Monster 100v or MSX - An appeal for guidance from the Gotway gurus

[Holt]

Currently own KS18s and it is great.  During my daily rides I'm like 'could it possible get any better?'

Alas, I am interested in purchasing another wheel.  I do not have an interest in anything smaller than 18 inches.

The Monster was always my obvious choice as my next wheel BUT the new 100v and its smaller battery and the new MSX has me thinking (and waffleing).

I'm not a small guy at 6' 200lbs and the 22 inch wheel seems so cool and perfect for long rides on the greenways of North Carolina. 

The price is way high for that Monster!  And could the 'one off' 100v configuration become an albatross? 

Life is so hard when your biggest challenge is what wheel to get next!  

Could those of you with experience with the Monster and the MSX let me know your opinion?

[Marty Backe]

Personally, I'm a proponent of new experiences. Yes, the MSX will feel very different from your KS18S even though they are both 18-inch wheels. But the Monster, it's a totally different beast.

If you have the cash, I would highly recommend that Monster. You already have an advantage in that you are comfortable with the high shell of the 18S, so the Monster won't feel totally alien to you.

The Monster is the most amazing cruising wheel, and except of a relatively weak shell that can manifest itself during a bad crash, it has probably been the most reliable Gotway wheel made.

Except for bragging rights, I don't think the 100-volt version is worth the trouble. Why not go with the 2400wh 84-volt version? When in the mood, you can cruise forever with this wheel.

That's my 2-cents worth 

[meepmeepmayer]

The 100V version has the nice TO-247 mosfets like the msX and MCM5, the old Monster has ACM/msuperV3 level electronics. @Bob Eisenman recently showed some heat damage on his 84V Monster, despite not doing extreme things. I wouldn't get a 84V old Monster for that reason (at least not for the price). It's nearly two years old now.

There was a table posted here where a Monster2 was mentioned, but not sure how reliable that information is or when we would see an update:

Also be aware that due to the uneven battery distribution, the Monster alway tends to the left. I never liked that when I tried one. EUCs should vanish beneath you when riding, not always be on the back of your mind.

Right now I think the 100V is mighty fine, and so is the 1600Wh msX. The battery size difference is not that big (1240Wh vs 1554Wh). I guess it depends on what kind of wheel you want.

[houseofjob]

@Holt 

My 2 cents: save up the money and wait for the inevitable new Monster redesign, which is exactly what I'm doing (preemptively sold my 84V Monster for this very reason).

Objectively speaking, the 100V Monster & MSX are amazing wheels, but the shell designs are basically on their last legs / end-of-life (EOL), as Gotway has fully milked the typical 2-year model runs they give for their designs.

Just like how the ACM design is now confirmed to be EOL, we are due probably sometime next year for a redesigned Monster (at the very least).

The idea of a possible better shelled Monster with built-in trolley (MSX trolley is still crap BTW) and motor disengage switch has me eagerly waiting in anticipation... I won't even be mad if they go eggshell design like the Tesla & MCM5, so long as the seat is figured out  

 

As for the ride experience in general, the MSX, while great, will be a relatively similar physics to your KS18S, due to the same tire diameter & width (with the ability for more cut-angle turns with not having the height of the shell), but the Monster will be more of that KS18S dynamic, but on steroids (merits to both; I now think of the KS18S as a more svelt seated alternative to the Monster, both wheels that I love).

[Marty Backe]

57 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

The 100V version has the nice TO-247 mosfets like the msX and MCM5, the old Monster has ACM/msuperV3 level electronics. @Bob Eisenman recently showed some heat damage on his 84V Monster, despite not doing extreme things. I wouldn't get a 84V old Monster for that reason (at least not for the price). It's nearly two years old now.

There was a table posted here where a Monster2 was mentioned, but not sure how reliable that information is or when we would see an update:

Also be aware that due to the uneven battery distribution, the Monster alway tends to the left. I never liked that when I tried one. EUCs should vanish beneath you when riding, not always be on the back of your mind.

Right now I think the 100V is mighty fine, and so is the 1600Wh msX. The battery size difference is not that big (1240Wh vs 1554Wh). I guess it depends on what kind of wheel you want.

I guess what it really comes down to is range. I would never buy the 100-volt Monster due to its crippled range. I've never noticed the "lean to the left" that you mentioned.

Although the old Monster uses older technology, they still haven't been failing.

But as @houseofjob says, if you can wait (that's a big if), see if there's a redesigned 84-volt Monster around the corner.

Or just buy a Z10 

[Holt]

Thank you for the quality and quick feedback.  

1.  Size - the taller configuration fits me well. 

2.  Robust-ier hardware - I’m all about this. With the available tear down videos of the Monster I would be more inclined to make room on my workbench for an EUC.  I haven’t done this w my 18s due to my inability to find step by step and it’s my only wheel capable of my commute.  BUT the larger battery makes sense right?  same $ for less miles per charge?  If I’m willing to tinker and maintain I believe the 84v is obvious choice.  Fire and forget leads me back to the 100v.

