Anyone else thinks it's really dumb how many EUC content creators wear dark or low visibility clothes that blend in with everything while aggressively riding, lane splitting, and rolling through stop lights/signs?

[Funky]

In city everything is dark, more or less "gray".. So white or that work west will stand out more. Colors that aren't around makes you stand out more.

Go wear a ducking clown custome - everybody will notice you.  Or stormtrooper costume. It's clear which is the winner here.  "Honk-Honk"

 

Edited July 6, 2022 by Funky

[techyiam]

Based own my experiences, the three things that seem to help me to avoid close calls and accidents have been as follows:

(1) Drive or ride defensively, using strategies based on US Marine Close Quarter Combat Techniques. (ie. π-ing an angle)

(2) Always use Daytime Running Lights, and Headlights that are bright but not blinding, and properly aimed. (On motorcycles, I aim the low beam a hair higher.)

(3) Drive or Ride as if we are all playing for the same team. 

Edited July 6, 2022 by techyiam

[tenofnine]

All white head to toe I wouldn't argue has a chance of getting seen because your legs and torso have a chance to be juxtaposed against black and gray backdrops in the city. But still I'd argue that if that stormtrooper were all bright yellow/orange/red he'd be so much easier to see and have far less of a chance of blending into anything in the city.

The same goes for sport cars or cars in general, a bright white paint job compared to bright red/yellow/orange which are you going to notice?

Edited July 6, 2022 by tenofnine

[mike_bike_kite]

I guess there's always something we do that upsets someone else. I'm actually starting to develop an annoyance over really long thread titles at the moment  

[The Brahan Seer]

@bracky72 and @tenofnine You are both right..

In Grampian [a region in Scotland] they changed the colours of their fire engines in 1998 from red to white because studies found white and yellow were easier to see at high speed.

So maybe the optimum gear would be white with yellow hi-viz.  

[yoos]

1 hour ago, tenofnine said:

Yea but wearing a short skirt isn't illegal, and women who wear short skirts are allowed to walk on the sidewalks. We currently all ride vehicles that are either illegal or not sanctioned. So your analogy doesn't make sense.

You have a point regarding USA but in many places EUCs are already perfectly legal. If I am not mistaken Paris is a prime example. And even if EUCs are in a grey legal zone bicycles aren't, and scooters aren't illegal either. Yet your general argument applies to the latter vehicles as well. Yet, in most countries I know about there is no hi-viz rider clothing mandated. There's usually just regulation concerning the vehicle (it has to have a particular, country-dependent set of lights and reflectors) and you have to wear a helmet. Apparently working lights on a vehicle are deemed to provide enough visibility and it's the responsibility of other traffic participants to notice such vehicles even if it's harder than spotting a truck or hearing a motorcycle.

The hi-viz vests worn by workers are more about universal visibility (they should be seen not only by regular traffic but by operators of machinery, other workers etc). Unlike an EUC rider they also typically don't carry a light on them. If they do work on a street this often involves some extra obstruction of traffic which increases danger. And finally, they have a job to focus all their attention on (instead of looking out for cars) while an EUC rider's duty is to be an alert participant of traffic. 

[tenofnine]

1 hour ago, The Brahan Seer said:

@bracky72 and @tenofnine You are both right..

In Grampian [a region in Scotland] they changed the colours of their fire engines in 1998 from red to white because studies found white and yellow were easier to see at high speed.

So maybe the optimum gear would be white with yellow hi-viz.  

This is interesting to me but all the fire engines in the US and most other places are still bright red (or some variation) as far as I know. I personally consider this far more visible. I thought this was just a picture of a bus or crane truck when I first glanced at your post, confusing.

Fire Engines also have the advantage of being massive, very visible, and able to destroy anything that would possibly get in their way. These are 3 advantages a person riding an EUC definitely doesn't have.

[Tawpie]

22 minutes ago, tenofnine said:

This is interesting to me but all the fire engines in the US and most other places are still bright red (or some variation) as far as I know. I personally consider this far more visible

I asked a firefighter about this when I noticed their new fire trucks changed from hi-viz yellow/green back to red. He said that with all of the reflector paint and decals, and so so so many flashing lights, that the color of the truck didn't matter. And the firefighters preferred red, because, you know, all fire trucks are red!

[litewave]

4 hours ago, bracky72 said:

Look at the picture dude. It can’t be anymore clear. 
 

Show me a picture that proves your point?  Cause I can show you lots that prove mine. 

The white helmet in your photo also appears more visibile to me because more of the helmet is actually visible. I can see the chin portion whereas on the green helmet I can only see the top. It looks like the green helmet is sitting lower in the grass.

