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nomad last won the day on January 10 2017

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  1. @Pingouin Great read! This looks very promising I'm keeping track of this one.. It probably sounds louder because of that angry 2000W motor I think the reason why this wheel is easier to twist around is because most of the weight is around the middle with vertically mounted rows of batteries. So the mass you're swinging around would mostly feel like just turning the motor/tire around. But with the ACM the case is bigger horizontally and the battery weight is distributed more horizontally, plus it's overall heavier, so that should make it harder to rotate horizontally with your legs! If the ACM is harder to turn that also means it's more stable. In other words if the GT16 is more agile that also means it's less stable. You can't have both as these physics tend to counter each other, agility vs stability. What I take from your words is that the riding feels like the agility of a 14" with the comfort of a 16", which would make total sense and should be fun to ride if you ask me I guess they ditched the suspension or shock absorption/dampening idea for the pedals as you didn't mention it, safety and durability reasons come to mind... By the way do you have the 67.2V ACM or the 84V version? The 1300/1600Wh has almost twice the battery output power compared to the 680/820Wh ACM. Is this wheel a partially/fully crowd funded project, I think the IPS Zero was also crowd funded? The pictures I've seen of the GT16 control board looks like they are using proper high quality components! I think Rockwheel is a Korean company while all the other manufacturers are Chinese right?
  2. Oxygen OS is a big plus for the OnePlus I also dislike bloatware! The only issue I have is paying €500 for a psuedo ~400 ppi pentile/diamond screen which will actually be somewhat of a downgrade from my Moto X 2013 with a true ~300 ppi RGB OLED. It's the same panel type that was used in the Galaxy Note 2 it's not bad at all, it doesn't reach ~500 ppi LCD sharpness but it's as good as a ~300 ppi LCD or a ~500 ppi pentile OLED. They also made a tablet that got top marks with RGB OLED I think the Galaxy Tab S 10.5 if I remember it correctly, expensive tablet but performance was not so good on it so I guess the cost was mainly for the screen. With the Lenovo P2 it would feel better as it's 'only' €300 but I also realize this is nitpicking for normal usage and the screen should look excellent for how phones are normally used and I'd take it over an LCD for sure! It's just in my case now paying €500 for a phone in 2017 and get a worse screen than my current phone I payed €400 for back in 2013 don't know how to feel about that.. It's not a huge downgrade by any means maybe insignificant even and I get a size upgrade, but still... The phone is my main screen I use it more than any other screen actually, tablet, laptop, stationary PC or TV, so the phone is what my eyes will be looking at on a daily basis, sometimes more sometimes less but still my main screen for what it's worth.. That's why I'm thinking about the Axon 7 that's on ~500 ppi level like the other flagships which should practically make the subpixel arrangement a non-issue, combined with a step up in sound quality. However the JBL mod will still blow all phone speakers out of the water of course. I think the software is the best on the 3T and probably more future proof when it comes to updates than ZTE but I'm not sure, software support affects the lifespan and these are not cheap phones. I'd advice to use off-screen buttons if possible or "immersive mode" to hide the on-screen buttons and status bar most of the time. It does make the screen last longer but hardware off-screen buttons is definitely better and should behave without issues, also they never waste precious space on the screen. I have burn-in from the bottom navigation buttons and the top status bar. The status bar is a small part of the screen so it's less of an issue but the burned in navigation bar is clearly an issue and can be seen when watching videos. I think one of the reasons the Google Pixel phones are so expensive is because they have factored in replacing a bunch of screens under warranty due to burn-in for the most heavy users crowd, that's the trade-off by going the OLED route, or maybe they use some super expensive extra long life screens if they exist.. OLEDs have longer lifespan these days and degrade less than the early generations but still OLED is not the most durable tech for long life usage, the proof of that is that they are still not used for stationary PCs or laptops, which have too much uptime, I think some gaming laptops have it as optional though. Apple use LCD screens on all their phones and tablets and I think this might be the main reason. On TVs it's less of an issue because they don't show static images such as the same user interface menus/bars every day.. Transparent bars is better if it works that would be a recommended compromise. But just constantly