California's Law for Electric Unicycle

[mike_bike_kite]

Why antagonise others? just find another route.

[gon2fast]

I have been riding trails on EUCs for years. Most folks out on the trails are very receptive. As mentioned above, politeness and giving the right-of-way at all times is required. If folks get aggravated then I leave and come back another day.  There is no antagonization, sometimes you run across people who want to be hostile. 

[Esash]

Tell them it's a wind up toy with no motor. 

 

[Obee]

On 3/31/2022 at 8:38 PM, UniBlab said:

Carry copies of the attached file and hand them out to anyone that give scrutiny - and Tawpie is correct - you don't have to disclose any disability.

"Choice of Device - People with disabilities have the right to choose whatever mobility device best suits their needs."

 

opdmd.pdf 2.57 MB · 11 downloads

I would really discourage this tactic. 

It is an abuse of rules designed to help the disabled.  

It's also clear that you are abusing the rules just like any lady with a poodle in a diner claiming the dog is an emotional support animal.  Nobody is fooled by that. 

By using this tactic you destroy your own credibility and erode good will.  The person you use this tactic on will judge you as non-credible and also will also likely feel insulted that you would believe them to be dumb enough to believe you. 

As to "no motorized vehicle" signs, my view is that they were not made with electric unicycles in mind, and since that leaves a grey area it's my job to advocate that they ARE allowed. (if you could argue either way, and you surely could argue either way, why would you argue against your own cause?)

In support of this view I have just one piece of research.  

Living in NH the state laws regarding motor vehicles would put an EUC in the category of a OHRV (off highway recreational vehicle) which is certainly a mismatch from it's intended meaning IF you chose to see an EUC as a motor vehicle.

The town of Manchester NH has some rules about PEVs which has a section I highlighted which I believe is the relevant opinion. 

"Motorized scooters are not considered motorized vehicles per NH motor vehicles laws".

And my reasoning is that what is true for a scooter is true for an EUC in this regard.

That's my law argument.

Otherwise I agree with courtesy, respectful operation, and essentially "don't make no problem, won't be no problem".

 

[UniBlab]

Yeah, in retrospect my advice was really poor - apologies to the group. Wasn't helpful at all. Thanks guys.

[Hyperion]

4 hours ago, Obee said:

I would really discourage this tactic. 

It is an abuse of rules designed to help the disabled.  

It's also clear that you are abusing the rules just like any lady with a poodle in a diner claiming the dog is an emotional support animal.  Nobody is fooled by that. 

By using this tactic you destroy your own credibility and erode good will.  The person you use this tactic on will judge you as non-credible and also will also likely feel insulted that you would believe them to be dumb enough to believe you. 

As to "no motorized vehicle" signs, my view is that they were not made with electric unicycles in mind, and since that leaves a grey area it's my job to advocate that they ARE allowed. (if you could argue either way, and you surely could argue either way, why would you argue against your own cause?)

In support of this view I have just one piece of research.  

Living in NH the state laws regarding motor vehicles would put an EUC in the category of a OHRV (off highway recreational vehicle) which is certainly a mismatch from it's intended meaning IF you chose to see an EUC as a motor vehicle.

The town of Manchester NH has some rules about PEVs which has a section I highlighted which I believe is the relevant opinion. 

"Motorized scooters are not considered motorized vehicles per NH motor vehicles laws".

And my reasoning is that what is true for a scooter is true for an EUC in this regard.

That's my law argument.

Otherwise I agree with courtesy, respectful operation, and essentially "don't make no problem, won't be no problem".

 

The state of New Hampshire actually goes out of its way in the motor vehicle laws to label us not a vehicle and with "rights and duties of pedestrians". As long as it's below 20mph.  The law was even modified to add "regardless of the number of wheels" from requiring "2 non-tandem-wheeled" in older versions. 

 

I feel comfortable riding 'no motor vehicle' trails in NH. 

 

https://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/XXI/269/269-mrg.htm

 

 

[Obee]

Again though, an EUC is not an ELECTRIC PERSONAL ASSISTIVE MOBILITY DEVICE.

That's the kind of device the folks who have trouble walking use.

Any good one will also go too fast to fit that definition. 

I think we can stay within the bounds of reasonable argument and still make a case for being legal.

Its certainly a grey area.  I just feel that certain arguments meant to help us actually hurt us.  Like claiming an EUC is an assistive mobility device. 

[mhpr262]

Nobody has ever objected to me riding my unicycle on bike paths or through forests, and thats in a country where people just love to play unpaid Sheriff's deputy. EUCs are small, unobtrusive and extremely quiet. As long as you dont ride liek a dick you can get away with a LOT.

