Tilmann

New IPS i5 announcement - some interesting innovations

88 posts in this topic

6 hours ago, Trey Lewis said:

I don't believe any one person can say what an EUC should be. I think it should be whatever works for that rider. I love smaller wheels, I do, but since I use my wheel to go to the bank, out to eat, or head to my store I could never go back to the very slow speeds of some other models, 5km/h is a very noticeable change. I ride between 35-40 on the roads I ride daily and it keeps my commutes very short. I rode my friends MCM4 (which I love) to to check the mail and the bank by my house and it was fine, but as soon as I made the a longer trip to our EUC store I felt so limited. It is maybe 2 miles but I felt like I was barely moving compared to m ACM+. It doesn't have the power to safely carry me at my comfortable speeds. Some people may only feel comfortable at lower speeds and maybe should get the smaller wheels, but for those that feel much more comfortable at faster speeds or use it for long distance and practical transportation these big and bulky-ish wheels are the only way to get what we want out of an EUC.

It doesn't matter what you believe. You are a distributor. As any distributor, you will say whatever is good for your business.

Everyone knows the Gotway quality is poor, but no one is talking about it at loud.

Is 5 km/h a noticeable change? Sure it is. Is it faster to get from point A to B riding 40 km/h than 30 km/h? Sure it is, captain obvious. Eureka!

Almost everyone likes high speed. Why don't ride 100 km/h then? Why don't get an electric superbike?

The difference between motorbike riders and unicycle riders is that all motorcyclist know they will die once something goes wrong. But unicycle riders want more and more, because even 40 km/h seems not enough any more.

What EUC should be is quite obvious - it should be a personal transportation by definition. If you want a personal transportation, you want it to be as comfortable as a bicycle - or even better. You don't want any helmets, knee pads or anything, it's too much hassle to wear a suit and protection for work commute. So it should be easy to just use your personal transportation device at any time.

With lower speeds, up to 15 km/h, you can simply jump off the unicycle and keep balance, you will be fine. Above 15 km/h it's much harder to do, and above 20 km/h it's almost impossible to jump off without a fall. However, when falling off at ~30 km/h you still know, you will be fine, even though it will definitely hurt and you can tear off your wrist skin. Well, you will be fine as long you're not a dweeb and you know how to fall properly. Of course, assuming you're not hitting a wall or another vehicle / person.

Above 30 km/h a protection is a must, there are no doubts about it. If you are going > 30 km/h without pads and helmet, you're an idiot. And with guards you look like an idiot :-) Even the famous EUCXtreme has some serious injuries on his Msuper, despite professional protection with full-body "armour".

Most importantly, riding more than 30 km/h you are a threat no to only to yourself, but to pedestrians and other commuters. Sorry, but I'm convinced 90% of people riding more than 30 km/h on unicycles simply aren't good drivers - it's the same like 90% of people with driving license shouldn't drive a car - they should be replaced with computers (autonomous vehicles). The same goes with bicyclist - most of the time they ride slower than 30 km/h and are still doing incredibly stupid things, causing accidents and injuries.

I'm not a fan of slow speeds, I would really like to drive a car 300 km/h and unicycle 50 km/h, but it's just impossible right now.

On unicycle, 25 km/h is enough. Remember the average speed in big cities is 13-15 km/h (check out your app), so you can't even reach 30 km/h all the time. It's simply not practical.

25 km/h is similar to a bicycle speed (in most cases even higher), and it will be also the official speed limit in European Union for personal transportation.

Besides, big cities are already introducing the new 30 km/h speed limit for CARS. For me it sounds like a joke, but it's true - you can't legally drive a car more than 30 km/h in such cities. When you can't drive a car faster, why would you ride faster than that on your unicycle?

Even if there are experienced riders between us, there will always be some fools buying Gotways and riding 40 km/h on crowdy pavements, causing accidents.

 

Therefore, EUCs with top speed higher than 30 km/h shouldn't exist at all. It's not safe, it's not legal, it's not practical. Instead, the wheels should become lighter, should have more range, should be easier to carry or transport in a backpack etc. - overall - they should be more mobile. The speed is already fine, but other characteristics can be improved.

You don't like it? Well, it seems like EUCs are not for you - don't expect an EUC to be a motorbike. 

 

6 hours ago, Trey Lewis said:

 

I am glad IPS is pushing things this way though. If they can get a wheel this size and weight up to a safe 30km/h I would be very happy. I think 20km/h feels way to slow for anyone used to more than that. It is almost impossible to go back to riding slower once you get used to the higher speeds.

