meepmeepmayer

What this means is that Darknessbot (iOS only) can completely replace the horrible official King Song app, it can do everything.

No problem then. In short, a very cold battery might make the wheel give up when you start riding and accelerate, or accelerate strongly on the way. That's all. As long as the battery isn't cold... Someone once posted about storing a wheel outside for hours on a winter evening and then overleaning it on the way home when it could not do the usual acceleration. Quite an extrreme situation.

As long as you use the wheel, everything is good. It (more precisely the battery) will stay warm unless temperatures are extreme. You will get lower range and reduced power margin due to the colder battery. But since your commute is laughably short in EUC terms, that's not an issue. I cannot think of a temperature that would cool the battery down enough to pose a problem but not be crazy cold enough so you yourself no longer want to stand on the wheel for even a single kilometer. Quick googling shows the V10 is rated for -10°C. The important part here is using the wheel. Storing the wheel at cold temperatures is what to watch out for, because the battery will cool down fast if not in use or if it is cold from the start. So do not store the wheel in a car trunk or your garage (unless the garage is at room temperature), but inside at 15+°C. And beware of stops on your way to work that are long enough so the battery gets too cold. Yet even then, unless the battery freezes (not sure when/if that happens), the wheel will not be damaged. You may just be surprised by an unexpected overlean, but I believe even that is extremely unlikely for this short route and these low speeds. The above advice is probably more suitable to looooooooong ride (if at all) @winterwheel has a lot of experience with cold weather riding, and it went well every time. TLDR: Start with a warm battery and keep it warm. Zero problem for your short route. You'll die before the wheel does.

To me, the 16S is not a forever wheel due to the 35kph limit (lower in reality because 35 is the absolute max including death-tiltback, and it sinks with a depleting battery). That's just a notch too slow to be happy with. Neither the Tesla nor V10(F) have that problem. The 16S has a fantastic form factor, including the comparably low weight (nowadays under 20kg counts a light). But so does the Tesla, and it does not have the 16S's limitations. The V10F is also faster, and super sleek with a thinner form factor, this may balance out its comparably higher weight if you prefer this type of wheel. So I don't see how the combination V10F/Tesla could ever lose out to a 16S (except possibly price). Just choose the one you like from the V10F or Tesla and you're better off. My opinion.

Yep. A more realistic limit would be: When would a given tire simply slip? Because there's no point in building wheels stronger than that.

It looks like heat is a function of current (not power), so the nominal W rating of a motor is valid only for a given fixed voltage. So I'm not sure you can compare different voltages like this.

Good link!

EUC riders don't run dead into vertical walls, though. EUC crashes are about impact and abrasion (and their consequences). Not sure how big the difference is for both of them at 30kph vs 50kph. Anyways, this topic is about something else @Marty Backe did you make sure Lisa knows about wrist guards (and all the other stuff, but wrist guards most of all)?

That's how it is since we went beyond 500W motors back in the stone age of EUCs. It's always the battery/firmware that limits what the wheel can do. Current motors can do pretty much everything thrown at them. Motor power ratings are surprisingly meaningless. In the end, only real life experience and reports can tell how a certain wheel behaves. - As far as to your question whether we will see a tech jump soon: I believe KS will be happy with their current 16X/18XL lineup for some time. The 16X motor is brand new and they just updated the 18L/18XL with it. What else would they do new? Gotway's next wheel is a lighter city-commuter Tesla-successor type of wheel. Unless they use a new and more powerful motor for it (not exactly needed for such a wheel) which would then move to all their other 16+ inch wheels, that means there also is no immediate tech jump expected from Gotway. Inmotion will come out with an 18 incher some day (in 2020 I hope), but this might be far off and I don't expect them to take the performance crown. This is all speculation, I don't know the manufacturers' plans. Maybe Gotway will surprise-show a crazy msuper V4 early next year. Probably not. I expect 2020 is not the year of a big performance jump. No guarantees though

The V10F sound like the ideal compromise. It's clearly better than the 16S/V8F and lighter and sleeker and cheaper than the bigger ones. edit: Forgot the Tesla, it's like the V10F but lighter. Replace V10F by V10F/Tesla in the rest of this post. The only downside of the V10F is the lower range compare to the 1600Wh+ options. If you have the slightest inclination that you will maybe enjoy longer range tours, which the V5F cannot do at all so this might be a not yet acquired taste for you but one you might have soon, you may regret the V10F range unless you plan to get a third, big-tour wheel later anyways and use this V10F more for power-commuting and the like. So I say either V10F or a longer range wheel (any of them are great, but probably 16X/Nik make more sense), depending on what your heart says. (Btw the main advantage of the MSX is the super comfortable tire, not only the speed). Of course, if your intuition has a certain wheel in mind that just seems to say "Buy me!", that overrules all theoretical arguments. Sorry for the non-answer answer. All wheels are great. Personally, I'd stay away from the 16S or V8F - too limited.

