Hellkitten Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 @Cobaltsaber are you saying that the Sherman S rides LESS like a Sherman then the EX30?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrabChampion Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 Just now, Hellkitten said: @Cobaltsaber are you saying that the Sherman S rides LESS like a Sherman then the EX30?! Yes that is precisely what someone who demo'd all the new wheels told me. Honestly I believe it haha. Will definitely confirm once my EX30 arrives 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawnei Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 53 minutes ago, jmsjms said: Everything the same without sacrificing its positives, except the wheel is scaled down to be about 15-20% smaller -- which in turn makes it lighter... something like 60-80 lbs in weight instead of 100 lbs. Doesn't really work like that, you have to save weight somewhere, most likely batteries, there's a reason all this high capacity wheels weigh so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmsjms Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, Rawnei said: Doesn't really work like that, you have to save weight somewhere, most likely batteries, there's a reason all this high capacity wheels weigh so much. I'm not an engineer, but just as an observer of human ingenuity, things always improve in the technical side as long as we're not talking about intrinsic or planned obsolescence... or another world war; other than that, I don't see how upcoming new inventions and technologies will not improve the EUCs. EUCs ten years from now will be better than the ones today, and you may have something like an Mten-4 in size that will be as powerful as the current ex30. Then fast forward a century or two later, those things may even run on cold fusion... and on and on. Edited February 25, 2023 by jmsjms Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrabChampion Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 4 hours ago, jmsjms said: I'm not an engineer, but just as an observer of human ingenuity, things always improve in the technical side as long as we're not talking about intrinsic or planned obsolescence... or another world war; other than that, I don't see how upcoming new inventions and technologies will not improve the EUCs. EUCs ten years from now will be better than the ones today, and you may have something like an Mten-4 in size that will be as powerful as the current ex30. Then fast forward a century or two later, those things may even run on cold fusion... and on and on. We are severely limited by battery technology currently. We wont see a more powerful EUC without battery chemistry drastically changing and I wont see that happening for the next 5-10 years tbh. EUCs are too niche so we'll probably see better batteries in other consumer electronics before they even reach EUCs. 44lbs of the EX30 are all the battery boxes. The motor + tire weighs 30lbs and the rest of the chassis, suspension, motherboard, etc is the other 30lbs. So much potential weight savings with the batteries if they could just be lighter, but pack the same energy density Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koto Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 14 hours ago, koto said: Very tough choice: Commander Pro is lighter, more nimble => easier to use in a city. EX30 is more stable especially for higher speed => more comfortable for long range ride. If you like seated riding the EX30 is far better (I like it just for fun so it is not a key feature for me) So I cannot say exactly which one I prefer. I like these 2 wheels. Globally both are definitely OK for me. Hard to say which one I prefer ... A little more thing to add. These last days something came to my mind. If I have to make a choice now I would probably choose the EX30 for the following reasons. I already own a master. It is a better choice for riding in a city. So, the EX30/Commander-Pro is more for long range ride. The rear light (a security element) of the EX30 is much more efficient that the Commander Pro one. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawnei Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 7 hours ago, jmsjms said: I'm not an engineer, but just as an observer of human ingenuity, things always improve in the technical side as long as we're not talking about intrinsic or planned obsolescence... or another world war; other than that, I don't see how upcoming new inventions and technologies will not improve the EUCs. EUCs ten years from now will be better than the ones today, and you may have something like an Mten-4 in size that will be as powerful as the current ex30. Then fast forward a century or two later, those things may even run on cold fusion... and on and on. Your question was if there was any upcoming wheels like the EX30 not if any of us could predict the far distant future. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmsjms Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 Would it be fair to say that based on the tear-down and on the observations of the assembly, this wheel can last many years, and maybe 10-20,000 miles or more!? What would be the first part to break down -- that will not be able to be repaired any more? If I bought the ex30, I would would prefer not to go past the wheel's warranty, yet at the same time I will be tempted to keep it after the warranty expires... because otherwise the purchases of new wheels will turn out to be too costly if a new wheel had to be bought every year or two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKW Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 37 minutes ago, jmsjms said: Would it be fair to say that based on the tear-down and on the observations of the assembly, this wheel can last many years, and maybe 10-20,000 miles or more!? What would be the first part to break down -- that will not be able to be repaired any more? If I bought the ex30, I would would prefer not to go past the wheel's warranty, yet at the same time I will be tempted to keep it after the warranty expires... because otherwise the purchases of new wheels will turn out to be too costly if a new wheel had to be bought every year or two. i've never had a begode wheel, but i would expect 2 years at a minimum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrabChampion Posted February 