NYC Euc and car accident

[Funky]

9 hours ago, Paul A said:

Should not be using a phone when on or near a road.

Might seem like a minor distraction, but the inattention can be fatal.

 

Ahh, did not notice it was age restricted video...

I don't get how people can be so focused on phone. Even when i'm talking, playing games, i see everything that is going around me.. I don't get it.

Especially, when crossing road. Because back of my mind, i know what is happening and where i am.

[.....]

12 minutes ago, Funky said:

Ahh, did not notice it was age restricted video...

I don't get how people can be so focused on phone. Even when i'm talking, playing games, i see everything that is going around me.. I don't get it.

Especially, when crossing road. Because back of my mind, i know what is happening and where i am.

Everyone on a phone feels they are aware.  Tests kind of prove that most of us arent as good at splitting focus as we think. Its pretty tough to focus on a small device and think about what you see, while also looking at your surrounding environment. I know I can't do it, I'm merely switching between the two, mitigating my performance of both.

[Funky]

Then again, i'm playing mmo. Watching movie, same time surfing internet.. Some times i even cut my nails. 4x Combo Wombo breaker xD

[.....]

2 minutes ago, Funky said:

Then again, i'm playing mmo. Watching movie, same time surfing internet.. Some times i even cut my nails. 4x Combo Wombo breaker xD

and absolutely NONE of those must require your complete attention and quick reaction times. Most of us autopilot our way thru a lot of things daily. I wanna see you get high score on an action cell phone game while blazing thru NYC traffic. Git er done!

Ironically, theres many tales of people driving to their homes and not realizing it, or even ending up in the wrong place. Its kind of scary really, that we auto-pilot like that.

Edited January 22, 2022 by ShanesPlanet

[Paul A]

What can a rider do to mitigate a situation like this?

Lower speed and not keep up with traffic?

 

NYC, Wednesday February 12, 2020, winter time, morning 8.55am, long shadows, sun low in the sky, sun glare not directly into eyes of driver or EUC rider though.

Built up commercial shopping strip, light traffic, shops not open yet,

EUC following car possibly hidden from view until last moments.

Not blind spot of car.

T intersection with traffic light control.

On street parking, EUC rider needs to be in a central lane.

No center solid line divider, but appears to be a yellow/black striped dividing line.

Unsecured full face helmet ejected onto opposite sidewalk.

Another car doing a U-turn from a far side lane, cutting across the path of other lanes, in a built up area, adjacent to an intersection.

 

 

[Funky]

8 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

and absolutely NONE of those must require your complete attention and quick reaction times. Most of us autopilot our way thru a lot of things daily. I wanna see you get high score on an action cell phone game while blazing thru NYC traffic. Git er done!

Ironically, theres many tales of people driving to their homes and not realizing it, or even ending up in the wrong place. Its kind of scary really, that we auto-pilot like that.

Was meant as joke more or less.

Yeah, i know that you mean. We do the same thing over, over it's like we can do that in sleep. 

Hey, in mmo i can get killed also! #yolo

(Sad thing i'm rarely on phone.. No one to call, no friends. Hate games on phone.) That's only + for me. LOLing outside. (inside depressive crying).

[.....]

11 minutes ago, Paul A said:

What can a rider do to mitigate a situation like this?

Lower speed and not keep up with traffic?

 

NYC, Wednesday February 12, 2020, winter time, morning 8.55am, long shadows, sun low in the sky, sun glare not directly into eyes of driver or EUC rider though.

Built up commercial shopping strip, light traffic, shops not open yet,

EUC following car possibly hidden from view until last moments.

Not blind spot of car.

T intersection with traffic light control.

On street parking, EUC rider needs to be in a central lane.

No center solid line divider, but appears to be a yellow/black striped dividing line.

Unsecured full face helmet ejected onto opposite sidewalk.

Another car doing a U-turn from a far side lane, cutting across the path of other lanes, in a built up area, adjacent to an intersection.

