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Moving away from Gotway...giving Kingsong a try


Sketch
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4 minutes ago, Sketch said:

A few months ago, I decided to sell my Gotway  820wh Msuper and ACM to upgrade to the 1300 ACM and the MsuperV3s+.  I put my order in at ewheels and have been eagerly awaiting their arrival.  A few weeks ago, I started reading about all the drama with the Gotway problems you all have read about I'm sure.  With these safety concerns, I really started getting worried. I learned to ride on a Kingsong 14c and wanted to buy a ks18, but they weren't available at the time.  I opted to buy the Gotway wheels and really enjoyed them.  I have 3 of my children that are proficient riders and we enjoy our trips together.  Not wanting to put my kids on wheels I knew were having issues,  a week ago I decided to cancel my Gotway order and Jason was kind enough to let me switch my order to the KS16s 840wh and KS18s 1680wh arriving in a couple of weeks.  Reading about @Marty Backe and his latest problem and fall on his  Msuperv3s+, I'm glad I made the switch.  (Marty, I hope your wrist feels better...makes me mad that Gotway puts out this stuff and lies about having it fixed) I know Kingsong is not perfect, but I figure it was time to make the switch.  I'm sure I'll miss some things about Gotway, but I'm looking forward to giving Kingsong a try again.  I'll make sure I give my opinion on How Kingsong is treating me.

Matt

I certainly can't fault your logic choices. And I still really like my KS14C.

I sure wish KingSong had a long range version of their KS16 wheel. I know they don't want to go to 84 volts but I wonder why they don't at least compete with Gotway in terms of range.

I suspect you won't have any problems with your wheels.

:cheers:

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1 hour ago, Sketch said:

@Dingfelder I hope so.  I figured I don't ever go more than 22mph and hopefully they will be reliable.  I always wanted to guve these two wheels a try so it seems like the right time.

I'll be interesting in hearing how you adapt to the KS18 after so much riding on the MSuper. I think the MSuper is more comfortable, but I've only ridden the KS18 a few times. Let me know how the two compare after you've been on it a few hours.

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12 minutes ago, LanghamP said:

A KS16s vs Inmotion V8 would be a sweet comparison review. Those two wheels might presently be the finest wheels on the market after reading their reviews.

Everybody talks about how great the Inmotion wheels are.  They would have been at the top of my list or extremely close to it if they carried higher weights easily.  

Quite often I envy indeed the options that anybody less than large has.  I'm not even that large by American/European standards.  But I've never felt comfortable at a countertop in my life and half the cars out there are too small for me.

Anyway count your blessings, moderately-sized humans!

 

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Edited by Dingfelder
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@Sketch 

As you are used to other 18" and other wheels, you will adapt to the 16s very soon!

the Ks18 you have to give for sure a bit more time, as in its drive behavior its unique because of its height!

but once you are adapted to it...its the stablest 18" i know!

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2 minutes ago, KingSong69 said:

@Sketch 

As you are used to other 18" and other wheels, you will adapt to the 16s very soon!

the Ks18 you have to give for sure a bit more time, as in its drive behavior its unique because of its height!

but once you are adapted to it...its the stablest 18" i know!

Really?  That's cool.  

I have a love thing going on for the KS18.  I really love how high it is, for the seated option.  It's hard not to picture myself on one, one day.  I do wish they would plop the bigger battery in it though.

If I had infinite moniez I would get both the MSuper and the KS18s.

 

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23 minutes ago, Dingfelder said:

I have a love thing going on for the KS18.  I really love how high it is, for the seated option.  It's hard not to picture myself on one, one day.  I do wish they would plop the bigger battery in it though.

plop a bigger batteery in the Ks18??? isn't 1680wh enough?

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5 minutes ago, KingSong69 said:

plop a bigger batteery in the Ks18??? isn't 1680wh enough?

Sorry I've been up all night working ... I meant the 84.2v motors like Gotway has.

Anyway I want as much power and battery life as possible to tug my weight up hills.  Gotway still appears to have the lead in that respect.

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Just now, Dingfelder said:

Sorry I've been up all night working ... I meant the 84.2v motors like Gotway has.