26, 2023 Share Posted February 26, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, jmsjms said: Would it be fair to say that based on the tear-down and on the observations of the assembly, this wheel can last many years, and maybe 10-20,000 miles or more!? What would be the first part to break down -- that will not be able to be repaired any more? If I bought the ex30, I would would prefer not to go past the wheel's warranty, yet at the same time I will be tempted to keep it after the warranty expires... because otherwise the purchases of new wheels will turn out to be too costly if a new wheel had to be bought every year or two. I've seen sherman's last 20,000km with only a tire swap required. Then again i've also seen 16,000km on an EXN with minimal maintenance (waterproofed and tire changes). I think the most unknown reliability of the EX30 will come down to the electronics. Who knows if the motherboard will burn or you'll get hall sensor issues down the line, but the rest of the wheel looks solid as long as you don't crash it hard. Just basic maintenance with the tire, bearings and suspension shock/sliders. I dont see a major mechanical flaw in the design that will fail over time Edited February 26, 2023 by Cobaltsaber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmsjms Posted February 26, 2023 Share Posted February 26, 2023 3 minutes ago, Cobaltsaber said: I've seen sherman's last 20,000km with only a tire swap required. Then again i've also seen 16,000km on an EXN with minimal maintenance (waterproofed and tire changes). I think the most unknown reliability of the EX30 will come down to the electronics. Who knows if the motherboard will burn or you'll get hall sensor issues down the line, but the rest of the wheel looks solid as long as you don't crash it hard. Just basic maintenance with the tire, bearings and suspension shock/sliders. I dont see a major mechanical flaw in the design that will fail over time How is the maintenance done on the bearings and the suspension shock/sliders? The wheel will have to be opened up? Man, I don't think I'm up for that task. Is this ex30 more bottom heavy than the Sherman-S? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrabChampion Posted February 26, 2023 Share Posted February 26, 2023 (edited) 25 minutes ago, jmsjms said: How is the maintenance done on the bearings and the suspension shock/sliders? The wheel will have to be opened up? Man, I don't think I'm up for that task. Is this ex30 more bottom heavy than the Sherman-S? All the high mileage wheels I know of are daily beaters ridden in rain, dust, all conditions. There isnt a single wheel in existance that I think can ride 10,000km without needing to be opened up or atleast checked for maintenance. Those riders have their bearings seals opened and repacked with marine grease to make sure they are water resistant. If you are riding more casually and dont rely on your wheel to commute, I dont think this is totally necessary. I have seen some higher mileage on completely stock bearings as well. If the bearing seals on the EX30 hold up, then it should be pretty solid for a long time as well. The suspension sliders eventually become sticky and begode put up a guide on how to adjust the grub screws on the sliders for optimal tolerances. Also wouldnt hurt to keep the sliders lubed. The shock seals will eventually leak/fail so you can replace the seals or the shock entirely. Just the territory that comes with suspension wheels and more parts. Edited February 26, 2023 by Cobaltsaber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmsjms Posted February 26, 2023 Share Posted February 26, 2023 How long would it take to disassemble the wheel in order to access the bearings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punxatawneyjoe Posted February 26, 2023 Share Posted February 26, 2023 17 minutes ago, jmsjms said: How long would it take to disassemble the wheel in order to access the bearings? In the tear down video, takes them about 8 minutes to get to the bearings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrabChampion Posted February 26, 2023 Share Posted February 26, 2023 11 minutes ago, jmsjms said: How long would it take to disassemble the wheel in order to access the bearings? The "master" design of the new begode wheels you can drop the motor out without even disconnecting the phase wires in under 30 minutes. Popping the motor covers off usually takes maybe a couple hours for someone doing it the first time. If you're experienced, you can probably pop out the covers in another 30 minutes. So probably about an hour to get to the bearings if you are experienced 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmsjms Posted February 26, 2023 Share Posted February 26, 2023 Can the EUC sellers do that in the shop, so that the buyers don't have to be dealing with removing the tires? I would rather get the marine grease right at the beginning, so that I'll never have to be doing it myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrabChampion Posted February 26, 2023 Share Posted February 26, 2023 Just now, jmsjms said: Can the EUC sellers do that in the shop, so that the buyers don't have to be dealing with removing the tires? I would rather get the marine grease right at the beginning, so that I'll never have to be doing it myself. With the new bearing seals on the EX30, marine grease might not even be necessary. You also have to regrease eventually for maintenance. I think its a good skill to learn how to do basic maintenance yourself on your EUC. Can start with a simple tire change and then move on from there 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted February 26, 2023 Share Posted February 26, 2023 On 2/25/2023 at 4:15 AM, jmsjms said: I'm not an engineer, but just as an observer of human ingenuity, things always improve in the technical side They do, but even the latest EUCs use the exact same base motor design and practically the same Li-ion batteries than the very first EUCs over 10 years ago. They have only made the motor coils and magnets larger and the structure sturdier to withstand more power and speed. And they just use more of practically the same batteries. So the motor and battery technology hasn’t advanced in a sense that would bring any new solutions, techniques, or huge weight savings. Bicycles have had quite big technological advancements in frame materials, adding gears, and adding suspension. EUCs have only had suspension as a technological advancement. I don’t consider more of the same (W or Wh) being an advancement. On 2/25/2023 at 4:15 AM, jmsjms said: I don't see how upcoming new inventions and technologies will not improve the EUCs. They surely will, but there is no timetable for “upcoming inventions”. And like was said, they will trickle down to EUCs quite slowly. On 2/25/2023 at 4:15 AM, jmsjms said: EUCs ten years from now will be better than the ones today, and you may have something like an Mten-4 in size that will be as powerful as the current ex30. Not a chance. That would require the mentioned cold fusion, and a similar jump in motor technology. They aren’t happening in a decade. Or two. I don’t think the power/weight ratio of the EUC motors have changed much at all in 10 years. It’s just more of the same. Maybe 20% for the batteries though. 