Monster 100v or MSX - An appeal for guidance from the Gotway gurus

[Marty Backe]

2 hours ago, Michael Hernandez said:

No way! I love that Luffy!!! It was my very first wheel. I posted about my Luffy vs my Mten3 under my old username "TomSkanks" (now I'm just using my real name). I sold my Mten3 on this forum to @csmyers . Mten3 and Ninebot Z10 both have similar tire profile and width ratio which I don't care for. Although the Z10 is very unique and is both easier and harder to master than any other EUC. I think it makes me a better rider to try and understand and tame the wobbles of the Z10.

I totally love the Monster!!! When I take it on a cruise in the hills, I ride bent and wide legged like the Z10 without sides of leg touching (like you mentioned recently on one of your MCM5 videos), so no leg pain from sharp case siding. It glides weightless and effortlessly. If I take it in traffic with many stop and goes, I use side of leg to mount/dismount, and its weight becomes cumbersome. Right wheel for the right ride. 

Gotway's track record and build quality reputation precedes them for new and repeat customers. As to who would want to buy a Gotway...Daredevils!

Thanks Meep!

[Yvan]

Upgrade tire on monster 100v

80 /90 - 17  NR77

3,15 inches width

Total 22.63 inches 

[Yvan]

More comfortable

More responsive

More efficient

 

[EUCGUY]

3 hours ago, Yvan said:

More comfortable

More responsive

More efficient

 

would the monster tire fir on the msx or is the rim bigger?

[Yvan]

27 minutes ago, EUC GUY said:

would the monster tire fir on the msx or is the rim bigger?

 Only on monster 84v or 100v

Edited October 20, 2018 by Yvan

[EUCGUY]

47 minutes ago, Yvan said:

 Only on monster 84v or 100v

it looks soo good!

[ED209]

15 hours ago, Yvan said:

More comfortable

More responsive

More efficient

 

You have just created the

MONSTER X ?

[Yvan]

I am very impressed with the results. At low speed it is more reactive. At high speed it is more precise. With the impression of sticking on the bitumen. And an incomparable smooth ride.

The rounded shape of the tire increases cornering efficiency.

It is now a racing machine ?

 

[Holt]

I sent two emails to see if I could get additional info on new 84v monsters are equipped w the updated hardware.  Jason replied with what he had in stock and speedyfeet didn’t respond.  

So no independent verification of U69 statement.  If verified I’d buy the 84v no question.

Marty’s right on about the monster ... part of the reason to own is the massive range.  

I’ve exhausted my research on voltage, consumption, heat, gauge, axel diameter, etc.

If the 100v is ‘safer’ that would be a major plus.

The KS 18s is the perfect fit for me but I’m approaching 2000 miles and would prefer to have some options in my wheel house.

Winters coming and if it gets cold that might get me into a monster v2.

The hunt continues ....

Cheers and thanks again for the feedback.

 

 

 

[yourtoys7]

On 10/20/2018 at 9:20 AM, Yvan said:

Upgrade tire on monster 100v

80 /90 - 17  NR77

3,15 inches width

Total 22.63 inches 

A+ for performing this change, I hope the New, redesigned monster will use slicker tire like this. Ive only had my monster for couple of weeks but had to let it go. Maybe I'll get another one if there is a significant change. Amazing machine never the less.

[Holt]

Received confirmation from Ian re: hardware used in latest Monsters:

Ours are the normal version, the latest version are having the MsuperX boards fitted.

My bottom line question is this:

Does the 100v version prevent what occurs at 1 min 30 sec in the video below?  I encounter the type of hill that zapped that Monster on 90% of the rides I go on.

 

[meepmeepmayer]

24 minutes ago, Holt said:

My bottom line question is this:

Does the 100v version prevent what occurs at 1 min 30 sec in the video below?  I encounter the type of hill that zapped that Monster on 90% of the rides I go on.

Quoting what I posted in the video comments to a similar question:

Quote

The MCM5, 100V Monster and msuper X (84V and 100V) have much, much better mosfets (TO-247) that you won't be able to fry (motor cables would melt first). So you definitely wouldn't have fried any of these wheels on that hill.

The Tesla and ACM2/Tesla-ized msuper V3 (with the 1900/2000W motor from the Tesla) have better mosfets too, but not nearly as awesome as the TO-247. Most likely would have worked on that hill, too.

The problem really is the old ACM/msuperV3/84VMonster board with the weak mosfets (and thinner motor cables). There were some rumors of a 84V Monster with TO-247s but for now it seems the 84V Monster only exists with the old, weak mosfets.

So the 100V Monster would be completely fine there. Watch @EUC GUY's infamous video what it takes to kill a wheel with this board.  Pretty much any hill would be far below that.

24 minutes ago, Holt said:

Received confirmation from Ian re: hardware used in latest Monsters:

Ours are the normal version, the latest version are having the MsuperX boards fitted.

That's a bit ambiguous. What does "latest version" mean? Is the 100V the "latest version" or does he explicitly say the newly built 84V have the msX type board?

