Another Vancouver electric rider busted

[Hatchet]

http://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/vancouver-mans-first-ride-on-electric-skateboard-ends-with-600-ticket

Same motorcycle cop as harassed me busted this poor guy on a V2 Boosted Board on his way to work. Handed him a $600 fine. Shop that sold it takes NO responsibility for not warning him.

How is it NOT entrapment to allow the sale, (with no warning) of a $2,200 item which is then illegal the second he walks out of the store?

I have written the author of the piece and sent it to the local sellers, and I emailed LongBoarder labs (who sold it to the victim) to ask if they are going to help us change the law, or just take the money (diplomatically though of course!) and continue to ignore their customers paying a heavy price due to not knowing.

Vancouver -  Home of the combustion engine and jack-booted law to keep it that way! Don't believe the "green" crap, it's all lies in this city.

I'll be next, eventually this cop WILL see me again 

 

[esaj]

I wonder how we're going to hit the 2030 emission targets, if people aren't allowed to go electric? Although I don't know if Canada is on board with that, Trump already backed US out. AFAIK, here one of the reasons of having the law changes for all sorts of electric vehicles sped up has been the target to reduce traffic emissions, which make up a large chunk of the carbon emissions. If they expect people to just take up on walking, bicycling and public transportation, the reductions will far very short from the targets.

[Hatchet]

I happen to support Trump's exit from that ridiculous wealth transfer they called a Paris Accord.

However, on a local level, there can be no doubt that fewer cars is better for everyone, less death, less carbon, less bad all around. I'm talking cities here, not rural. Plus we have bike lanes everywhere.

A skateboard is fine, but a skateboard with manual control and brakes is not allowed? idiocy on a level only a gov't bureaucrat could conceive.

It is ridiculous, I see electric skateboards, scooters etc all the damn time. They just going to allow people to buy these things and what? Set up around the corner to nail the dastardly Electric riders as they leave? Might as well.

I wish we had liberty in Canada like the Americans do. 

[LanghamP]

For most people in most states (not all) the automobile is the biggest energy consumer device people own. Not including the cost to build it, the yearly consumption of fuel exceeds most or all other items.

Electric cars are so much more energy efficient but wheels and skateboards are on another level entirely though they can be somewhat impractical. My personal use shows crazy conservation. I fill up my car like twice now over the past three months after I bought an EUC.

I now use the line that if you really care about the environment then you'll learn to use an EUC; otherwise you're just talk with no doing.

[Rehab1]

1 hour ago, Hatchet said:

I wish we had liberty in Canada like the Americans do. 

Canada would be a very nice place to live! It is interesting when I think of all the Hollywood celebrities that pledged to leave the US if Trump became president have now decided to stay.

[Hatchet]

38 minutes ago, Rehab1 said:

Canada would be a very nice place to live! It is interesting when I think of all the Hollywood celebrities that pledged to leave the US if Trump became president have now decided to stay.

We...uh..we're full up on celebs..sorry. Yeah, we ..um have sooo many already, no room for even a single Hollywood airheaded ditz bimbo / mimbo. Seriously, we're full.

..to sweeten the deal, you can keep Shatner and Drake, and we'll take Beiber back in 2045.

 

[dbfrese]

7 minutes ago, Hatchet said:

Seriously, we're full.

Take Bieber back now, then we'll talk about the rest!  

[Hatchet]

Update: http://bc.ctvnews.ca/video?playlistId=1.3453938

Daniel was on CTV news and did a great job!

I had sent this story to a local seller who is fighting the city about this, he reached out to Daniel via Facebook and it looks like he is getting some support, awesome!!

The business owner has a riding group and I guess they have two tickets among them too, it would seem we got an overzealous cop in Vancouver going rogue.

 

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

Face it - we're the real, serious criminals breaking the law here.    They must see us as major threats to impose such high fines due to us endangering society with our reckless, high speed motorized vehicles.  Heck, I'll admit that I've taken a few lives while riding.  It's hard to zip around those little bugs crossing on the pathway!  

Even though most bicyclists ride faster or at similar speeds as we do, we're the real threat to innocent babies, children, and pregnant women in our paths.  They need to direct more of the police force towards catching us as other crimes should take lower precedence.  Forget those jokers driving at 160 kph in 100 kph speed zones.  Only electric pedal assist bicycles and handicapped personal mobility devices should be allowed in public ever.  Taxpayer dollars are better spent trying to take us down.  They need to flood the courts with more cases involving EUCs, hoverboards, and electric skateboarders.  Only then will justice truly be served.

I'm going to report my neighbor who allows his kids to ride around in an electric Escalade mini-car.  Cute as it is, that thing shouldn't be on the road or sidewalk.  It's technically an unlicensed and uninsured motor vehicle.  They deserve at least a $600 fine too.