showing full white pages and a pitch black bar at the bottom causes uneven wear. Also use autohide adress bar in the browser so it doesn't show all the time when browsing for example. On portable devices OLED is seen as acceptable and even preferred, the screens are used for relatively less time as they are mostly turned off during the life of the device and the devices are expected to be replaced sooner than stationary electronics, plus perfect image quality is usually not demanded anyway on a portable device so it's maybe not such a serious problem. And burn-in can be prevented if the user is aware and understands the issue. Also you can use light text and dark background browser addon to surf the web with black background instead of white which is great for power consumption, that addon has no effect on backlit LCDs! The Moto X Style dropped down to €208 now so I might go for that, it's the 2015 flagship Moto and it's still good performance, at this price it's definitely a good deal.. If it had an OLED screen I'd go for it probably but unfortunately it's an IPS so I don't know, also the battery life is the usual fare with flagships.. It might be the best IPS display ever put on a phone but still it's an LCD and I don't think I want any of that metallic shimmering, or ghosting, or especially the poor contrast. I come from a long history using CRT monitors and my eyes just never liked any IPS screen. I did have an Nvidia Shield Tablet back in 2014, I sold it after a couple of months because of the IPS screen, by the way that's why I have an unused 128GB SD card since then, bought it together with the tablet but kept the memory card when I sold the tablet. At least on LCD TVs you can have a VA panel with 5000:1 static contrast that's actually OK and not terrible for watching video. But as far as I know, no phones, tablets or laptops have VA LCD and I think it's because they're not good for such close up viewing distance. I had a cPVA Eizo monitor once and the gamma shift was very noticable at normal viewing distance less than 1 meter. It looked really nice from 2 meters away though... Anyway here's a review of the Moto Z but it has the Moto X Pure in the charts (Moto X Pure Edition is the US name for Moto X Style) and as can be seen the screen actually turned out the most accurate test results of all the tested phones, can't argue about the accuracy and of course no burn-in either on LCD! I'm still tempted by this phone! http://www.anandtech.com/show/10493/motorola-moto-z-force-droid-review/4 OK wow this decision is taking more time than I planned... It's just hard to justify some of these prices as they are a little ridiculous, everything is basically twice as expensive compared to just 3 years ago. Anyway I might be overthinking this issue but in my mind €500 is very expensive for a phone no matter how I look at it and I'm not exactly on the phone for hours on end every day.. Especially when I look at the price of the Moto X Style, even with LCD and non-spectacular battery life it's a very good deal and they even fit a 5.7" screen in the same size as other 5.5" phones and still managed front facing stereo speakers and no camera hump, it's a little thicker but still pretty good engineering and specs are still good! And then there's the Lenovo P2 again with that battery life and 4GB RAM with OLED and offscreen button, yes only one button but definitely better than nothing. It can be set up to use the fingerprint button so you press it down to go home, touch it to go back, and hold it to open the recent apps list.. something like that. So it works like all three offscreen buttons in one, and it's supposed to work fine so that's pretty nice, and the price is right. I just have to decide this for myself how big the issue is with the pentile / diamond for me, I am getting older so maybe I won't see the difference anyway lol. Maybe I can even get used to an IPS screen.. it's funny how these huge price differences can make one satisfied with less than top of the line tech or am I kidding myself! How much performance I need, how much battery, if I should just splurge for the JBL mod!! The Z Play dropped a little too now to €365 and it keeps getting rave ratings from owners so far. Lenovo P2 seems to have a couple of software hiccups though.. But Moto still has clean and polished firmware, even as a Lenovo company. If anyone is still reading thanks for the comments so far! I do appreciate thoughts from owners that actually use the phones normally not just for testing. If you have any phone on the list please tell how it's working out for you or just comment anything. The big reviewers usually switch phones all the time so they don't always capture that real world long term user experience. All right.. I'll just sleep on this for now and hopefully I can decide something tomorrow. I actually have some other more important stuff that needs my attention so can't be stuck with phone purchase for too long! I really do that's why I'm not so active in the forum lately
