Smaller wheels - will they ever make a comeback?

[techyiam]

The title of this thread poses the question as to whether smaller wheels will ever make a comeback. 

Well, "ever" is a very long time.

But if we are to look at current trends, then, the outlook looks bleak. 

If we look at sales performance, the trend doesn't look too great.

There may be a demand for smaller wheels, but it seems the demand for larger wheels is a lot greater.

At the sites that I have browsed, the top selling wheels are easily over 60 lbs. The V11 is among the lightest of the best sellers, and it weighs almost 60 lbs.

If we look at recently released wheels, other then Mten4 and T4, the rest don't belong not in the "smaller wheels" category: EX.N, V12, Abrams, Hero, EX20S, V12 HT, Commander, Sherman Max,  Master, S22, V13, Master Pro, Master X, Sherman-S, Commander Pro, EX30.

Additionally, at EEVEES, the Sherman-S preorders has now out sold the 18XL. And the 18XL is currently on sale. The 18XL weighs 53 lbs.

In fact, EEVEES only carrys two wheels in the "smaller wheels" category: Mten4 and the V8F.

[KiwiMark]

I suspect a lot of people could do most of their rides on a shorter range wheel, but if it isn't ALL of their rides then it makes sense to get a wheel with more range.  A longer range wheel can handle shorter rides, but a short range wheel can't handle longer rides.  You might be fine on the daily commute with a lighter wheel that has very limited range, but if you wanted to use your wheel on the weekend on a longer ride then maybe it just couldn't do it.

So why a trend from lots of short range light wheels to very few of them?  Maybe more and more of the people that want to ride EUCs are realising that the wheels are viable transport rather than just a fun toy to play on and they look at the models with good torque, speed & range and say to themselves "yes, that would be a great thing for any travelling about that I might like to do".  In comparison to the wheels that you can buy with good range/speed/torque, the lightweight wheels start to look less appealing.  Why buy a wheel with limited use if there are wheels available that can handle so much more?

It is easy to say "but I only need this much", that's fine for your use case.  The manufacturers are going by numbers, if only 5% of sales are light wheels and 95% of sales are for the more capable wheels with more range - well, what do you think the manufacturers are going to concentrate their new designs on?  Electric wheels are capable of replacing bicycles and motor scooters and to some degree cars too.  They have evolved and there are riders that will buy a wheel which may well handle all of their daily travel needs so they don't need to use a car at all.  The manufacturers see the shifts in demand when they look at their sales figures and obviously they need to keep moving to where the sales are to be had.  What is selling well is suspension, range speed, torque - all the manufacturers are looking to grabbing what share they can of the available sales.

[Grinch]

well in my opinion there are enough "small wheels" with more than enough characteristics, from the small 14" Kingsong 14S and Gotway MCM5 which however have respectable autonomy and mileage (compared to the other 14" both of Inmotion and of Kingsong recently more than 20km range) which for daily commuter and even recreational use are more than sufficient in my opinion.
Then again with reference to the "small" 14" and 16" both Inmotion and Kingsong and Gotway which are now hyper-tested by now, in my opinion they already cover a good chunk of any user request approaching this world.
So I think it's right that manufacturers focus on more performing wheels for the real demand of us "veteran" daily users

[Funky]

2 hours ago, KiwiMark said:

It is easy to say "but I only need this much", that's fine for your use case.  The manufacturers are going by numbers, if only 5% of sales are light wheels and 95% of sales are for the more capable wheels with more range - well, what do you think the manufacturers are going to concentrate their new designs on?  Electric wheels are capable of replacing bicycles and motor scooters and to some degree cars too.  They have evolved and there are riders that will buy a wheel which may well handle all of their daily travel needs so they don't need to use a car at all.  The manufacturers see the shifts in demand when they look at their sales figures and obviously they need to keep moving to where the sales are to be had.  What is selling well is suspension, range speed, torque - all the manufacturers are looking to grabbing what share they can of the available sales.

What numbers?? If only heavy wheels are built.  Every new wheel built is heavy.. If shops only sell heavy/new wheels. I wonder which ones will sell..  Every new wheel sells and all new wheels get pre-orders, before they are even released.. So ofc if they make only heavy wheels, they will sell. (You don't get it?)

If we ignore older models - there are no light wheels. (Some people look only at newest.. They won't even blink at older wheels.)