3.  Older vs New vs To Be - waiting for new tech is reasonable option.  I tend to learn towards proven/field tested tech vs ‘version 1 of model 2’.  

4.  I swear I wear out the right side of my bike tires first.  Maybe the left lean will align me!

84v looks to be a speedyfeet order

100v is what Jason stocked

i think there is $5 difference in list price.  what costs are involved w ordering from speedy?  I don’t think we pay vat.

Edited October 19, 2018 by Holt

[Marty Backe]

1 hour ago, Holt said:

Thank you for the quality and quick feedback.  

1.  Size - the taller configuration fits me well. 

2.  Robust-ier hardware - I’m all about this. With the available tear down videos of the Monster I would be more inclined to make room on my workbench for an EUC.  I haven’t done this w my 18s due to my inability to find step by step and it’s my only wheel capable of my commute.  BUT the larger battery makes sense right?  same $ for less miles per charge?  If I’m willing to tinker and maintain I believe the 84v is obvious choice.  Fire and forget leads me back to the 100v.

3.  Older vs New vs To Be - waiting for new tech is reasonable option.  I tend to learn towards proven/field tested tech vs ‘version 1 of model 2’.  

4.  I swear I wear out the right side of my bike tires first.  Maybe the left lean will align me!

84v looks to be a speedyfeet order

100v is what Jason stocked

i think there is $5 difference in list price.  what costs are involved w ordering from speedy?  I don’t think we pay vat.

I bought my 1st gen Monster (2400wh) from Speedyfeet, almost 2-years ago. No VAT is charged, just shipping. If I remember it was something like $50 to $70. I remember buying it Sunday and having it in my house on Friday. Oh, and there is nothing to worry about regards customs, etc. And I live in California! Tell Ian that I sent you 

I would send a message to EWheels/Jason and ask about the 84-volt wheel. Very often his website does not reflect all the stock he has on hand or what's about to be delivered.

I'm surprised he's only selling the 100-volt Monster. I don't know about Jason - he seems to be dumping my favorite wheels 

Except for tightening the axle nuts once (which was partially successful) I've had no issues with mine. I'm not a high-mileage guy (my time is spread over too many wheels), having a bit less than 1000-miles on it. Other people (such as @Bob Eisenman) have many thousands of miles on theirs. Check out some of Bob's posts.

Although Gotway wheels are not built to the same quality standard as the competitors, a side benefit to this is that the wheels are extremely easy to work on compared to the competition.

Edited October 19, 2018 by Marty Backe

[ED209]

 My experience with the 100V Monster is that you have to take extra care with it, meaning you can't really afford to drop it, the shell is too fragile and not as robust as the Kingsong 18a I previously owned. 

The larger diameter gives you so much confidence in the wheel that it allows you to blast through uneven road surfaces at speed if you want. On paths where I struggled to exceed 22mph on my 18 inch wheel or less, the Monster reached 35mph! No beep either, just strong headwind, that is the difference. 

For the best ride comfort and effortless never ending silent power, It is amazing. Make sure to get a seat if you buy one, it also extends the height of the Monster allowing, you to wheel it around as you would on your KS18s.

Edited October 19, 2018 by Edddeus

[houseofjob]

1 hour ago, Marty Backe said:

Although Gotway wheels are not built to the same quality standard as the competitors, a side benefit to this is that the wheels are extremely easy to work on compared to the competition.

Errrr.... true and not true.

I'm still mystified as to why Gotway still doesn't design their wheels so you don't have to split the shell to do a routine tire / inner tube change... this includes their newer egg shell designs, like the MCM5, as I was hoping not to have to do this on my MCM5 for a recent inner tube change (which I did have to).

It's so much easier when you can simply slip out the tire/motor assembly, like InMotion & King Song wheels do... and it wouldn't be that hard to implement. 

Edited October 19, 2018 by houseofjob

[Marty Backe]

48 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

Errrr.... true and not true.

I'm still mystified as to why Gotway still doesn't design their wheels so you don't have to split the shell to do a routine tire / inner tube change... this includes their newer egg shell designs, like the MCM5, as I was hoping not to have to do this on my MCM5 for a recent inner tube change (which I did have to).

It's so much easier when you can simply slip out the tire/motor assembly, like InMotion & King Song wheels do... and it wouldn't be that hard to implement. 

Beyond splitting the shell, was the MCM5 work simple enough?

Can you elaborate on why the tube had to be changed on the MCM5?

[ED209]

@houseofjob, did you use slime before you were forced to change the inner tube?