Airwheel speeds are slow, but people still buying them and ride the "horrifying" 15 km/h top speed. 

20 km/h cruising speed is enough for city commute, as there is no way to ride faster between pedestrians, your average speed will still be much lower.

 

It's so funny how the distributors here are saying stupid things. It's not so funny if you think it can have a bad impact on the global EUC market and governments attitude.

Please people, THINK about the future of this awesome transportation, not just about yourselves, like most drivers do. Use your brain sometimes.

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7 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Quite frankly, you sound like someone who has never ridden a EUC, more like a angsty/mentally rigid old person who wants to ban anything that didn't exist in 1950.

I just read this, where is the Reddit gold button?

 

Jokes aside, I do embrace your vision of lighter more mobile EUCs and hope that the wheels become more fitting for you and your own needs. At the same time I do believe the more powerful EUCs are definitely here to stay and will hopefully make just as much progress.

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Posted (edited)

For the same motor size and thus motor power, an advantage of lower speed is it will give more torque, which is a good thing for the heavier rider.  I believe if the weight gets below 5kg, it will open up a large market where people will just carry them in their backpack when they are not riding it.

So for Trey Lewis, he can keep 2 eucs, one for chasing rabbits in the forest while the other for easy riding in crowded streets.  Eveyone wins.

 

Edited by hyiu00
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21 hours ago, Trey Lewis said:

I don't believe any one person can say what an EUC should be. I think it should be whatever works for that rider.

100% agree - if everyone wanted / needed the same thing there would only be one type of car / computer / phone... But there isn't! 

Different needs / wants / desires call for different EUC models! 

@Bat... Perhaps chill just a little. 

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I set my adjustable handweights to 17 pounds, hefted it, and thought about being able to carry it.

I don't think it'd be comfortable either in your backpack nor like a briefcase. It just too heavy. It could use a trolley.

However, I would still consider buying this as it would suit most of my needs except perhaps commuting, and just because it'd be slower. It could still commute in a pinch and certainly beats walking or running.

Would I have bought this if it was available over my V5F? Maybe. Probably. Because I see the incredible functionality of a tiny transportation device that is lighter and much tinier than any bicycle, and so much faster than walking.

The V5 is unbelievably useful for moving rapidly around my city. I could see this IPS being even more useful since it is handier and I suppose I could put a trolley stick on it, or slide it inside a laptop backpack. I suspect it is small enough to put it in the slot bag behind the front seat of my car. 

Now I am 5'11" and 215 pounds; as long as the pedals support me I'm not too concerned with the power of the motor as I wouldn't consider riding this wheel rough.

My guess is that this form factor will become the biggest seller of all EUC's because most people want the service of getting to another place using the most reasonably smallest form factor possible.

Is it beautiful? Well, to me, it looks like they took an aluminum and magnesium compact laptop, turned it on edge, and stuck a wheel inside it. So yeah, I think it is quite beautiful.

Let's also think what an amazing accomplishment wheels are. You could take a mid-range wheel and ride it faster with little effort than the fastest man running a marathon. A bicycle is faster but no bicycle can be folded into the slot of a backpack.

I also don't see unicycle like the Iota working well for me because the wheel is too small to navigate sidewalk transitions. I wouldn't want to go much lower than 14 inches; the public sidewalks are littered with the bloody carcasses of boostedboard pilots who discovered first-hand that small diameter PU wheels truly suck for places outside the smooth park path.

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Posted (edited)

On 5/18/2017 at 10:52 AM, Dingfelder said:

I'm not going to address all of your points -- some of which do sound sensible to me.

But it should be pointed out that not everybody uses transportation devices in the same areas and ways.  You seem to come primarily from the assumption of city transport, even mentioning driving on sidewalks full of pedestrians.  However, not everybody is going to do that exclusively or, perhaps, at all.

In the same way that race cars are great but they belong on tracks and not in suburbs, fast speeds and risky behavior on EUC's are dangerous and inappropriate on crowded sidewalks.  But like a race car is not inappropriate on a race track and it's up to the individual to decide how much risk they want to take there, powerful EUC's can be perfectly appropriate in their ideal environments.

For instance, I don't live in a city at all, so there goes the crowded sidewalk aspect of the discussion.  My town can have empty sidewalks even on Friday and Saturday night.  Actually, I don't really want to drive my EUC in the city anyway.  Anywhere I need to go, it is better to go in my car.  

I have good reasons to want a big, powerful EUC.  They limit my choices severely.  But they shouldn't mean no company should build an EUC for me.  