 

When i was buying my wheel, shop had shermans, etc.. In store. Sure they look sweet and sexy. But i heck didn't need what it offered. I needed small/light device that could compare to regular bicycle. And i bought somewhat equal level. Lightest 18" wheel that was available, because i wanted 18".

And range of 50km is a lot! If you think that's nothing. Go walk the same distance with feet - we all are used to ride, that we don't even think about range what's lot and little.

With 50km i can ride my whole city 2x times and all back roads and so on.. Heck if you needed to ride the same distance with regular bike, even then you would not say that's nothing.

With car i don't think we have ever ridden more than 500km in one go. (So called family trip..)

Edited December 1, 2022 by Funky

[LowFlyingSquirrel]

6 minutes ago, Funky said:

And range of 50km is a lot! If you think that's nothing. Go walk the same distance with feet - we all are used to ride, that we don't even think about range what's lot and little.

Thats a different argument. But it doesn't change my mind 50 km range is not a lot. If you look at komoot you'll see people casually riding bikes for 6 hours, 200 km and more. Motorbike riders probably a lot more, so range for Euc should fit between there. Unfortunately we are still limited by battery specs.

[Funky]

1 hour ago, Grinch said:

well in my opinion there are enough "small wheels" with more than enough characteristics, from the small 14" Kingsong 14S and Gotway MCM5 which however have respectable autonomy and mileage (compared to the other 14" both of Inmotion and of Kingsong recently more than 20km range) which for daily commuter and even recreational use are more than sufficient in my opinion.
Then again with reference to the "small" 14" and 16" both Inmotion and Kingsong and Gotway which are now hyper-tested by now, in my opinion they already cover a good chunk of any user request approaching this world.
So I think it's right that manufacturers focus on more performing wheels for the real demand of us "veteran" daily users

Same time ignoring newcomer market.. Pleasing only veteran riders. 

They could be getting more and more new riders with cheaper, smaller wheels.  (Every person looks so happy asking question - till the part i say the price.) 

Good luck getting new riders with 3000$+ price tag. (Because most new customers will see the big wheels first.)

Yes again older models.. We want something "new" worth spending our money on. If i already got 1 wheel that does everything i need. - Why would i buy another one, if it doesn't give any benefits over my older wheel.

[LowFlyingSquirrel]

12 minutes ago, Funky said:

With car i don't think we have ever ridden more than 500km in one go. (So called family trip..)

Unfortunately you must be limited by inadequate motorways or nothing interesting to see. If you could drive at 150 km/h. You would go a lot further.

[Funky]

22 minutes ago, LowFlyingSquirrel said:

Thats a different argument. But it doesn't change my mind 50 km range is not a lot. If you look at komoot you'll see people casually riding bikes for 6 hours, 200 km and more. Motorbike riders probably a lot more, so range for Euc should fit between there. Unfortunately we are still limited by battery specs.

And are you one of them, who like to ride whole day? Sorry, but then you don't have an option to say here at all.  Because small/light wheels won't ever be made for "your" needs.

If one rides more than 100km daily. Sure i see the need of heavy/big wheels. But most "normal" people would use car/motorcycle. Then again i'm not a hobbyist. I see euc's same as any transportation device. Sure i also would like to have endless range without batteries.. No need to charge. No need to watch over battery/range. - But we don't have that option.

 

There are two kinds of people. Who don't have range. And who do.

(I have never had a problem, where i didn't have range left. I normally can do 2x fun rides, before i need to charge my wheel.)

 

18 minutes ago, LowFlyingSquirrel said:

Unfortunately you must be limited by inadequate motorways or nothing interesting to see. If you could drive at 150 km/h. You would go a lot further.

Well our country is pretty small.. Same for our city's. Nice speed doh.

Edited December 1, 2022 by Funky

[pHghost]

What would a new small & light wheel add that the current models don't offer?

[LowFlyingSquirrel]

I would like updated design, technology and performance. I would like professional manufacturing so unforunately that narrows my considerations considerably. My ideal weight for a light wheel would be less than 14 kg with ability to cruise at 60 km / h. Suspension optional to keep costs lower. Yes i am dreaming haha.

[pHghost]

58 minutes ago, LowFlyingSquirrel said:

less than 14 kg with ability to cruise at 60 km/h

Yeah, no chance, sadly. Even the T4, at more than double the weight, barely cruises at that speed.

Professional manufacturing, sure, would be nice, but that's not guaranteed with Chinese manufacturers.

