mhpr262 Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 20 minutes ago, LanghamP said: Could they then design a better CVT? I doubt it, physics and material science is just what it is and will only take you so far. It is like trying to come up with a way to make a modern Wankel engine that can match today's gas mileage and exhaust requirements - the combustion chamber just has the literally worst shape possible and nothing can overcome that. With an electric motor you really only need two gears because of its torque curve. Continuously variable is way overkill. But a gearbox for a unicycle is not as outlandish as it seems IMHO. I have always thought that instead of that huge and heavy in-wheel motor a separate, smaller conventional electric motor with a smooth belt drive could save a lot of weight. A gearbox for such a motorshouldnt be so difficult to design. Tiny 1/10th scale RC cars have a two speed gearbox. Hell, even if I had to stop the wheel and change gears manually from high speed cruising mode to offroad mode by hand when I leave the pavement it would mean a massive improvement in performance, speed and range. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..... Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 27 minutes ago, shwinston said: I have personally confirmed that the Veteran can reach 50 mph. That's getting close to 60. Wow, that is impressive. I would suspect that 50mph with a buffer of safety, would be enough for most streets. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tudordewolf Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 (edited) 12 hours ago, shwinston said: I have personally confirmed that the Veteran can reach 50 mph. That's getting close to 60. 60mph over level ground would require 70% more power than 50mph, assuming the torque and current draw increases with the square of speed (for a 44% increase), and voltage increases with RPM (a further 20% increase) for a total of 72.8% more power, and a 20% larger reserve to overcome the same obstacle (for a bump which costs you 1mph, ((602)-(592))/((502)-(492)) = ~1.2 Edited June 11, 2020 by tudordewolf grammar 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikieSWE Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 (edited) On 6/10/2020 at 10:24 PM, mhpr262 said: But a gearbox for a unicycle is not as outlandish as it seems IMHO. I have always thought that instead of that huge and heavy in-wheel motor a separate, smaller conventional electric motor with a smooth belt drive could save a lot of weight. There are technology of today that can keep electric motor FULL torque from ZERO revolutions to MAX revolutions in a electric motor. So, gears, gearboxes are just ridiculous. Its all electronic control, and electrics. A electrician would say that an electric motor is just like that but it is not. A motor that make as e.g. 2850 revolutions has a low rev. limit, means below that less or no no torque. I say from 0, today's Tech go from. Its all the electronic mambo-jambo, but its in the industry today. And small. Plausible to EUC's aswell. Imagine standing on that uphill, 1-3mph and still going in 60 degrees?.. upwards, until traction fails. No gears needed. Another way of see it is... would anyone pay like $7500-10.000 for a 'average' or little better wheel, with huge and ridiculous massive torque? Other hand this tech can be reversed for higher revs aswell, like a gearbox if you want to put it that way. (edit added) Edited June 11, 2020 by MikieSWE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deflated tractioninterface Posted June 12, 2020 Author Share Posted June 12, 2020 Yeah gearboxes are definitely not needed we already have REALLY POWERFUL hub motors that can eat the 0-60+ unicycle envelope for breakfast. What's needed is someone to actually build and ride this beast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhpr262 Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 On 6/11/2020 at 3:24 AM, tudordewolf said: 60mph over level ground would require 70% more power than 50mph, assuming the torque and current draw increases with the square of speed (for a 44% increase), and voltage increases with RPM (a further 20% increase) for a total of 72.8% more power, and a 20% larger reserve to overcome the same obstacle (for a bump which costs you 1mph, ((602)-(592))/((502)-(492)) = ~1.2 The question is, would a bump at that speed really cost as much speed (and power) to overcome it? After all all the air resistance at that speed is pretty massive. It is possible that the wheel would need no extra power at all, just use a little less power to push forward and let the wind resistance do the rest of the balancing out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tudordewolf Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, mhpr262 said: The question is, would a bump at that speed really cost as much speed (and power) to overcome it? After all all the air resistance at that speed is pretty massive. It is possible that the wheel would need no extra power at all, just use a little less power to push forward