Monster 100v or MSX - An appeal for guidance from the Gotway gurus

[Girth Brooks]

Does anyone have an idea of the estimated range of the 100V-1845wH Monster?

[Girth Brooks]

Also, what is the "Gotway Dance" and does this 100V Monster have that issue? Thanks in advance, y'all.

[Marty Backe]

1 hour ago, Girth Brooks said:

Also, what is the "Gotway Dance" and does this 100V Monster have that issue? Thanks in advance, y'all.

The "Gotway Dance", a term that I'm pretty sure I coined, if I remember correctly, refers to what happens on the pre-Tesla designed Gotway wheels when they fall over. I think sometime in the 2015 timeframe Gotway changed their firmware so that the wheel would not turn off until the lean angle was pretty steep. I think this was from a direct request from @EUC Extreme who did extreme maneuvers with his wheels.

This had the unfortunate consequence of causing the wheel to continue spinning even after it hit the ground. Sometimes this would result in the wheel spinning and jumping off the ground. Scary and damaging to the wheel (and our legs sometimes). Many of us (me included) have experienced this.

With the Tesla they reverted to the original shutoff angle, and therefore, no more "Gotway Dance".

Edited January 15, 2019 by Marty Backe

[Marty Backe]

7 minutes ago, RockyTop said:

The GotWay Dance is the little wobble some riders get on the MSuper. It is kinda different for some reason. I personally would not even notice it if my wife did not keep telling me “ you are wobbling again.”  It happens to me when I am indecisive of my next move or just got finished braking. You can see it in the EUCGUYS video.

Sorry, not true. See my comment above.

[Girth Brooks]

The next question is if a 84V - 2400wH Monster with 240 miles on it, a seat, fast charger, and a one year warranty from eWheels for $1950 is a good deal or not?

Edited January 15, 2019 by Girth Brooks

[Marty Backe]

5 minutes ago, Girth Brooks said:

The next question is if a 84V - 2400wH Monster with 240 miles on it, a seat, fast charger, and a one year warranty from eWheels for $1950 is a good deal or not?

In my opinion, yes, assuming that it wasn't ridden hard. Unfortunately this is difficult to know, but you could ask for the history behind the wheel.

The big weakness with the Monster  (I believe even the currently shipping models) is the pedal hangers attachment to the motor. Due to the nature of the pedal hangers being very long (22-inch wheel) there is a lot more stress on the pedal hangers where they connect to the motor. This can result in the pedals loosening over time which can be a real pain to fix (tear the wheel totally apart).

If the wheel is mostly ridden on pavement (not a lot of bumps and jarring of the wheel), it could take a long time (thousands of miles) for this to develop. If the wheel is ridden a lot on trails, it could happen within many hundreds of miles.

So if I were buying a used Monster (even with a relatively low 240-miles) I would want to know how it was ridden.

But that price, for what you're getting, is excellent.

[Girth Brooks]

@Marty Backe I've been in an email exchange about it with Jason. He's getting info and pics from his technician to send me so I will hopefully know more soon. He said someone recently traded it for an MSX so the previous owner could possibly be on this forum.

[meepmeepmayer]

@Girth Brooks

For the 100V Monster:

Range is something like 90km-100km (58-62 miles). So definitely a solid 90km/60mile wheel. More or less depending on how the stars align.

No Gotway dance.

Now, about this 84V Monster. Personally, what I really dislike about it, it has the old ACM/msuper V3 style board which just isn't very strong and can pretty reliably be fried on hills if you try. So I guess the low price for this 2400Wh 84V Monster reflects that. (The new 84V Monsters now have the much, much, much better board that is also in the MSX/100V Monster, but I guess this wheel isn't that new.)

Others (Marty) will probably disagree about how bad it is and that I'm worrying about nothing, but I'm over this old board. My personal opinion.

Sorry if may have spoiled this great offer for you (because the price is really good for what you get!). But it's just something that I personally would care about. On the other hand, there are so many happy Monster owners and I never had one, so maybe better listen to them instead of me.

Edited January 15, 2019 by meepmeepmayer

[Girth Brooks]

@meepmeepmayerI live in Middle Tennessee. Big, steep hills are a factor here for sure and the use of this wheel would be on rough pavement & off road paths often, so the comment Marty made about the pedal hanger attachments giving lots of trouble really concerns me as well. Thanks for this info.

