NYC Euc and car accident

[Nostris]

On 1/17/2022 at 9:44 PM, Rawnei said:

Laws already regulate how you should behave on roads and a lot of riders don't care or don't know, as evident by this video.

This is one of the problems I frequently see. A lot of the people I see riding e-scooters..there aren’t many EUSs here.. clearly don’t have the first idea of the rules of the road, or how they should be behaving on the road. A huge number are quite simply entitled idiots who are a hazard to themselves and other road users. I have met e-scooters riding the wrong way around roundabouts, riding on the wrong side of the road and up one way streets. Sadly, it is pratts like these who will always make life difficult for those who wish to have EUS’s made legal in the way that bicycles are. Frankly, given the amount of traffic in urban areas, nobody should be able to go on public roads without a basic understanding of the rules of the road and without behaving in a reasonably responsible way.. Certainly, third party insurance should be available for all types of vehicle, e-scooters, e-bikes and EUS’s included.

[Miko.cz]

On 1/29/2022 at 3:44 PM, Nostris said:

...Certainly, third party insurance should be available for all types of vehicle, e-scooters, e-bikes and EUS’s included.

I have new property and responsibity insurrance (in Czech), EUC is covered the same way as bike are (but very good question are laws when something happens - how fast I ride, where etc.). So its not perfect, but better than nothing.

UPDATE: unfortunatelly more detailed answer from insurrance company is "we are not covering EUC" - because it does not suits e-bike regulatives (>250W, 25km/h hard limit or maybe cut off)

Edited June 10, 2022 by Miko.cz

[Funky]

1 hour ago, Nostris said:

This is one of the problems I frequently see. A lot of the people I see riding e-scooters..there aren’t many EUSs here.. clearly don’t have the first idea of the rules of the road, or how they should be behaving on the road. A huge number are quite simply entitled idiots who are a hazard to themselves and other road users. I have met e-scooters riding the wrong way around roundabouts, riding on the wrong side of the road and up one way streets. Sadly, it is pratts like these who will always make life difficult for those who wish to have EUS’s made legal in the way that bicycles are. Frankly, given the amount of traffic in urban areas, nobody should be able to go on public roads without a basic understanding of the rules of the road and without behaving in a reasonably responsible way.. Certainly, third party insurance should be available for all types of vehicle, e-scooters, e-bikes and EUS’s included.

There are also people who know rules etc.. But simply ignore them.

Aka: I'm a special snowflake, rules, laws are made for sheeps.. And herds can follow them, not me.

[Paul A]

WHAT AN ACTUAL 40 MPH CRASH LOOKS LIKE ON AN E-BOARD IN NYC!

1,417 views

Oct 25, 2021

 

[TantasStarke]

41 minutes ago, Paul A said:

WHAT AN ACTUAL 40 MPH CRASH LOOKS LIKE ON AN E-BOARD IN NYC!

1,417 views

Oct 25, 2021

 

He's lucky to have gotten away with only a minor injury if the fall happened at 36+mph like he was saying. 

[kolmog]

EUCs are also too hard to brake effectively... I've seen multiple vids where someone ends up going the wrong way around a car because they cant brake fast enough. To add to the problem, hard braking and bumps don't mix, you're probably coming off...

[BKW]

I get you can go fast and ride in the street and everything, but these guys who always ride on the street with traffic and say "it's safer", I'm not sure I agree. It seems to me many EUC riders only say it's less safe in bike lanes because THEY want to ride FAST. If they were to go the same speed as others in bike lanes than I don't see it any more dangerous than other PVs in bike lanes -- it's like they want their cake and eat it too.

I live in Manhattan and I don't really feel bad for guys who crash on the street as much as I don't feel bad for guys with ebikes who crash in the street. In my mind, it's less safe on the street with vehicles that weigh tons and that don't expect riders like EUCs and bikes to be on the street! Btw, I do food deliveries on an ebike in Manhattan as a full time job, so I know what I'm talking about. People say respect the beep, but ya'll need to respect the car lane just as much! If you ride in a car lane then you're automatically taking a larger danger due to the speed involved and because cars don't expect you in the car lane with them. Cars are the king of the road, so treat them that way or you'll end up regretting it eventually. Something about the EUC community that thinks they are supposed to not ride in bike lanes and think the roads with cars are safer... I don't really get that.

Edited February 1, 2022 by bkw

[BKW]

On 1/17/2022 at 6:07 AM, Miko.cz said:

Im not familiar with U.S. traffic and laws, but are they ignoring traffic lights? rapid changing lines? limited rider visibility? (light, reflex, color...) etc. I think it was a hazard and example how to NOT ride.

Exactly. This was the EUC rider's fault for not respecting cars on the road and riding reckless imo.