and let the wind resistance do the rest of the balancing out. In my experience, the same obstacle at a higher speed causes a greater disturbance to an EUC. Hitting a bump or pothole gets more violent the faster you're going. at least at speeds between 5 and 30mph. Maybe if you're going fast enough you'd skim over a pothole, but any raised bump or stick could still be an issue. On a normal wheeled vehicle, a bump just costs you a bit of forward motion; you don't really notice if it takes a few seconds to recover that speed. On an EUC, it causes you to lean forward by slowing you down at the wheel; your body keeps moving at the same speed, so the wheel has to replace that lost motion immediately, basically while the bump happens, or else you're falling forwards. I'm really curious what effect wind resistance would have on balancing at that speed. A rider's stance to reach 60mph would have you leaning pretty aggressively off the front of the unicycle already, but that angle would actually give you "lift" like a long-jump skier. Maybe a little parachute / cape could actually be a safety mechanism at that speed, to catch and slow you if you fall past a certain angle! Edited June 12, 2020 by tudordewolf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Planemo Posted June 12, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted June 12, 2020 I must admit I find that at around 40mph even with zero static wind speed I am pretty much near my comfort limit. Even crouched at these speeds, I notice that I must be heavily over the front given my shins are actually forward of the 'bump' in my powerpads. I would never have guessed that I was so far forward were it not for this reference point. Yes I could lock my shins into the pad and torque the wheel instead but then I lose a lot of my leg suspension movement which I don't want to give up at these speeds. My legs need to be totally flexible because as has been said, at 40+mph small bumps become a real issue. Since my first foray into EUC I have been gradually upping my speeds and at one point thought that 50mph would indeed be OK (for certain carefully chosen surfaces) but in reality the sheer force of airspeed has pretty much made me plateau and be happy with what I have. Try standing up in a 40mph gale and then think about trying to keep a single wheel on track beneath you, whilst watching for and avoiding the slightest road imperfection. I have no issue with faster wheels being produced, I like a bit of speed, but for me the 40~45mph mark is about as much as I can handle. Maybe suspension will move the goalposts a bit, but the rider still has a lot of forces to contend with. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliott Reitz Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 (edited) I have one (unicycle that goes >60 mph). In fact I've ridden it on 1 wheel for at least 1/10 mile at over 100 mph a several times. Its WHY I got into EUC. My dog is the beneficiary. Its an EBR 1190sx made by Erik Buel Racing in 2014. It has 220 hp and weighs just 400 lbs wet. I put a 49T rear sprocket on it for going slower in my neighborhood... and fwiw, ever since rev-limiting computers the auto-shifters are bs because once I get the clutch out in 1st its just a shift lift until it hits the rev-limit and pop-shifts... I reload and it happens 5 times till I'm at 150 mph with my front wheel dancing if not flying. Others have done sub-9.0 sec 1/4 miles on it. I wish I had ridden my own EBR on my track day instead of that GSX-600 crappy thing that injured my wrists with the forward lean and vib. I've got great mods on my EBR including risors and nicer seats that my GF sure appreciates, though also cuts my hand-weight to nothing. SO after 3 months (purchased in Sept... by Nov) I figured I'd better really really really know how to ride on 1 wheel ... was already using a hoverboard ... discovered a EUC on ebay, then jason cooch-tech with the e+... got my e+ in Nov 2018... rode 5 miles/day, 30 miles/week averaging 7 mph since then... got my MSX August 2019... and NOW... can't wait for the more comfortable S18 that I've ordered. hmm, my MSX is approaching this mileage! Edited June 17, 2020 by Elliott Reitz note EBR milage isn't much over the MSX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..... Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 (edited) On 6/12/2020 at 12:05 PM, Planemo said: I must admit I find that at around 40mph even with zero static wind speed I am pretty much near my comfort limit. Even crouched at these speeds, I notice that I must be heavily over the front given my shins are actually forward of the 'bump' in my powerpads. I would never have guessed that I was so far forward were it not for this reference point. Yes I could lock my shins into the pad and torque the wheel instead but then I lose a lot of my leg suspension movement which I don't want to give up at these speeds. My legs need to be totally flexible because as has been said, at 40+mph small bumps become a real issue. Since my first foray into EUC I have been gradually upping my speeds and at one