Edited November 1, 2018 by meepmeepmayer

[Holt]

22 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Quoting what I posted in the video comments to a similar question:

So the 100V Monster would be completely fine there. Watch @EUC GUY's infamous video what it takes to kill a wheel with this board.  Pretty much any hill would be far below that.

That's a bit ambiguous. What does "latest version" mean? Is the 100V the "latest version" or does he explicitly say the newly built 84V have the msX type board?

both jason and ian were ambiguous in responses. 

that's ok.  i have come to my own conclusion that my decision comes to extended range on older hardware build or shorter range on newer hardware build.  ian's video of the 84v failure, my 200 lbs weight, hilly riding terrain, and the 100v description from ian's site "For those wishing to do very long rides over challenging terrain. We would recommend if you are looking for road riding and its not challenging terrain then stick with the 84v"  led me to this conclusion.  

Short of waiting on the next wheel, the 100v is best fit for me.

 

[ED209]

@Holt, I have the 100V and have ridden up hills as if I were riding 16/18 inch wheel. Board  temperature has never risen above 53c and usually remains at 39c.

[meepmeepmayer]

Both top dealers didn't say anthing definitive? Oh well, I guess a 84V 2400Wh Monster with the new msx type board would have been too good to be true Maybe the next iteration of the Monster is that and is coming soon.

I just want to add for clarity (in case some people reading this got confused,) it's not the voltage that counts (84V or 100V), just the type of board and its mosfets and the surrounding electronics, mostly cable/axle thickness. Old board (ACM, ms3, 84VMonster) = bad (on hills), Tesla board (Tesla, ACM2, ms3 1900/2000W) = fine, new board (msX, MCM5, 100VMonster) = awesome.

[Electroman]

On 10/18/2018 at 11:28 PM, meepmeepmayer said:

The 100V version has the nice TO-247 mosfets like the msX and MCM5, the old Monster has ACM/msuperV3 level electronics. @Bob Eisenman recently showed some heat damage on his 84V Monster, despite not doing extreme things. I wouldn't get a 84V old Monster for that reason (at least not for the price). It's nearly two years old now.

There was a table posted here where a Monster2 was mentioned, but not sure how reliable that information is or when we would see an update:

Also be aware that due to the uneven battery distribution, the Monster alway tends to the left. I never liked that when I tried one. EUCs should vanish beneath you when riding, not always be on the back of your mind.

Right now I think the 100V is mighty fine, and so is the 1600Wh msX. The battery size difference is not that big (1240Wh vs 1554Wh). I guess it depends on what kind of wheel you want.

If that 75km/h is really true I suppose I have no choice but to drag that "monster" up all the stairs after each trip, my golly 75 is such a fine round figure just started to itch all over all the sudden.

 

A MSX2 capable of such figures though would be the sweet spot and better acceleration, I have yet to try one but just physics, a bigger wheel can go faster if able to push all the way but will loose some acceleration, I thought 16 was sweet spot but start to reconsider that after MSX, just need a little bump in the wright direction for us speed freaks. Everyone can benefit though, the higher that number the safer, no?

[Holt]

21 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Both top dealers didn't say anthing definitive? Oh well, I guess a 84V 2400Wh Monster with the new msx type board would have been too good to be true Maybe the next iteration of the Monster is that and is coming soon.

I just want to add for clarity (in case some people reading this got confused,) it's not the voltage that counts (84V or 100V), just the type of board and its mosfets and the surrounding electronics, mostly cable/axle thickness. Old board (ACM, ms3, 84VMonster) = bad (on hills), Tesla board (Tesla, ACM2, ms3 1900/2000W) = fine, new board (msX, MCM5, 100VMonster) = awesome.

To clarify - Ian stated that the latest Monsters have the new board but the 84v stock he has/had is the old hardware.  Jason let me know that he has stock of the 100v.

I am glad we have quality vendors to work with and fully support their efforts to provide this service.  No complaints from where I stand.

Cheers!  

[meepmeepmayer]

If only there was a picture of a 84V Monster with the msX type board. That would clear everything up.

[Nick McCutcheon]

While I’m in the Monster vs. MSX thread, I might as well ask, how does the MSX stack up to the monster in terms of offroad/bad road handling conditions? (I’m only talking about 84V models). I know the Monster is better, but just how much better is it? I love my ACM2, and I should preface this by saying I’ve unfortunately become an “euc speed demon”, but I find that the tire is not the best at handling bad bike paths and sidewalks (I slow down on sidewalks of course) and I’ve even been hitting max speed at ~47kph a lot more recently. The Monster’s better offroading and higher top speed would mean it has a bigger safety margin than the MSX in the case of hitting a really bad patch of terrain/road, and they even both have seats (which after trying a KS18 seated, I love).

Weight/pick-up-ability isn’t an issue for me, as I find myself really only using the ACM for long distance travel and exploration trips where I don’t ever need to dismount for long, and relying on my KS14D for short distance stuff, but the trolley handle is a feature I use all the time, for when I get to where I’m going. I can definitely DIY a trolley handle solution for the monster, but even then I question how useful it would be given the Monster’s tendency to be, well, a monster!

So what’s are your guys’ thoughts. Do the Monster’s strengths outweigh its lack of a built in handle?