I say own it.  I'm a hard core criminal in the eyes of the law.    I'm still going to ride,  but I'll stay in the shadows and hidden pathways for now.  Maybe I'll even indulge in an illegal game of street hockey.  I'm just a rebel looking for a good cause.  Other days I'll drive around in my gas guzzling insured V6 if that makes the police and law-makers happier.  

 

[Dingfelder]

12 hours ago, esaj said:

I wonder how we're going to hit the 2030 emission targets, if people aren't allowed to go electric? Although I don't know if Canada is on board with that, Trump already backed US out. AFAIK, here one of the reasons of having the law changes for all sorts of electric vehicles sped up has been the target to reduce traffic emissions, which make up a large chunk of the carbon emissions. If they expect people to just take up on walking, bicycling and public transportation, the reductions will far very short from the targets.

Especially with public transportation's problems, like:

1.  Limited routes

2.  Limited hours of operation

3.  Huge crowds can make traveling very uncomfortable and nerve-wracking

4.  Huge crowds can overwhelm capacity

5.  Indifferent to poor heating, cooling, and air circulation (this is worse than one might guess at first glance)

6.  Poor policing on some lines/during some hours

7.  Poor sanitation on some lines

8.  Well ... people.  You don't usually meet many jerks when you're alone in your car, and the only bad breath is your own.

[Dingfelder]

11 hours ago, Hatchet said:

I wish we had liberty in Canada like the Americans do. 

I wish we had common sense all over.  There is no need for fines to be so incredibly punitive.  A fine that would have fun $25 when I was a kid can run dozens of times that now.

And there should be a reasonable expectation of some sort of harm being caused before cities try to sink their claws into you so punitively, too.  

[Dingfelder]

11 hours ago, LanghamP said:

Electric cars are so much more energy efficient but wheels and skateboards are on another level entirely though they can be somewhat impractical. My personal use shows crazy conservation. I fill up my car like twice now over the past three months after I bought an EUC.

I now use the line that if you really care about the environment then you'll learn to use an EUC; otherwise you're just talk with no doing.

Well if that prompts people to think a little more about their effect on the environment, that's great.

It does sound much more oriented toward a city-dweller's perspective.  People in small towns or even less affluent areas in big cities are much further away from shopping.  For some, the price of gas is such that they have to load up when they go shopping, too, which makes a EUC out of the question.

Dwellers in smaller towns and outlying areas often have to travel much rougher, and more poorly maintained roads to get where they're going, too.  Here in the Pacific Northwest, we can also expect to spend many months in rainy weather and muddy, rain-engorged roadways.  There are vast chunks of the country, whether urban or rural, that aren't EUC-friendly.  

And of course we can't expect mothers and fathers to take their kids to school on an EUC, or for the elderly to use them.

So I still see EUC's as very niche, and as necessarily remaining niche regardless of the public attitude toward them.  Something that exposes you to weather, injury, may impose an additional expense in a difficult and uncertain economic environment, may dramatically increase your travel time in an already time-starved busy world, and will leave you with the ability to carry only what a backpack will allow, cannot be of universal benefit.  

I still think of EUC owners as the lucky ones, who perhaps can do a little bit more.    

 

[Hatchet]

What really grinds my gears is the cop didn't fine him for riding a non-authorized motor vehicle or whatever wacky thing. The cop fined him $600 for not having insurance which does not exist! It is a cash scam. I think this cop has a quota and sees electric riders as easy meat. Most are young or have no clue of the trap the city and this cop have set.

IOW, Daniel got fined for not having a product that is impossible to obtain. Outrageous!

Can we be fined for NOT having a 3 eyed spaghetti monster too? How about a unicorn fine? I certainly have been lax in buying my unicorns.

[FULspeed]

Haha, we are doing better in Italy! .   Here 1200€ (~1345$)  for an hoverboard circulating on a city sidewalk...

No comment!

[LanghamP]

2 hours ago, Hatchet said:

It is a cash scam. I think this cop has a quota and sees electric riders as easy meat. Most are young or have no clue of the trap the city and this cop have set.

I looked up the laws about EUC use for a few of my local counties. What I discovered was enough to turn my coal-black right-wing Trump-voting heart ever so slightly Socialists, just on the fairness principle of blind justice alone.

It's extremely hostile towards poor (read: black) people. For the more affluent neighborhoods (read: white/Asian) EUC use and Segways are encouraged while in the poor neighborhoods <anything> is heavily restricted and fined. I mean, they forbid bicycles on most of the public roads. Presumably you could walk them...

I did mention in another post that I got a $100 parking ticket in a black neighborhood.

My lying cheating eyes tell me that poor neighborhoods = outrageous fines because poor people don't make enough income to pay income tax (though they pay the huge regressive Medicare/FICA tax).

