Thai-lad Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 The chart from https://www.citylab.com/design/2018/10/5-rules-designing-better-more-walkable-cities/569914/ outlines the risk of a fatal outcome in auto vs pedestrian accidents. But similar results are likely from EUC vs pavement crashes as travel speeds exceed 20-30 mph. Something to consider as manufacturers continue to increase the size of wheels, motors and batteries with each generation of product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanCar Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 If EUCs continue to increase in popularity I suspect we will see EUC specific safety gear. Would likely optimize for front impact and common injuries like dislocated shoulders. Riding with a soft backpack on chest would help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanghamP Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 An impact with the ground is almost always survivable whereas a 45+mph collision with an SUV (67% of US vehicles) is not. https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/05/14/611116451/fatal-pedestrian-crashes-increasingly-involve-suvs-study-finds The auto is much more dangerous than the cutoff. Since a few EUCs can reach 35mph, I would suggest using motorcycle specific suits that by virtue of simply wearing the suit the padding is at the right place with no danger of shifting during a crash. Not sure why 100% EUC riders insist on putting on individual items which are not only more expensive but provodeuch less protection. Motorcyclist long ago shifted to the "one suit and done" model. I mean, if you must insist on individual items, just get armored jeans that zip into the armored jacket from Joe Rocket, then call it a day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svenbo Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 I think safety jackets for mountain biking (like the models from sixsixone) also do a very good job at protecting you and the paddings don't shift at a crash. Motorcycle gear is mostly to warm during summer cause they are made for higher speeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
litewave Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 2 hours ago, LanghamP said: An impact with the ground is almost always survivable whereas a 45+mph collision with an SUV (67% of US vehicles) is not. https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/05/14/611116451/fatal-pedestrian-crashes-increasingly-involve-suvs-study-finds The auto is much more dangerous than the cutoff. Since a few EUCs can reach 35mph, I would suggest using motorcycle specific suits that by virtue of simply wearing the suit the padding is at the right place with no danger of shifting during a crash. Not sure why 100% EUC riders insist on putting on individual items which are not only more expensive but provodeuch less protection. Motorcyclist long ago shifted to the "one suit and done" model. I mean, if you must insist on individual items, just get armored jeans that zip into the armored jacket from Joe Rocket, then call it a day. If you're a casual rider on a long trip, a safety suit (one or two pieces) might make some sense. But if worn in everyday life in restaurants, stores, or corporate place of employment, they look dorky like wearing a flightsuit or spandex. They wrinkle your clothes, take too much time to put on/take off, and require a place to hang / air-out. Also, they tend to soil and smell if worn often and require special cleaning. As for regular motorcycle jackets, the elbow and shoulder pads aren't guaranteed to stay in place unless the chest and sleeves are very snug (see wrinkled clothes above), The sleeve ends tend to be too narrow to fit the Demon Flexmeter writstguards under them without a major struggle and can require assistance from someone else to remove the jacket if you succeed. If worn on top, the Flexmeters will be loose and may not stay in place or offer full protection if you faceplant. After all that hassle, they aren't suitable to wear if you decide to go for a walk or out to lunch while at work (see dorky explanation above). The point is to be safe, practical and not weird, i.e., set a positive example for others (like coworkers and other normal people) who might be tempted to join our ranks. From my 2.5+ years of commuting everyday, the best option is to wear a helmet, slim knee/shin guards under your pants and leave them on all day, and easy-slide-on elbow pads (Leatt) and Flexmeters wristguards, along with normal attire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 17 hours ago, Thai-lad said: The chart from https://www.citylab.com/design/2018/10/5-rules-designing-better-more-walkable-cities/569914/ outlines the risk of a fatal outcome in auto vs pedestrian accidents. But similar results are likely from EUC vs pavement crashes as travel speeds exceed 20-30 mph. Something to consider as manufacturers continue to increase the size of wheels, motors and batteries with each generation of product. I am actually more worried about the pedestrians which will be injured by EUCers going faster and faster, as they cannot make any conscious choice about taking the risk or leaving it. The more so, because the main safety recipe repeated by EUCers again and again is wearing safety gear, which does nothing to protect pedestrians and cyclists hit by EUCers going faster and faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanghamP Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 26 minutes ago, Mono said: I am actually more worried about the pedestrians which will be injured by EUCers going faster and faster, as they cannot make any conscious choice about taking the risk or leaving it. The more so, because the main safety recipe repeated by EUCers again and again is wearing safety gear, which does nothing to protect pedestrians and cyclists hit by EUCers going faster and faster. Ever ridden alongside another EUC and they gave you a slow but firm push? Don't do that. I would guess that unlike a bike to pedestrian collision an EUC to pedestrian collision the EUC will come off worse since he's assured of coming off the EUC and hitting the ground. Not always but usually. I'd guess vehicles are more dangerous to pedestrians since they go faster, are heavier, and hit harder. I would guess the impact of the flat front of an SUV at 45 mph would be taking a person and hurling them to the ground out of a 3 story building. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanCar Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 9 hours ago, Mono said: I am actually more worried about the pedestrians which will be injured by EUCers going faster and faster, as they cannot make any conscious choice about taking the risk or leaving it. If there is a pedestrian collision it will likely be at low speed. No one wants to hit anyone. If a pedestrian is looking at their phone and unexpectedly crosses a pathway, then that kind of accident can happen. I suppose that is an advantage of having a front firing speaker making some noise. In off road environments I hope the wheels with the rough terrain are making sufficient noise to avoid unexpected surprises. I wear bright protective gear, in other words not black. I hope others do too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yourtoys7 Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 If you look at bikes falls at high speeds, you see Most of them walk away with good gear. I would easily push the wheel to 60/70 km/h assuming safety margins are there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ir_fuel Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 4 hours ago, litewave said: If you're a casual rider on a long trip, a safety suit (one or two pieces) might make some sense. But if worn in everyday life in restaurants, stores, or corporate place of employment, they look dorky like wearing a flightsuit or spandex. They wrinkle your clothes, take too much time to put on/take off, and require a place to hang / air-out. Also, they tend to soil and smell if worn often and require special cleaning. As for regular motorcycle jackets, the elbow and shoulder pads aren't guaranteed to stay in place unless the chest and sleeves are very snug (see wrinkled clothes above), The sleeve ends tend to be too narrow to fit the Demon Flexmeter writstguards under them without a major struggle and can require assistance from someone else to remove the jacket if you succeed. If worn on top, the Flexmeters will be loose and may not stay in place or offer full protection if you faceplant. After all that hassle, they aren't suitable to wear if you decide to go for a walk or out to lunch while at work (see dorky explanation above). A short cut "touring" motorcycle jacket is as easy to use as a normal jacket. Ok your pads might move but the first impact will always be covered IMO as long as you close your jacket's zipper. Compared to motorcycles we don't need to support sliding 100ft and hitting several obstacles before coming to a standstill. It's usually 1 smash into something and that's it. Pretty sure my shoulders and elbows are protected when going down. I wear wrist protection without issues under my jacket. For the legs, slap on some G-Form knee protection under your regular pants. You can wear them all day long ( I don't even realise they are there once I have them on for 5 minutes ) and nobody will notice them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono Posted October 16, 2018 Share Posted October 16, 2018 On 10/14/2018 at 10:01 PM, DanCar said: If a pedestrian is looking at their phone and unexpectedly crosses a pathway, then that kind of accident can happen. I suppose that is an advantage of having a front firing speaker making some noise. In off road environments I hope the wheels with the rough terrain are making sufficient noise to avoid unexpected surprises. That's the attitude I am afraid of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 31 minutes ago, Mono said: That's the attitude I am afraid of. That's the attitude I am afraid of. Being unnecessarily passive and accommodating and giving people false ideas and expectations how the entire PEV boom is going to go and what everybody's roles are. Traitors in our own midst, so to speak. (I mean this way less harsh than it is may sound. Also I may be mis- or overinterpreting what you meant. Sorry if any of that is the case) It's not just our job to adapt to existing people, idiots or not. They are expected to adapt to us, too, whether we act as idiots or not. Whether someone glued to their phone runs into a lamp post or a EUC, not our job to care for them. It's our job to care for ourselves and not be hit/crashed by such people, and I guess to not maliciously ram them if possible. Rest is on them. We're not going to get far with a "but only if you're ok with it" attitude. People adapt to change when they have to, not because they want to. No need to bend over in advance and ruin it for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanCar Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 Somewhat off topic: I hit my 5 year old Son yesterday. I was in a rush because I told my wife I'd be home by 6 and my Son came around the corner of the house as I was going around. Very minor head injury to him, but super embarrassing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 Yea, corners are dangerous. Ideally one always drives so you can brake for any unexpected obstacle. That means going around corners really slowly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanCar Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 5 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said: Being unnecessarily passive and accommodating and giving people false ideas and expectations how the entire PEV boom is going to go and what everybody's roles are. Funny, sounds