Completely correct, you can have more or less windings to tune the motor behavior. I don't know how that affects heat dissipation and the W rating of the motor. The Gotway MCM4 actually came in different versions - high speed and high torque - with differently wound motors. Problem with EUCs, more windings reduces the top speed, which is why we don't see this happening. Easier to sell 50+ kph wheels than explain a 40kph limit but increased acceleration/oomph. Also, you can brute-force better acceleration by allowing higher battery usage (wasting battery), but you cannot brute-force a higher top speed, because that limit depends on the motor build. Manufacturers also try to rationalize and use common parts and phase out (or never build) less popular wheel models. Different variations of a model are counter to that. This is why we don't see wheel variations like this and manufacturers build on the side of speed. Maybe in the future, with better competition, manufacturers will have to branch out and offer more specialized wheels. They try to re-use as many parts as possible. 16 and 18 inchers use the same motor, with the 18 inch realized by having a spacer between motor and tire rim (you can see by looking at the 18 inchers). Fundamentally, there's nothing wrong with that. Both Gotway and King Song do that. Gotway even uses their standard motor for the 22 inch Monster. Boards are the same anyways. I believe individual character is more due to the model-specific firmware and, most of all, due to different wheel shapes and geometry. I'm just mentioning this because manufacturers are much much less professional than it may appear or one may expect from such a product. Even if everything works in the end - always prepare to be disappointed! Never trust they will do the obvious, right thing - because so often they do not. Welcome to the forum

From the Ecodrift articles/shop: 100V 1800Wh 21700: 25.6kg 100V 1845Wh 18650: 25.9kg Couldn't find weights for the other ones. Assuming 50g per 18650 cell, it should be 24.7kg (84V 1600Wh) and 26.7kg (84V 2100Wh). 100V 1230Wh should be 23.5kg. Based on the above measured weights. - Looks like 18650 vs. 21700 doesn't make a difference for a similar battery size. 21700s are not more weight efficient or anything

Photos - Ecodrift disassembles the Nikola 100V 21700 Finally some good interior pictures! Thank you @EcoDrift.

Oh well... I guess that also means other battery types don't help? You're completely right. But most people will fly a plane once a year or so. I was also simply thinking how often I fly a plane. Not often. I'm not against such a wheel. If I had too much money, I'd build one just because I can, profitable or not. I'm just saying it sadly is no surprise that there is no such wheel Even if it is viable (it may very well be! I think it could be, especially if it is also a cheap beginner intro wheel), the money can be invested in more viable endeavors by the manufacturers. At least that's what they think. You can't even have a single 16p pack under the magical 100Wh (ot whatever that number is) limit. So how many individual pieces of packs are realistically doable? You want to pockmark an empty shell with 24 plug-in 5cell (even 10 3500mAh cells is above 100Wh) pack-parts to transport a standard 1600Wh wheel? So in theory, it's possible. In practice, it's dumb with the current limitations. A shitty battery size with 2 removable packs is the best realistic option. That means low speed, low safety, low range. - Also, removable packs mean the manufacturers need to add a mechanism that balances different voltages between the packs (or parts of packs). Extra effort they haven't done yet. - Just saying how I think it is. Not happy about this either