Primary among those reasons is that:

1.  I am over 200 pounds -- very common in America, where the average man is now 190 pounds and the average woman 160, and

2.  I live in an area of connected valleys and steep hills.  My own driveway is one of the steepest slopes around.

Most EUC's, even if they are powerful enough to carry me, would not give me the safety margin or the range or hill climbing ability I would like because of the factors mentioned above.

My main purpose for an EUC is:

3.  Leisure riding in natural settings.  I want to use the EUC to explore the many beautiful parks and trails where I live.  The beauty and quiet of the place is one of the main reasons people want to live here.

That means bumpy trails with tree roots, rocks, loose sticks, etc.  For those things, a tire as big and wide as I can get it sounds ideal. 

That also means climbing uneven surfaces, which again means I need a powerful motor and would benefit a lot from a big chunky tire.

So you see, there is no reason to limit an entire industry just because some people are going to misuse what it produces.  Other people may well have legitimate uses for a product.  There is no reason to suppose out of hand that they would not use it wisely.  

I'm over 50 and work two jobs for a living.  I'm in no position to be a daredevil and have no desire to be one.  Yet I want to ride a EUC.  I intend to ride it safely and at moderate speeds.  I won't usually be riding it around many people, and if I do, I am not an impatient person and my cautious nature will set in and keep me at reasonable speeds.  I'm glad there are EUC models out there that will meet my needs.  It's appropriate that there are.

There is virtually nothing out there people will not misuse.  Pick up almost any item and there will be warnings not to poke yourself in the eye with it or do other such ridiculous mischief ... but if we only made things you couldn't poke yourself in the eye with, we could hardly make anything at all.  

We can't have good lives and successful societies by building to and designing around the lowest common denominator, presupposing everyone a child, incompetent, or fool.

Everything that is consumer oriented is built to the lowest denominator. Newspaper are written at elementary school level. Cars are simple too. Press a button, put it on drive, if you accelerate too hard anti slip takes over. If you brake too hard anti lock takes over, of you lock your keys in the car call on star.  

So yes mass produced products are build so anyone can use them with a elementary school level. 

Entertainment ot tv is for stupid people for the most part. 

Edited by Carlos E Rodriguez
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45 minutes ago, Carlos E Rodriguez said:

Everything that is consumer oriented is built to the lowest denominator. Newspaper are written at elementary school level. Cars are simple too. Press a button, put it on drive, if you accelerate too hard anti slip takes over. If you brake too hard anti lock takes over, of you lock your keys in the car call on star.  

So yes mass produced products are build so anyone can use them with a elementary school level. 

Entertainment ot tv is for stupid people for the most part. 

Some dummies or simply people with poor judgment will slip into every field of endeavor, I don't want to be restricted to only what is appropriate to them.

In return, I don't mind if some things are restricted so that I can't have casual access to them.  I don't need the nuclear launch codes or access to nerve gas and I don't mind such things being kept from me. 

But I think I can be trusted with an EUC strong enough to get me up the hills by my house.  

 

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2 minutes ago, Dingfelder said:

Some dummies or simply people with poor judgment will slip into every field of endeavor, I don't want to be restricted to only what is appropriate to them.

In return, I don't mind if some things are restricted so that I can't have casual access to them.  I don't need the nuclear launch codes or access to nerve gas and I don't mind such things being kept from me. 

But I think I can be trusted with an EUC strong enough to get me up the hills by my house.  

 

I understand but that is the whole point. No one will make a product that it too difficult or too dangerous for majority of people to miss use.  That is why they don't sell full auto guns unless you have a very difficult to get permit. any product that has out of the ordinary capabilities will be priced and regulated so only qualifies persons can actually buy. 

It would be cool to own a jet plane with actual guns and bomb. I would only use it in deserted areas. Well gues what. It's not going to happen. 

Capitalism limits our choices. Thinks are not made for the most part for benefit. Things are made for profit. Otherwise it's a government project tax supported. And capitalism is the current best system. But it's socialist capitalism. Otherwise we all would be slaves to a powerful few. 

So become average or you have to pay for a customs design like rich people do. 

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In America, I am average, though, or close to it.  

If the market decides there is no point in building to the needs of the average American, then I will be out of luck.

But it has not decided that.  I just bought a wheel last week.

Considering that I've never even seen a EUC in real life, I believe there is still plenty of market potential in the U.S., because the market is almost untapped.

But if they want to tap it in a big way, they're going to have to build and test machines suited to American needs, or the EUC will have a very hard time taking off.  There is plenty of money being left on the table.  The industry just needs to decide they want to take it.