The V8S should be decently built, but obviously the speed is about 1/2 of what you want. But I guess you have to look at it from that perspective, what does the technology allow? When you look at the best wheel in that category, how do you improve from there? If you want to maintain the weight, look at the V8S, and if you want faster, then you need a stronger (thus probably bigger and heavier) motor. And maybe bigger pedals to be safer at the higher speed? What will you take away to make up for the gained weight? Battery, perhaps, but then the range will suffer quite a bit, and a smaller battery pack might struggle with maintaining those speeds, too. You're cornered, essentially. Nowhere to go to improve much.

I'm not sure how (or why) you'd need to update the design, if it's just that. Unless there is something specific and more practical that you have in mind?

Technology... well, there you have the sticking point. The issue is that in order for something like what you suggest to be possible, you would need a technological breakthrough, and we simply don't have that, not in the EUC world, or anywhere else. The most likely improvement is in batteries. If you can have batteries that are smaller and lighter but hold the same amount of charge (and hopefully safer too!), you can start doing things. But until then (and that might be years or decades away ), there really isn't much that can be done to improve the wheels in the lower weight category.

Edited December 1, 2022 by pHghost

[Funky]

4 minutes ago, pHghost said:

Yeah, no chance, sadly. Even the T4, at more than double the weight, barely cruises at that speed.

Professional manufacturing, sure, would be nice, but that's not guaranteed.

The V8S should be decently built, but obviously the speed is about 1/2 of what you want. But I guess you have to look at it from that perspective, what does the technology allow? Who you look at the best wheel in that category, how do you improve from there? If you want to maintain the weight, look at the V8S, and if you want faster, then you need a stronger (thus probably bigger and heavier) motor. And maybe bigger pedals to be safer at the higher speed? What will you take away to make up for the gained weight? Battery, perhaps, but then the range will suffer quite a bit, and a smaller battery pack might struggle with maintaining those speeds, too. You're cornered, essentially. Nowhere to go to improve much.

I'm not sure how (or why) you'd need to update the design, if it's just that. Unless there is something specific and more practical that you have in mind?

Technology... well, there you have the sticking point. The issue is that in order for something like what you suggest to be possible, you would need a technological breakthrough, and we simply don't have that, not in the EUC world, or anywhere else. The most likely improvement is in batteries. If you can have batteries that are smaller and lighter but hold the same amount of charge (and hopefully safer too!), you can start doing things. But until then (and that might be years or decades away ), there really isn't much that can be done to improve the wheels in the lower weight category.

Simply add suspension - that's first thing that comes to mind. Aside from new/updated look.

They could simply change color of said wheel. And some dumbasses would still buy it.  Simply for looks.

Anything "new" sells.

 

 

[LowFlyingSquirrel]

53 minutes ago, pHghost said:

Yeah, no chance, sadly. Even the T4, at more than double the weight, barely cruises at that speed.

Professional manufacturing, sure, would be nice, but that's not guaranteed with Chinese manufacturers.

The V8S should be decently built, but obviously the speed is about 1/2 of what you want. But I guess you have to look at it from that perspective, what does the technology allow? When you look at the best wheel in that category, how do you improve from there? If you want to maintain the weight, look at the V8S, and if you want faster, then you need a stronger (thus probably bigger and heavier) motor. And maybe bigger pedals to be safer at the higher speed? What will you take away to make up for the gained weight? Battery, perhaps, but then the range will suffer quite a bit, and a smaller battery pack might struggle with maintaining those speeds, too. You're cornered, essentially. Nowhere to go to improve much.

I'm not sure how (or why) you'd need to update the design, if it's just that. Unless there is something specific and more practical that you have in mind?

Technology... well, there you have the sticking point. The issue is that in order for something like what you suggest to be possible, you would need a technological breakthrough, and we simply don't have that, not in the EUC world, or anywhere else. The most likely improvement is in batteries. If you can have batteries that are smaller and lighter but hold the same amount of charge (and hopefully safer too!), you can start doing things. But until then (and that might be years or decades away ), there really isn't much that can be done to improve the wheels in the lower weight category.

I don't think we are anywhere near the frontier of possibility with current EUC. Compare Ninebot G30 with the recent p100s and gt2, and those to the competition.

The V8S doesn't even have a display. I think the trolley handle on the v10f is probably better. Also that doesn't even have a display. 

By technology, i want to see app improvements, nfc, gps and other quaility of life improvements.

Also, and i forgot to mention, above all we need improvement in legalisation making these vehicles legal.