[US69]

10 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

100V version has the nice TO-247 mosfets like the msX and MCM5, the old Monster has ACM/msuperV3 level electronics. @Bob Eisenman recently showed s

Actually the newest 84Volt version Monsters ALSO have the new board and Mosfets...

[meepmeepmayer]

4 hours ago, US69 said:

Actually the newest 84Volt version Monsters ALSO have the new board and Mosfets...

Really, wow that is a huge upgrade. So the rumored Monster V2 only adds the 2500W motor, then? Or does the upgraded 84V one it still have the old Monster motor with (possibly, don't know) thinner motor cables? There's two things to consider here, board and motor cabling/axle thickness.

How to find out if a 84V Monster is this upgraded variant or not?

[Holt]

US69 and M³ - how can we confirm 84v has the upgrade?  that could be the deciding factor.  

[houseofjob]

10 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

Beyond splitting the shell, was the MCM5 work simple enough?

Can you elaborate on why the tube had to be changed on the MCM5?

10 hours ago, Edddeus said:

@houseofjob, did you use slime before you were forced to change the inner tube?

Yes, if you didn't have to split the shell for simple tire/tube change type stuff, Gotway would be one of the easier wheels in general to teardown. The all-time easiest wheels to teardown still have to go to the i5 and V8 / Glide 3.

I'm not a slime guy (never had good luck with the stuff, despite shaking, as longest it's held was a few days), preferring to make a permanent swap or fix, so hence the tube change, when I encountered a nice screw lodged into my MCM5 tire the other week ago.

Plus, I've discovered hot patching inner tubes, which I will at some point post a video for. This patching eliminates the need for slime or buying a new inner tube.

 

7 hours ago, US69 said:

Actually the newest 84Volt version Monsters ALSO have the new board and Mosfets...

Wow, good to know.

Now all they have to do is solve the shim loosening issue (as that, according to riders here in NYC, is still a problem with the 100V Monster), and I might take a harder look at one!

[Marty Backe]

54 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

Yes, if you didn't have to split the shell for simple tire/tube change type stuff, Gotway would be one of the easier wheels in general to teardown. The all-time easiest wheels to teardown still have to go to the i5 and V8 / Glide 3.

I'm not a slime guy (never had good luck with the stuff, despite shaking, as longest it's held was a few days), preferring to make a permanent swap or fix, so hence the tube change, when I encountered a nice screw lodged into my MCM5 tire the other week ago.

Plus, I've discovered hot patching inner tubes, which I will at some point post a video for. This patching eliminates the need for slime or buying a new inner tube.

 

Wow, good to know.

Now all they have to do is solve the shim loosening issue (as that, according to riders here in NYC, is still a problem with the 100V Monster), and I might take a harder look at one!

Yes, please do so 

8 hours ago, US69 said:

Actually the newest 84Volt version Monsters ALSO have the new board and Mosfets...

Very good to know. Thanks.

[Marty Backe]

3 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Really, wow that is a huge upgrade. So the rumored Monster V2 only adds the 2500W motor, then? Or does the upgraded 84V one it still have the old Monster motor with (possibly, don't know) thinner motor cables? There's two things to consider here, board and motor cabling/axle thickness.

How to find out if a 84V Monster is this upgraded variant or not?

I wonder if we can go by the LED. If it has the new super-brite version, it has the better insides?

[meepmeepmayer]

3 hours ago, Holt said:

US69 and M³ - how can we confirm 84v has the upgrade?  that could be the deciding factor.  

Open it and have a look I guess that would be the job of a good dealer. Or at least a good dealer would have to know such details exactly.

[Holt]

I emailed both speedy feet and jason re: updated hardware in new 84v Monster.  i'll let you know.

Edited October 19, 2018 by Holt

[Michael Tucker]

I just got my 100v Monster about 2 weeks ago and I already put 200 miles on it. Its incredible. Its glides over rough pavement with stability and silence. I go far and fast and only at night. I don't want to get off, even after 2 hours of riding. To me, it is the real adventure wheel, it feels like a battleship that can take me anywhere. I like all my wheels, but this one is the only one I can't wait to ride. 22" wheel is the correct size for un-scouted street riding. All the other wheel sizes now feel like toys, even the Z10!

I don't trust Gotway, its back-heavy when off, can't hear beep when going above 25mph, it creaks when mounting/dismounting, pedal dip takes getting use-to, can't turn off rear rainbow light, OEM charger is a fire hazard.

Its boxy construction is sharp on the calf, and being so heavy its difficult to mount and dismount in heavy traffic areas. Also compared to KS18L acceleration is more tame and labored, but not off-putting. Definitely not a heavy traffic commuter. The KS18L is a beautifully designed wheel that is nible, comfortable, intuitive and snappy, definitely right for tight traffic conditions. Tilt-back is also much nicer and like relaxed resistance compared to the sharp nasty KS18L tilt-back. 