[Ben Kim]

11 hours ago, bkw said:

I get you can go fast and ride in the street and everything, but these guys who always ride on the street with traffic and say "it's safer", I'm not sure I agree. It seems to me many EUC riders only say it's less safe in bike lanes because THEY want to ride FAST. If they were to go the same speed as others in bike lanes than I don't see it any more dangerous than other PVs in bike lanes -- it's like they want their cake and eat it too.

I live in Manhattan and I don't really feel bad for guys who crash on the street as much as I don't feel bad for guys with ebikes who crash in the street. In my mind, it's less safe on the street with vehicles that weigh tons and that don't expect riders like EUCs and bikes to be on the street! Btw, I do food deliveries on an ebike in Manhattan as a full time job, so I know what I'm talking about. People say respect the beep, but ya'll need to respect the car lane just as much! If you ride in a car lane then you're automatically taking a larger danger due to the speed involved and because cars don't expect you in the car lane with them. Cars are the king of the road, so treat them that way or you'll end up regretting it eventually. Something about the EUC community that thinks they are supposed to not ride in bike lanes and think the roads with cars are safer... I don't really get that.

You ride a 16X, you can barely go over the speed limit riding the tiltback, of course you are going to think its unsafe on the road, and for good reason.  I've been riding EUC almost 4 years in NYC and Long Island on the streets and had no such issues.  Situational awareness, defensive riding, and knowing your road conditions are all elements in riding safely.  I'm not going to go 40 mph in rush hour traffic near the Midtown tunnel going down 2nd Ave, but I have no qualms doing it going down 5th Ave where the road is in much better shape. 

I've witnessed plenty of bike lane crashes from delivery boys bailing on their bike dodging some pedestrian on their phone, a truck unloading, a car trying to make a left turn and not seeing you in their blind spot, you name it, all at 10-15 mph.  I don't know about you, but splitting the middle lanes is a hell of a lot safer than dodging the obstacle course that is a Manhattan bike lane. 

Your argument's fatal flaw is that everyone perceives situational hazards as you do, which is absolutely not true.  

You are right about one thing though; if a car is out to get you, you don't fight that battle.  However, it isn't nearly as common as you think.  

Edited February 1, 2022 by Ben Kim

[Ben Kim]

I love how all these armchair riders from everywhere else in the world who have never ridden an EUC in NYC have the most to say.  I invite you all to come spend a few days riding here before forming an opinion.  Then again, if I didn't live in NYC I wouldn't be riding an EUC for transport either.  

[Paul A]

As evidenced by members' comments in another previous thread, riders from elsewhere in the world are a little surprised at the illegal and reckless behaviour of NY riders, which endanger members of the public, such as in videos of Alleycat races.

[Funky]

Then again NYC is like ZOO xD Everyone for him self. Being "armchair" rider my self, i think you guys are crazy.   But that's because i live in low pop city, where there are almost no cars, people around.. And i know that.

Edited February 1, 2022 by Funky

[BKW]

3 hours ago, Ben Kim said:

Your argument's fatal flaw is that everyone perceives situational hazards as you do, which is absolutely not true. 

It seems pretty obvious a lot of EUC riders don't agree with me, which is fine.

I can't really speak about EUCs that go faster than my 16x, as this is my first wheel, but I see where you are coming from. A motorcycle can be just as dangerous if you aren't aware of your surroundings and not riding intelligently.

Edited February 1, 2022 by bkw

[xiiijojjo]

@bkw I lived in Denmark a country famous for its many bike lanes and preferred them over roads for a while in the beginning (having a 40kmph cutout top speed EUC the  Gotway Msuper v3). I was going 30-35kmph most the time depending on battery charge. 

90% of Copenhagen where i lived had bike lanes but not american style narrow lanes. No these were as wide as a car lane. AND there was one on either side of the road in most cases. 

 

 

Well what started happening was cars turning right and crashing in to me landing me in the hospital a couple times. I understand now that when they looked in the mirror they probably assumed i was either a pedestrian, stationary or slower moving. Cars don't expect 20+kmph traffic from the bicycle lane you know. So that was my fault for not having considered how i must be perceived from within a car. 

In any case this created an obsession in me with being very vigilant to my left side when passing a turn/road on my right hand side, i would only pass if i was absolutely certain the driver had stopped and seen me in the rear view, or i'd simply slow down and wait for them to turn before passing.
This was alpha omega to driving 20+ kmph in bicycle lanes and being safe about it. Passing other vehicles on Danish bicycle lanes was also a LOT safer than other types of bicycle lanes i've seen as there is a culture that you stick to the right side so people can pass on your left.