[Marty Backe]

1 hour ago, meepmeepmayer said:

@Girth Brooks

For the 100V Monster:

Range is something like 90km-100km (58-62 miles). So definitely a solid 90km/60mile wheel. More or less depending on how the stars align.

No Gotway dance.

Now, about this 84V Monster. Personally, what I really dislike about it, it has the old ACM/msuper V3 style board which just isn't very strong and can pretty reliably be fried on hills if you try. So I guess the low price for this 2400Wh 84V Monster reflects that. (The new 84V Monsters now have the much, much, much better board that is also in the MSX/100V Monster, but I guess this wheel isn't that new.)

Others (Marty) will probably disagree about how bad it is and that I'm worrying about nothing, but I'm over this old board. My personal opinion.

Sorry if may have spoiled this great offer for you (because the price is really good for what you get!). But it's just something that I personally would care about. On the other hand, there are so many happy Monster owners and I never had one, so maybe better listen to them instead of me.

I have this Monster (2-year old version). I've ridden it on lots of hills/trails and haven't burned up anything. So yeah, I disagree that it's horrible.

Regarding the range, my 2400wh Monster can get me ~65-miles, riding it like I don't have a care in the world - not babying it. There's no way the 100-volt Monster would get near this. I would think it's closer to a hard-riding 45-mile wheel.

1 hour ago, Girth Brooks said:

@meepmeepmayerI live in Middle Tennessee. Big, steep hills are a factor here for sure and the use of this wheel would be on rough pavement & off road paths often, so the comment Marty made about the pedal hanger attachments giving lots of trouble really concerns me as well. Thanks for this info.

Any version of the Monster is potentially going to give you loose axle nuts. Could be 500-miles or 2000-miles. Really depends on how it's ridden. I still think it's a great wheel to have.

When I buy another one (like @houseofjob, I'm waiting for Version 2, maybe this year?) I most likely won't ride it like I did the original. It'll be my cruiser wheel, not a wheel for the mountains or rough trails. Of course if Gotway changes the axle design then I may change my riding tactics.

[meepmeepmayer]

13 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Regarding the range, my 2400wh Monster can get me ~65-miles, riding it like I don't have a care in the world - not babying it. There's no way the 100-volt Monster would get near this. I would think it's closer to a hard-riding 45-mile wheel.

Wow, I'm surprised. 1600Wh are solid 80km/50mile wheels, so 1860Wh should be more. But apparently the higher speed eats it all away. Crazy!

What would you estimate your typical range with a 100V Monster would be?

Essentially like the MSX because the extra battery is eaten by the speed? I'm getting 85km/52miles if I take your 65mile number for the 2400Wh.

[houseofjob]

17 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Wow, I'm surprised. 1600Wh are solid 80km/50mile wheels, so 1860Wh should be more. But apparently the higher speed eats it all away. Crazy!

What would you estimate your typical range with a 100V Monster would be?

Essentially like the MSX because the extra battery is eaten by the speed? I'm getting 85km/52miles if I take your 65mile number for the 2400Wh.

IMHO, you're not factoring in the 4" bigger diameter and how it affects the speeds you are naturally inclined to go.

On 18" wheels, I tend to cruise max ~31mph/50kph; 33mph/53kph for burst. Anything higher on an 18" starts to feel sketch to me.

On the 22" Monster however, I've caught myself cruising at ~34mph / 55kph without even realizing I was going remotely above 31mph/50kph.

 

And I concur with @Marty Backe on the Monster range stats.

Out of all the wheels I've owned & ridden, the Monster is #1 for the widest-ranging variance in range, depending on how hard you ride the wheel. I've got to imagine this is even more so with the 100V version which I am really forcing myself from pulling the trigger on, FML

[Marty Backe]

29 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Wow, I'm surprised. 1600Wh are solid 80km/50mile wheels, so 1860Wh should be more. But apparently the higher speed eats it all away. Crazy!

What would you estimate your typical range with a 100V Monster would be?

Essentially like the MSX because the extra battery is eaten by the speed? I'm getting 85km/52miles if I take your 65mile number for the 2400Wh.