  3. Haha 10000mAh battery that was not in the list..!! But on the subject the Moto Z Play has excellent battery life with 8+ hours screen-on-time in mixed use and the Lenovo P2 even more 12h+ SoT. For pure video playback they last even longer due to hardware decoding and oled screens being very efficient for displaying video content. For normal/light phone users the Z Play can last two full days and the P2 can last three days! The OnePlus 3T seems like an excellent phone, the software looks good and it has proper offscreen buttons which I like. It seems to have no real weaknesses but that also makes it no cheaper than other flagships. Moto Z is 464€ (without JBL mod), Axon 7 is 471€ and has the best built-in speakers for video watching. Even the 64GB model of the 3T is 451€ but it has no SD card slot so you have to go with the 128GB model anyway for 503€. So these are all hovering around 500€ +/-50 together with the Galaxy S7. So the 3T saves no money really as they all cost about the same and you even get a significantly better screen and camera on the S7 for example. I actually have an old 128GB memory card that hasn't been used for a couple of years in some drawer, so I can pop that into any phone that has a slot. Right now I leaning toward the P2, Z Play + JBL mod, or the 3T. All three have the same 5.5" pentile/diamond subpixel 1080p oled screen. But SoT on 3T is nothing special 4-6 hours.. With that phone I'd probably put it on charging first thing when getting home if I want to use it later in the evening.. With the fast charging that might work out well though! However screen on time with the Z Play is like 8-10h and the P2 like 12-15h so those two phones are basically impossible to kill in day already. I think for me the battery might be a little overkill in the P2 even, but it's still a slim device and the price is great value. That JBL mod seems to make the phone into a one piece portable handheld oled tv with actually decent sound! Not the best for music maybe but good enough for video watching I think. Should be a really nice option for casual video watching in sofa/bed, most likely way better than any other phone or tablet built-in speakers. sound testing @ 1:20 sound testing @ 4:35
  4. Seems Kingsong is playing it safe and maybe they did the testing and have good reason for this!? I also notice the V5F+ starts feeling softer somewhere around 40% charge. When the pedals gets softer the natural response is to ride more carefully because the wheel responds slower.. But as the max cruising speed is practically only 22 km/h from the go, I guess it's safe enough to just continue with that speed to the end. I'm about 70kg but now with temperatures around 0°C I'm only getting around 20-25 km range. Also higher speeds consume way more power, that's why the V5F+ has good range, no 25-30 km/h cruising going on here...
  5. That unused space could be used for a redundant control board or a massive heatsink...
  6. nomad


    (not my video but I hope it's ok to post it)
  7. I'm about 70kg and my V5F+ is 7 months old so the batteries should be in pretty good shape still, but I've used the wheel a lot! I think it should be 90-95% of new capacity, even with my heavy usage, it's hard to notice any dropped capacity so far, maybe after a full year it's noticeable. I now have over 4000km mileage already, that's more than 100 full charge cycles. I try not to keep the batteries fully charged all the time. But I need the full range so can not limit charge with a hobby16 Charge Doctor v2.. It's not the best for battery lifespan with 100% voltage... If possible it's better to keep batteries between 20-80% charge when being used. When not being used around 40% ideally. I won't know for sure before it gets warmer here again, but the range I count on have been like this for me: -15C=15km, -5C=20km, +5C=25km, +15C=30km, +25C=35km
  8. nomad


    Just a normal tire but not stock, a very good Chao Yang H-5146
  9. Let's say a test was done with a person having 0.5 seconds [reaction time] to pedal force feedback. Steady acceleration from standstill right up to preferred speed (unknown by rider but measured exactly 27 km/h in every test). No tiltback felt during acceleration, because of constant pressure and steadily reduced torque over the speed range of the motor. At exactly 27 km/h (still unknown by the rider) the following happens: Case 1. No tiltback: At 27 km/h.. preferred speed is reached. Immediately [ease off pressure] from front of pedals, wheel continues to cruise along at 28 km/h... Case 2. No tiltback: At 27 km/h.. immediately [apply harder pressure] to front of pedals to accelerate up to 30 km/h. One second later the wheel has folded. Case 3. Tiltback normal curve activated at 21 km/h, agressive curve at 23 km/h, extreme at 25 km/h, final extra forceful curve activated at 27 km/h: At 27 km/h.. unpredictably but only momentarily feel [pressure] coming up from the pedals (as if you would [apply harder pressure] to front of pedals). One second later the wheel has folded. If a test turned out something like this I don't think I'd question the results, I guess it would just seem plausible to me.