point thought that 50mph would indeed be OK (for certain carefully chosen surfaces) but in reality the sheer force of airspeed has pretty much made me plateau and be happy with what I have. Try standing up in a 40mph gale and then think about trying to keep a single wheel on track beneath you, whilst watching for and avoiding the slightest road imperfection. I have no issue with faster wheels being produced, I like a bit of speed, but for me the 40~45mph mark is about as much as I can handle. Maybe suspension will move the goalposts a bit, but the rider still has a lot of forces to contend with. I find this to be very valid and on point. I too notice that even at KS slow speeds of a mere 26mph, the battle with wind becomes prevalent. Up to around 18mph, the wind really doesnt seem to get in my way as far as lean. Keep in mind, Im as thin as a twig and wear minimal protection. I can only assume that wide people with robocop gear on, are even more a sail into the wind. Of course, speed of wind caused by motion, is more predictable than just a 25mph gust. Tho 40mph isnt all that fast, I can definitely see where wind becomes a bigger factor. I'd imagine that at those speeds, a side wind doesnt do so much, as you are already in motion. But I could see how a gusty head wind, combined with having to lean a lot, could prove difficult. Even at speeds under 30mph, it is not uncommon for me to be leveraging into the wind, well past a comfortable angle. If I'm traveling with the wind and I get a gust that exceeds my forward speed while leaning heavily, it surely does send me into a dangerous feeling. So far, no face plants at high speed, but its only a matter of time I suppose. With all of these realizations about the physics of an euc, the unpredictability of road surfaces, the unpredictability of the QC in these devices, it's probably a good thing (for me) that they don't allow us to blindly do 60mph. Man that sucks to admit, but I'm starting to lean that way...Perhaps its time to dust off the supermoto and put it back into rotation... Edited June 17, 2020 by ShanesPlanet 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Kim Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 I’m most happy cruising around 30-35 mph, but for perfect road conditions (and a visor) I could touch 45 and be comfortable. Fastest I’ve touched was 43 mph on my old Monster 100V but it was the fear of cutout more than the actual speed that gave me pause. I think initially I will limit myself around 40-45 mph on the Sherman, but if other riders start posting videos of them doing 50 regularly, ill test the limits, at least once. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZenRyder Posted March 26, 2021 Share Posted March 26, 2021 On 6/10/2020 at 8:33 AM, LanghamP said: I wonder if an CVT (continuously variable transmission) would be feasible. I think this is the issue. The Sherman has enough battery, but at high speeds the motor is at the top end of it's performance. If you had a CVT on a hollow motor which would provide room for the CVT inside, then you would have an amazingly compact Motor, CVT, Battery, incredibly efficient, high speed vehicle. The question is, can a CVT be made with those specs. The bicycle industry has been around for so long, they have gear technology honed over years of development. Take a look at this bike CVT and tell me why this couldn't be put in the center of a hollow motor. Boom! It would be a match made in EUC heaven!! Ok, I solved the monumental problem. Just send me the lawyers and I'll sign all the patent paperwork to put the CVT into the next EUC design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xiiijojjo Posted March 27, 2021 Share Posted March 27, 2021 Even at 43-46 mph (70-75kmh) which is the safe top speed of my Gotway RS i am battling serious amounts wind resistance. So much so that many times i don't have a long enough stretch of road to even reach safe top speeds. Power pads only increases the length of road i need to reach safe top speed as they effectively limit overly aggressive leaning which i used to always do on the Tesla v1 which has no use for power pads mostly due to the reduced weight and possibly the smaller 16" tire diameter. The increased weight of my RS combined with moving away from an effectively flat country to a mountainous country makes me prefer having power pads to aid in going up steep mountain roads. Without the pads ascending all these steep roads would mean having to do insane amounts of leaning to ascend at a considerably slower pace than i can with power pads. But even in perfect conditions on a flat long road the air resistance becomes so large that if i try to turn my helmet at safe top speed the drag destabilizes me to the point where i can effectively no longer safely turn my head (to look for oncoming cars) to safely switch lanes as that would result in me losing control and wiping out. But even if i installed a helmet mirror or installed a rear camera HUD setup in my helmet removing the need to turn my head the amount of lean required to maintain safe top speeds for a