travsformation Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 So...downvotes... I haven't found any posts on the subject, but there seems to be an implicit, unspoken consensus on the subject, so I thought...why not start a thread about it? (Or in other words, I'm supposed to be working and couldn't think of a better excuse to procrastinate ) I rarely see them used in this forum, so I've pretty much drawn my own conclusions on how/when to use them or not, although they can clearly be interpreted in a number of ways. A downvote could be as simple and harmless as "I don't agree", or it could be seen as harsh / "this shit is gettin' real". The general dynamic I've observed is that disagreements don't usually warrant a downvote, but rather lengthy debates that go off-topic and turn into other debates that, in turn, sidetrack themselves My take (this is just me) is that differing opinions are a given in this forum, and the rarity of downvotes reflects how aware we all are of that fact, and is something we should be happy about and proud of, in the sense that we're a mature/adult community (in the sense of civility and mutual respect, don't get me wrong ), where diversity of opinions is respected and disagreements aren't (generally) perceived as something negative. Since I joined the forum, I've yet to see a moderator have to intervene, which attests to that fact (or the moderators' laziness ) My personal take is that downvotes should be reserved for posts that cross a line and are outright disrespectful. And even then, I'd probably only downvote someone who was rude or disrespectful to me personally; I don't see myself taking sides by downvoting in another man's fight, unless, perhaps, a post were in direct violation of the forum's rules (hate speech, etc.). What do you guys think? Edit: I clearly forgot ironic / fun-poking uses. Should I delete this thread before my downvote count goes through the roof and I'm expelled from the forum? Don't you even dare!!! I'll report you to @Rehab1, who I'm sure will ban you immediately (after downvoting this post himself) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ir_fuel Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travsformation Posted March 25, 2019 Author Share Posted March 25, 2019 4 minutes ago, ir_fuel said: I was wondering who the first one would be! I'd even mentioned it in the post but decided to remove it to not encourage you cheaky b*stards! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 There should be a way to revoke your own down vote, one that you have put on someone. I would think ten hours to ever put a down vote, even in a case of disrespectful comment (and it has happened). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Sacristan Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 I have recently started posting to reddit and after a while I felt that I needed to get acquainted with the whole upvote/downvote thing. I don't think the community is that large for us to be filtering out posts or sorting them by upvote/downvote. I am also pretty sure that everybody reads just about everything on this forum and that they do so in chronological order. Upvoting/downvoting purpose is to sort content by "what's hot or not". This is already built into this forum on the right bar as well as the latest updates. The way I have used this forum is that if I particularly like something or want to encourage something/someone then I give them a like. The like is also there to show that I have read the content so they don't think they are talking to themselves. Which we sometimes are. https://www.reddit.com/r/TheoryOfReddit/comments/1lpws2/what_does_it_really_mean_to_upvotedownvote_a_post/ https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/90jd0r/cmv_reddits_upvotedownvote_system_discourages/ Here is the subreddit for EUC. Compare the content by choosing sort order by HOT vs Newest. The content will be quite similar because it is a rather dead subreddit.https://www.reddit.com/r/ElectricUnicycle/ Then compare it to this reddit. https://www.reddit.com/r/ElectricSkateboarding If it would be a very busy sub then I can understand the purpose of sorting by rank because this means that the "best" content would float to the top. So far all the discussions that I have seen here have been of value. Even if there have been arguments here and there. We can take the "why are there so many few female riders" thread. It has turned into a circus with very little relevant material to the topic. If we would use content rating and content sorting in that thread and then view it chronologically while hiding or "muting" low ranked content (which would hopefully be the off-topic content) then we would be presented with more relevant content in that thread. But again... it's a small community and all this means is that we scroll a bit faster through such content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 3 minutes ago, Mike Sacristan said: It has turned into a circus with very little relevant material to the topic. 