15 hours ago, Cobaltsaber said: You also have to regrease eventually for maintenance. There should be no reason to regrease the bearings in the first 15’000 miles unless the external seal fails. Replacing bearings only became a thing when we moved to hollow bore motors with inadequate or missing seals. The bearings themselves would otherwise last the lifetime of the wheel. Unless abused constantly of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhpr262 Posted February 26, 2023 Share Posted February 26, 2023 On 2/24/2023 at 11:20 PM, jmsjms said: When a short 140 lbs guy (like me) tries to ride it, is the ex30 going to feel like I am trying to ride a horse? I'm a 6'3'', 260lbs guy and I can tell you the EX20 I just got feels not like a horse but like a whole frigging carriage between my legs. It is monstruously big and heavy, even with 10.000 miles on a V10F and a V11 under my belt. The first 80miles or so I was seriously thinking about returning it, even though what I most enjoy about EUCs is doing long, multi-day trips with them and I really need a large battery. I am slowly getting the hang of it now and it has started to feel better, but you can feel the weight every second. The super knobby tire probably doesnt help, but I need that tire too because I wont have to fear broken glass, thorn or jagged rocks with it on my rim. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techyiam Posted February 26, 2023 Share Posted February 26, 2023 45 minutes ago, mhpr262 said: I'm a 6'3'', 260lbs guy and I can tell you the EX20 I just got feels not like a horse but like a whole frigging carriage between my legs. It is monstruously big and heavy, even with 10.000 miles on a V10F and a V11 under my belt. Thanks for sharing that. This confirms my suspicion that the EX20S is a big, heavy wheel, and rides like one. Kevin at e-rides was asked why he chose to buy himself an Abrams instead of the EX20S. Kevin is not a big guy. His reply was that the EX20S was too big and unwieldy for him to ride. Madpack also commented that the Abrams is a agile wheel for its size and weight. My own experience is that the Abrams is quite agile as an urban commuting wheel. On some of routes, I have to make some very tight turns or maneuvering. Additionally, once acclimated to it, it isn't that high effort to ride, especially if you put in Kevin's capacitor mod. That is one reason as to why I am rather hesitant with the the EX30. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrabChampion Posted February 26, 2023 Share Posted February 26, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, mhpr262 said: I'm a 6'3'', 260lbs guy and I can tell you the EX20 I just got feels not like a horse but like a whole frigging carriage between my legs. It is monstruously big and heavy, even with 10.000 miles on a V10F and a V11 under my belt. The first 80miles or so I was seriously thinking about returning it, even though what I most enjoy about EUCs is doing long, multi-day trips with them and I really need a large battery. I am slowly getting the hang of it now and it has started to feel better, but you can feel the weight every second. The super knobby tire probably doesnt help, but I need that tire too because I wont have to fear broken glass, thorn or jagged rocks with it on my rim. to be fair you are coming from a v10f and v11 which are relatively easy wheels to handle. Inmotion wheels tend to be thinner and more maneuverable. You would likely say the same if you transitioned over to a sherman max which weighs 20lbs more than your v11 and has a knobby kenda 262 tire. I think most people who are already used to a sherman class wheel will make a slight adjustment and be on their way. I own an RS, have ridden bigger wheels before and didnt have a hard time transitioning over to a v13. Which is a jump up in weight AND wheel size. I dont think the ex30 is gonna be THAT unwieldy. It has the same amount of batteries as all the other 3600wh wheels. The ex20 is also balanced higher than the new ex30 Edit: not to mention the ex20 has a thinner rim which made the knobby tire handle terrible with the weight further out from the center. The wider rim of the sherman and ex30 will make it much nicer to handle Edited February 26, 2023 by Cobaltsaber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrabChampion Posted February 26, 2023 Share Posted February 26, 2023 This guy isnt leaning into the stairs enough for it to be smooth, but that means the wheel should clunk even harder down the stairs. No issues with clipping once the suspension is setup right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trailless Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 Just got an email from Alienrides telling me the price is $3799 for the ex30. Maybe I'll get mine this week or next! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post techyiam Posted February 27, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted February 27, 2023 Hsiang's long awaited video on the EX30. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg X Posted February 27, 2023 Share Posted February 27, 2023 2 hours ago, techyiam said: Hsiang's long awaited video on the EX30. it seems that this time we got..... very good wheel, good quality build and much more powerfull than sherman. Batch2-3 should be really refined and worth to buy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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