Michael Vu Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 I am back from Las Vegas after attending the Consumer Electronics Show (CES) and here to report on EUCs as I did last year. Unfortunately the showings of EUCs has dramatically decreased from last year. Kingsong dropped out this year. Only EUC companies that were there were Segway (ninebot), Swagtron, and Jyro. Fastwheel and Airwheel were there too but they weren't even displaying any EUCs but instead focusing on skateboards and 2 wheel scooters. And I didn't see one EUC from any other cheap chinese brand. It's a telling sign on the poor general mass market state of EUCs. Even the companies that were displaying EUCs did not focus on them which I'll go into more here. Skip to the very bottom for videos. I bought my Msuper V3 and Kingsong 16A with me to Vegas. Shipped it by Fedex which the shipping wasn't too expensive. Would be much better to just take it on the plane.... but anyways on to the EUCs. Segway (Ninebot) So after ninebot bought Segway, they quickly realized that Segway has more branding power than Ninebot. Hence why officially Segway Inc. was listed for CES and not Ninebot. They were showing off the Ninebot One S1 and had a young kid ride it around in their booth. Unfortunately the old head honcho would not allow me to ride it at all even after signing their waiver to ride their products. He was basically an asshole to me about it and basically did not believe/trust me that I could ride an EUC. Even after he saw my gotway and kingsong, he argued back to me "Oh I see you already have wheels yourself, you don't need to try the ninebot"...... most arrogant stupid crap I've ever heard when the entire point of going to a show like this is to promote and sell your product. He also said they offer training on their large two wheels with handles Segway but not the S1. This furthers hammer home that there is no push to get EUCs on the mass market when the biggest company with an EUC actively shuts potential customers down test rides and instead offer rides and training for their non-EUC products. Segway just left a very bad taste in my mouth after that and now I'm more motivated to show off the capabilities of the EUC anytime I see a Segway rolling down the street now. Jyro So at the corner of the hall was this new American company called Jyro. They had a whole product line of scooters, one wheel skateboards, and EUCs. But all of their products are just Chinese OEM rebranding. And in the case of their EUCs, they were just the Inmotion V3 and Inmotion V5F. The main marketing guy even admitted that they were Inmotion products but that they adjusted the firmware of their wheels and that they have an app (which he wouldn't show me). Both wheels felt exactly like the regular Inmotion products though. Oh and no one at their booth could ride and show off the EUCs. One of their employees barely was able to ride the twin-wheel V3. Oh and their one wheel skateboard is basically a knock-off of One Wheel. SWAGTRON The people at Swagtron really have a lot of money and marketing going for them. They were one of the first ones to jump on the "hoverboard" craze by offering their "Swagway". With the implosion of "hoverboards" this past year, they really have doubled down on not only staying in the market but offer new revised "better" hoverboards and just new ridables which include their EUC, the "Swag Roller"..... which again is basically an InMotion V3. Although they did change it enough to where it does look a little nicer. They did get UL certification though which they proudly displayed at their booth. They also displayed their booth babes riding around on all their products (except for the EUC) and also had the hoverboard boy dancing group do their dancing routine on their hoverboards. Like Jyro, no one could ride the EUC. But after the dance group finished their routine, I showed those guys Damien Gaumet's EUC trick video and they were blown away by it and immediately started to try to ride the EUC. So maybe this year we might see a dance video featuring EUCs by them? Swagtron's EUC basically rode like the Inmotion V3. They said they were going to sell it for $400 but didn't have any plan to release it. Special Treats HONDA actually brought their self balancing seated "EUC" the uni-cub. I first saw this over 5 years ago and was excited to see it displayed and even more excited to actually ride it. it handled similar to an EUC but this one also balances left and right for you. Because of that, it is possible to strafe left and right but I was never able to fully strafe with my time on it. But it was still very easy to ride but with just a top speed of 4 mph. I almost overleaned the unit by testing its speed while another guy actually did bust his ass trying to do the same. Another fun treat was when I ran into RYNO Motor guys on the sidewalk outside of the Convention. First time I've even seen these in person although I didn't ride. It was very funny to see the size of the RYNO next to my Msuper V3 but knowing that the Msuper is much faster which a longer range. Even though it was cool to see the RYNO, it still represents an over-engineered product that will never see mass market adoption as a practical form of personal transport. SIDENOTE: As I was leaving from the airport, I saw a 3 wheel electric scooter about to board the plane. Talked to the guy on it