  10. Ride responsibly and Wear suitable protective gear! = Safe Speed = 70kg rider >40% charge. Heavier rider or lower battery? Ride slower! 21 km/h - Ninebot One S2 (310Wh) 21 km/h - Ninebot One E+ (320Wh) 22 km/h - Gotway MCM4 (340Wh) 22 km/h - Kingsong KS14C (340Wh) 22 km/h - Kingsong KS14D (420Wh) 22 km/h - IPS 141 Zero (340Wh) 22 km/h - IPS 191 Lhotz (340Wh) 23 km/h - Inmotion V5F, V5F+ (320Wh, 480Wh) 25 km/h - Inmotion V8 (480Wh) 28 km/h - Gotway MCM4 (680Wh) 28 km/h - Kingsong KS14C (680Wh) 28 km/h - Kingsong KS16B (680/840Wh) 32 km/h - Kingsong KS16S (820Wh) 32 km/h - Kingsong KS18A-1200W (840Wh) 32 km/h - Gotway ACM (680/820Wh) 32 km/h - Gotway Msuper v3 (680/820Wh) 32 km/h - Rockwheel GT16 (680Wh) 35 km/h - Kingsong KS18A-1200W (1680Wh) 35 km/h - Rockwheel GT16 (858Wh) 40 km/h - Gotway ACM (1300/1600Wh) 40 km/h - Gotway Msuper v3s, v3s+ (1300Wh, 1600Wh) 40 km/h - Gotway Monster (2400Wh) 45 km/h - Kingsong KS18A-2000W (1680Wh) = Real Range = 20-25 km/h urban commuting, 70kg rider, not aggressive riding, not offroad, above 15°C ambient temperature, not hilly, not windy, new good condition batteries (5km rounded). 20 km - Ninebot One S2 (310Wh) 20 km - Ninebot One E+ (320Wh) 20 km - Gotway MCM4 (340Wh) 20 km - Kingsong KS14C (340Wh) 20 km - IPS 141 Zero (340Wh) 20 km - IPS 191 Lhotz (340Wh) 20 km - Inmotion V5F (320Wh) 25 km - Kingsong KS14D (420Wh) 30 km - Inmotion V5F+ (480Wh) 30 km - Inmotion V8 (480Wh) 40 km - Gotway MCM4 (680Wh) 40 km - Kingsong KS14C (680Wh) 40 km - Kingsong KS16B (680Wh) 40 km - Gotway ACM (680Wh) 40 km - Rockwheel GT16 (680Wh) 40 km - Gotway Msuper v3 (680Wh) 50 km - Kingsong KS16B (840Wh) 50 km - Kingsong KS16S (820Wh) 50 km - Gotway ACM (820Wh) 50 km - Kingsong KS18A-1200W (840Wh) 50 km - Gotway Msuper v3 (820Wh) 55 km - Rockwheel GT16 (858Wh) 80 km - Gotway ACM (1300Wh) 80 km - Gotway Msuper v3s (1300Wh) 100 km - Gotway ACM (1600Wh) 100 km - Gotway Msuper v3s+ (1600Wh) 105 km - Kingsong KS18A-1200W, KS18A-2000W (1680Wh) 150 km - Gotway Monster (2400Wh) * Real Range calculation: Capacity Wh / 16 = km Inmotion V8 example: 480Wh / 16 = 30km * Peak power calculation: Fully charged, new good condition batteries (100W rounded). battery pack voltage (serial) * number of packs (parallell) * nominal discharge rate * 95% switching efficiency Rockwheel GT16 (858Wh) example: 84V * 4packs * 10A * 0.95 = 3192W The standard battery cells used in EUCs have 10 Ampere nominal discharge rate. Dynanometer tests have shown the batteries have not delivered any more in practice so 10A was used for all calculations. 15-cell pack = 63V * 10A = 630W 16-cell pack = 67.2V * 10A = 672W 20-cell pack = 84V * 10A = 840W 95% efficiency (5% waste heat) * Safe Speed calculation: Ninebot One S2 (310Wh): 500W nominal, 1200W peak √ 500W = 22 km/h 22 km/h ^ 2 * 2.5 = 1210W Unsafe! 