110% in agreement, for me it was precisely about settling issues rather than down voting someone that previously was disrespectful and insensitive. I am sincerely sorry to have subjected the forum members to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockyTop Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 I reserve my down votes for people that are intentionally dishonest or hateful. I can’t fault people for having opinions. Although,... I am glad that Ir_fuel beat me to the to the down vote. I like irony and travsformation so it would have been a struggle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanghamP Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 I don't think there's a reward for getting upvotes, nor is there a penalty for getting downvotes, for that matter. So I rarely give votes. You can't cash them in like frequent fire miles. One big problem about downvotes is that people most often use them as a shorthand for something they disagree on without actually maning up and explaining why they disagree. These are examples of juvenile behavior because they say nothing. --Downvotes. --You don't know what you are talking about. In my opinion, downvotes should be used only for something you agree with but do not like, because any other usage is simply a shorthand for a disagreement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 3 hours ago, pico said: There should be a way to revoke your own down vote, one that you have put on someone. One can - just as with upvotes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travsformation Posted March 25, 2019 Author Share Posted March 25, 2019 1 hour ago, Chriull said: One can - just as with upvotes. @pico, just click on the "x" that appears when you hover the mouse over your vote (a "Remove reaction" prompt appears next to it): (I couldn't help myself from using @ir_fuel's post as an example) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travsformation Posted March 25, 2019 Author Share Posted March 25, 2019 8 hours ago, Mike Sacristan said: I have recently started posting to reddit and after a while I felt that I needed to get acquainted with the whole upvote/downvote thing. I don't think the community is that large for us to be filtering out posts or sorting them by upvote/downvote. I am also pretty sure that everybody reads just about everything on this forum and that they do so in chronological order. Upvoting/downvoting purpose is to sort content by "what's hot or not". This is already built into this forum on the right bar as well as the latest updates. The way I have used this forum is that if I particularly like something or want to encourage something/someone then I give them a like. The like is also there to show that I have read the content so they don't think they are talking to themselves. Which we sometimes are. https://www.reddit.com/r/TheoryOfReddit/comments/1lpws2/what_does_it_really_mean_to_upvotedownvote_a_post/ https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/90jd0r/cmv_reddits_upvotedownvote_system_discourages/ Here is the subreddit for EUC. Compare the content by choosing sort order by HOT vs Newest. The content will be quite similar because it is a rather dead subreddit.https://www.reddit.com/r/ElectricUnicycle/ Then compare it to this reddit. https://www.reddit.com/r/ElectricSkateboarding If it would be a very busy sub then I can understand the purpose of sorting by rank because this means that the "best" content would float to the top. So far all the discussions that I have seen here have been of value. Even if there have been arguments here and there. We can take the "why are there so many few female riders" thread. It has turned into a circus with very little relevant material to the topic. If we would use content rating and content sorting in that thread and then view it chronologically while hiding or "muting" low ranked content (which would hopefully be the off-topic content) then we would be presented with more relevant content in that thread. But again... it's a small community and all this means is that we scroll a bit faster through such content. I'm familiar with reddit content rating, but since it isn't used in this forum, I must have subconsciously viewed/treated upvotes, downvotes & likes differently. I guess I switched from reddit-style voting to my own interpretation of votes when joining this forum. I view upvotes and likes as a symbolic way of agreeing with the content of a post, either because I have nothing to add but want to convey my concurrence, or as you said, to acknowledge someone's post so they don't think they're just talking to themselves Thanks for the links, it's been quite a while since I've been on reddit and it was interesting to see revisit and see the difference between newest vs. hot sorting. BTW, I couldn't help but laugh at your "hiding or "muting" low ranked content (which would hopefully be the off-topic content)" comment. Knowing this forum, who knows what off-topic subject would be presented as most relevant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travsformation Posted March 25, 2019 Author Share Posted March 25, 2019 4 hours ago, RockyTop said: I am glad that Ir_fuel beat me to the to the down vote. I like irony and travsformation so it would have been a struggle. hahaha BTW, likewise! And as to ir_fuel....either he doesn't like me, or the downvote was just waaaaaaaay too tempting (or both) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travsformation Posted March 25, 2019 Author Share Posted March 25, 2019 6 hours ago, LanghamP said: I don't think there's a reward for getting upvotes, nor is there a penalty for getting downvotes, for that matter. Not that I know of, no. Since there's no content ranking, I guess they're just symbolic. 