Also worth mentioning is that I would be getting the batteryless version of either of these wheels, and I’d probably be too impatient to wait for a Monster V2 if I’m being honest. 

[Marty Backe]

45 minutes ago, Nick McCutcheon said:

While I’m in the Monster vs. MSX thread, I might as well ask, how does the MSX stack up to the monster in terms of offroad/bad road handling conditions? (I’m only talking about 84V models). I know the Monster is better, but just how much better is it? I love my ACM2, and I should preface this by saying I’ve unfortunately become an “euc speed demon”, but I find that the tire is not the best at handling bad bike paths and sidewalks (I slow down on sidewalks of course) and I’ve even been hitting max speed at ~47kph a lot more recently. The Monster’s better offroading and higher top speed would mean it has a bigger safety margin than the MSX in the case of hitting a really bad patch of terrain/road, and they even both have seats (which after trying a KS18 seated, I love).

Weight/pick-up-ability isn’t an issue for me, as I find myself really only using the ACM for long distance travel and exploration trips where I don’t ever need to dismount for long, and relying on my KS14D for short distance stuff, but the trolley handle is a feature I use all the time, for when I get to where I’m going. I can definitely DIY a trolley handle solution for the monster, but even then I question how useful it would be given the Monster’s tendency to be, well, a monster!

So what’s are your guys’ thoughts. Do the Monster’s strengths outweigh its lack of a built in handle?

Also worth mentioning is that I would be getting the batteryless version of either of these wheels, and I’d probably be too impatient to wait for a Monster V2 if I’m being honest. 

If you do technical trail riding, with lots of hills (think the Mt Wilson trail), you'll want to go with the MSX.

IMO, the Monster is a superior wheel for more level trails that don't require a lot of maneuvering. I'm thinking about the trails around Griffith Park that you've ridden with us. As long as you don't have to do much obstacle avoidance, the Monster is pure pleasure for riding on crappy trails (and nice trails of course).

 

 

 

[Nick McCutcheon]

Thanks @Marty Backe, those videos (especially the last one) are really helpful. I think my use cases will be 85% un-cared-for bike lanes/paths and roads in addition to light trails, and 15% Mt. Wilson-level technical trails, which would lead me to the Monster! I was talking to @Rockhardo, one of my wheeling buddies, during a ride and I expressed some interest in upgrading to the MSX. But, he pointed out to me the fact that a lot of distance/speed wheel riders eventually end up with the Monster after upgrading a bunch due to how "ultimate" the wheel size/handling seems to be, so why not save myself the trouble and go straight to the top. And the more I think about it, the more true I'm finding that to be. And, I'll even have a perfectly good ACM to turn to if I ever run into problems that require waiting for new parts to be shipped. 

As far as the handle situation goes, the seller I've been talking to says some people have had success with the airwheel single-column-style and v5f trolley handles, and I found another thread where someone demonstrated an installation of the airwheel handle. So, I'll probably end up doing that, which would still leave room for the seat. 

[Marty Backe]

1 hour ago, Nick McCutcheon said:

Thanks @Marty Backe, those videos (especially the last one) are really helpful. I think my use cases will be 85% un-cared-for bike lanes/paths and roads in addition to light trails, and 15% Mt. Wilson-level technical trails, which would lead me to the Monster! I was talking to @Rockhardo, one of my wheeling buddies, during a ride and I expressed some interest in upgrading to the MSX. But, he pointed out to me the fact that a lot of distance/speed wheel riders eventually end up with the Monster after upgrading a bunch due to how "ultimate" the wheel size/handling seems to be, so why not save myself the trouble and go straight to the top. And the more I think about it, the more true I'm finding that to be. And, I'll even have a perfectly good ACM to turn to if I ever run into problems that require waiting for new parts to be shipped. 

As far as the handle situation goes, the seller I've been talking to says some people have had success with the airwheel single-column-style and v5f trolley handles, and I found another thread where someone demonstrated an installation of the airwheel handle. So, I'll probably end up doing that, which would still leave room for the seat. 

I do advocate for unique experiences. The MSX is certainly different than your ACM, but the Monster is in a class all by itself. Except for the lack of enjoyable maneuverability and acceleration, it's superior to every other wheel. It takes a bite out of your checkbook, but you'll love it.

Regarding the handle, take a look at how @US69 adapted a trolley handle to his Monster. I don't have a link, but if Ulf sees this maybe he can post it here.

[Holt]

SpeedyFeet confirmed ‘new’ 84v 2400wh monster w msuper x control board are available.  4-6 week turnaround time.  

And I just signed up for the motorcycle safety training class ... too many hobbies!  http://ncmotorcyclesafety.org/

At least I have all sorts of Christmas gift options this year.

 

 

[meepmeepmayer]

10 hours ago, Holt said:

SpeedyFeet confirmed ‘new’ 84v 2400wh monster w msuper x control board are available.  4-6 week turnaround time.  

Do you have a quote or image? I'd like that in cold print.

But that would make the 2400Wh new Monster the best Monster.

[Siggy]

40 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Do you have a quote or image? I'd like that in cold print.

seriously, pics or it didn't happen  @Holt