Jump to content
lutz

Wheels for heavier riders?

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, RockyTop said:

Did your pedals slowly flatten out before they broke?

Not this time. Just a clean unexpected (not pre- ride inspected) break. I lost the 'shims' but you can buy ACM bolts and shims separately from the pedals.

I broke a Ninebot One E+ pedal that flexed alot like you described before replacing it following a walk off.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rationalizing a pedal snap is a good teachable moment on the engineering topic called 'creep and craze'.

A graduate student at MIT once told me his thesis was about 'creep and craze'.

Hevsaid that if you think about what repetitively bending a thin sheet of plexiglass looks like....first you see tiny cracks forming parallel to the material bend......that's called 'crazing'. As you continue to repetitively bending the material the tiny cracks become more numerous and start to combine head to toe to form recognizable 'cracks'......and ultimately the material fails under load.

Engineering types pre-evaluate and compute how much deflection, which material, etc fail under repetitive bending stress.

A possible example of use:

The people who design and maintain airplanes made out of aluminum or whatever composite they choose at a given position aboard need to know how much repetitive stress a wing, or other aircraft part can take before the process of 'creep and craze' makes the part unsafe and in need of replacement.

Obviously I'm not an engineer but you probably get the idea that EUC pedals are subject to creep and craze' processes that are EUC mileage, pedal material , rider style , rider weight and terrain dependent.

*****

My Ninebot One E+ pedal fail was on one of two hinge points on the dominant foot pedal (right)

at 4168 miles.

It was a 'saggy fail' incident with one hinge point holding the pedal on.

*****

My Gotway Monster pedal fail was on both hinge points on the dominant foot pedal (right)

at 4694 miles

It was a 'clean break fail' incident.

*****

Edited by Bob Eisenman
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A faceplant usually means a type of crash where the wheel turns off while riding. An over-leaned wheel will dip slower and only turn off once reaching 45 degrees from level (in any direction). That gives the rider a lot more time to react.

5 hours ago, winterwheel said:

no matter how fast one is travelling the distance between you and the ground is the same, and the effect of gravity is the same, so the time available to protect oneself from the ground is the same.

Your reasoning is almost valid. As was explained on the previous page it’s the rotational movement and the lack of a solid surface to stand on or jump from that isn’t included in your model.

Imagine a 2m long pole. Set it vertically to the ground and let it fall. Takes a good amount of time. Now hold the pole vertically from a car window while going 50km/h, and let go. Quite a spectacularly different event.

 

Last night I was riding at a steady 40km/h when a repaired patch of asphalt that looked flat was actually a pretty good bump. I didn’t prepare for it at all, so the bump sent all 92kg of me flying for a short while. I landed perhaps half a second (or more) later with the soft thud only a 18x3.0 tire provides. The MSX didn’t tilt in any direction during the event, and my balance wasn’t affected. Got a good scare of course, but all that was needed was a slight repositioning of my left foot.

Before the MSX was available there was a video about MSX testing where they let a free running MSX hit a tall curb at various speeds. Sometimes the wheel bounced pretty high straight up, but every single time the wheel was horizontally perfectly flat during the flight. I never understood how the wheel can react so fast and precise that such a sudden event is still passed by totally flat. Now I know it can do it even with me on it.

I’m now past 3000km on my MSX. My riding is mostly offroad, and a lot of the streets here have a lot of curbs, bumps and cracks. I have yet to find any worn or disformed parts on the MSX.

Max load figures are a hoax.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, winterwheel said:

I've crashed a few times on both, and for me at least, I much prefer crashing a wheel to a bicycle.

I realize that I do have to ask: how often have you crashed on the EUC going faster than 25km/h? And how often going slower?

Edited by Mono

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Bob Eisenman Oh wow, somehow I missed that. You always have (quite gnarly) crashes and that info gets lost a bit. Ouch. Nice range on the Monster!

@RockyTop What wheel? For now, I can only remember breakages of the ACM style pedals. So the msuper X might still be safe, even if the ACM pedal breakages were a general problem (I still don't think they are, but who knows...).

Do you have a photo (if there is anything to see)?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I realize that I do have to ask: how often have you crashed on the EUC going faster than 25km/h? And how often going slower?