Also, not sure that is a real high-vis green or just a bright green. My original TSG Pass Pro has a similar green but isn't high-vis. I think a high-vis yellow or orange would be a better comparison. Same comment for the lightweight jackets: the yellow looks like a plain yellow.

I agree that white does stand out in natural landscapes, but because it doesn't belong there, when quickly scanning the surroundings. In an urban environment, reflective true hi-vis colors should be more noticeable.

 

[The Brahan Seer]

1 hour ago, tenofnine said:

I thought this was just a picture of a bus or crane truck when I first glanced at your post, confusing.

Haha yes our vehicles tend to be a tad smaller than US counterparts. Thats a standard British fire engine for you.  IIRC i think they say the white showed up better at night than red, but afaik its the only region in the UK that does have white trucks the rest are red with hi-viz stripes lights etc. Like everyone else. 

Its a sad fact that even with flashing lights, horns blaring and every size or colour  some people still don't see or are unaware oncoming  emergency response vehicles until they are right on top of them. Safe rides everyone.

 

 

[tenofnine]

12 minutes ago, The Brahan Seer said:

Haha yes our vehicles tend to be a tad smaller than US counterparts. Thats a standard British fire engine for you.  IIRC i think they say the white showed up better at night than red, but afaik its the only region in the UK that does have white trucks the rest are red with hi-viz stripes lights etc. Like everyone else. 

Its a sad fact that even with flashing lights, horns blaring and every size or colour  some people still don't see or are unaware oncoming  emergency response vehicles until they are right on top of them. Safe rides everyone.

 

 

Ah, at night that absolutely makes sense since white will reflect more of the spectrum than red will (at least concerning streetlights).

Last time I visited San Francisco I found most of the cop cars and fire engines are now equipped with "Rumblers" which are these large sound emitting devices under their vehicles that can shake the ground and your car within a radius. It's like a sounds system on steroids your whole body and car vibrates when they are near.

 

1 hour ago, Tawpie said:

I asked a firefighter about this when I noticed their new fire trucks changed from hi-viz yellow/green back to red. He said that with all of the reflector paint and decals, and so so so many flashing lights, that the color of the truck didn't matter. And the firefighters preferred red, because, you know, all fire trucks are red!

I guess it doesn't matter, but some part of me feels that the association of red with firefighter/engine is important. Like blue uniforms being associated with cops or law officers, and the red and blue siren lights being associated with law enforcement.

Color is a simple way of denoting something before even reading or thinking about it. Like if all of a sudden all stop signs became white, seems kind of pointless to take something so iconic and known and change it for only a very marginal benefit (even if actually proven).

Edited July 6, 2022 by tenofnine

[Rawnei]

Color of your clothes doesn't affect much of your visibility in the dark, reflective parts and/or blinking lights in strategic places do though, reflective gear is great if you want to be seen by cars.

[Funky]

2 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

Color of your clothes doesn't affect much of your visibility in the dark, reflective parts and/or blinking lights in strategic places do though, reflective gear is great if you want to be seen by cars.

Don't ride in dark? That's an option also. Or is that only me?  

[Rawnei]

1 hour ago, Funky said:

Don't ride in dark? That's an option also. Or is that only me?  

Yes it's only you.

[Eucner]

White gear is nicely visible, except in the Finnish winter.

[techyiam]

9 hours ago, tenofnine said:

Ah, at night that absolutely makes sense since white will reflect more of the spectrum than red will (at least concerning streetlights).

The rods in the retina of our eyes are more acute in detecting motion, and responsible for our peripheral vision. Yet they cannot distinguish color. Whereas, cones enable us to see bright lights and color. Rods can be a very valuable asset in many traffic situations.

I find that when I ride my euc with headlights on during daytime, almost all drivers can detect my presence, and perhaps even detected my presence a bit earlier than otherwise. The times when they didn't see me are usually when the drivers didn't bother to look.

Edited July 7, 2022 by techyiam

[tenofnine]

6 hours ago, Rawnei said:

Color of your clothes doesn't affect much of your visibility in the dark, reflective parts and/or blinking lights in strategic places do though, reflective gear is great if you want to be seen by cars.

I see the sentiment of what you meant but the color of clothing absolutely still a lot matters at night, retro reflective accents being optimal though I agree. A jogger wearing all black is going to be much harder to see then a jogger wearing all white or bright yellow/green. Light sources like moonlight, streetlights, your headlight/flashlight still reflect off of things and dark colors like black absorb all that light.

Edited July 7, 2022 by tenofnine

[GothamMike]

On 7/5/2022 at 11:55 AM, Funky said:

That's Racist!!! Poor monkey.

