Popular Post Punxatawneyjoe Posted February 19, 2023 Author Popular Post Share Posted February 19, 2023 (edited) The v13 factory axle bolts Edited February 19, 2023 by Punxatawneyjoe 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEC Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 (edited) On 1/25/2023 at 1:33 AM, Hsiang said: Here's a small Easter egg, hold down the lift cutoff button while hitting power botton to turn the ring light on and off. This is well known (and documented in instructions) Inmotion feature on wheels with side LED rings (like V8) it's used to turn those on and off. For some reason though it's not implemented on V12, which kinda annoys me. I'm glad it's back on V13 again. Edited February 19, 2023 by HEC 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEC Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 (edited) 11 hours ago, Punxatawneyjoe said: The v13 factory axle bolts Thank you, much appreciated! Did you manage to measure the taper angle? Even from your images it seems to be less than 90° ... One important observation about the bolt dimensions, the first info shared about bolts ordered by eWheels specified M6x20, but there is a minor "issue" with that, as 20 mm in this case is referring to the length of the threaded part, not the whole bolt. As different sources are "randomly" referring to bolts lengths either by length of the threaded part only or a full length including head, you might need to order either M6x20 or M6x25. So pay the attention to detailed descriptions and (hopefully) included technical drawings specifying where or how exactly are the advertised dimensions measured (see example image below). This unfortunately means that the bolts originally sourced by eWheels have not only incorrect type and size of head but also incorrect (shorter) length of thread 15 instead of 20 mm (and indeed the whole bolt 19.5 instead of 25 mm) as seen in below reply in this thread. Edited February 19, 2023 by HEC 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 Looks a whole lot like dead on 90 degrees to me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEC Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 39 minutes ago, mrelwood said: Looks a whole lot like dead on 90 degrees to me. To me it looks less than 90° (it's tricky to measure actual angle of the images). See below 90°, 60° and original ones: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punxatawneyjoe Posted February 19, 2023 Author Share Posted February 19, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, HEC said: To me it looks less than 90° (it's tricky to measure actual angle of the images). See below 90°, 60° and original ones: I'm not sure now what do we think? does that look like 45 or 30? Edited February 19, 2023 by Punxatawneyjoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 15 minutes ago, HEC said: To me it looks less than 90° (it's tricky to measure actual angle of the images). Look how the sides of the angled part align with the edges of the photo when the image is turned 45 degrees: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEC Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 (edited) 56 minutes ago, Punxatawneyjoe said: I'm not sure now what do we think? does that look like 45 or 30? It's a bit hard to see from your image. What about this (apologies for my crude drawing): Measure A, B, C and calculate the Alpha angle (C need to be at the "edge", not to the top of the rounded head). Edited February 19, 2023 by HEC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tawpie Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 does it matter that the receiving hole isn't really very countersunk looking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEC Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 3 minutes ago, mrelwood said: Look how the sides of the angled part align with the edges of the photo when the image is turned 45 degrees: Yes, and now try to repeat the same "exercise" with two images if 90° and 60° tapers I've posted above for comparison... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEC Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 2 minutes ago, Tawpie said: does it matter that the receiving hole isn't really very countersunk looking? Do you mean the holes in the motor itself? There are aluminium slider rails mounted on top of those and from so far available images it's almost impossible to see the taper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tawpie Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 (edited) 1 minute ago, HEC said: Do you mean the holes in the motor itself? There are aluminium slider rails mounted on top of those and from so far available images it's almost impossible to see the taper. I was referring to the picture of the broken ones, but didn't know there was more to it (I should have though, the broken bolt head is too long to have been in the motor all by itself!) Edited February 19, 2023 by Tawpie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 6 minutes ago, HEC said: Yes, and now try to repeat the same "exercise" with two images if 90° and 60° tapers I've posted above for comparison... There weren’t any images taken straight from the side that would show the edge on both sides. But here’s a 60 degree bolt from the side. I leveled the bottom side: If the photo perspective is not straight from the side of the bolt, assessing the angle of the countersink is impossible. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEC Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 2 minutes ago, mrelwood said: If the photo perspective is not straight from the side of the bolt, assessing the angle of the countersink is impossible. Yeah, that was exactly my point. The images are deceiving and it's tricky to see exact angles of 3d objects with "random" perspective. Common sense would lead me to believe that Inmotion is using mainly "of shelf" bolts, and with 90° and 60° being the standardized sizes, it makes sense that one of those is likely being used. And I do agree that it looks much closer to 90° than 60°, but on other hand I still somehow have a feeling that it's less than 90° ... So unless Inmotion went for some custom (let's say 75°) tapers, I'm baffled, thus my "quest" for finding the right dimensions. I have already been "burned" by ordering (and now cancelling) incorrect lengths (20 instead of 25 mm, or 15 instead of 20 if you measure thread length only), so before I place another order, I want to be fairly sure about taper angle too. And thanks a gazillion to @Punxatawneyjoefor his sacrifice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post conecones Posted February 20, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted February 20, 2023 The stock motor bolts are NOT 90 degree. I have confirmed this by comparing with new bolts (90 deg, M6x20). I did a test fit and I am not convinced the recess in the slider bracket is actually 90 degrees. The wear mark on the new bolt is around the rim of the head (see last photo), which leads me to believe the bracket recess is actually cut to match the stock bolts of ~75 degrees (my guess). For this reason, I just checked the tightness of all stock bolts (they are extremely tight) and did not use the new 90 degree bolts. At this point, IM owes us an official answer. The spec sheet provided by Ewheels (which we assume was provided by IM, as it is in Chinese) may be incorrect and lead to more failures if the recess in the bracket does not mate properly with the bolt taper. 