few kilometers are excruciating even to my trained euc legs. One could potentially change the firmware of super fast eucs to make them require less input for the same amount of output if that is even possible, meaning the euc would be more sensitive to input and could accelerate/brake faster with less lean. It could work the other way too - same amount of input more output. I have no idea whether or not this is possible but to me it looks like we have to look in that direction to make these crazy >60mhp speeds feasible on eucs. Personally even past the year 2030 you won't see me going beyond 55mph (90kmh) even if that machine has a potential safe top speed of 110mph (180kmh) as i don't even feel 100% comfortable going 43-46mph (70-75kmh). Also riding at those speeds feels less like riding and more like holding on to dear life and that's coming from a speed demon who has historically ridden just below the 80% beep since he started riding. When i got the Msuper v3 within a week safe top speed was boring to me and i wanted more, then i got the Tesla v1 and same thing happened after less than 1 week i was constantly at just below 80% beeps, after riding the RS for months i have little desire for more top speed and only really want bigger batteries for the ability of prolonged safe top speed. Sure i always push it and i hear the beeps mostly every time i ride but i have to fight to get there and only on long stretches of road can i maintain being just under the 80% beeps. With the power pads on while going up 15 degree or higher inclines i simply cannot get it to beep. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted March 27, 2021 Share Posted March 27, 2021 1 hour ago, xiiijojjo said: Power pads only increases the length of road i need to reach safe top speed as they effectively limit overly aggressive leaning Sounds like your front power pads are too far back. The point of the power pads, just like the name suggests, is to be able to get more power out of the wheel. Yours are doing the opposite. Tuning the positioning for off-road only can do that. 1 hour ago, xiiijojjo said: One could potentially change the firmware of super fast eucs to make them require less input for the same amount of output if that is even possible, meaning the euc would be more sensitive to input and could accelerate/brake faster with less lean. EUCs have had this exact feature for years already. It’s called “soft riding mode”. The effectiveness of the feature of course varies by model. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xiiijojjo Posted March 27, 2021 Share Posted March 27, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, mrelwood said: Sounds like your front power pads are too far back. The point of the power pads, just like the name suggests, is to be able to get more power out of the wheel. Yours are doing the opposite. Tuning the positioning for off-road only can do that. Well if i put them any farther forward they will essentially stick out the front of the euc not attaching properly. So i have moved them as far forward as is possible on the RS. don't get me wrong i can lean aggressively i just can't do the suicide leans i got used to on the Tesla with no power pads. I currently have my RS calibrated at 2 degrees backwards tilt i guess i have to set it to 0 and see how that serves me. I went all the way from +8 degrees to now +2 and have always been used to 0 on my other wheels. I guess all this tinkering with calibration has really helped me out in the end. 3 hours ago, mrelwood said: EUCs have had this exact feature for years already. It’s called “soft riding mode”. The effectiveness of the feature of course varies by model. And for this reason i religiously ride in hard mode i guess what i am requesting is "rock hard" or "diamond" ride mode edit: Just calibrated to 2 degrees forward tilt or -2 as some say and omg. I was hearing beeps from the moment i stepped on there to the moment i got home. I had it all wrong in regards to calibration minus degrees are far superior for acceleration/braking ! Well i'm recharging it to do some more crazy riding see y'all in the ER Edited March 27, 2021 by xiiijojjo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoGeorgeGo Posted March 27, 2021 Share Posted March 27, 2021 (edited) I think price plays a bigger factor than people have brought up also. We already see plenty of uproar over 2000$ machines. 