I was counting the total in the spring and I got up to seventeen, with two since then (i.e. 19 total), defining crashes as any incident where I hit the ground with something other than feet. So not counting run offs or that time I was hit by a car; those would add a few more. Anyway, the vast majority were lower speed crashes, and maybe 14 of those took place in the winter. It includes a few 0-speed crashes from situations like having to stop on an icy sidewalk and falling down because I haven't worked out a graceful way to dismount in that situation, or falling off when starting out because my snow-clogged footwear slipped off the snow pack built up on the pedal.

It includes only two 25km+ crashes, one in the winter, and one in the summer, described above. Really, I imagine this is a pretty typical profile for people here, if you subtract the winter part. As I've mentioned elsewhere though, winter is a wonderful(?) time to fall off the wheel because you are travelling at lower speeds and so bundled up for the cold that incidents are really more embarrassing than anything. You just slide on ice, you don't have the nasty asphalt grinding holes into your knees.

On a positive note, and so I don't  leave the impression that I am playing demolition derby with my wheel here in Edmonton, I should say that I crash quite rarely now because it is very difficult to get me off the wheel; and even harder to get me to actually hit the pavement. Between the skills that come with a year of riding almost every day, and the awesome little warriors that are the ACM twins, I've ridden over quite a few unexpected surface obstacles that would have taken me down last year.

On the other hand winter #2 is just getting started, so that might be a whole thing...

Edited by winterwheel
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, meepmeepmayer said:

@Bob Eisenman Oh wow, somehow I missed that. You always have (quite gnarly) crashes and that info gets lost a bit. Ouch. Nice range on the Monster!

@RockyTop What wheel? For now, I can only remember breakages of the ACM style pedals. So the msuper X might still be safe, even if the ACM pedal breakages were a general problem (I still don't think they are, but who knows...).

Do you have a photo (if there is anything to see)?

What wheel?  June 2018 MSuerV3s+  

I have been glueing the shims in for now.  One shim keeps falling out so I thought I would take pictures.  In doing so I have found that without the shim and without weight the pedal sits ok but when I put weight on it, it bends flat. The side with the shim does not flex or drop flat. No easy way to take a picture. I did but does not really show anything. 

To me, this tells me that the hinge contact surfaces are rounded. When you put pressure on the pedal it bends the pin or a combination of things. The metal could be soft and becoming misshaped. 

I have seen internal pictures of the old and new ACM and MSuper pedals. They have made improvements on the internal structure just not the overall design. 

45976D5C-A26A-459F-B1E0-A39A53CE7A1E_zps

The above picture shows were I glue the shim the below picture shows location of shim when pedal folds down. 

83E500CD-AA35-4EA9-88E9-F3225B526A83_zps

 

Off topic side note: Thanks to the people that made this forum. I am amazed that if for some reason you get knoked off line or your computer shuts off or you change devices everything that you wrote is still there. Not the same on YouTube!! .......... I just got an important Pop UP screen message from Microsoft telling me that my Windows operating system has been hacked and I need to call the given number before all my info was on the web!!!!   Oh wait !!  I have not had a computer that runs windows in over 5 years. Did they mean Linux?  Ha! Ha! :roflmao:

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Bob Eisenman said:

Rationalizing a pedal snap is a good teachable moment on the engineering topic called 'creep and craze'.

A graduate student at MIT once told me his thesis was about 'creep and craze'.

Hevsaid that if you think about what repetitively bending a thin sheet of plexiglass looks like....first you see tiny cracks forming parallel to the material bend......that's called 'crazing'. As you continue to repetitively bending the material the tiny cracks become more numerous and start to combine head to toe to form recognizable 'cracks'......and ultimately the material fails under load.

Engineering types pre-evaluate and compute how much deflection, which material, etc fail under repetitive bending stress.

A possible example of use:

The people who design and maintain airplanes made out of aluminum or whatever composite they choose at a given position aboard need to know how much repetitive stress a wing, or other aircraft part can take before the process of 'creep and craze' makes the part unsafe and in need of replacement.