1 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supercurio Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 18 minutes ago, conecones said: The stock motor bolts are NOT 90 degree. I have confirmed this by comparing with new bolts (90 deg, M6x20). I did a test fit and I am not convinced the recess in the slider bracket is actually 90 degrees. The wear mark on the new bolt is around the rim of the head (see last photo), which leads me to believe the bracket recess is actually cut to match the stock bolts of ~75 degrees (my guess). For this reason, I just checked the tightness of all stock bolts (they are extremely tight) and did not use the new 90 degree bolts. At this point, IM owes us an official answer. The spec sheet provided by Ewheels (which we assume was provided by IM, as it is in Chinese) may be incorrect and lead to more failures if the recess in the bracket does not mate properly with the bolt taper. I talked to a dealer yesterday who made the same observations and conclusions as you @conecones, it's consistent. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEC Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 (edited) 52 minutes ago, conecones said: The stock motor bolts are NOT 90 degree. I have confirmed this by comparing with new bolts (90 deg, M6x20). I did a test fit and I am not convinced the recess in the slider bracket is actually 90 degrees. The wear mark on the new bolt is around the rim of the head (see last photo), which leads me to believe the bracket recess is actually cut to match the stock bolts of ~75 degrees (my guess). For this reason, I just checked the tightness of all stock bolts (they are extremely tight) and did not use the new 90 degree bolts. At this point, IM owes us an official answer. The spec sheet provided by Ewheels (which we assume was provided by IM, as it is in Chinese) may be incorrect and lead to more failures if the recess in the bracket does not mate properly with the bolt taper. Thank you, thank you, thank you! Finally my suspicions are confirmed. If they're using uncommon taper (like 75°, which I was also speculating about) instead of standard insert bolts 60°, we're literally screwed here (no pun intended), as we'll be simply unable to source those ourselves from regular suppliers. You'd probably need to special order those directly from some manufacturers (or make your own if you have access to metal workshop with CNCs). Would you happen to have a calipers to be able to measure head dimensions as per my previous reply, so we can try to calculate the taper angle? Also, any chance you can get your hands on 60° taper bolt for comparison (those are fairly common, mainly as torx insert bolts for CNC heads)? Edited February 20, 2023 by HEC 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 If we assume that the new bolts are exactly 90°, and that the photo is taken exactly from the side, and that the bolts are held perfectly in line... ... the originals are indeed starting to look like they might be 75° degree bolts. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradox Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 10 hours ago, supercurio said: I talked to a dealer yesterday who made the same observations and conclusions as you @conecones, it's consistent. Is it possible that the original bolts were the wrong spec and the replacement bolts are the correct angle for the hole? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEC Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 10 minutes ago, Paradox said: Is it possible that the original bolts were the wrong spec and the replacement bolts are the correct angle for the hole? Highly unlikely. I think something got lost in translation (both literally as well as figuratively) here during initial communication with Inmotion regarding the replacement bolts, as those clearly don't fit (wrong length, wrong head type, wrong taper angle). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquallLHeart Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 it's been awhile since I spoke to Bob about this issue.. but I do believe part of the conversation we had with the bolts wasn't just about the bolt strength, but the specs of the bolts which likely was referring to the taper angle being incorrect. as in the bolts that were installed in that particular production batch were not correct.. so I'm not sure why people are questioning why there's a difference in the taper angle in the replacement bolts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEC Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 1 hour ago, SquallLHeart said: it's been awhile since I spoke to Bob about this issue.. but I do believe part of the conversation we had with the bolts wasn't just about the bolt strength, but the specs of the bolts which likely was referring to the taper angle being incorrect. as in the bolts that were installed in that particular production batch were not correct.. so I'm not sure why people are questioning why there's a difference in the taper angle in the replacement bolts? Perhaps because: 14 hours ago, conecones said: The stock motor bolts are NOT 90 degree. I have confirmed this by comparing with new bolts (90 deg, M6x20). I did a test fit and I am not convinced the recess in the slider bracket is actually 90 degrees. The wear mark on the new bolt is around the rim of the head (see last photo), which leads me to believe the bracket recess is actually cut to match the stock bolts of ~75 degrees (my guess). For this reason, I just checked the tightness of all stock bolts (they are extremely tight) and did not use the new 90 degree bolts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquallLHeart Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 ah.. hmm.. 🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEC Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 16 hours ago, SquallLHeart said: ah.. hmm.. 🤔 Perhaps this is what you / Bob were referring to?: Quote Analysis 3 : The angle of the bolt taper head produced by the supplier does not meet the requirements.When the bolt is tightened, the bolt taper head is in line contact with the taper hole of the inner slide rail,which is likely to cause the deformation of the aluminum alloy inner slide rail, resulting in a gap, and easily causing the bolt to break due to impact. From: https://www.neltrekevolution.com/products/INMOTION-V13-Motor-bolt-recall-c145293561 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Paradox Posted February 21, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted February 21, 2023 (edited) Edited February 21, 2023 by Paradox 2 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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