and he was their to just transport it back home after CES. He wasn't using it for any disability. I asked him how he was allowed to bring it on the plane and he said that his brother took care of all of that. This product uses a lead-acid battery though so that may be the difference? And that was basically it as far as Unicycle-like devices at CES 2017. Got to meet Jason McNeil which is always a pleasure to meet someone else as passionate about EUCs as you. But hopefully that passion translates over the general public soon, if at all. There have been several threads on this forum already but we as an EUC community really need to do everything that we can to promote EUCs not just as a fun activity, but as an actual useful and practical personal transportation vehicle not for the future, but RIGHT NOW. That is why I ride not only on sidewalks but also on city streets with cars to show that I am no different than a regular cyclist on the road. It also helps encourage positive views in the minds of police and lawmakers to accept these EUCs on everyday life. I'll leave with two videos, one of EUCs at CES and one of us riding in and around Las Vegas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Unfortunatly i can not see most of the Images :-) But great Report! Thanx! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z3n Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 1 hour ago, KingSong69 said: Unfortunatly i can not see most of the Images :-) But great Report! Thanx! Same here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merrittous MonoWheel Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Awesome videos! Well done. I wish I had known about EUC's when I was last in Vegas. I remember many of the sites you show but I also remember the sore feet and the time it took to walk around:-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Vu Posted January 18, 2017 Author Share Posted January 18, 2017 5 hours ago, z3n said: Same here... Sorry guys! Hopefully it should be fixed now..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Vu Posted January 18, 2017 Author Share Posted January 18, 2017 1 hour ago, Merrittous MonoWheel said: Awesome videos! Well done. I wish I had known about EUC's when I was last in Vegas. I remember many of the sites you show but I also remember the sore feet and the time it took to walk around:-) You were at CES this year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Great report (and I can see the pictures now). The Ryno does look cool though - too bad the spec's are lousy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merrittous MonoWheel Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 27 minutes ago, Michael Vu said: You were at CES this year? No, I wish. I was in Vegas many years ago but still remember the experience. Thanks for helping to bring back the memories (all good BTW) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planetpapi Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Michael, thanks for the report. I hope EUCs becoming more popular and don't follow the fate of Segway. But your report suggests that EUCs will be a niche product...for now. Compared to Segways they are cheap and I don't understand why they are not catching up with public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 9 minutes ago, Planetpapi said: <snip> I don't understand why they are not catching up with public. Because there's a steep learning curve and they are perceived as dangerous (based on the many conversations that I've had with people who see me). There's a big 'cool' factor among people who see us riding, but they also think they are risky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wagtenor Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 15 hours ago, Michael Vu said: And I didn't see one EUC from any other cheap chinese brand. It's a telling sign on the poor general mass market state of EUCs. I'm not sure about this, but perhaps the lack of presence of Chinese firms could be associated with Chinese New Year. Though depending on past times the event was held may not be a viable reason. Another possibility is the pending Presidential inauguration too and grumblings of looming trade war and such. Though I'm not totally sure of that either. I'm very new EUCs and thus far I'm fascinated by them. Wish they were in existence when I was college, I certainly would have had one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clovis Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Thanks for the awesome post. Hopefully I'm wrong, but EUCs are probably niche. I rode my Ninebot One everywhere, 6 months prior to Xmas, with kids and adults asking me about it. I even allowed a few kids to try and ride my Ninebot One. I expected to see at least one more EUC around my neighborhood after Xmas. But it appears that I'm the only EUC rider in my neighborhood. Probably need an A-list celebrity (like Justin Bieber did a few years ago for the hoverboard) to promote EUCs. Can you imagine if someone like Justin Bieber (don't judge) rode an EUC and that video showed up on TMZ. That would be instant popularity for the EUC community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Vu Posted January 18, 2017 Author Share Posted January 18, 2017 2 hours ago, Wagtenor said: I'm not sure about this, but perhaps the lack of presence of Chinese firms could be