Lighter and more durable motors and chasis are possible. We don't even have an EUC with an inbuilt charger yet.

I am not an expert in this category but i feel like the technological breakthroughs are already there waiting to be implemented.

[KiwiMark]

13 hours ago, Funky said:

What numbers??

The numbers of sales for every wheel that the manufacturers make.  They know better than you or me what wheels sell the best.  The lines that sell well get improved upon.  The slow selling models get axed.

13 hours ago, Funky said:

 

And range of 50km is a lot! If you think that's nothing. Go walk the same distance with feet - we all are used to ride, that we don't even think about range what's lot and little.

With 50km i can ride my whole city 2x times and all back roads and so on.. Heck if you needed to ride the same distance with regular bike, even then you would not say that's nothing.

With car i don't think we have ever ridden more than 500km in one go. (So called family trip..)

I've ridden further than 50km on a bicycle, that is only ~2 hours of riding.  One side of my city to the other and back isn't all that far, but I don't only ride around my city.  There are bike tracks I've ridden and some are over 50km in one direction (still need to get back to where you started so it takes over 100km to go there and back.  Walking is different - 2 hours by bicycle would take 10 hours walking, that isn't very practical.  In fact, I have bought bicycles, cars, motorcycles, e-scooters and EUCs to NOT have to walk.

In a car 500km isn't very far, that's only 6 - 7 hours of driving.  By motorcycle I've covered 1,700km in 3 days on several different occasions (at least 5 times) and it would have been quicker and easier to cover that distance if I hadn't lost quite a few hours waiting for a ferry and then sailing on that ferry.

[pHghost]

4 hours ago, Funky said:

Simply add suspension - that's first thing that comes to mind. Aside from new/updated look.

They could simply change color of said wheel. And some dumbasses would still buy it.  Simply for looks.

Anything "new" sells.

I'm sure "new" will sell. That does not mean it is a worthwhile update. If it's just a visually repackaged old wheel, what's the point for the end user?

Suspension, sure (more smaller suspension wheels are coming to compete against the T4), but that certainly won't result in a small and light wheel.

[Funky]

1 hour ago, KiwiMark said:

The numbers of sales for every wheel that the manufacturers make.  They know better than you or me what wheels sell the best.  The lines that sell well get improved upon.  The slow selling models get axed.

Completely ignore my point that there isn't been released any light wheel past 3 years. Aside from Mten4.. No new lights wheels = no sales in light wheels department.

If only heavy wheels are being made - OFC heavy wheels will be sold mostly. Light market is simply forgotten/ignored.

It's simply more profitable to them to sell big wheels vs small. No need to be genius there.. It takes the same amount of time to build small vs big wheel. Sell for 1000$ vs for 3000-5000$. Which one would you sell? Small or big? Doh... Real world case middle class wheels sells the best. And in my country from what i have seen it's the lights.

1 hour ago, KiwiMark said:

I've ridden further than 50km on a bicycle, that is only ~2 hours of riding.  One side of my city to the other and back isn't all that far, but I don't only ride around my city.  There are bike tracks I've ridden and some are over 50km in one direction (still need to get back to where you started so it takes over 100km to go there and back.  Walking is different - 2 hours by bicycle would take 10 hours walking, that isn't very practical.  In fact, I have bought bicycles, cars, motorcycles, e-scooters and EUCs to NOT have to walk.

In a car 500km isn't very far, that's only 6 - 7 hours of driving.  By motorcycle I've covered 1,700km in 3 days on several different occasions (at least 5 times) and it would have been quicker and easier to cover that distance if I hadn't lost quite a few hours waiting for a ferry and then sailing on that ferry.

I was only comparing distances. Someone who needs only 10km range daily - 50km is plenty. (Small wheel - no need for range.) People who buy small wheels, buy them because they are light. And portable. Easy to store and can be ridden without any gear at slow speeds.

For your needs - it can clearly be seen, that your options are only heavy wheels. Great for you, as you have many, many, many options of recently released wheels. Dam i could name all of them.. But it would take to much time. Gotway alone have released so many options for you.. Enjoy your 35-50kg wheel.

We here are talking about small wheels again... > Slow/small/light/"little" range.  For small ~20kg wheel it's amazing range. Even ks16s that weighs only 18kg can do ~60km range.. It's amazing! NO other pev can give that kind of performance. Scooters are much bigger and for same weight you get less speed/range.