 

[kour]

17 hours ago, Hatchet said:

I wish we had liberty in Canada like the Americans do. 

yeah, that really blows dude - if my state ever decides to keep eucs off the road i'll have to start investigating an exit strategy!

also, someone on the d.c. meetup thread did some research and apparently eucs aren't allowed on bike paths?!

here's virginia law:

1) "Electric personal assistive mobility device" means a self-balancing two-nontandem-wheeled device that is designed to transport only one person and powered by an electric propulsion system that limits the device's maximum speed to 15 miles per hour or less. For purposes of Chapter 8 (§ 46.2-800 et seq.), an electric personal assistive mobility device shall be a vehicle when operated on a highway.

2) "Motorized skateboard or foot-scooter" means every vehicle, regardless of the number of its wheels in contact with the ground, that (i) has no seat, but is designed to be stood upon by the operator, (ii) has no manufacturer-issued vehicle identification number, and (iii) is powered by an electric motor having an input of no more than 1,000 watts or a gasoline engine that displaces less than 36 cubic centimeters. "Motorized skateboard or foot-scooter" includes vehicles with or without handlebars but does not include "electric personal assistive mobility devices."

so it seems an euc is not, in virginia, considered an electric personal assistive mobility device but falls under motorized skateboard/foot-scooter

[Dingfelder]

5 hours ago, LanghamP said:

My lying cheating eyes tell me that poor neighborhoods = outrageous fines because poor people don't make enough income to pay income tax (though they pay the huge regressive Medicare/FICA tax).

 

No, it's because they can't defend themselves and nobody cares.  If you tried to give that many tickets in a rich neighborhood you'd be out of a job, from cop to judge.

[Scatcat]

Well... here in our "socialist" Sweden , the law was changed in 2010. The current rules for Segways, EUCs, Electric Skateboards and other electric personal vehicles, while a bit fuzzy around the edges, say:

• They're basically counted as electrically assisted bikes, with some fuzzy idea of them being able to run on pedestrian lanes too in some cases.
• If you're under 15, helmets are mandatory.
• If you drive in the dark, lights and reflexes are mandatory. The lights should be visible for others at 300m, and sufficient for a safe drive.
• You need some form of signal, a bell, horn or whatever.
• Legal speed is ≤ 25kph, maybe ≤ 20kph, that is also a bit fuzzy...

So overall a rather reasonable set of rules.

[Dingfelder]

2 hours ago, Scatcat said:

 

• You need some form of signal, a bell, horn or whatever.

I'm interested in how you think EUC riders might best comply in that regard.  

[LanghamP]

1 hour ago, Dingfelder said:

I'm interested in how you think EUC riders might best comply in that regard.  

I occasionally carry a mechanical air horn to ward off dogs. It's just a compressed air can with a horn screwed into it.

Dunno which one I have but it's similar to this.

Falcon Safety Super Sound Horn https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0000AXTVF/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_pflqzb0F9A271

 

 

[Dingfelder]

10 minutes ago, LanghamP said:

I occasionally carry a mechanical air horn to ward off dogs. It's just a compressed air can with a horn screwed into it.

Dunno which one I have but it's similar to this.

Falcon Safety Super Sound Horn https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0000AXTVF/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_pflqzb0F9A271

 

 

That seems like a nice non-lethal/minimal impact defense.  

And unlike a mace sprayer, it can't come right back in your face if the wind is coming toward you.  Which I guess, on a EUC is most always ...

[LanghamP]

I used it on a bicycle but it wasn't that effective since I needed to have one hand free. I actually bought it for a particular dog that would chase me and once intercepted and hit me.

While I occasionally ride with it I've never used it because by the time I figured out I should use it it's too late and I'm off the EUC. What am I going to do? Blast the dog and the owner?

When behind pedestrians most of the time I just go very slow behind them until they notice and get out of the way, or if there's enough room and it's safe I squeeze by them very very slowly. Occasionally I do chat with them if they express interest in the wheel.

I do this because bicyclist are often soooo aggressive and hostile towards pedestrians. When I was in Germany bicyclist usually weren't (the occasional Berlin young woman with the strong "ich-e" accent would be pretty aggressive, though) but in the USA the spandex-clad racer type bicyclist are total dickwads to pedestrians.

[Scatcat]

I carry a normal bike bell, the small type with a bell and a ringer on a spring on the side. While not ideal, it's still a lot more effective than shouting "pling pling" at bikers and pedestrians.

[Dingfelder]

I accidentally ordered some noisemakers from Amazon.  I'll try them out and see if they look okay. I also accidentally ordered a stun gun.  It's too bulky to carry around though, I think.  But it would be kinder than some of the alternatives.

[kasenutty]

Accidentally