On downvoting etiquette: is there consensus?

[travsformation]

5 hours ago, RockyTop said:

I pride myself in trying to understanding the lives and perceptions of the people around me. In my city alone this is impossible. Cultures and living conditions can very drastically in a very small area. This forum is world wide. It can be very easy to misinterpret other people’s comments. I tell myself that if I had walked in their shoes all my life I might agree with them. If all I listened to is the “ fill in the blank” news network or only ever heard one side of a story I would feel the same way. If I saw the same thing happen every day I would have strong feelings on the subject too. I try to remind myself that I and most people only seeing a small piece of the puzzle. It can be very hard to make things better and easy to make them worse. 

This is why I reserve my Down votes for people that are intentionally dishonest or hateful. 

 

Best (and wisest) comment I've read all day! Well put!

[ir_fuel]

5 hours ago, RockyTop said:

. It can be very easy to misinterpret other people’s comments

Don't forget that there are plenty of us here that don't speak English as a native language. That doesn't help either.

[LanghamP]

16 minutes ago, ir_fuel said:

This is just wrong.

Stating that people of a certain age group with a scientific background are polite, does not imply that people that do not adhere to these criteria are impolite.

 

You've never played a game of pick-up basketball in the ghetto?

[ir_fuel]

1 minute ago, LanghamP said:

You've never played a game of pick-up basketball in the ghetto?

No idea what you are talking about. Just showing that "if A then B" does not automatically imply "if Not A then Not B"

[travsformation]

18 hours ago, LanghamP said:

On 3/26/2019 at 2:00 PM, travsformation said:

What if you'd said "I think that comes from most of us being male, older, somewhat affluent, white and Christian" ?

What part of that is factually incorrect? I mean, it was the British Empire, with pith helmets, a book of Rudyard Kipling, and an ancient Roman torture device, that brought Enlightened Civilization to the world. 

Even I, as an American (US) from a former British colony, and only-haaaalf-white, can appreciate that fact. On an English-speaking (hehe) forum.

Appreciate Western Civilization for the marvel it truly is. It allows you to go to the movies without fear of being jumped, in comfort unknown to even Kings of old.

Forget it. If we have to start a discussion about how respect for other cultures doesn't involve lack of appreciation for one's own, and how MOSFET-related banter is in no way comparable to calling someone an uncivilized or uneducated savage, this discussion is going nowhere... (Especially if we have to bring in the British empire)

18 hours ago, LanghamP said:

I do agree virtue-signaling is much better done on Facebook and Twitter.

I was just diplomatically (or at least, that was the intention) requesting a kinder and more respectful approach to certain topics, but if that's how you choose to see it, there's nothing I can say that you're going to actually take into account, so...not much left to discuss...

I reckon we'll just have to agree to disagree. And RockyTop's right about downvotes, they might be a bit harsh for something like this---we just have different pieces of the puzzle. And it's not like you need me to downvote your comments to know I don't agree with them

What I would ask, though, is that you don't wilfully misunderstand me---that isn't good faith. You know what I was trying to say. If you disagree, all you have to do is say so. I was clear, straightforward and respectful; no need for far-fetched inferrals (aka strawman attacks) and unnecessary (and juvenile) jabs. 

[travsformation]

34 minutes ago, ir_fuel said:

This is just wrong. [...]  Just showing that "if A then B" does not automatically imply "if Not A then Not B"

It wasn't a post hoc fallacy ("If A > B, doesn't mean that..."). LanghamP's sentence stated so literally:

Quote

I think people are still quite polite and unemotional, and I think that comes from most of us being male, older and somewhat affluent

[ir_fuel]

11 minutes ago, travsformation said:

post hoc fallacy

[travsformation]

3 minutes ago, ir_fuel said:

1.

2.  

[Mike Sacristan]

@travsformation has a way with words but something doesn't add up. Barcelona, Spain. Please explain. (yay that rhymes). And yes i'm implying a lot by asking that question.

I didn't read Langham as "we are mostly tomatos, potatoes, broccoli and celery" and thus being some kind of funky vegetable that is comprised of all those things.
I read rather as optional non inclusive /or.

As for scientists... I have never seen so many people on a forum begin a post with: "Well, actually". It's like a forum of Sheldons. Cracks me up every time.

Something I am sensitive to though is some interpretations that are being done. In recent years I have tried to be more generous when understanding people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_charity

Um, actually a tomato is a fruit.
Um, actually it's tomatoes not tomatos.

 

[travsformation]

14 hours ago, Mike Sacristan said:

@travsformation has a way with words but something doesn't add up. Barcelona, Spain. Please explain. (yay that rhymes). And yes i'm implying a lot by asking that question.

Thanks about the way with words! My girlfriend refers to it as "won't shut the f*ck up" 

American parents but grew up in Spain. Western Europe, so I don't fall under LanghamP's definition of an uncivilized savage,  and haven't taken offence personally, by any of his comments, if that's what you were implying.