Speed kills, in more than one way 

When riding the Monster, you can't help but ride fast. 22-mph on the Monster feels like 18-mph on other wheels.

When I range tested my Monster, it was 65-miles. Then I did a test where I limited my speed to the mid-teens. I got 95-miles!

I don't have any notable experience with the 100-volt wheels so it would be pure conjecture. As I said above, I would guess it's a 45-mile wheel when riding like a Monster should be ridden.

[houseofjob]

2 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

I don't have any notable experience with the 100-volt wheels so it would be pure conjecture. As I said above, I would guess it's a 45-mile wheel when riding like a Monster should be ridden.

FWIW, @Tishawn Fahie has told me that while he's clocked his 100V Monster in the ~44 mph range, anything above 40mph starts to feel sketch, cruise is more like mid-30 mph range.

[Marty Backe]

42 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Wow, I'm surprised. 1600Wh are solid 80km/50mile wheels, so 1860Wh should be more. But apparently the higher speed eats it all away. Crazy!

What would you estimate your typical range with a 100V Monster would be?

Essentially like the MSX because the extra battery is eaten by the speed? I'm getting 85km/52miles if I take your 65mile number for the 2400Wh.

Here's a 60-mile Monster ride video that I did last Sept

 

And here's my original Monster Range test video from ~2-years ago. I have it queued up to where I'm talking about the range, speeds, etc.

 

[Girth Brooks]

@Marty Backe @houseofjob comfortable cruising speed is another factor I am looking for in this purchase as well that I didn't mention yet. Can the 84V model easily cruise at 30-35mph like the 100V? My Z10 seems sketchy past 25mph. One the appeals to my wanting a 22" wheel is to cruise fast for longer.

[Marty Backe]

1 hour ago, Girth Brooks said:

@Marty Backe @houseofjob comfortable cruising speed is another factor I am looking for in this purchase as well that I didn't mention yet. Can the 84V model easily cruise at 30-35mph like the 100V? My Z10 seems sketchy past 25mph. One the appeals to my wanting a 22" wheel is to cruise fast for longer.

I've never (and never will) ridden a wheel that fast. But I can say that the most comfortable cruising wheel available is the Monster. For me, it feels very comfortable and non-stressful at 25-mph.

[Girth Brooks]

@Marty Backe your Monster speed run video gives the effect that you're going faster than 25mph... LOL

[houseofjob]

2 hours ago, Girth Brooks said:

@Marty Backe @houseofjob comfortable cruising speed is another factor I am looking for in this purchase as well that I didn't mention yet. Can the 84V model easily cruise at 30-35mph like the 100V? My Z10 seems sketchy past 25mph. One the appeals to my wanting a 22" wheel is to cruise fast for longer.

Depends on the rider I guess, but for me, the answer is yes, around 33-34-ish, when totally familiar and aquatinted with the wheel.

I don't believe I've ever hit the 80% power beep ever on my former 84v Monster.

[Marty Backe]

1 hour ago, Girth Brooks said:

@Marty Backe your Monster speed run video gives the effect that you're going faster than 25mph... LOL

I have ridden faster than 25 on Monster, but for short periods. I just don't want to deal with the consequences of a potential at those speeds.

[ED209]

I used to own the 100V Monster, it was very easy to travel at speeds of 30 mph plus, here is an early acceleration test video, when I 1st got the wheel, No 3rd alarm was reached.

 

Edited January 16, 2019 by ED209

[ED209]

I never ever managed a range test, simply because I found it way too hard not exceed 30mph. If you rode at 13mph, a range of 55 miles or more would be possible. 

[Girth Brooks]

59 minutes ago, ED209 said:

I never ever managed a range test, simply because I found it way too hard not exceed 30mph. If you rode at 13mph, a range of 55 miles or more would be possible. 

This makes me want a Monster even more.

[yourtoys7]

If/ when new monster comes out, I might sell MSX, keep mcm5 and get new/ redesigned Monster. For short period I had old model it could just maybe one of the best wheels over all. If you can wait, wait..... if not, either msx or older moster would be just fine.

[Girth Brooks]

@Nick McCutcheon it appears you have a trolley handle on the Monster in your profile avi. Can you please enlighten me as to how you got that on there and what trolley handle you used?