Btw IMO "appropriate speed" for a trail doesnt mean you can stop before you hit somebody - it measn that you can stop so far in front of somebody that you dont give them a scare. Thats two ENTIRELY different things.

[Hyperion]

15 minutes ago, Obee said:

Again though, an EUC is not an ELECTRIC PERSONAL ASSISTIVE MOBILITY DEVICE.

That's the kind of device the folks who have trouble walking use.

Any good one will also go too fast to fit that definition. 

I think we can stay within the bounds of reasonable argument and still make a case for being legal.

Its certainly a grey area.  I just feel that certain arguments meant to help us actually hurt us.  Like claiming an EUC is an assistive mobility device. 

But that's not true of New Hampshire. The wording of the law is clear as is its original context.  That law was for the original segways.  Hardly intended for folks with disabilities. 

 

As for speed... If the ebike folks can get away with limiting in software then so can we.  If the trail is posted (and you care) set the limit to 20.

[gon2fast]

42 minutes ago, mhpr262 said:

Btw IMO "appropriate speed" for a trail doesnt mean you can stop before you hit somebody - it measn that you can stop so far in front of somebody that you dont give them a scare.

Very good point. This also very important when approaching horses on the trails. You need to stop and dismount (lay your wheel down) as soon as you see a horse. It is also good to remove your helmet as well. Horses can get spooked/scared very easily and then the rider is put at risk.

[mhpr262]

On 4/7/2022 at 10:05 PM, gon2fast said:

Very good point. This also very important when approaching horses on the trails. You need to stop and dismount (lay your wheel down) as soon as you see a horse. It is also good to remove your helmet as well. Horses can get spooked/scared very easily and then the rider is put at risk.

Strangely enough all horses I have encountered on my EUC so far have been extremely chill about it. At most they stand still and eye the the wheel warily for a couple of seconds, then  walk on. Horses on a pasture usually wont even stop grazing when I ride past them. Now dogs on the other hand...

Edited April 9, 2022 by mhpr262

[Miko.cz]

When I ride to or around horse, enough was always to let horse and rider know about me, do not make a sudden movement, stay in walk speed (+-) and keep some distance & have patience. Riders were always cooperative and nice when they saw Im trying to be carefull too. We are all particularly sharing paths with horses with hobby riders, policeman etc. Fortunatelly no conflicts/accidents known to me, yet.

[gon2fast]

9 hours ago, mhpr262 said:

Now dogs on the other hand...

Yeah, if I see a dog off leash on the trails I turn around. It is not worth getting bit or potentially injuring the dog. Pretty much all of the local trails in my area require leashes, but most people ignore that rule. 

Edited April 8, 2022 by gon2fast
no excuses

[AngryJackPCB]

14 hours ago, mhpr262 said:

Strangely enough all horses I have encountered on my EUC so far have been extremely chill about it. At most they stand still any eye the the wheel warily for a couple of seconds, then  walk on. Horses on a pasture usually wont even stop grazing when I ride past them. Now dogs on the other hand...

You're right. I ride past horses in a pasture and they don't bat an eye. But I'd sure hate to be responsible for causing an injury to the rider if a horse did spook. 

[RayRay]

Horses can get spooked, don't take them for granted. (Dogs too... plus they bite!)

As for people, any person can be threatened by euc's for any reason; (and be very vocal about it.)

Park Rangers can interpret the rules however they like; best not to argue if you think: "I gots rights".

(The wheels we ride nowadays are faster than any "sensible" lawmaker would consider legitimizing.)

 

[halenajulie]

On 4/1/2022 at 7:29 AM, gon2fast said:

I went to get pictures of the old signs that were posted at the trails near my house and they have been removed or painted over*

"No motorized vehicles" sign removed. There were other entrances altered in the same way

The sign next to the dog poop instructions used to be the no motorized vehicle sign.

Hopefully the city/county is starting to adapt to the influx of PEVs. 

 

* looks like the local youth may have added some paint to it as well LOL 

so good pictures:)

[gon2fast]

3 hours ago, RayRay said:

Horses can get spooked, don't take them for granted.

Two scenarios I can think off from my years living on a ranch with horses, but no EUCS, is rider on or off horse (spooked). 

If the rider is on the horse and it is spooked by something foreign to it the rider could be bucked off of the horse. 

If the rider is off of the horse and it is spooked an infinite amount of mayhem can happen. 

be polite.

[Scottie]

On 4/7/2022 at 3:16 PM, Obee said:

Again though, an EUC is not an ELECTRIC PERSONAL ASSISTIVE MOBILITY DEVICE.

That's the kind of device the folks who have trouble walking use.

+1 here. This is the primary reason I learned to ride. When I saw one, I knew it was the solution for my problem. There are a good number of us on the Forum that are the same on this. 