6 hours ago, LanghamP said: You can't cash them in like frequent fire miles. Frequent FIRE miles? Hahahahahah you made my day! (and for that, you get a big, symbolic, non-cashable, non--refundable blue heart) 6 hours ago, LanghamP said: One big problem about downvotes is that people most often use them as a shorthand for something they disagree on without actually maning up and explaining why they disagree. Could be. I couldn't say though, I haven't really seen many downvotes. I guess it depends on the context, why the person downvoted, what their approach to downvoting is (Disagreement? Offence? Anger?), etc. In some cases, perhaps it could be seen as a "cheap shot/way out", as you said. In others, it might be a way of expressing strong disagreement without contributing to escalation (as in "That's completely out of line, I want to convey that, but I'd better not explain why...") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Sacristan Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 8 hours ago, pico said: 110% in agreement, for me it was precisely about settling issues rather than down voting someone that previously was disrespectful and insensitive. I am sincerely sorry to have subjected the forum members to that. You have nothing to be sorry about! That thread is one of the hottest threads on here now! I don't care if people want to post tanks or tricks. It's all good info and valuable. 2 hours ago, travsformation said: BTW, I couldn't help but laugh at your "hiding or "muting" low ranked content (which would hopefully be the off-topic content)" comment. Knowing this forum, who knows what off-topic subject would be presented as most relevant Haha awesome. Glad you found it funny! I still think the posts are valuable though! And with upvoting/downvoting rules then hygiene would come on it's own if using a filtered view. Which I would never use. Until the amounts of data became overwhelming. Not a problem for this forum except now and then when me and Unventor start talking about our cats or something like that in the big fat video thread and 75 people are following it hoping for some new content only to see two people chatting. 2 hours ago, travsformation said: Frequent FIRE miles? Hahahahahah you made my day! (and for that, you get a big, symbolic, non-cashable, non--refundable blue heart) Phew okay it wasn't just me then. Yeah that one killed me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 13 hours ago, travsformation said: Should I delete this thread before my downvote count goes through the roof and I'm expelled from the forum? Don't you even dare!!! I'll report you to @Rehab1, who I'm sure will ban you immediately (after downvoting this post himself) No downvote here. No banning either. 99.9% of the forum members are very polite and courteous. I love it when a member realizes that they may have overstepped the civil boundaries and then reach out to offer a sincere apology. There are always going to be posts on the forum that members wish could be rephrased or taken back. My advice is to try and offer some constructive advice before downvoting an individual. If you compare the EUC Forum to other online venues you will find that we are truly blessed thanks to the founder John Eucist and the other moderators that invest their time and efforts to keep this well cared for clock always running smoothly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanghamP Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 6 hours ago, travsformation said: guess it depends on the context, why the person downvoted, what their approach to downvoting is (Disagreement? Offence? If you're fighting someone with even a bit of emotions with electric unicycles then you're probably at a very bad place in your life. Like I can see someone who went through a divorce or family death being a bit upset, so one would be inclined to be a bit understanding. Even in the open forum, I think people are still quite polite and unemotional, and I think that comes from most of us being male, older and somewhat affluent, most with science backgrounds, and most of us not on antidepressants (for some odd reason I know a lot of people on antidepressants, much more so than 20 years ago). I suppose @travsformation and I could talk about uncivilized savages, if we need some action on the forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leyline Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 what about a downvote to disagree because the content would cause harm, like “naw you don’t need a helmet at all” cause i might have to disagree in that one, and downvote it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