Nonetheless...that doesn't entirely rule out the fact that I still might be one (according to my own definition)

14 hours ago, Mike Sacristan said:

I didn't read Langham as "we are mostly tomatos, potatoes, broccoli and celery" and thus being some kind of funky vegetable that is comprised of all those things.
I read rather as optional non inclusive /or.

I'll admit I did. The reason is that in your vegetable example sentence (LOL at the "funky vegetable", BTW), you used nouns, whereas Langham's  was a list of adjectives linked with an "and". In a sentence like  "He was short, stout and blond", the adjectives are inclusive; that person is all those things. Same goes for "male, older and somewhat affluent."

Crap, I forgot to start the sentence with "Um, actually..." !!! 

Sorry, I can't help it, I'm a freelance translator...grammar Nazi conversations are my bread and butter (much to my despair).

 

Can anything be inferred from my profession? [Edit: Aside from how much leeway being a freelancer gives me to procrastinate? The fact that these "ethics & philosphy debates" have a stronger grasp on my attention than my work says a lot about how much I enjoy translating corporate by-laws...]

14 hours ago, Mike Sacristan said:

As for scientists... I have never seen so many people on a forum begin a post with: "Well, actually". It's like a forum of Sheldons. Cracks me up every time.

I'm not in the science field, but do admit I'm guilty of nerdiness...I hadn't noticed any literally "Well, actually's" in the forum (plenty of smart-asses though, including myself), but now that you've brought it up, I'll remember this conversation and have a laugh every time I do

14 hours ago, Mike Sacristan said:

Something I am sensitive to though is some interpretations that are being done. In recent years I have tried to be more generous when understanding people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_charity

I generally try to do that too. But...when there are precedents ...  

I've tried to apply RockyTop's "walk in the other person's shoes" approach to this here...ethics discussion? I can understand that depending on our life experiences, what each of us is subjected to every day, etc., we might have different and stronger opinions on certain subjects. But still...generalizing and referring to refugees as uncivilized savages in a post about German EUC regulations still feels out of place. Not only towards the refugees, but towards Germans (whose "risk assessment" was being put into doubt, in terms of EUC regulations, on the basis that they were letting in too many uneducated savages). I'm not saying there's any malice involved, I'm just trying to suggest that expecting respect and politeness and being polite and respectful should go hand in hand...

Or maybe you're right and I'm jumping to conclusions, unable to see past my own point of view...Who  am I to infer the expectations of someone on the other part of the Atlantic who I've only interacted with in written form, in a forum?

In any case, I'm not a moderator, and don't want to overstep my boundaries. I've voiced my opinion on the subject, and do enjoy a good discussion...but that's pretty much the extent of my moral policing   

The bottom line being: I've managed to derail my own thread, once again

 

P.S. Thanks for your input. I might have a way with words, but you've definitely got a way with diplomacy 

[Rehab1]

8 minutes ago, travsformation said:

The bottom line being: I've managed to derail my own thread, once again 

It’s never to late for a tra(n)sformation. 

[travsformation]

12 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

It’s never to late for a tra(n)sformation. 

Would downvoting your comment count as one? It would be on-topic....

Nah...I reserve my downvotes for @ir_fuel...

[Smoother]

FINALLY! Something that made reading this thread worth while 

"A dangling participle!" priceless 

[travsformation]

7 minutes ago, Smoother said:

FINALLY! Something that made reading this thread worth while 

"A dangling participle!" priceless 

Then consider yourself lucky I resisted the urge to tag you so I could drop an easy pun towards the beginning of the discussion...

On 3/26/2019 at 12:07 AM, Rehab1 said:

If you compare the EUC Forum to other online venues you will find that we are truly blessed thanks to the founder John Eucist and the other moderators that invest their time and efforts to  keep this well cared for clock always running smoothly. 

It was soooooo hard not too!!! But with effort, comes reward, and now I can gloat at the fact I have more self-control than @ir_fuel.

Or....do I?

[RockyTop]

Dang!!!  

Wye are their sew Many gramer Nazies on a “science “ forum?  ......... Where R all the math Nazis ? .......

[Smoother]

1 minute ago, RockyTop said:

Dang!!!  

Wye are their sew Many gamer Nazies on a “science “ forum?  ......... Where R all the math Nazis ? .......

Um, Actually, you are confusing poor spelling with poor grammar 

[RockyTop]

1 minute ago, Smoother said:

Um, Actually, you are confusing poor spelling with poor grammar 

Cool ......then at least my grammar is well. 

[Smoother]

#It'aint what you say it's the way that you say it, and that's what gets results#

 

3 minutes ago, RockyTop said:

Cool ......then at least my grammar is well. 

All y'alls grammar is da bomb.

[Rehab1]

18 hours ago, LanghamP said:

We're mostly a bunch of men talking dirty about MOFETS. 