 

 

These things happen as its kind of a blind spot and people are lazy about looking before they pull out. Same shit happens when people open car doors or step out into passing cars. Only thing we can do, is try to anticipate things like this, as we cross driveways and pass parked cars. Defensive driving will mitigate but not end this common accident. Euc, bicuycles, buses, cars, pedestrians... its common to them all. Hell, its similar to getting 'doored'. Getting 'doored' is frequent enough we have a term for it.

[Funky]

6 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

These things happen as its kind of a blind spot and people are lazy about looking before they pull out. Same shit happens when people open car doors or step out into passing cars. Only thing we can do, is try to anticipate things like this, as we cross driveways and pass parked cars. Defensive driving will mitigate but not end this common accident. Euc, bicuycles, buses, cars, pedestrians... its common to them all. Hell, its similar to getting 'doored'. Getting 'doored' is frequent enough we have a term for it.

Drive as you are target. Everything out there is to get you. Anything bad can, will happen.

Hey look that car driving in front. (I bet he will try break check my. Or better will suddenly stop.)

Hey that old lady is walking close to rode. (She will try to jump in front of me!)

Hey what a cute dog is running with no leash. (Road kill?)

Kids playing tag (Emm, i wont say anything. )

I'm passing a corner. (I bet there's a monster)

I'm speeding up. (Surely there won't be a broken bottle in middle of road.)

Life. (Ha Ha, I'm in danger)

 

[Planemo]

7 hours ago, Paul A said:

What can a rider do to mitigate a situation like this?

I hate commenting on crashes as it's so easy to act like the hindsight police and holier than thou. But..

I would have seen that SUV reversing (there was a clear view for a long distance) and been on my guard. As soon as I saw it starting to move forwards (4 seconds later) I would have been easing back, dropping a good 10mph. As soon as I saw it starting to pull left (6 seconds) without any suggestion of it seeing me I would have been on the brakes hard and gone with the decision was going to pull out on me. I believe I would have been able to come to a total stop in time. At the very least I would have scrubbed off nearly all my speed.

It appeared the rider did nothing whatsover to avoid this.

There are 8 seconds between the SUV starting to reverse and point of impact. Thats a long time.

From where I am sitting, this was totally avoidable on the basis that the hazard was presented but the rider did nothing to mitigate it. It wasn't until they were virtually on the rear quarter of the SUV that any kind of action was taken.

A few seconds before impact it looks like the rider had his arm out forwards - on the phone or looking at a watch?

And wearing a lid without it done up is the essentially the same as not wearing one.

Like a lot of these scenarios, we don't want to be emergency braking every few seconds due to fear that everything is out to kill us, but when nothing is presented to me by the driver that they have seen me it will be the option I default to. It won't always avoid a collision, but scrubbing off any amount of speed will nearly always reduce the carnage. If it takes a few seconds out of my day to get back up to speed after a braking event that wasn't needed I will take that all day long if it means arriving home instead of ICU. I'm never in a rush to get anywhere when I'm on my wheel anyway. And even if I was, riding defensively adds so little time in the grand scheme of things that I would simply leave home 10 minutes earlier.

[Paul A]

Dec 26, 2021

 

 

[level9]

Reminds me of all of the NYC bike messenger videos I used to watch whenever I wanted a good adrenaline rush. New York drivers will always be distinctively New York and don't really reflect at all on the EUC community or EUC safety IMO. NYC is the center of its own universe.

I remember the first time I moved to NYC I quickly realized that everything is out to kill me. Literally. Everything. That's while driving a car. NYC redefines defensive driving.
And there are no traffic rules. They're more like.. strong suggestions. In a place that speaks 600+ different languages a fair amount of people have never even seen a traffic control device before so perhaps this is not surprising.

So for another good adrenaline rush, here's a bike messenger in NYC that doesn't even have any brakes on his fixed speed track bike... I mean who wants brakes? NYC is about GO !!! 