Anyway I want as much power and battery life as possible to tug my weight up hills.  Gotway still appears to have the lead in that respect.

Yeah, they have the lead in 84Volt powerful wheels....which burn the wires/connectors, firmware problems etc... ;-)

I think in long term to stack up more and more batteries is not useful or lets say also has its disadvantages....perhaps some more things will come up, also? (lifetime, who knows?....)

I was with 105kg very heavy some months ago...never had probs on any hills on my (first series)Ks18 1200W.

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1 hour ago, KingSong69 said:

Yeah, they have the lead in 84Volt powerful wheels....which burn the wires/connectors, firmware problems etc... ;-)

I think in long term to stack up more and more batteries is not useful or lets say also has its disadvantages....perhaps some more things will come up, also? (lifetime, who knows?....)

I was with 105kg very heavy some months ago...never had probs on any hills on my (first series)Ks18 1200W.

I think if Kingsong would do it, they would do it right, though.

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3 hours ago, KingSong69 said:

Yeah, they have the lead in 84Volt powerful wheels....which burn the wires/connectors, firmware problems etc... ;-)

I think in long term to stack up more and more batteries is not useful or lets say also has its disadvantages....perhaps some more things will come up, also? (lifetime, who knows?....)

I was with 105kg very heavy some months ago...never had probs on any hills on my (first series)Ks18 1200W.

To be fair (which is odd since I'm about to dump on Gotway), the 67 volt Gotway's also burn the wires and have firmware problems. I don't think the 84v design has anything to do with their problems of the last few months.

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1 hour ago, Marty Backe said:

To be fair (which is odd since I'm about to dump on Gotway), the 67 volt Gotway's also burn the wires and have firmware problems. I don't think the 84v design has anything to do with their problems of the last few months.

Yes, sure, that was just a bit ironic...

For all others and especially @Dingfelder @Sketch , perhaps also @abinder3:

Just about an hour ago i have a visit of another german forum member, driving 16" newest IPS Lhotz, selfmade 520wh, but driven some other wheels also, and -as i found - he was a very, very good driver, backwards capabilty, easy adjusting to my wheels and so on...

SHORT conclusion of his statements/drive feelings of both my (old)Ks18 1200wh and the v3 67volt (but with 84volt wider shell)!

Both wheels he drived first time today, both where set on hardest ride mode:

- he found both wheels extremely powerful in accelerating and braking, the Ks18 in front especially in braking

- the v3 to have a "play" when standing, decribed by others as relativly soft pedal

- in general the KS18 as "more comfortable" and easier, stable to ride, as he found the v3(wide shell!) to bulky

- just for sharp turns the V3 easier, as the height of Ks18 for starters on the wheel is harder to tilt to a side

- the Ks18 extreme hard to "idle" when changing from backwards to forward ( even i have hard time doing that, as the Ks18 in idling is very sluggish)

- in general not imagining that more power and speed as this both wheels can provide is ever needed!

If he had had to choose today he would have taken the KS18 as the winner.......

I have to say: I was extremely surprised by this/HIS decision, as in general or normally i found/hear the Ks18 to be the more "special" and more "need to get used to". wheel...but the comfort and stability of the ride made it for him the clear winner!

This here is just written as a momentum of a new to both wheels forum member and NO advertising for the KS18!

Even i can not say which of my wheels is better, both have their dis- and advantages...so just take it as what it is.

Another opinion :-)

Edited by KingSong69
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2 minutes ago, KingSong69 said:

Yes, sure, that was just a bit ironic...

For all others and especially @Dingfelder @Sketch , perhaps also @abinder3:

Just about an hour ago i have a visit of another german forum member, driving 16" newest IPS Lhotz, selfmade 520wh, but driven some other wheels also, and -as i found - he was a very, very good driver, backwards capabilty, easy adjusting to my wheels and so on...

SHORT conclusion of his statements/drive feelings of both my (old)Ks18 1200wh and the v3 67volt (but with 84volt wider shell)!