54 minutes ago, pHghost said:

I'm sure "new" will sell. That does not mean it is a worthwhile update. If it's just a visually repackaged old wheel, what's the point for the end user?

Suspension, sure (more smaller suspension wheels are coming to compete against the T4), but that certainly won't result in a small and light wheel.

No point for end user.. Simply refreshed wheels - to make them sell again.

Smaller yes. But how small? T4 was already in middle class. Almost in heavy class.

 

Best thing that could be updated on small wheels - FAST charging. Those ~1000Wh packs could be recharged very fast. 2-3Hrs = fully recharged. Recharge at anything that has a wall socket. Also most can simply charge any wheel at their workplace = 2x range.

Edited December 2, 2022 by Funky

[KiwiMark]

58 minutes ago, Funky said:

It's simply more profitable to them to sell big wheels vs small. No need to be genius there.. It takes the same amount of time to build small vs big wheel. Sell for 1000$ vs for 3000-5000$. Which one would you sell? Small or big? Doh... Real world case middle class wheels sells the best. And in my country from what i have seen it's the lights.

Which one would I sell? Both, obviously! As long as I could sell each in enough numbers at a price where I was making a good profit then I would sell both - the bigger wheels to the people that want bigger wheels and the smaller wheels to the people that want smaller wheels.  If one company decided to abandon the manufacture of smaller wheels despite there being a really good demand for them, one of their rivals would quickly seize on that opportunity and release some wheels to fill the demand.

So, why is it that there hasn't been any light wheels released in the last 3 years?  If there is plenty of demand from people willing to pay a decent price to have a light wheel, why is no one making those wheels to tap into that demand?  Look at how many different models Begode make, why on earth wouldn't they add a couple more light wheels to their line-up if there is good money to be made from doing so?  Unless the demand just isn't very good for light wheels . . . 

Of course I'm talking globally here.  No one cares if light wheels would be popular where you live, the manufacturers only care about what the total global sales would be of any new product that they choose to make.  Could they sell enough at a high enough price to make it worth producing them or not?  That is really the only question that they care about, what else matters to them?

So, when was the MCM5 V2 released?  How well has it sold?  I suspect that sales have not been all that great if Begode hasn't put out more wheels that size/weight to capitalise on all the fantastic sales that you seem to think it must surely be getting.  You act like Begode must be selling huge numbers of these wheels and somehow don't realise it.  The reality is that they know how well that wheel sells and that knowledge informs them as to whether they should make more wheels like that.

What about the Inmotion V8F and V10F, how well do they sell?  Do they do everything you want?  They are available and if you don't buy them then maybe they will disappear?  If they sell in good numbers then they will continue to be made.  Even if those sell well, it hasn't stopped Inmotion from developing the V13 which is most definitely a very heavy wheel.  The V12 is a real lightweight compared to the V13!

[Tawpie]

I think it's about where is there room for the market to grow. Long range and fast (heavy) is just getting tapped. Suspension is in the same boat.

Can you grow the small/light market? Possibly, but it'll take imagination because for the most part, small and light has gone about as far as it can go (given the current state of batteries etc). Sure, there's the casual market—but that's a fairly known quantity.

[Paul A]

EUCs evolve to become so heavy and powerful that;

they have large pedals/seat to carry a pillion passenger

have a touch screen display akin to a phone, with internet/phone connectivity

lateral self balancing, enabling wheel to follow rider at walking pace.  No need for trolley.

rider activated high beam headlights.

AI deployed airbags at high speed crashes to protect wheel and persons.

wheel data connectivity to helmet visor head up display.

self diagnosis/alerts for repairs/maintenance.

BMS that prevents fire.

 

And then large scale solid state batteries become reality, and they become redundant...

[techyiam]

At Alienrides, the V13 preorders are out selling the V12 HT. The V13 costs considerable more than the V12 HT. Additionally, the Master Pro out sells the V13. According to Zen Lee, he thinks Alienrides is one of the larger distributors in the US. So, there apppears to be a healthy demand for big, heavy, fast wheels in the US.

As for myself, currently with my V12, I don't see one thing that I need from my T3, except for teaching others how to ride. Right now I am progressing well with my Abrams. In the foreseeable future, I see myself buying another big, heavy, fast wheel.

Edited December 2, 2022 by techyiam

[Tawpie]

13 minutes ago, techyiam said:

the V13 preorders are out selling the V12 HT

I'm kind of sad to hear that because if there is a problem with batch 1, IM will have bought in a lot of inventory that they'll be reluctant to scrap. I think KS got themselves in that boat... sitting on a huge cache of motors that turned out to be faulty and a boatload of partially or fully assembled wheels before they figured out that the grease in the 'sliders' turns to glue.