3600$ machines have many people balking. My 5000$ wheel projection has been scoffed at and ridiculed. To make a 60 mph based on some of the input in this thread would undoubtedly be extremely expensive by current standards. I could see a sherman style wheel get up to 5k easy just with higher quality parts and build quality alone. Increasing performance dramatically would, with current market technology, be super expensive. Really excited to see how battery tech evolves the next 15 years Edited March 27, 2021 by GoGeorgeGo 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Rywokast Posted March 27, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted March 27, 2021 lmao at 60 mph you would be blown right off even with zero wind... hitting even the smallest bump would probably cause a violent reaction and deaths... stopping would be horrible... there are no 60 mph eucs because its a stupid idea and no one should ever go that speed on a self balancing one wheeled device... get a scooter or bike if you want to go those speeds and not die, i think even 50 mph is pushing it and already in the fun for a minute but not in any way comfortable speed for eucs.. not to mention as others have said power would have to increase exponentially and price would skyrocket, there would be no market for them since you can already get cheap scooters that can easily and safely do this speed 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Tucker Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 2 hours ago, Rywokast said: ... there are no 60 mph eucs because its a stupid idea and no one should ever go that speed on a self balancing one wheeled device... Many people said the same about 30mph 6 years ago. In the next ten years improvements in software, battery tech, and suspension will definitely allow for safe seated riding at 65mph. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Kim Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 3 hours ago, Rywokast said: lmao at 60 mph you would be blown right off even with zero wind... hitting even the smallest bump would probably cause a violent reaction and deaths... stopping would be horrible... there are no 60 mph eucs because its a stupid idea and no one should ever go that speed on a self balancing one wheeled device... get a scooter or bike if you want to go those speeds and not die, i think even 50 mph is pushing it and already in the fun for a minute but not in any way comfortable speed for eucs.. not to mention as others have said power would have to increase exponentially and price would skyrocket, there would be no market for them since you can already get cheap scooters that can easily and safely do this speed it’s not about going 60 mph, it’s about having so much headroom that it would be next to impossible to cutout. I’d like to go 50 mph without always thinking in the back of my head I’m close to cutting out. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post mrelwood Posted March 28, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted March 28, 2021 10 hours ago, xiiijojjo said: And for this reason i religiously ride in hard mode i guess what i am requesting is "rock hard" or "diamond" ride mode You got it the wrong way around though. If you want more acceleration for less effort, you need to switch into a softer mode. The harder the Mode, the more you have to work to get the wheel to accelerate and brake. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gon2fast Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 55-60 MPH on a wheel versus wind/bumps/sudden stops... not for me, but more power to the resource who can safely figure it out. Will probably need to update my auto insurance when that happens as there is no way a driver can really react to a standing human being crossing their path at 60MPH. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..... Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 (edited) 46 minutes ago, gon2fast said: 55-60 MPH on a wheel versus wind/bumps/sudden stops... not for me, but more power to the resource who can safely figure it out. Will probably need to update my auto insurance when that happens as there is no way a driver can really react to a standing human being crossing their path at 60MPH. who said anything about safely? Why on earth would you want to cloud it and make it even more difficult? We all know how a driver would react. If they even looked up from their ipads/phones to see it, they'd stare as they ran you over. You know, same basic reaction you'd get if only going 20mph. However, at 60mph, if you survived it, you could turn around and kamikazee their ass and take a nice chunk outta their car in retaliation. Mad max style ftw!! Edited March 28, 2021 by ShanesPlanet 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gon2fast Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 12 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said: they'd stare as they ran you over. and figure out a way to hold you liable LOL 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Kim Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 2 hours ago, mrelwood said: You got it the wrong way around though. If you want more acceleration for less effort, you need to switch into a softer mode. The harder the Mode, the more you have to work to get the wheel to accelerate and brake. Someone who understands how inertia works... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
..... Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 35 minutes ago, Ben Kim said: Someone who understands how inertia works... Still makes little sense to me. I just stay on medium mode so it doesnt matter either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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