cell, which translates into just 3-5 km more. At the same time XL will go to 3.0V/cell. Limited range is also the biggest disappointment for me in this otherwise perfect wheel.

If they are using go home mode and you've got to take it steady mph surely they could go to 3.0v per cell it still shouldn't damage the battery's,,I hate the hidden battery percentage  I'd rather see it tbh

[AtlasP]

On 10/13/2020 at 4:12 AM, Seba said:

Another problem with V11 is that in reality, it doesn't have 1500 Wh battery but only 1456 Wh.

This is the second time I've seen you say this which I've not seen mentioned anywhere else (ecodrift/etc seem content that it is 1500 Wh). Can you provide a source or explanation/math?

Edited October 15, 2020 by AtlasP

[Seba]

21 minutes ago, AtlasP said:

This is the second time I've seen you claim this which I've not seen claimed/confirmed anywhere else (ecodrift/etc seem content that it is 1500 Wh). Can you provide a source or explanation/math?

Take LG INR21700-M50T single cell capacity from datasheet (18.2 Wh) and multiply by cell count in the V11 battery (80). Of course usable capacity will be lower by about 10%, as cell capacity is specified for 2.5 V discharge while V11 goes down to 3.15V per cell.

[mrelwood]

A new C-1488 tire can be slightly restless at times, but I wouldn’t go over 2.4 bars even for a 110kg rider. If you want to calm down the tire, try 2.0 bars.

As @UniVehje mentioned, I’ve been testing different suspension pressures a lot. What I’ve found is that a few things affect how different pressures function, so identical pressures on two different V11’s may give quite a different ride.

 As the S18 catastrophe has taught us, friction is the worst enemy of a suspension system. If the suspended element can’t travel freely, the behavior of the suspension is determined by the shock pressures and the amount of friction together.

 The main point of friction on the V11 are the 8 black plastic suspension guides/sliders. The mechanism is quite picky about how much room there should be between these sliders and the rails. Too little room and they don’t slide easy enough. Too much room, and the sliders jam as the pedals tilt the system during acceleration and braking. As the sliders and the rails wear, they both add quitea lot of friction, and getting the suspension to work well is tricky. Drastically lowering the negative chamber pressure (and the main chamber a bit as well for the correct sag) helps, since the friction already takes care of the rebound damping.

 The mechanism has room for improvement, and I will express my ideas to Inmotion once I’ve done more tests. I already tried PTFE sliders, and I’m currently testing 3D-printed ones, just from basic PLA.

I used to prefer 160/90 psi on the shocks, and now at 2000km I ride with 155/25. Riding weight about 108kg. Either way, 170psi is way too much even for a 110kg load!

[Lieven]

On 10/12/2020 at 8:48 AM, UniVehje said:

I agree. I ride a lot of long distance and this is definitely the biggest negative on my V11. I’d buy a V11F in a heartbeat. Try the Go Home -mode on the app next time you run out of battery and ride very easily. You can get some more kilometers. At this firmware the V11 doesn’t allow the battery to drain as low as the 18XL does. That’s the biggest reason for shorter range. 

I hope InMotion will drop this go-home feature soon as i never use my phone while riding. I want to take the wheel and use it without having to priggle with the app once it is configured as i want

 

[stephen]

1 hour ago, Lieven said:

I hope InMotion will drop this go-home feature soon as i never use my phone while riding. I want to take the wheel and use it without having to priggle with the app once it is configured as i want

 

Me to i hate it tbh

[Tokumeino]

Thanks a lot @hal2000 and @Lieven for the input. Intitially, I was to upgrade my KS16S to a KS16X but I did further research as I've read that the KS16X was not as well waterproofed as other KS wheels. The V11 is very different but when you want 3" tire and 1500+Wh, don't like the Nikola design and need a convenient trolley handle, then the V11 pops up, even for people who, like me, strongly dislike suspension on bikes. Your "you still "feel" your ride"  is very relevant to me.

I'm just wondering, since you can compare with the KS16X...

V11 is obviously superior to KS16X for wild and long rides. But for commuting in a dense city (Paris, France), and bringing the wheel in small shops, markets and so on, I'm still hesitating and I would appreciate your input :

1. The V11 pedals are very high. In a dense trafic, is it OK to repetadly climb up to the wheel ?
2. Despite the weight, is it OK to do your shopping ? .... with a basket and carring the V11, in convenience stores, bakeries and small supermarkets. 
3. Despite the larger wheel and the weight, is it OK to slalom and find your own path between stopped cars stuck in trafic jams ?

I mean, I guess that the KS16X is better for that, but by a small or large margin ?

Edited November 24, 2020 by Tokumeino