Obviously I'm not an engineer but you probably get the idea that EUC pedals are subject to creep and craze' processes that are EUC mileage, pedal material , rider style , rider weight and terrain dependent.

*****

My Ninebot One E+ pedal fail was on one of two hinge points on the dominant foot pedal (right)

at 4168 miles.

It was a 'saggy fail' incident with one hinge point holding the pedal on.

*****

My Gotway Monster pedal fail was on both hinge points on the dominant foot pedal (right)

at 4694 miles

It was a 'clean break fail' incident.

*****

hey I hope you're Allright!

may I ask you about your weight? 

best, Lukas 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, RockyTop said:

I have found that without the shim and without weight the pedal sits ok but when I put weight on it, it bends flat

Do you have hard to see cracks where the pedal bonds to the region near the hindge? You shouldn't need shims.

The shear off points on the pedal underside looked like this when my ACM pedal failed.

Gotway Monster - broken foot pedal

 

Edited by Bob Eisenman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do not see any cracks using my soldering magnifying visor. The pinch point where my shim is seems more rounded than it should be. Instead of two square corners contacting one another you get two rounded areas contacting 

It reminds me of this:

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, RockyTop said:

Instead of two square corners contacting one another you get two rounded areas contacting 

If it helps...my ACM pedal replacement looks like this with pedals folded up.

Replaced ACM pedal

 

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

WOW!!  big difference !  Mine does not have that angle or contact on bottom edge. I might need to weld a bead on and machine it to more like yours. The point that makes contact on yours,- is rounded and does not even touch on mine. 

Edited by RockyTop

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Im 6'4" and around 230lbs without riding gear. I currently have a V8, KS18S and KS18L and have to report that all handle my weight fine. The V8 handles the hills in my village but has noticeably less torque than the other two (as its a much lower power motor) but is safe and the most agile of the three when negotiating pedestrians and crowded sidewalks. Its also the easiest by a long way to just throw in the back of the car or carry up and down the stairs when on the tube in london.

When out with others in rough woodland recently the 18L coped with steep tracks covered with loose gravel and dirt just as well as the other wheels ridden by lighter guys. 

I keep telling myself that I should sell the 18S as why do i need two 18" wheels but i really like the tall form factor this wheel has ... but its not one to learn on. 

Good luck with whatever you decide to go for and have fun, this is an addictive hobby.

Edited by nute
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, nute said:

Im 6'4" and around 230lbs without riding gear. I currently have a V8, KS18S and KS18L and have to report that all handle my weight fine. The V8 handles the hills in my village but has noticeably less torque than the other two (as its a much lower power motor) but is safe and the most agile of the three when negotiating pedestrians and crowded sidewalks. Its also the easiest by a long way to just throw in the back of the car ....

Thanks nute!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

215lbs on my Gotway Msuper V3s, 1600WH.  Group ride last weekend 63km and I didn't need a charge like others did (I did when they charged but didn't need to).  I'm the guy in the back.

 

IMG_2185.jpg

  • Like 2
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

22 minutes ago, Czestnut said:

215lbs on my Gotway Msuper V3s, 1600WH.  Group ride last weekend 63km and I didn't need a charge like others did (I did when they charged but didn't need to).  I'm the guy in the back.

 

IMG_2185.jpg

 

No doubt about it the MSuper is awesome!! I still love mine. Now I have two of them.......  yeah, I know, I am doing it wrong!  I should get different wheels not all of the same wheel. I am still new at this. I don’t remember Marty specifying the wheels should all be different. 

Just kidding the second one is for my daughter. :D

Edited by RockyTop
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, RockyTop said:

 

 

No doubt about it the MSuper is awesome!! I still love mine. Now I have two of them.......  yeah, I know, I am doing it wrong!  I should get different wheels not all of the same wheel. I am still new at this. I don’t remember Marty specifying the wheels should all be different. 

Just kidding the second one is for my daughter. :D

My daughter rides my last older Gotway ;)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm new to the EUC and am learning on the MSX.  Really enjoying it now, as I did trips of 12 and 15 miles last 2 days.  I have to take breaks, as my feet and legs tire after awhile.  But very happy with my purchase and my experience.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×