who_the Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 Not sure which version of Invision this forum is running, but the current version (4.2 and higher) support five new "reactions" out of the box (Like, Thanks, Confused, Sad, Haha). Custom "reactions" can be added by administrators too. https://invisioncommunity.com/news/product-updates/new-reactions-r1016/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travsformation Posted March 26, 2019 Author Share Posted March 26, 2019 13 hours ago, Mike Sacristan said: upvoting/downvoting rules then hygiene would come on it's own if using a filtered view. Which I would never use. Until the amounts of data became overwhelming. It would be nice to have the option, should one want to read only the relevant content in a highly de-railed thread. Then again, this forums isn't that big, people know each other, and I don't mind reading through off-topic subjects, conversations about cats or photoshopped pics of Marty Backe or TFU's workshop 11 hours ago, Rehab1 said: No downvote here. No banning either. Thanks for not encouraging the rascals! 11 hours ago, Rehab1 said: 99.9% of the forum members are very polite and courteous. I love it when a member realizes that they may have overstepped the civil boundaries and then reach out to offer a sincere apology. Yeah, me too. Kudos to @pico ! 11 hours ago, Rehab1 said: My advice is to try and offer some constructive advice before downvoting an individual. If you compare the EUC Forum to other online venues you will find that we are truly blessed thanks to the founder John Eucist and the other moderators that invest their time and efforts to keep this well cared for clock always running smoothly. 100% in agreement on both fronts! And cheers to the mods for devoting their to to make this place what it is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
travsformation Posted March 26, 2019 Author Share Posted March 26, 2019 14 hours ago, LanghamP said: Even in the open forum, I think people are still quite polite and unemotional, and I think that comes from most of us being male, older and somewhat affluent, most with science backgrounds, and most of us not on antidepressants (for some odd reason I know a lot of people on antidepressants, much more so than 20 years ago). I suppose @travsformation and I could talk about uncivilized savages, if we need some action on the forums. That's a perfect example of content I'd be tempted to downvote. You're statement implicitly suggests that women, people who are less affluent, and people with non-scientific backgrounds (the implication being...less rational, I infer) are less polite and more emotionally inclined (and unstable? Based on the antidepressant comment ). To me, that type of comment isn't appropriate for this forum. And before you back your comment with socio-economic stats and evolutionary biology (), allow me to explain why: it's not about being politically correct or not voicing one's opinion, but about making the forum welcoming to EVERYONE. Comments like that could be offensive to anyone who is neither affluent nor a male. Then we wonder why there are so few women in the forum... We could argue that we're all adults and anyone who takes offence can easily reply to comments like that explaining why they don't feel they're appropriate, but...where do we draw the line between acceptable and inacceptable? What if you'd said "I think that comes from most of us being male, older, somewhat affluent, white and Christian" ? Which leads me to uncivilized savages. Granted, our rants can definitely add some action to the forum (we even have our very own off-topic thread on the subject ), but on a serious note, to me, posting comments like that in general discussion threads is WAY out of line. Chiefly, because your definition of uncivilized savages (I don't mean to delve into this again, but have to provide some context to get to my point) includes anyone who's not from an English-speaking or Western European country. My point being, comments like that are (in my opinion) extremely insensitive, rude and offensive to anyone outside your boundaries of the civilized world, and are therefore contrary to the forum's general tone of respect and politeness. With other topics that people get worked up about, whether a comment is objectionable or not is fairly relative and limited to the person being quoted ("You don't know what you're talking about. The BMS..."). But someone who falls under your definition of an uncivilized savage would be rightfully offended. Which is why comments like that are (again, in my opinion) contrary to the forum's generally welcoming tone of inclusiveness and respect. I'm not saying you don't have the right to voice your opinion on the subject, I'm just questioning whether this forum is the right place to do so. But back to downvotes (I just surprised myself by circling back on-topic ), having taken the time to express why I personally feel that certain remarks are out of place / not appropriate for this particular forum, I can see the point in downvoting certain comments. If I come across any future comments that fall in the same category, I don't think it's worth delving into the subject every single time, boring other members with lengthy off-topic discussions on