 

 

[Paul A]

Thanks for the video Level9.

Very interesting, absolutely astounding.

[Paul A]

https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2021/01/22/post-mortem-cyclist-victims-killed-in-2020-were-low-income-essential-workers/

• By Julianne Cuba
• Jan 22, 2021

POST-MORTEM: Cyclist Victims Killed In 2020 Were Low-Income, Essential Workers

Last year marked the second deadliest for traffic violence during Mayor de Blasio’s seven years in office, when at least 243 people were killed on the streets of New York City, including 26 cyclists — many of whom were the essential workers that kept the rest of New York healthy, safe, and fed throughout the COVID-19 crisis.

........more than half of the 26 cyclists killed last year died on streets where the median income falls below the citywide average.

Hilario wants to use his brother’s death to help other delivery workers, and to fight for street safety for all — he is organizing a vigil, four months after his brother’s death without any justice, on Jan. 23 at the intersection where he was killed.

______________________

243 deaths in a year -  about 5 deaths per week.

No information provided on the number of serious injuries/hospitalizations etc.

Pedestrians presumably the majority of victims.

[Aztek]

9 hours ago, level9 said:

Reminds me of all of the NYC bike messenger videos I used to watch whenever I wanted a good adrenaline rush. New York drivers will always be distinctively New York and don't really reflect at all on the EUC community or EUC safety IMO. NYC is the center of its own universe.

I remember the first time I moved to NYC I quickly realized that everything is out to kill me. Literally. Everything. That's while driving a car. NYC redefines defensive driving.
And there are no traffic rules. They're more like.. strong suggestions. In a place that speaks 600+ different languages a fair amount of people have never even seen a traffic control device before so perhaps this is not surprising.

So for another good adrenaline rush, here's a bike messenger in NYC that doesn't even have any brakes on his fixed speed track bike... I mean who wants brakes? NYC is about GO !!! 

 

 

And no plans for banning bikes, I guess?

Better to restrict cars than other city transport. This seems more civilised.

Edited January 24, 2022 by Aztek

[Skeptikos]

On 1/20/2022 at 6:53 PM, Mayhem said:

Suggestion: if you or anyone else wants to highlight poor rider etiquette then it should be done in a constructive manner. 
- example A - doing a reaction video to said poor etiquette video where you break down what you believe the mistakes are in said video and how you would have reacted in said situation and showing another video where a better example is present. 

B- doing an analytical post referring to time stamps of alleged bad etiquette video where you present a different pov of how the rider should have approached said situation.

 

I like this idea. I'd subscribe to that channel.

 

Anyway, for the people talking about defensive riding, I've found that motor scooter riding tips can apply pretty well to EUCs too. Like this guy's stuff:

 

[Paul A]

Great defensive riding video.  Applicable to cars as well.

Unfortunately, the messenger bicycle couriers and alley cat racers flagrantly disregard even red light traffic signals, pedestrian crossings, double line road dividers, riding on wrong side of the road, riding on sidewalks, illegal lane splitting.......no training required to obey traffic rules and laws.

[Mayhem]

On 1/23/2022 at 5:52 PM, level9 said:

Reminds me of all of the NYC bike messenger videos

Funny how people are far less upset and fascinated about the SAME EXACT style of riding they don’t want to see in a euc video. Smh. 
———————————————————

So what has changed that people like the cycling video and not the euc video? genuinely curious.

Both videos highlight the same style of riding. Lane splitting, weaving, running red lights. Hell cyclist even host the same exact illegal street race people got all bent out of shape over. It’s a style of riding in nyc. Does that mean everyone here rides like this absolutely not but goes to show you that other riding genres adopt this same style of riding and post it on YouTube for likes. 
 

 

Edited January 25, 2022 by Mayhem

[Mayhem]

On 1/24/2022 at 1:48 AM, Aztek said:

And no plans for banning bikes, I guess?

Nope none what so ever and this style of riding has been around loooonnggg before euc was even a thought. Funny thing to note as well is cycling is highly encouraged in nyc lol.

