Technical Riding help wanted

[Daley1]

If riding down a very steep hill at speed and I hit tiltback and I lean back hard to drop more speed ,can I overpower my wheel ,causing it to fail and dump me on my ass?

[FlyboyEUC]

I was asked this question today also. Has a wheel ever cut out on a steep downhill? i.e. gravity was greater than the "braking power" @Marty Backe @Kuji Rolls @Smoother @Rehab1 @Lutalo (tagged people who might know)

Edited May 28, 2019 by Flyboy10

[Lutalo]

30 minutes ago, Flyboy10 said:

I was asked this question today also. Has a wheel ever cut out on a steep downhill? i.e. gravity was greater than the "braking power" @Marty Backe @Kuji Rolls @Smoother @Rehab1 @Lutalo (tagged people who might know)

Not to me. I have received great Regen benefits from it though. 

[Chriull]

1 hour ago, Daley1 said:

If riding down a very steep hill at speed and I hit tiltback and I lean back hard to drop more speed ,can I overpower my wheel ,causing it to fail and dump me on my ass?

A tiltback is the only way beside beeping  and voice alarms how a wheel can tell you to brake! So whenever you encouter a tiltback get slower.

In earlier days wheels often used to fry their mosfets if one braked too hard. Today they survive this (?normally?), but still one can ask too much braking and overlean backwards, as one can do while driving forward "asking" too much acceleration. 

One can overheat the wheel braking too long and too much, leading to tiltback and then ?shutdown?.

One can overcharge the wheel braking too long, leading to tiltback and then ?shutdown?.

And if i remember/understood right the reports from @Marty Backe the Z10 can just stop braking? Or gives one at least this feeling?

[Unventor]

2 hours ago, Daley1 said:

If riding down a very steep hill at speed and I hit tiltback and I lean back hard to drop more speed ,can I overpower my wheel ,causing it to fail and dump me on my ass?

I would imagine that going over the limit climbing eg 30 degrees could cause the wheel to loose the ability to "balance". 

Another scenario is if battery is so high charged that you cannot feedback the breaking generated power anywhere. 

If I understood this right, this is part reason for Z10 downhill is an issue as it only recharge 1 of the 2 battery packs. 

Next scenario is if you ride downhill on such a slope the wheel loose traction....

In other words think of what you would expect the wheel can handle. It is just a wheel, not a god defining physics laws. 

[Marty Backe]

1 hour ago, Flyboy10 said:

I was asked this question today also. Has a wheel ever cut out on a steep downhill? i.e. gravity was greater than the "braking power" @Marty Backe @Kuji Rolls @Smoother @Rehab1 @Lutalo (tagged people who might know)

I have personally seen a wheel dump a rider while going down hill. Not a cutout, but it didn't have the power to slowly go down the very steep incline, so the rider ended up on his butt and wheel went over the side of the hill (cliff).

1 hour ago, Chriull said:

A tiltback is the only way beside beeping  and voice alarms how a wheel can tell you to brake! So whenever you encouter a tiltback get slower.

In earlier days wheels often used to fry their mosfets if one braked too hard. Today they survive this (?normally?), but still one can ask too much braking and overlean backwards, as one can do while driving forward "asking" too much acceleration. 

One can overheat the wheel braking too long and too much, leading to tiltback and then ?shutdown?.

One can overcharge the wheel braking too long, leading to tiltback and then ?shutdown?.

And if i remember/understood right the reports from @Marty Backe the Z10 can just stop braking? Or gives one at least this feeling?

Yes, the Z10 feels like it doesn't have the power to keep you from descending a very steep hill in a controlled fashion. Not enjoyable at all.

[Smoother]

On 5/28/2019 at 12:48 PM, Daley1 said:

If riding down a very steep hill at speed and I hit tiltback and I lean back hard to drop more speed ,can I overpower my wheel ,causing it to fail and dump me on my ass?

EDIT, not a direct answer to your question but....

if you hit tilt back while braking you are going to end up on your ass unless you are quick and flexible and can jump off.  The reason is, you already have most of your weight on your heels and you are leaning back.  When tilt back cuts in, the back of the pedals fall away rapidly from under your heels and you fall back quickly, all the while you are still descending the steep hill. It happened to me due to overcharged batteries from a lot of regen ( I had been descending for several minutes on pretty full batteries).  In my case there was little warning; the beeps started about the same time as the tilt back. I wasn't going fast so I stayed upright, just, but if you don't manage to get a hand on the wheel it could turn into a missile on the hill.

Edited May 31, 2019 by Smoother

[Smoother]

19 hours ago, Chriull said:

One can overcharge the wheel braking too long, leading to tilt back and then ?shutdown?

In other words, exactly this. What did  I do next?  I cycled the power switch, which brought the pedals level, then I continued down the hill, only this time I made sure to use power rather than generate it.  Hell there was 1/2 a mile to go to the bottom, and I wasn't going to carry that thing. 

[Mono]

On 5/28/2019 at 1:48 PM, Daley1 said:

If riding down a very steep hill at speed and I hit tiltback and I lean back hard to drop more speed ,can I overpower my wheel ,causing it to fail and dump me on my ass?

It most likely depends on the wheel you are riding. For some wheels the answer is definitely yes.

 

[uekarashi]

1 hour ago, Mono said:

It most likely depends on the wheel you are riding. For some wheels the answer is definitely yes.

 

those are killer reflexes though, lovely recovery! 

[Mono]

2 hours ago, uekarashi said:

those are killer reflexes though, lovely recovery! 

yesss (not me though)

Edited May 31, 2019 by Mono