21 km/h ^ 2 * 2.5 = 1103W OK. Ninebot One E+ (320Wh): 500W nominal, 1200W peak √ 500W = 22 km/h 22 km/h ^ 2 * 2.5 = 1210W Unsafe! 21 km/h ^ 2 * 2.5 = 1103W OK. Gotway MCM4 (340Wh): 800W nominal, 1300W peak √ 800W = 28 km/h 28 km/h ^ 2 * 2.5 = 1960W Unsafe! 22 km/h ^ 2 * 2.5 = 1210W OK. Kingsong KS14C (340Wh): 800W nominal, 1300W peak √ 800W = 28 km/h 28 km/h ^ 2 * 2.5 = 1960W Unsafe! 22 km/h ^ 2 * 2.5 = 1210W OK. Kingsong KS14D (420Wh): 800W nominal, 1300W peak √ 800W = 28 km/h 28 km/h ^ 2 * 2.5 = 1960W Unsafe! 22 km/h ^ 2 * 2.5 = 1210W OK. IPS 141 Zero (340Wh): 1000W nominal, 1300W peak √ 1000W = 32 km/h 32 km/h ^ 2 * 2.5 = 2560W Unsafe! 22 km/h ^ 2 * 2.5 = 1210W OK. IPS 191 Lhotz (340Wh): 1000W nominal, 1300W peak √ 1000W = 32 km/h 32 km/h ^ 2 * 2.5 = 2560W Unsafe! 22 km/h ^ 2 * 2.5 = 1210W OK. Inmotion V5F, V5F+ (320Wh, 480Wh) : 550W nominal, 1600W peak √ 550W = 23 km/h 23 km/h ^ 2 * 2.5 = 1323W OK. Inmotion V8 (480Wh): 800W nominal, 1600W peak √ 800W = 28 km/h 28 km/h ^ 2 * 2.5 = 1960W Unsafe! 25 km/h ^ 2 * 2.5 = 1563W OK. Gotway MCM4 (680Wh): 800W nominal, 2600W peak √ 800W = 28 km/h 28 km/h ^ 2 * 2.5 = 1960W OK. Kingsong KS14C (680Wh): 800W nominal, 2600W peak √ 800W = 28 km/h 28 km/h ^ 2 * 2.5 = 1960W OK. Kingsong KS16B (840Wh): 800W nominal, 2600W peak √ 800W = 28 km/h 28 km/h ^ 2 * 2.5 = 1960W OK. Kingsong KS16S (820Wh): 1200W nominal, 2600W peak √ 1200W = 35 km/h 35 km/h ^ 2 * 2.5 = 3063W Unsafe! 32 km/h ^ 2 * 2.5 = 2560W OK. Kingsong KS18A-1200W (840Wh): 1200W nominal, 2600W peak √ 1200W = 35 km/h 35 km/h ^ 2 * 2.5 = 3063W Unsafe! 32 km/h ^ 2 * 2.5 = 2560W OK. Gotway ACM (680/820Wh): 1500W nominal, 2600W peak √ 1500W = 39 km/h 39 km/h ^ 2 * 2.5 = 3803W Unsafe! 32 km/h ^ 2 * 2.5 = 2560W OK. Gotway Msuper v3 (680/820Wh): 1500W nominal, 2600W peak √ 1500W = 39 km/h 39 km/h ^ 2 * 2.5 = 3803W Unsafe! 32 km/h ^ 2 * 2.5 = 2560W OK. Rockwheel GT16 (680Wh): 2000W nominal, 2600W peak √ 2000W = 45 km/h 45 km/h ^ 2 * 2.5 = 5063W Unsafe! 32 km/h ^ 2 * 2.5 = 2560W OK. Kingsong KS18A-1200W (1680Wh): 1200W nominal, 5100W peak √ 1200W = 35 km/h 35 km/h ^ 2 * 2.5 = 3063W OK. Rockwheel GT16 (858Wh): 2000W nominal, 3200W peak √ 2000W = 45 km/h 45 km/h ^ 2 * 2.5 = 5063W Unsafe! 35 km/h ^ 2 * 2.5 = 3063W OK. Gotway ACM (1300/1600Wh): 1600W nominal, 4800W peak √ 1600W = 40 km/h 40 km/h ^ 2 * 2.5 = 4000W OK. Gotway Msuper v3s, v3s+ (1300Wh, 1600Wh): 1600W nominal, 4800W peak √ 1600W = 40 km/h 40 km/h ^ 2 * 2.5 = 4000W OK. Gotway Monster (2400Wh): 1600W nominal, 8000W peak √ 1600W = 40 km/h 40 km/h ^ 2 * 2.5 = 4000W OK. Kingsong KS18A-2000W (1680Wh): 2000W nominal, 5100W peak √ 2000W = 45 km/h 45 km/h ^ 2 * 2.5 = 5063W OK.