All those white kids scaring that poor sasquatch!

[GothamMike]

wear a hi-viz vest (Gillet Juane) Visible day and night

 

[Rawnei]

3 hours ago, tenofnine said:

I see the sentiment of what you meant but the color of clothing absolutely still a lot matters at night, retro reflective accents being optimal though I agree. A jogger wearing all black is going to be much harder to see then a jogger wearing all white or bright yellow/green. Light sources like moonlight, streetlights, your headlight/flashlight still reflect off of things and dark colors like black absorb all that light.

Maybe if you are a pedestrian or another EUC rider then sure but if you ever drove a car at night you will know how difficult it is to see someone without reflective gear in the middle of the night regardless of color of clothes.

[tenofnine]

32 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

Maybe if you are a pedestrian or another EUC rider then sure but if you ever drove a car at night you will know how difficult it is to see someone without reflective gear in the middle of the night regardless of color of clothes.

Yea that's what I'm exactly talking about, where I live there aren't many cycle paths and there are very good laws for cyclist so they are allowed to ride on the road and cars have to share. When I come up behind a cyclist with no lights or reflective gear or attachments on their bike it's so much easier to see someone with a brightly colored helmet and clothing then someone wearing all black. Your headlights still have to reflect off their clothing if they aren't wearing any hi-viz stuff. Black and dark colors still will absorb all that light as opposed to white or bright primary colors.

If a cyclist or one us is for some odd reason not wearing reflective gear or lights I'd much rather them be wearing a color that will actually reflect some light as opposed to wearing all black. Reflective gear and lights trump everything but where I'm at it's pretty common that none of that stuff is worn by some cyclist and joggers.

Edited July 7, 2022 by tenofnine

[Unventor]

On 7/5/2022 at 12:07 PM, tenofnine said:

...and then they get angry or talk shit about how a car almost cut them off or didn't see them? Seems so counter-intuitive and hypocritical to me.
 

Why are you wearing all black or plain clothes that literally blend in the streets and sky?

There is already the pigeon effect on such a slim fast moving object. We are hard to see already; when approaching it looks like we are going half our actual speed then when we zip past it looks like we are flying at 50% faster speed than we are.

Every time I ride I always at least have a bright/reflective piece of clothing/vest/harness/pants and a bright or reflective backpack or covering on my back.

I just don't understand the thought process of wearing basically urban camo while riding a 25-45 mph tiny device. Are you trying to get hit?

I agree 500%.

I think part of this problem is that black in general are perceived at "cool guy". But that is very far from practical or safe. 

The next bit if you drive a car yourself and have done it at night you soon find how scary a non-visual person/bicyclist can be. 

Then add an ever faster pace world and always connected/addicted person operate a mobile while driving a car/truck then adding topic line to stu then it has a tast of bad things will happen. Sooner or later. 

As you can see I took my precautions for when I ride. 

[Funky]

1 hour ago, Unventor said:

I agree 500%.

I think part of this problem is that black in general are perceived at "cool guy". But that is very far from practical or safe. 

The next bit if you drive a car yourself and have done it at night you soon find how scary a non-visual person/bicyclist can be. 

Then add an ever faster pace world and always connected/addicted person operate a mobile while driving a car/truck then adding topic line to stu then it has a tast of bad things will happen. Sooner or later. 

As you can see I took my precautions for when I ride. 

Question: You put that thing on everytime you ride? Even low speed 2-5km trips? And even in hot, hot summer? (I personally would literally better die, than wear that in summer.)  

Doh - kudos for being safe. 

[tenofnine]

2 hours ago, Funky said:

Question: You put that thing on everytime you ride? Even low speed 2-5km trips? And even in hot, hot summer? (I personally would literally better die, than wear that in summer.)  

Doh - kudos for being safe. 

When it gets hot where I'm at just put on one of these, adds no heat.

There are tons of options for hot climates, slap on or velcro wristbands that help a lot with signaling (which is funny cause the same content creators that get pissed that cars don't signal don't even signal themselves on a EUC).

Edited July 7, 2022 by tenofnine

[Funky]

17 minutes ago, tenofnine said:

When it gets how where I'm at just put on one of these, adds no heat.

There are tons of options for hot climates, slap on or velcro wristbands that help a lot with signaling (which is funny cause the same content creators that get pissed that cars don't signal don't even signal themselves on a EUC).

I personally don't have any problems - i can wear whatever i want. Because i don't ride with cars. And generally live in pretty much ghost town. Meaning more or less my side paths, walkways are empty.

Theses days i'm riding T-shirt and jeans.