Big pre-order volume will probably mean delayed fixes while the manufacturer uses up their inventory. GW is taking a smarter road IMO, they can react quicker because they're almost building-to-order.

[mrelwood]

12 hours ago, pHghost said:

What would a new small & light wheel add that the current models don't offer?

Not much different than what new large and heavy wheels can offer compared to older models.

Current sub 20kg wheels have lots to improve: 2.5” or 3” tire, individual cell group monitoring, thicker or hollow core axle, improved ride mode settings, modern ride feel, beefier mainboard/mosfets for increased peak power, display, V11 style headlights, ground clearance, spiked honeycomb pedals, ergonomics (excluding Inmotions), etc.

 

4 hours ago, KiwiMark said:

why on earth wouldn't they add a couple more light wheels to their line-up if there is good money to be made from doing so?  Unless the demand just isn't very good for light wheels . . . 

All other manufacturers than Begode mainly concentrate on a single wheel at a time, and publish about one model per year. Currently KS & IM are also focusing in the fast and large category, since they didn’t have any such models before. I’m sure they know very well that their smaller wheels still sell, so it would make little sense to focus on them instead of trying to conquer a whole new segment.

Also, KS now has one 30+ kg model, Inmotion soon has two. They both have two or more sub 20 kg models being made and sold all the time. If small wheels didn’t sell, why would this be?

Begode is the single manufacturer that behaves different. They have loads of trouble getting their large models both be made and sell well. So they try again, and again. And if a competition is faster or more powerful, they again need to make a new model.

Are we really expecting EUC manufacturers to make only smart and rational business decisions by western standards? I’m not. Can’t see why we’d expect them to be masters of business when many of their design and especially marketing choices are so obviously stupid. By western standards at least.

 Even if they were smart in that regard, they probably aren’t comparing the amount of wheels that sell, but the total revenue that they bring. You need to sell probably at least five $1k wheels to earn what you get from a single $4k wheel.

 

4 hours ago, KiwiMark said:

What about the Inmotion V8F

Wasn’t V8 globally the most sold model still last year?

People who buy V8’s and 16D’s rarely do it at speciality shops like Alienrides etc. We’re mostly talking about beginners here, who don’t know about this forum, and buy their wheels from Amazon, or local sport/electronics stores.

 

4 hours ago, KiwiMark said:

If they sell in good numbers then they will continue to be made.

14D is maybe 6 years old, V10 maybe 5. They must keep selling somewhere because they are still being made.

[LowFlyingSquirrel]

I think light wheels face much heavier competition from e-scooters. You can get a lot of scooter for a few hundred. Better price & performance compared to whats available for EUCs. I would compare a V8 which has around 500wh and goes 30 km/h. to a Ninebot G30, which also has around 500wh and goes 30 km/h. One costs 1200€ and the other 450-600€.

Edited December 2, 2022 by LowFlyingSquirrel

[Funky]

1 hour ago, LowFlyingSquirrel said:

I think light wheels face much heavier competition from e-scooters. You can get a lot of scooter for a few hundred. Better price & performance compared to whats available for EUCs. I would compare a V8 which has around 500wh and goes 30 km/h. to a Ninebot G30, which also has around 500wh and goes 30 km/h. One costs 1200€ and the other 450-600€.

Doh ride quality is day & night apart.  Weight, ease of carrying around.

Also euc don't have moving parts, that can go bad over time. Like brakes, steering stem hinge. 

Doh water rating on G30 is something. 

Edited December 2, 2022 by Funky

[LowFlyingSquirrel]

35 minutes ago, Funky said:

Doh water rating on G30 is something

IPx7 on battery and controller, maybe motor, basically a submarine lol. The controller is like dipped in a waterproof coating that completely covers the electrical board. 

My g30 has rear motor brake and front drum brake, basically indestructible. Disks may be easily damaged. 

G30 is 18 or 20 kg, and i think it could be 14 kg without sacrificing anything. 

I would geuss the v8 would be more comfortable off road or in the forest, maybe on gravel. But g30 also have pneumatic self healing tyres. 

It also very useful for moving large boxes or beer crates or slap a few shopping bags on the handle bars.

Edited December 2, 2022 by LowFlyingSquirrel