  11. Got the flashlight batteries at last, I'm no expert but this flashlight is not bad, not bad at all... It must be 3000 real lumens in the high mode it's like a car headlamp no joke! I took a couple on phone photos.. I know.. but at least I tried to adjust the exposure so the lit path looked like about the same brightness as the phone screen by eye.. Yes I know... But it's just to give an idea of what kind of difference we're talking about. Built-in headlight: Don't want to be mean but the picture is not far from reality. It's the best picture I could get with the phone. Like has been mentioned, it's practically only good for being seen by others in the dark, not really for lighting up your way. I must say from a first test ride I'm more than fully satisfied with the new flashlight, to say the least! I probably won't be using the highest mode often though, that's just not safe to use along any traffic, not to mention the bike lane lol.. Even the medium brightness is definitely way too strong mounted on the wheel if you plan on using bike lanes. It doesn't feel so heavy even with the batteries it's fine really, I guess in the worst case I simply switch hands after a while, but it was no problem for me at least. I thought the 5000K color temperature would be warmer white but it's very neutral white, there's really no yellowish or reddish tint, no bluish or purple, it looks quite pure white to me like it's on a grey scale, very good. I'm happy I didn't get the cool white tint, that must be bluish if this is called warm.. That standard 2-pin '8 shaped' cable has a US plug as usual so I'll have to pick up a euro cable for the charger, no problem. Anyway finally, it feels very nice to have this kind of light for those darker rides! Convoy L6 (5000K):
  12. I'm no EUC engineer but I think what happens, and what is probably the safest method, is that it just changes the neutral angle of the gyro, so there's not any preset tilting movement. It should react proportionally to how hard you attack it. Unless you react at the speed of light or can predict the exact future movement, the tiltback will try to push the pedals up. As the back of the pedals don't go down so much and actually moves more horizontally, there's definitely a significant lifting movement at the front. It starts accelerating as the neutral tilt angle is suddenly switched to a different angle. It will keep accelerating until the new set angle is reached. But as you are standing on the pedals there is resistance. Because you resist the backward roll of the stator/shell/pedals, it results in increased speed to the ground. This goes on until either the new angle is reached or a higher rotation speed is reached. If pedals are pushed back fast that actually helps the motor accelerate a bit. If speed increases the angle can be offset even steeper up the tiltback curve, you'll be chasing a moving target at this point. When rotating the shell the pedals do not only rotate, but they also move forward, it swings your feet forward and shifts the center of gravity. You always reach tiltback activation speed because you accelerate into it. This means you never go into tiltback with a neutral stance on the pedals, you must have a forward pressure, unless you're going downhill and gravity does it for you...
  13. You're right there is a difference between where the weight is placed on the pedals of course. But keep in mind the front of the pedals also have a significantly more vertical trajectory, the back of the pedals move more horizontally than down during tiltback! More vertical movement needs more power. I took the pedal hinges as an example, as they show that the pedals are not only rotated by themselves but also elevated at an angle as a whole unit. Yes my point was that 'lifting' is involved when tiltback is increasing the angle. Because you are not controlling tiltback, tilback controls you! That means it's impossible to fully predict the movement. In essence the extra resistance for the motor will be mainly to push up the front of the pedals. In order to get tiltback, there must be acceleration before leading to triggering it. So you are already applying pressure in front before it activates.. Your weight will be even more shifted toward the front of the pedals when it kicks up the angle. That's why your neutral angle probably doesn't matter so much when it starts rotating up under your feet. Basically tiltback will do an action and the automatic reaction from you is applying more pressure in front asking for even more acceleration than before. If successful the wheel speeds up while you lean back, so you can be slowed down safely without overleaning. I can't see this work without using extra power.
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