whether something is appropriate or not (like I did in the previous paragraph ), or starting a new thread every time you say something I deem offensive. So in that sense, perhaps downvotes can be useful in certain situations, used as a "I don't agree with this at all, for the reasons I've previously explained". As long, of course, as the subject has already been discussed in the past and both parties are aware of the reason/context for the downvote. Edit/Addendum: I posted this here because it's relevant to the thread's topic, but did consider sending a PM instead, as it felt more tactful. But in my experience, people behave differently in public forums and than in private messages, and I've seen arguments escalate in PMs in ways and at speeds they never would have in public threads, so I'm very reluctant to settle disagreements in private conversations. Just thought I'd clarify that I'm not trying to single or call anyone out in a malicious way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 9 hours ago, Leyline said: what about a downvote to disagree because the content would cause harm, like “naw you don’t need a helmet at all” cause i might have to disagree in that one, and downvote it. There was a video posted not long ago on the forum that I perceived was erratic riding that was endangering a mother and her infant on a sidewalk. I almost downvoted the member but decided to express my concerns first. It turned out that the video’s camera angle created this ominous illusion and the member went onto clarify that no one was in danger. I believe it is more beneficial to reach out to a member first and state your concerns and then wait for a response before considering a downvote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockyTop Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 I pride myself in trying to understanding the lives and perceptions of the people around me. In my city alone this is impossible. Cultures and living conditions can very drastically in a very small area. This forum is world wide. It can be very easy to misinterpret other people’s comments. I tell myself that if I had walked in their shoes all my life I might agree with them. If all I listened to is the “ fill in the blank” news network or only ever heard one side of a story I would feel the same way. If I saw the same thing happen every day I would have strong feelings on the subject too. I try to remind myself that I and most people only seeing a small piece of the puzzle. It can be very hard to make things better and easy to make them worse. This is why I reserve my Down votes for people that are intentionally dishonest or hateful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanghamP Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 5 hours ago, travsformation said: What if you'd said "I think that comes from most of us being male, older, somewhat affluent, white and Christian" ? What part of that is factually incorrect? I mean, it was the British Empire, with pith helmets, a book of Rudyard Kipling, and an ancient Roman torture device, that brought Enlightened Civilization to the world. Even I, as an American (US) from a former British colony, and only-haaaalf-white, can appreciate that fact. On an English-speaking (hehe) forum. Appreciate Western Civilization for the marvel it truly is. It allows you to go to the movies without fear of being jumped, in comfort unknown to even Kings of old. Think of this. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_sewerage_system https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Bazalgette Enough downvotes between people could be solved this way. More civilized than Doxing people. Note the friendly man-hugs at the end. We're mostly a bunch of men talking dirty about MOFETS. And 16 vs 18 inchers. And, um, the best bicycle bell. I'd guess that'd be a bigger reason than a few non-inclusive comments. I do agree virtue-signaling is much better done on Facebook and Twitter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockyTop Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 Civil...... What is civilized? I believe it is a group of people following common rules that are reasonable. What are reasonable rules? It depends on people and environment. Many systems work. Some systems work better and Things are always changing. I once read a very insightful message about leaving negative feedback. “ Please be kind and rewind” - VHS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ir_fuel Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 7 hours ago, travsformation said: You're statement implicitly suggests that women, people who are less affluent, and people with non-scientific backgrounds (the implication being...less rational, I infer) are less polite and more emotionally inclined (and unstable? Based on the antidepressant comment ). To me, that type of comment isn't appropriate for this forum. This is just wrong. Stating that people of a certain age group with a scientific background are polite, does not imply that people that do not adhere to these criteria are impolite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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