I believe the EUC industry is still in its infancy, not a mature technology and marketplace yet.

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On 5/18/2017 at 7:12 PM, Trey Lewis said:

At the same time I do believe the more powerful EUCs are definitely here to stay and will hopefully make just as much progress.

Currently the larger, more powerful wheels in the EUC market seem to be where most of the growth is occurring. That does not disparage companies introducing new 14-inch models like IPS and KingSong. As several mentioned already, there are different uses and reasons to want different sizes of wheels. I suspect most Msuper customers did not buy this primarily to ride on crowded city sidewalks.

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IPS S5 Announcement - 16 inch I5 sibling with higher performance.

According to https://www.electricunicycles.eu/ips_i5_and_s5_the_new_electric_unicycles_from_ips-c__253 IPS has a second new EUC in the making, the S5 model. Supposedly a similar magnesium-alloy shell, but 16", more power and more battery. Dunno anything further, sorry.

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I see Apogee is advertising them as in stock for 700+ dollars.

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Tony Lee (ipselectricunicycle.com) is advertising the i5 for $699 shipped and taxed for the larger battery option and $639 with the smaller battery... Quite a bargain I think.

Edited by Slaughthammer
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Also, when I inquired about the other more powerful wheel that is teased on their site I was informed that is has a lot of time left until any details are released at all.  I am very excited for that model though.

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On 2017/5/17 at 2:37 AM, Tilmann said:

Dear @rayna903, please correct me where I'm wrong. My sources for this post are https://www.facebook.com/1593003297614828/videos/1875867519328403 and http://www.iamips.com/product/showproduct.php?lang=cn&id=31.

 

Apparently, IPS is about to release a new EUC called "i5", available in two models using either the common 18650 or the slightly larger 20700 batteries.

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It seems to be a "last mile" solution for lighter users with 350W rated /1000W max. motor power and just one pack of batteries (16S1P). While that sounds like very ordinary entry level, the shell design is uniquely flat and apparently made from some magnesium-alloy, which takes all the structural forces while keeping the total weight below 8Kg. Batteries appear to be Panasonic 20700B with 4250mAh. 

While it is certainly not a performance beast in any dimension, I think it's quite an interesting approach for the light & casual user. I am very curious for feedback from everyday users on how the new shell holds up and whether those 20700B batteries might be an option for higher performance wheels, too. 

20700 battery is Panasonic latest battery, it is used for some Tesla. It is more powerful comparing with the previous battery in same volume. Maybe we will use it in the next generation wheel. 

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On 2017/5/17 at 3:26 AM, meepmeepmayer said:

Very interesting!

Not sure why so many manufacturers go for the light and slim route (see Uniwheel), whereas the bigger and stronger wheels seem to sell like crazy as soon as they are released.

But the suitcase-like design starting to emerge here is very interesting, towards "office looking", "professional", "business", maybe even flight-compatible light commute wheels.

Is the board in the box, or where else is it?

Does it not have a retractable handle?

Yes, the board is in the wheel, but we research and develop a different board for I5. And there is no retractable handle, the metal handle is in the wheel, it is one piece now. So that you may feel it lighter when you carry it.

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On 2017/5/17 at 7:04 AM, Rehab1 said:

Cute! So where is the padding? I see this funky little shaped red pill in the area where your ankles would sit ( probably for the pedals) but zero padding for the calves. With the narrow shell profile and no padding my knees would be banging into each other when performing sharp turns or navigating any bumpy terrain.

As @meepmeepmayer alluded to the design has a professional looking, expensive, aesthetic, business like appearance. It has Trump written all over it!:P

 

Well it is totally different with the previous wheels, so that you can change your mind to ride it, when you ride it is not need to lean against the wheel, just like you stand. Really I guess you can try it.

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On 2017/5/17 at 7:41 AM, steve454 said:

Very cool, very thin, looks like a Kingsong 18 with the tall sides.  Shows that IPS is still in the market.  The bigger batteries seem to get quite a bit more range at the same top speed.

Yes, we are always in the market, and thanks for your support. We will do better.

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On 2017/5/17 at 10:09 AM, The Fat Unicyclist said:

It could be worse... it could look like a Roomba! 

haha, Roomba? 

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On 2017/5/17 at 10:33 AM, Rehab1 said:

There is definitely a rigid pedal support but I can't see how much it is reinforced. Alloys can be strong if there are adequate stringers especially behind the pedal mount.

 

Yes, we have make some special to make that strong enough to support the body weight or some jumping activities. I will release some videos to show how can we test it is strong.

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