 

[travsformation]

9 minutes ago, RockyTop said:

Dang!!!  

Wye are their sew Many gamer Nazies on a “science “ forum?

 

3 minutes ago, RockyTop said:

Cool ......then at least my grammar is well. 

I'll have you know that there's still an ongoing discussion among linguists on whether ones posts on a forum or in a forum....

 

[travsformation]

13 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

 

Hahahahaha

I think the appropriate reply is "a recipe for potential overheating and cut-outs"

And following the Grammar Nazi sub-topic, that should be "What is a dirty MOSFET" 

Edit: You know you're a true Grammar Nazi when you're correcting Jacky Chan...

[Smoother]

On a more serious note.

TO ALL GERMAN NATIONALS USING THIS THREAD.

The use of the term Nazi is banded about quite loosely here from time to time, and generally in non-Germanic societies.

I do not presume to speak for anyone else, nor do I wish to enter into a long protracted discussion about various aspects of WW2 or the inter war years that lead up to it.

But, I would like to say, on my part, that when I refer to Nazis I am referring to a distinct group of fanatics, who were more brain washed than non-nazis in a pre-war and war time Germany that had little to do with the people of Germany and everything to do with the power of a megalomaniac to give the people of a severely down trodden nation a belief in something better to hope for, by systematically brainwashing them, if only to serve his own twisted ends.

In no way are my own personal references to Nazis a reflection of my feelings about the civilian population of Germany both then or now.

Many Nazi-like catastrophes have happened throughout time, all around the world, some still happening today (Rohinja?, Darfor, Congo, Balkens, Andersonville,  pogrums, Syria, etc etc) so there is plenty of blood and blame to go around. The British empire was particularly blood thirsty for a good while.

Although the sins of the Nazis were horrific and widespread, I for one, hope that you can enjoy our gallows humor at their expense, without feeling as if you, have some sort of collective, and retrospective responsibility for them or their actions, because you do not. Politicians lie to us all the time, to justify their actions, The rise of Hitler and Nazism was simply a rather disastrously successful, if temporary, example of that.

I hope the grammar Nazis don't read this because I'm sure it's full of errors.

[Mike Sacristan]

6 hours ago, travsformation said:

Thanks about the way with words! My girlfriend refers to it as "won't shut the f*ck up" 

American parents but grew up in Spain. Western Europe, so I don't fall under LanghamP's definition of an uncivilized savage,  and haven't taken offence personally, by any of his comments, if that's what you were implying.

That explains it. I have Spanish parents, I was born in Canada, lived there for 13 years, lived in Spain for 5 years and Sweden for 25.
What I meant is that you are too well written/spoken "for being spanish".
Is your girlfriend from Spain? They talked my ears off when I lived there!

6 hours ago, travsformation said:

Nonetheless...that doesn't entirely rule out the fact that I still might be one (according to my own definition)

I'll admit I did. The reason is that in your vegetable example sentence (LOL at the "funky vegetable", BTW), you used nouns, whereas Langham's  was a list of adjectives linked with an "and". In a sentence like  "He was short, stout and blond", the adjectives are inclusive; that person is all those things. Same goes for "male, older and somewhat affluent."

Crap, I forgot to start the sentence with "Um, actually..." !!! 

Sorry, I can't help it, I'm a freelance translator...grammar Nazi conversations are my bread and butter (much to my despair).

I'm sure we can break the sentence down in many ways. For instance: This forum is dominated by people with green, red, blue and yellow backpacks.
Breaking it down and analysing it further is perhaps beyond the scope of this thread though.
I do the same thing though when I have conversations with other technicians and especially if I disagree with them or feel offended by something they say.
I am also very guilty of doing this with my wife.
I quote myself: "Words have meaning! Treat words with respect!" <-- This is when she expresses a thought but does not use the combination of words that I require.

6 hours ago, travsformation said:

Or maybe you're right and I'm jumping to conclusions, unable to see past my own point of view...Who  am I to infer the expectations of someone on the other part of the Atlantic who I've only interacted with in written form, in a forum?

I would rather say that it might be a sensitive topic for you that you feel strongly about. For me it is not. I have a tendency to stereotype cultures, races and sexes so the comment was 100% in line with how I think even if it was inclusive. At the same time I am an easily offended person. Ain't that a bitch.

6 hours ago, travsformation said:

P.S. Thanks for your input. I might have a way with words, but you've definitely got a way with diplomacy 

Thank you so much for that comment and for noticing. It's something I have worked hard on for many years.

I very much enjoy reading your posts! I was waiting like a little teenage girl for you to answer. Then I went for a ride on my MSX and got lost in a forest somewhere.

I can sidetrack myself 5 times in 5 minutes. I then have to dig myself out of 5 layers of sidetracks so I start humming Time from Inception and then end with "Yo, yo! This is MC Sidetrack!" I blame it on having too many thoughts in my head.