One thing that almost caused a few high speed crashes (when i got the 50kmph tesla, going 40-45 depending on battery charge) was me reacting to other bicycle riders suddenly without signaling, and in one quick motion, moving to the left side of the lane  presumably to turn left in a bit. One time, because of the speed i was going, i had to swerve to the left, over the bicycle lane curb and down onto the road to avoid hitting her.

Man just assume that people in trafic are either trying to kill you or trying to get you to kill them and you'll mostly be fine. 

 

Since getting a 70+kmph wheel i decided it was time to armor up and start riding on roads. Only had minor crashes since then.

 

Edited February 1, 2022 by xiiijojjo

[mike_bike_kite]

6 hours ago, Ben Kim said:

I love how all these armchair riders from everywhere else in the world who have never ridden an EUC in NYC have the most to say.  I invite you all to come spend a few days riding here before forming an opinion.  Then again, if I didn't live in NYC I wouldn't be riding an EUC for transport either.  

Ben, as an NY rider, what is your opinion of the riding in the original video? Would you say the rider was to blame and, if not, exactly why not?

PS I have never ridden EUC's in NY but I have ridden motorbikes all over the US including NY.

[conecones]

This is common sense but riding at a certain speeds or choosing between bike vs car lane isn't the underlying risk factor. The risk factor is the difference in speed between rider and other users of that lane. This is completely within the control of the rider.

A rider with the fastest reaction and the best handling skills is still going to eat it if they blow past cyclists in the bike lane going 40mph. The same thing will happen he/she lane splits on the road blowing past cars stopped at a light. That one cyclist or car that makes a random swerve is much easier to avoid if the rider matches their speed to begin with, and passes them slowly. Unfortunately as most group rides will put on display, many EUC riders like to show off and one of the favourite ways is to blow past cyclists/pedestrians/cars in an attempt to feel cool or something to that affect.  

What really baffles me in some of these videos, is the reaction of absolute surprise (often followed by anger) from the rider taking the video that nearly collided with another person/cyclist/car because they were trying to fly past them as fast as possible . Like, I get it buddy, the car made an illegal turn, but is this the first time you've been outside? Do you not understand basic physics?

[xiiijojjo]

22 hours ago, conecones said:

What really baffles me in some of these videos, is the reaction of absolute surprise (often followed by anger) from the rider taking the video that nearly collided with another person/cyclist/car because they were trying to fly past them as fast as possible . 

Many people today live with this twisted sense of reality where they have convinced themselves that they are the protagonist in the movie that is their life, and everyone else are soul-less back-ground actors or NPCs (like in video games). Protagonists don't do evil and are within their right and naturally so are they. The kinds of people go by many names today: Karens, snowflakes, chooch etc.

[Paul A]

NYC riders in Washington DC.

Ignoring red lights, ignoring double parallel road dividing lines, riding on wrong side of the road, riding on the sidewalk, lane splitting etc.

Seems the justifications for illegal riding necessary for a crowded city like New York...... also apply to other cities that are not crowded.

 

Premiered Dec 6, 2021

NYC Invades Washington DC on Electric Unicycles

 

 

[Ben Kim]

On 2/1/2022 at 5:21 PM, mike_bike_kite said:

Ben, as an NY rider, what is your opinion of the riding in the original video? Would you say the rider was to blame and, if not, exactly why not?

PS I have never ridden EUC's in NY but I have ridden motorbikes all over the US including NY.

He’s only to blame if he actually hits anyone. Otherwise no. 
 

As an NY rider, you would be chastising everyone in the city ranging from delivery e-bikes, gas powered scooters/mopeds, e-scooters, all while dealing with cars that don’t follow the rules of the road and blow red lights. 
 

The only issue I have with the state of riding in NYC is the fact all these unregistered PEVs have no liability, and can walk away Scott free after damaging a car from a crash. The e-moped is far more a hazard than an EUC ever could be since you are dealing with a 300 lb vehicle vs at most, a 80-90 lb EUC. MOST NYC riders tend to prefer lighter wheels like the Nikola and RS. The enthusiasts are a “fringe minority” that ride the giant wheels like Sherman and Monster Pro. 
 

The videos make dodging pedestrians look horrifying to some, but it’s literally every type of portable vehicle in the city that does the same exact thing. Even cars don’t yield to pedestrians in some cases. The only time we SHOULD be extra careful is when you see very young children because they are less predictable than dogs on the street. 
 

as a fellow motorcyclist, I don’t enjoy riding my bikes in the city but the same rules apply; get away from the cars, filter to the front and don’t sit in the middle of the lane where you leave yourself open to getting rear ended, which is also common here. 
 

A link to me riding my scooter in Manhattan if you want to see what we deal with compared to your neck of the woods  

the cliffnotes version: every type of motorist in NYC is an asshole, it’s the Wild West here. 