End of January is Chinese new year. If there are price drops and discounts, it will be then (from the Chinese sellers - Aliexpress etc. - nothing to do with ewheels.) The mten3 isn't a mass seller. Personally, I wouldn't bet on a new model any time soon. - Range: 20-25Wh/km or 32-40Wh/mile is a realistic estimate. Maybe closer to the lower number (= more range) due to the lower average speed. So divide the battery size by 33 for a realistic range estimate (result in miles). - Weights: ...if you can't look them up somewhere... A battery cell weighs about 50g. 84V batteries come in multiples of 20 cells. 67.2V batteries come in multiples of 16 cells. Gotway uses either 2.9Ah cells or 3.45Ah cells. (edit: maybe not for these special models, I'm confused). Battery size = number of cells * 3.7V * 3.45Ah (or 2.9Ah or whatever the size is) For example, 16*3.7V*2.9Ah = 171.68Wh is the smallest size (67.2V with one group of 16 cells). 2*20*3.7*3.45 = 510.6Wh is the biggest model (84V with 2 groups of 20 cells). These numbers will not be exactly what is advertised! This way, you can guess the battery configuration of a given wheel from the battery size (especially since you know the voltage). 16 or 2*16 cells for 67.2V, 20 or 2*20 cells for 84V (I don't think there's 3*xx). You only need the number of cells. If you also have the known weight of a certain model (probably the 510Wh? it has 40 cells), you can guess the weight of the other models by adding or substracting the weight from the different battery count. Enjoy(or don't waste your time). At most, the difference between 1*16 and 2*20 cells is 1.2kg/2.7lbs, so the weight differences don't matter much anyways. - Top speeds: Top speed should be identical (at least in theory) for all 67.2V models and all 84V models, with the 84V having a higher top speed. The speed beeps (the ones you cannot disable = the ones that you should not ignore) depend on the battery charge (= battery voltage). They are between 39kph (full) and 30kph (10% battery) for the 84V mten3 and between 31kph and 24kph for the 67V mten3, see here. There's a Youtube video of someone crashing a 84V mten3 at 38kph or so. You should stay away from the "speed beep" speeds, especially with smaller batteries. At what speeds the beeps appear in reality (the beeps mean you should stay a bit below the speed range they indicate) I don't know.

Offtopic stuff (removable batteries and plane-suitable EUCs) split into its own topic:

The airlines can transport or not transport whatever good they want. The rules simply say what they definitely cannot transport.

Maybe you are

How often does the average person fly? How often does the average non-US person fly? Because the US is an outlier in air travel (lack of rail, other infrastructure may be less dense, subsidized small airports and routes, etc.). I'm not surprised the (Chinese!) manufacturers do not currently see a market. I believe they are right (at this time). Removable batteries mean a slow, low-power wheel, these don't seem to be the ones that sell. Wheels that sell are either cheap (which such a specialist model might not be) or the powerhorses (which such a model can hardly be). Wasn't even the mten3 (or MCM5?) a non-success outside of the US? There was some info of that kind. I wish the Uniwheel was still (or ever?) available. It has plane-suitable, removable battery packs. Then we'd know how much it sells. (edit: The website is still up - maybe just nobody bought one?) Right now, I guess you have to ship the wheel to your destination. I wonder how much developing such a wheel would cost a manufacturer.

The Nikola is big and heavy. Quite a bit bigger and heavier than the ACM that Marty (and I) learned on. I'm not saying padding up the Nikola and going for it is a bad idea. You can do it (just pad it up everywhere, including the underside of the pedals and pedal hangers). But if your initial intuition was that you learn on a smaller, lighter, easier to manage wheel, trust it. Trusting your intuition is a big part in all things EUCs, from wheel choice to riding itself. Other people may strictly want to learn on the wheel they will be using later, but that wasn't your first thought. Buying a cheaper used wheel and selling it a month later for little loss may be the better option for you. Again, trust your intuition on this There's no right or wrong, just more or less suitable and convenient (for you). The definitely right step (getting any EUC) - you already got that right There you go. Learner wheels like this can always be sold later quite easily, if you go this route (sounds like you may not even have to buy one).

1k miles is essentially new for an electric unicycle. You get a lowered price and a wheel that has been "tested" and confirmed to be good. The ideal buy. Just make sure it didn't have any bad crashes. You'd see from scratches and other mechanical damage. Ask the seller about any notable crashes. If it a) works when you buy it and b) has no mechanical damage from a bad crash, there's nothing else that can go wrong.

I assumed your group ride was V8 compatible, because you said she needs to learn more instead of needing a faster and higher range wheel. But if it's 35 miles, that rules it out anyways. A suitable group ride, forcing a new rider to overcome a rapid challenge, would be a fantastic learning experience though. That was my point

2*16 cells * 3.7V nominal * 3450mAh per cell = 408.48Wh = "420" Wh. Your problem was trusting the manufacturer-provided numbers But that's how "420"Wh 67.2V packs were always done wherever I know - 2p with 3500mAh(King Song)/3450mAh (Gotway). As far as I know, Gotway only uses either 2900mAh cells or 3450mAh cells (I wouldn't be surprised if they switched to 3500mAh lately, but historically it only were these two - only two types of 18650s for them to order).

Maybe shitty noname cells. Someone should measure their actual capacity.

You're the Jesus of EUCs Why didn't you let her join? She would have learned so fast on a group ride! Nothing better than challenging yourself (but not too crazy far out of the comfort zone, as her wanting to join shows). Missed opportunity! Or do you guys all speed at 40kph on these rides?