Both wheels he drived first time today, both where set on hardest ride mode:

- he found both wheels extremely powerful in accelerating and braking, the Ks18 in front especially in braking

- the v3 to have a "play" when standing, decribed by others as relativly soft pedal

- in general the KS18 as "more comfortable" and easier, stable to ride, as he found the v3(wide shell!) to bulky

- just for sharp turns the V3 easier, as the height of Ks18 for starters on the wheel is harder to tilt to a side

- the Ks18 extreme hard to "idle" when changing from backwards to forward ( even i have hard time doing that, as the Ks18 in idling is very sluggish)

- in general not imagining that more power and speed as this both wheels can provide is ever needed!

If he had had to choose today he would have taken the KS18 as the winner.......

I have to say: I was extremely surprised by this/HIS decision, as in general or normally i found/hear the Ks18 to be the more "special" and more "need to get used" to....but the comfort and stability of the ride made it for him the clear winner!

This here is just written as a momentum of a new to both wheels forum member and NO advertising for the KS18!

Even i can not say which of my wheels is better, both have their dis- and advantages...so just take it as what it is.

Another opinion :-)

Very interesting. There have been very few detailed comparison reviews between the two wheels, so I enjoyed this.

I would really like to hear from someone who owns the 84v MSuper and the new KS18S, and has ridden them extensively.

I'm tempted to buy one, even more so because I don't have a working 18" wheel. Hell, I only have the Monster right now :crying:   Thank God I've maintained a backup to my backup to my main wheel. I'm on my last backup wheel :cry2:

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1 hour ago, Marty Backe said:

would really like to hear from someone who owns the 84v MSuper and the new KS18S, and has ridden them extensively.

Hope i can tell you more about this in latest 3 weeks......

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1 hour ago, KingSong69 said:

Yes, sure, that was just a bit ironic...

For all others and especially @Dingfelder @Sketch , perhaps also @abinder3:

Just about an hour ago i have a visit of another german forum member, driving 16" newest IPS Lhotz, selfmade 520wh, but driven some other wheels also, and -as i found - he was a very, very good driver, backwards capabilty, easy adjusting to my wheels and so on...

SHORT conclusion of his statements/drive feelings of both my (old)Ks18 1200wh and the v3 67volt (but with 84volt wider shell)!

Both wheels he drived first time today, both where set on hardest ride mode:

- he found both wheels extremely powerful in accelerating and braking, the Ks18 in front especially in braking

- the v3 to have a "play" when standing, decribed by others as relativly soft pedal

- in general the KS18 as "more comfortable" and easier, stable to ride, as he found the v3(wide shell!) to bulky

- just for sharp turns the V3 easier, as the height of Ks18 for starters on the wheel is harder to tilt to a side

- the Ks18 extreme hard to "idle" when changing from backwards to forward ( even i have hard time doing that, as the Ks18 in idling is very sluggish)

- in general not imagining that more power and speed as this both wheels can provide is ever needed!

If he had had to choose today he would have taken the KS18 as the winner.......

I have to say: I was extremely surprised by this/HIS decision, as in general or normally i found/hear the Ks18 to be the more "special" and more "need to get used to". wheel...but the comfort and stability of the ride made it for him the clear winner!

This here is just written as a momentum of a new to both wheels forum member and NO advertising for the KS18!

Even i can not say which of my wheels is better, both have their dis- and advantages...so just take it as what it is.

Another opinion :-)

Hey, thanks for the flowers, calling me a very good driver :-) I've got a bit over 800km under my belt so far, I can do a little sketchy and wobbly backwards riding... nothing fancy.

Some additions I want to make: bulkier shell of the MSV3 probably just takes a bit getting used to, whereas the higher shell of th KS18 will always reduce tight maneuvering. Initially I felt the KS18 is easier to get around a curve, a wheel that gave me immediately a comfortable and secure feeling. The MSV3 requires more input to make it deviate from a straight line. and the mentioned play or neutral zone feels weired at the beginning. Once going, both wheels felt dead solid. Didn't test acceleration and braking to the extremes, but it seemed to me that they are both on paar, substatially more powerfull than my Lhotz. You practically don't have to worry how much power you have at your disposal, it's just enough. Side note, I'm not into particularly fast riding, I luckily stay below 30 kph, and I have no problem slowing down on hills, and here in northern Germany there are no extreme hills.