[Ben Kim]

On 2/1/2022 at 3:48 PM, xiiijojjo said:

@bkw I lived in Denmark a country famous for its many bike lanes and preferred them over roads for a while in the beginning (having a 40kmph cutout top speed EUC the  Gotway Msuper v3). I was going 30-35kmph most the time depending on battery charge. 

90% of Copenhagen where i lived had bike lanes but not american style narrow lanes. No these were as wide as a car lane. AND there was one on either side of the road in most cases. 

 

 

Well what started happening was cars turning right and crashing in to me landing me in the hospital a couple times. I understand now that when they looked in the mirror they probably assumed i was either a pedestrian, stationary or slower moving. Cars don't expect 20+kmph traffic from the bicycle lane you know. So that was my fault for not having considered how i must be perceived from within a car. 

In any case this created an obsession in me with being very vigilant to my left side when passing a turn/road on my right hand side, i would only pass if i was absolutely certain the driver had stopped and seen me in the rear view, or i'd simply slow down and wait for them to turn before passing.
This was alpha omega to driving 20+ kmph in bicycle lanes and being safe about it. Passing other vehicles on Danish bicycle lanes was also a LOT safer than other types of bicycle lanes i've seen as there is a culture that you stick to the right side so people can pass on your left.

One thing that almost caused a few high speed crashes (when i got the 50kmph tesla, going 40-45 depending on battery charge) was me reacting to other bicycle riders suddenly without signaling, and in one quick motion, moving to the left side of the lane  presumably to turn left in a bit. One time, because of the speed i was going, i had to swerve to the left, over the bicycle lane curb and down onto the road to avoid hitting her.

Man just assume that people in trafic are either trying to kill you or trying to get you to kill them and you'll mostly be fine. 

 

Since getting a 70+kmph wheel i decided it was time to armor up and start riding on roads. Only had minor crashes since then.

 

I visited Billund/Esbjerg a few years back, and I think this is a great example of urbanites speaking on behalf of the whole country. There wasn’t a bike lane to be seen out there, but a ton of Maize fields and farms. 

[Ben Kim]

On 2/2/2022 at 4:09 PM, Paul A said:

NYC riders in Washington DC.

Ignoring red lights, ignoring double parallel road dividing lines, riding on wrong side of the road, riding on the sidewalk, lane splitting etc.

Seems the justifications for illegal riding necessary for a crowded city like New York...... also apply to other cities that are not crowded.

 

Premiered Dec 6, 2021

NYC Invades Washington DC on Electric Unicycles

 

 

Have you ever ridden in a group ride setting? Because the golden rule for EUC rides, especially fast ones like on DC roads, is to give yourself and the other riders a ton of space. Theres no cars on the other side of the double lines. What would be worse is a bunch of riders riding single file slowing traffic behind them obeying all the rules of the road. 

PS: you can see that this video was sped up for effect. 

[level9]

47 minutes ago, Ben Kim said:

The only issue I have with the state of riding in NYC is the fact all these unregistered PEVs have no liability, and can walk away Scott free after damaging a car from a crash

That's not accurate. Under basic personal injury laws (as well as the option for civil suits for property damages), PEV riders can still be held 100% liable if they cause the accident. They simply have no insurance shield to protect themselves from potentially catastrophic financial loss. The PEV rider will have to pay out of pocket. If they can't, financial assets will be liquidated and if that doesn't cover it, have their wages garnished for potentially the rest of their lives. At least here in the US.

Simply not having insurance doesn't absolve potential liability for anything. If someone is driving a car without insurance and causes an accident, they can still be held liable.

If a pedestrian jumps out of a blind spot in front of my car on my green light (something I saw all the time in NYC) and I swerve to miss them causing a wreck, the pedestrian can be held liable.

You can't escape liability and the majority of the financial risk rests with the unprotected PEV riders. Something to keep in mind while riding around..

[Paul A]

Think perhaps the golden rule of EUC rides is to obey all road laws and rules.

Other members may also disagree about the notion that group rides are somehow exempt from legal behavior.

 

[Paul A]

Is there an obligation to ride at an appropriate speed to the road conditions/visibility?

A child/animal/object/whatever... could also have been on that blind curve.....

 

 

[Funky]

53 minutes ago, Paul A said:

Is there an obligation to ride at an appropriate speed to the road conditions/visibility?

A child/animal/object/whatever... could also have been on that blind curve.....

 

 

Isn't that guy sitting on "Bike Lane" ?

I wonder what speed he was going. On bike lanes i would go 30-40Km my self..

I would not call that a real "Blind spot" Who would ever thought someone would be sitting there. xD The brick fence is so short you can see almost everything.

Then again things like that happen.