like Mexico where vehicles run over pedestrians regularly. I prefer the U.S. mode of thinking where pedestrians have the right of way mostly and it is up to everyone else not to hit them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 I don't think pedestrians have the unlimited right of way on roads and bike paths, do they? All I'm asking is not to put the burden for everything just on us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 26 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said: Yea, corners are dangerous. Ideally one always drives so you can brake for any unexpected obstacle. That means going around corners really slowly. I prefer the Russian Roulette tactic. Full speed ahead and hold your breath. Adds a little more adrenaline to the riding experience Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z3n Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 45 minutes ago, DanCar said: Somewhat off topic: I hit my 5 year old Son yesterday. I was in a rush because I told my wife I'd be home by 6 and my Son came around the corner of the house as I was going around. Very minor head injury to him, but super embarrassing. At least there was no major injury happened to you because of this promise! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanghamP Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 3 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said: Whether someone glued to their phone runs into a lamp post or a EUC, not our job to care for them. It's our job to care for ourselves and not be hit/crashed by such people, and I guess to not maliciously ram them if possible. Rest is on them. I disagree with this for several reasons. 1. The majority of pedestrians being injured and killed are children and old people, as this demographic has to look quite closely at where they are stepping. 2. The person with the motorized vehicle has greater mass and therefore has a duty not to ram his vehicle into a more vulnerable group. 3. When pedestrians stop feeling safe due to motorized vehicles buzzing around them, then pedestrians become car drivers. Which makes them fat. I hate fat chicks. Do you to be surrounded by fat chicks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 I just want to preemt people absolving everyone else of any responsibility and giving all responsibility to people on novelty ridables, should anything happen. Aka I don't want to see "X is dangerous" instead of a more accurate "pedestrian blindly runs into bike lane and gets hit by X", or "X accident" instead of the truth that would be "car overlooks and rams X". So to get back on topic, adaption should be expected from others, too, in deciding what is too fast and what isn't. @LanghamP 1. Nobody says to ride irresponsibly. 2. That would give me (100kg wheel+rider) the right of way over lots of fat people 3. Take a car lane and make it a nice bike+PEV lane, or remove the ubiquitous curbside parking to make space. No trouble for pedestrians, less space for cars makes them less convenient, hopefully that encourages people to walk. Add McDonalds curfews, etc, you can be creative Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanCar Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 7 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said: 1. Nobody says to ride irresponsibly. What some of us are saying is that when riding near pedestrians it is best to ride defensively, which often means slowing way down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 I don't disagree with that, driving defensively should be done everywhere (within reasonable measure). I'm just saying, if anything happens, don't automatically blame the EUC (or other new ridable), which seems to be the attitude even of some people here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chili D Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 22 minutes ago, DanCar said: What some of us are saying is that when riding near pedestrians it is best to ride defensively, which often means slowing way down. He’s not disputing riding responsibly (slowing down as you put it) and even ageeed with what your suggesting. What meepmeep is also saying is a concept that some of you are not acknowledging in that a pediestrian shares responsibility, too. Case in point - so many pedestrians have accidents and the drivers, riders, others who hit them are not found at fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanCar Posted October 17, 2018 Share Posted October 17, 2018 7 hours ago, Chili D said: He’s not disputing riding responsibly (slowing down as you put it) and even ageeed with what your suggesting. What meepmeep is also saying is a concept that some of you are not acknowledging in that a pediestrian shares responsibility, too. Case in point - so many pedestrians have accidents and the drivers, riders, others who hit them are not found at fault. Yes pedestrians share responsibility but some of us would rather but the burden on vehicles to minimize injuries. It is not o.k. to run over a child just because he or she is care free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chili D Posted October 18, 2018 Share Posted October 18, 2018 3 hours ago, DanCar said: Yes pedestrians share responsibility but some of us would rather but the burden on vehicles to minimize injuries. It is not o.k. to run over a child just because he or she is care free. You’re typing back that you agree with the concept we are conveying about shared responsibility and fault. I’d also argue that the burden is majorly weighted towards vehicles. My case comment was making a point that responsibility(fault) is shared Oh,what text was typed by someone here that states it’s okay to run over anyone. No one is saying that and you’re simply stating something people aren’t contesting. safety starts with you!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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