I can stand with the best of them, but walking distances irritates my knees. I am not a wheelchair candidate. So I picked an EUC as my Electric Personal Assistive Mobility Device (EPAMD). The EUC is still in a grey area in most locations about being an EPAMD. I think I read somewhere that Texas includes the EUC, so there is at least some precedent.

------------------------------------------------------------------

But now, back to my main reason for posting here, I just saw this video and felt it needed to go somewhere on the Forum. This person is big in the electric car scene, but here she is branching into our territory ... well almost ... but still worth a watch since she investigates personal electric mobility laws world-wide.

 

[Breadsticks]

Remember, gas vehicles have engines, were the ones on motors. You’re cool to take a gas powered wheel!

[TantasStarke]

My take is to ride respectfully, and if you get asked to leave, just leave and come back another day.

I believe EUC can be EPAMD depending on the rider, just like Scottie said. I'd argue mine is in certain situations. Walking distances more than a half mile or so destroys my knees due to a previous injury, but I can ride my EUC for miles upon miles.

It also depends on the laws for the state. For instance in Florida an EPAMD has to be a "two-nontandem-wheeled device", so unfortunately by that exact definition an EUC wouldn't fit. They also stipulate 750w motor, and 20mph top speed which 99% of modern EUC's won't fit into (mostly because of the motor power requirement)

I just checked and it seems it is the same for my state of New York as well. The laws for EPAMD seem to be centered around self balancing two wheeled vehicles, aka segways.

Funnily enough in Florida an EUC could be argued as a 'Motorized Scooter" as an electric scooter in FL only requires: 3 or less wheels, and 20mph top speed on level ground

http://leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0300-0399/0316/Sections/0316.003.html Ctrl+F "(24) for EPAMD and "(48)" for Motorized Scooter.

https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/laws/VAT/114-D

Edited April 11, 2022 by TantasStarke
Gave quicker instructions for the florida laws

[Sprite]

On 3/31/2022 at 5:27 PM, Tawpie said:

Tell them it's your personal assistive mobility device, allowed by the Americans With Disabilities act. An electric wheelchair is allowed... The wheel isn't gas powered so the tree huggers (I'm one of those BTW) are happy... less pissed. If they get nasty, apologize and retreat... on foot.

Mostly don't go ripping by them with any kind of speed... I dismount and wait for horses to pass, and announce myself to all feet people with a cheery "good morning! I'm going to sneak by on your left".

Act like you belong.

You don't have to disclose your disability BTW, HIPAA rules.

Assuming you have a disability, this is the correct answer here. Seeing that it's Marin county there's a good chance OP will get hassled.

Just as Tawpie said, don't ride like a dick. If someone tires to give you shit I would just ignore them and keep riding unless it's some type of LEO then you can tell them it's a mobility device.

Edited April 11, 2022 by Sprite

[gon2fast]

2 hours ago, TantasStarke said:

if you get asked to leave, just leave and come back another day.

Kind of a gray area for me, I guess it depends on how much I like the trail. When I got harassed by the people on horseback at the Regional Park 10 minutes from my house I stayed away for at least a month. Ironically I found several other spots while I was laying low and really do not ride at the original spot anymore.

The other issue I have is with Park Rangers. I avoid them like the plague for the very reason of not getting the cease & desist order from them, which I will have to abide by. A few weeks back I checked out a new Regional Park and near the end of my ride I noticed some people that were loading up horses pointing at me. I was up a hill looking down at them maybe 300 yards away. Did a small loop and went back to my car to depart. As I was leaving a Ranger truck was coming in and the driver was scanning the area. I think that someone reported me or I could be a paranoid idiot, neither is good LOL.    

[gon2fast]

3 minutes ago, Sprite said:

Seeing that it's Marin county there's a good chance OP will get hassled.

There were two hikers and a dog off leash at the trailhead. They were already staring me down while I was on the street. I turned around and went the opposite direction knowing what would happen next LOL.

[Sprite]

Just now, gon2fast said:

There were two hikers and a dog off leash at the trailhead. They were already staring me down while I was on the street. I turned around and went the opposite direction knowing what would happen next LOL.

Haha, Marin county people really do live in a different world though. I have a GoPro always recording whenever I'm riding just in case I run into a Karen or whatever. I'm not gonna go out looking for trouble or purposely agitate people and I think it's a good idea to have a objective video evidence if I have an encounter... or if I eat shit or something, it's always fun to have footage of that.

[gon2fast]

I do plan on investing in a GoPro of some sorts (used), but preferably mounted to my shoulder or wheel. I am not coordinated enough to ride around with a camera in hand (it is that pat your head and rub your stomach at the same time gene that I lack).