[Marty Backe]

15 minutes ago, Michael Hernandez said:

I just got my 100v Monster about 2 weeks ago and I already put 200 miles on it. Its incredible. Its glides over rough pavement with stability and silence. I go far and fast and only at night. I don't want to get off, even after 2 hours of riding. To me, it is the real adventure wheel, it feels like a battleship that can take me anywhere. I like all my wheels, but this one is the only one I can't wait to ride. 22" wheel is the correct size for un-scouted street riding. All the other wheel sizes now feel like toys, even the Z10!

I don't trust Gotway, its back-heavy when off, can't hear beep when going above 25mph, it creaks when mounting/dismounting, pedal dip takes getting use-to, can't turn off rear rainbow light, OEM charger is a fire hazard.

Its boxy construction is sharp on the calf, and being so heavy its difficult to mount and dismount in heavy traffic areas. Also compared to KS18L acceleration is more tame and labored, but not off-putting. Definitely not a heavy traffic commuter. The KS18L is a beautifully designed wheel that is nible, comfortable, intuitive and snappy, definitely right for tight traffic conditions. Tilt-back is also much nicer and like relaxed resistance compared to the sharp nasty KS18L tilt-back. 

Nice collection of quality wheels (you really need to dump the Luffy and get the Mten3 ).

I like your post, but it's kind of confusing. I'm not sure if you hate or love the Monter   It starts as a love story to the Monster, but by the end ... who would want to buy a Gotway?

Funny 

[Holt]

11 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Nice collection of quality wheels (you really need to dump the Luffy and get the Mten3 ).

I like your post, but it's kind of confusing. I'm not sure if you hate or love the Monter   It starts as a love story to the Monster, but by the end ... who would want to buy a Gotway?

Funny 

I think Michael gave a good pro and con on the Monster.  The confusion is the 'nasty kickback on 18L' maybe should read 'nasty kickback on Monster'.

[Marty Backe]

28 minutes ago, Holt said:

I think Michael gave a good pro and con on the Monster.  The confusion is the 'nasty kickback on 18L' maybe should read 'nasty kickback on Monster'.

I think when you read his post you have to remember that the entire post is with regards to the Monster. When read that way, you understand that he's referring to the awful tilt-back characteristics of the 18L. It also helps if you have experience with KingSong wheels which are known to have a rather sharp tilt-back response relative to other wheels.

Gotway implements a mild tilt-back which will never startle you. The Z10 also implements a very nice tilt-back. KingSong and Inmotion, not so nice.

Edited October 19, 2018 by Marty Backe

[meepmeepmayer]

Wow that picture Looking cozy.

@Michael Hernandez You can get rid of pedal dipping in curves by doing a calibration and taking care of these two things:

• Do NOT tilt the wheel sideways during the entire calibration step (which includes switching the wheel off and on at least once).
• Make sure it's still, don't hold it in your hand, put it against something hard and firm. It shouldn't move during the entire process (which is over later than one may believe).

Sideways tilt is what produces bad calibrations that produce pedal dipping when the wheel is too sideways (=in curves).

Edited October 19, 2018 by meepmeepmayer

[Michael Tucker]

3 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

Nice collection of quality wheels (you really need to dump the Luffy and get the Mten3 ).

I like your post, but it's kind of confusing. I'm not sure if you hate or love the Monter   It starts as a love story to the Monster, but by the end ... who would want to buy a Gotway?

Funny 

No way! I love that Luffy!!! It was my very first wheel. I posted about my Luffy vs my Mten3 under my old username "TomSkanks" (now I'm just using my real name). I sold my Mten3 on this forum to @csmyers . Mten3 and Ninebot Z10 both have similar tire profile and width ratio which I don't care for. Although the Z10 is very unique and is both easier and harder to master than any other EUC. I think it makes me a better rider to try and understand and tame the wobbles of the Z10.

I totally love the Monster!!! When I take it on a cruise in the hills, I ride bent and wide legged like the Z10 without sides of leg touching (like you mentioned recently on one of your MCM5 videos), so no leg pain from sharp case siding. It glides weightless and effortlessly. If I take it in traffic with many stop and goes, I use side of leg to mount/dismount, and its weight becomes cumbersome. Right wheel for the right ride. 

Gotway's track record and build quality reputation precedes them for new and repeat customers. As to who would want to buy a Gotway...Daredevils!

3 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Wow that picture Looking cozy.

@Michael Hernandez You can get rid of pedal dipping in curves by doing a calibration and taking care of these two things:

• Do NOT tilt the wheel sideways during the entire calibration step (which includes switching the wheel off and on at least once).
• Make sure it's still, don't hold it in your hand, put it against something hard and firm. It shouldn't move during the entire process (which is over later than one may believe).

Sideways tilt is what produces bad calibrations that produce pedal dipping when the wheel is too sideways (=in curves).

Thanks Meep!