So, if I think about this a bit longer, it is quite a close call between these two. Probably I wouldn't buy either of both. Two reasons: too big and heavy, too noisy. My Lhotz is so nice and quiet when it's not beeping, I don't want to miss that in a wheel. And I really hate that 7 kHz PWM noise, and no, it doesn't disappear under the wind noise, at least not for me.

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@Slaughthammer

I did not call you by name before, as i didn't asked for any allowance;-)

Ok, i really had that with the noise totally forgotten, as nowadays all modern wheels i have driven had that sound. When driving, i did not realise it  anymore....its just "outblended"!

But really, that are no "flowers" .....for getting on a new, for you unused wheel, you were really, really fast!!! Adjusting to each wheel was just a few seconds for you! Havent seen that, especially on the Ks18, before!

so at least i hope, i described the rest of our short tour and what you think about these wheels well or exactly enough and did not state anything false. Otherwise tell me, and i will edit the notes i have done!

Like said, if you are nearby again, and would like to go for a short run, just message me! Got some nice other directiosn, a bit more offroad style like, also!

 

Edited by KingSong69
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9 hours ago, Dingfelder said:

Everybody talks about how great the Inmotion wheels are.  They would have been at the top of my list or extremely close to it if they carried higher weights easily.  

I weigh 215 and have occasionally carried a 120 pound woman up some hills on my V5. I stopped such silliness but the wheel can support some pretty high weights.

Really, if you're skeptical about the MSuper then I'd suggest just getting a KS16S (never rode one). Cheaper and more reliable, more stable and safer than my KS14C, much more portable and practical than my MSuper.

Edited by LanghamP
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5 hours ago, KingSong69 said:

If he had had to choose today he would have taken the KS18 as the winner.......

I have to say: I was extremely surprised by this/HIS decision, as in general or normally i found/hear the Ks18 to be the more "special" and more "need to get used to". wheel...but the comfort and stability of the ride made it for him the clear winner!

I am still in awe how natural and instantly "at home" the KS18 felt for me. I can see perfectly clear why they chose this tall design for the wheel: it feels very natural to use your knees to transfer your forward lean on the wheel. With the big diameter wheels and comparably small footplates, there is a limited leverage to counter the torque of the wheel. Just remember, bigger wheel results in higher torque for the same propulsion force. (This is by the way the explanation why the monster rides stiffer than the MSV3, or why smaller wheels climb hills easier, just take a look at the geometries and levers...) So when you get tired of standing on the balls of your feet to drive the wheel forward, you give the tall shell a gentle nudge with your knees and your feet are all of a sudden relieved, testing comfortably neutral on the pedals. For me this felt totally natural.

Edited by Slaughthammer
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2 hours ago, Slaughthammer said:

I am still in awe how natural and instantly "at home" the KS18 felt for me. I can see perfectly clear why they chose this tall design for the wheel: it feels very natural to use your knees to transfer your forward lean on the wheel. With the big diameter wheels and comparably small footplates, there is a limited leverage to counter the torque of the wheel. Just remember, bigger wheel results in higher torque for the same propulsion force. (This is by the way the explanation why the monster rides stiffer than the MSV3, or why smaller wheels climb hills easier, just take a look at the geometries and levers...) So when you get tired of standing on the balls of your feet to drive the wheel forward, you give the tall shell a gentle nudge with your knees and your feet are all of a sudden relieved, testing comfortably neutral on the pedals. For me this felt totally natural.

Hey @Slaughthammer - do you think your comfort level riding the KS18 was related to your usual ride being the Lhotz?

I find my Lhotz quite different to ride than other wheels (due to the design) and I am wondering whether it is more "similar" to the KS18...

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@The Fat Unicyclist I don't think so. In fact, I think the KS18 is quite the opposite of the lhotz, which feels in comparison really tiny between your feet/legs. IMHO the MSV3 feels more similar to the lhotz, just bigger and less agile. But I havn't ridden many other 16" wheels, so I can't tell for sure...

 

Edited by Slaughthammer
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