associated with Chinese New Year. Though depending on past times the event was held may not be a viable reason. Another possibility is the pending Presidential inauguration too and grumblings of looming trade war and such. Though I'm not totally sure of that either. I'm very new EUCs and thus far I'm fascinated by them. Wish they were in existence when I was college, I certainly would have had one. They were still plenty of Chinese firms.... they were all just focusing on non-EUC devices like skateboards, hoverboards, 2 wheel scooters, and unique electric bikes. The fact that both Airwheel and Fastwheel did not show any of their EUC products further shows this market dynamic. And the biggest thing is steep learning curve and perceived notion that these are just toys..... and the general public does not want to spend more than $500 on a toy. The moment that more and more people see practical and legitimate uses of EUCs, the more they were be inclined to spend the money to replace their bicycle and/or moped/car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 It shouldn't come as a big surprise if the US were not the target market where manufacturers expect the big growth to happen first. After all, it's not quite the country of cycling either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wagtenor Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 4 hours ago, Clovis said: Probably need an A-list celebrity (like Justin Bieber did a few years ago for the hoverboard) to promote EUCs. Can you imagine if someone like Justin Bieber (don't judge) rode an EUC and that video showed up on TMZ. That would be instant popularity for the EUC community. Sad but probably very true... Consumerism and it's evangelical core. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wagtenor Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 2 hours ago, Michael Vu said: They were still plenty of Chinese firms.... they were all just focusing on non-EUC devices like skateboards, hoverboards, 2 wheel scooters, and unique electric bikes. The fact that both Airwheel and Fastwheel did not show any of their EUC products further shows this market dynamic. And the biggest thing is steep learning curve and perceived notion that these are just toys..... and the general public does not want to spend more than $500 on a toy. The moment that more and more people see practical and legitimate uses of EUCs, the more they were be inclined to spend the money to replace their bicycle and/or moped/car. Probably some truth here. My observation was based on my experience while shopping for best prices for a Gotway ACM. I ran into the issue where I made an offer on a Gotway ACM v3 84v. The seller was in China. They rejected my offer, but indicated they could and would accept it but only after the long Chinese New year as stock had been cleaned up and shipping companies in China were not moving such products at this time. This made me look at all the Chinese companies that were selling EUCs on EBay and sure enough 100% of them indicated earliest shipment would be around mid February. I guess we'll have to wait and see the turn out of EUCs at comparable Tech Shows like CES that will be held in other countries. I for one hope EUCs take root here USA and in other regions. I find it a fun activity with multi-purpose depending on how people to chose to utilize them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 25 minutes ago, Wagtenor said: Probably some truth here. My observation was based on my experience while shopping for best prices for a Gotway ACM. I ran into the issue where I made an offer on a Gotway ACM v3 84v. The seller was in China. They rejected my offer, but indicated they could and would accept it but only after the long Chinese New year as stock had been cleaned up and shipping companies in China were not moving such products at this time. This made me look at all the Chinese companies that were selling EUCs on EBay and sure enough 100% of them indicated earliest shipment would be around mid February. I guess we'll have to wait and see the turn out of EUCs at comparable Tech Shows like CES that will be held in other countries. I for one hope EUCs take root here USA and in other regions. I find it a fun activity with multi-purpose depending on how people to chose to utilize them. Agreed. At this point you're only going to find an EUC from a seller that actually has them in-hand. There are sellers out there who don't stock them but fulfill the order by going thru a mid-level distributor. They don't have any in stock. I just bought the 84v ACM from Speedyfeet. Even including 2 day international shipping his prices are better than anywhere else (that I know of). I bought my MSuper from him too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxLinux Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 20 hours ago, Michael Vu said: Unfortunately the old head honcho would not allow me to ride it at all even after signing their waiver to ride their products. He was basically an asshole to me about it and basically did not believe/trust me that I could ride an EUC. Even after he saw my gotway and kingsong, he argued back to me "Oh I see you already have wheels yourself, you don't need to try the ninebot" no one at their booth could ride and show off the EUCs. Like Jyro, no one could ride the EUC How sad. These are not the actions and attitudes of companies that want to build the EUC market! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ombre Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 6 hours ago, Clovis said: Hopefully I'm wrong, but EUCs are probably niche. ... Probably need an A-list celebrity (like Justin Bieber did a few years ago for the hoverboard) to promote EUCs. I agree. It'd be nice if there was more adoption but it just doesn't seem realistic. EUCs are hard for most people to learn to ride, there's pain involved, the risk of crashing is significant (likely), they are expensive (when viewed as "toys" which is what most people do), and they have a small envelope of practicality. But hey, we have Lewis Hamilton on his EUC, so we aren't entirely celebrity-less...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 Great info! Poor showing of the companies... Is CES just not the right show for EUCs? It's kind of an old fashioned affair that lost a lot to others (e.g. losing all the video games to E3, Gamescom etc after they refused to show them properly) so it might just not be the right show. Is there a better trade show regarding EUCs? Maybe something in China? At least you don't need to worry about shiny new models coming soon when you buy a EUC now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 21 hours ago, Ombre said: It'd be nice if there was more adoption but it just doesn't seem realistic. EUCs are hard for most people to learn to ride, there's pain involved, the risk of crashing is significant (likely), they are expensive (when viewed as "toys" which is what most people do), and they have a small envelope of practicality. Maybe apart from the pain, pretty much the same has probably been said for bicycles, a 100 years ago. And here we are, 100 million bicycles sold each year in the world. In particular for children I think EUCing is easier to learn than cycling and probably more fun. Crashing is involved in both. And in population dense areas with public transport available, EUCs are at least as practical as bicycles. Only a small fractions of adults will ever succeed in learning EUCing (for various reasons), but all children will learn it if they only get the opportunity. That's why I have sympathy for the relatively small, light, and cheap wheels entering the market, like S2, V5, Zero, which are more likely to be also adopted by children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 I think part of the problem is that many EUCs are marketed and looking like trend sports thingies - you know, skateboarders or bearded hipsters doing tricks while havin a LED lightshow and blasting their music with the built in bluetooth speakers (no offense to people having fun though). At least that was my first impression, that these are for the trend sports crowd. And of course they're just a new thing. Or people confuse them with "useless" kids toys (like hoverboards, but who knows, now I'm not sure whether these aren't useful too). The entire aspect how awesome these things are for short-medium, city commutes and that they are basically a better bycicle (no effort, no sweating, a more natural position, you could maybe even carry an umbrella if it rains) in many applications, is missing. So they're serious business, but you wouldn't know at first. The fact that EUCs are not impulse-buy cheap and not considered serious might be a big hindrance - you need to consider them as serious tools before you spend a lot of money on one. If there was a EUC marketed to businesspeople, with appropriate visual design (the Inmotion V8 with the LEDs off is a step in this direction). Think of a guy in suit and coat on a EUC, holding an umbrella, briefcase attached to a holder on the handle on top of the wheel, just driving to work (instead of using a bike). Maybe that would change people's perceptions. (my current fantasy is a business model with a neat, retractable, collapsible and aerodynamic umbrella built in. A bit like this video. Just a neat feature) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mono Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 For the average busy adult I think learning just takes too much time to invest easily with an uncertain outcome. I think most of us were curious and excited about the challenge, but that's not how it works for most adults. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clovis Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 On 1/18/2017 at 10:50 AM, Marty Backe said: Great report (and I can see the pictures now). The Ryno does look cool though - too bad the spec's are lousy. Just looked at the specs of the Ryno: Max speed 10 mph, Max range 15 miles. Those are really pathetic numbers. I can sit down on my Kingsong KS18 1680 Wh for a range of 60 miles and max speed of 25 mph. Based on that comparison alone, the Ryno will most likely fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomad Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 Imagine the possible agility and improved aim of a trained assault force using high performance EUCs. If some troops started using them it would get an entirely different image than boy bands spinning around on hoverboards on a stage. I think the invention is here to stay but it's not taken to the full potential so far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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