Edited January 25, 2022 by Mayhem

[alcatraz]

Great video Skeptikos. Nothing in it is about laws. It's all about maximizing your safety.

If this was taught more and less of "how many points off your license for this violation" BS, then we'd have a less problems out there.

There should be a version for kids and just basic cycling. Start them early I say. 

Edited January 26, 2022 by alcatraz

[Paul A]

Lisa Banes was killed by a hit and run scooter rider, who allegedly ran a red light on Amsterdam Avenue, on June 4, 2021.

Two hundred and forty three people were killed on the streets of New York in 2020.

 

Illegal behaviour of running red lights, riding on the wrong side, lane splitting, weaving, riding on sidewalks, endangering people, killing people........

It is difficult to believe that it should be accepted and normalized because it's a style of riding in NY.

It is difficult to believe that it should be accepted and normalized because this style of riding has been around for a long time.

 

[Paul A]

https://www.westsiderag.com/2021/09/30/hit-and-run-e-scooter-driver-who-allegedly-killed-actress-lisa-banes-is-charged-with-reckless-manslaughter-and-more

Posted on September 30, 2021 at 10:28 am by West Side Rag

E-Scooter Driver Who Allegedly Killed Actress Lisa Banes Is Charged With ‘Reckless Manslaughter’ and More

Charges were upgraded Monday against Brian Boyd, the electric scooter driver who allegedly ran a red light on Amsterdam Avenue on June 4th, striking actress Lisa Banes in the West 64th Street crosswalk, then fled. Banes suffered a traumatic brain injury and died 10 days later.

 

He was initially charged with leaving the scene of an accident and failure to yield to a pedestrian, but a Manhattan Supreme Court judge upped the charges, indicting Boyd for reckless manslaughter, criminally negligent homicide, failure to exercise due care and failure to yield. Those charges carry a minimum penalty of one to three years, and a maximum of 15 years. Boyd pleaded not guilty.

 

[Mono]

17 hours ago, Mayhem said:

Funny how people are far less upset and fascinated about the SAME EXACT style of riding they don’t want to see in a euc video. Smh. 
———————————————————

So what has changed that people like the cycling video and not the euc video? genuinely curious.

Both videos highlight the same style of riding. Lane splitting, weaving, running red lights. Hell cyclist even host the same exact illegal street race people got all bent out of shape over. It’s a style of riding in nyc. Does that mean everyone here rides like this absolutely not but goes to show you that other riding genres adopt this same style of riding and post it on YouTube for likes. 

Trying to satisfy your genuine curiosity: the reason for the more likes is the greater number of views.

OP vid: 34 likes with 711 views = 4.7%

Ally Cat vid: 26 likes with 370 views = 7.0%

Bike messenger fluid vid: 11K likes with 701K views = 1.6%

The bike messenger vid is considerably less liked (not more liked), I suspect mostly because it was viewed by a broader, less biased audience.

Edited January 26, 2022 by Mono

[Mayhem]

8 hours ago, Mono said:

The bike messenger vid is considerably less liked (not more liked), I suspect mostly because it was viewed by a broader, less biased audience.

Who said anything about literal likes on yt as if that’s ever an accurate gauge of yt content. I was talking about people not crying bloody murder over it as they did with the same exact content. The reactions of both videos were different by the same posters here.

 

22 hours ago, Paul A said:

It is difficult to believe that it should be accepted and normalized because it's a style of riding in NY.

It is difficult to believe that it should be accepted and normalized because this style of riding has been around for a long time.

And yet it is. Regardless of what side of the line your on. It’s a common practice which like it or not isn’t going anywhere. 

Edited January 27, 2022 by Mayhem

[Paul A]

Perhaps refer to the thread for why members do not like the illegal/reckless/irresponsible behaviour of some NYC riders.

 

 

The incident of the NYC rider 'Turbo':

despite having ample time and opportunity to stop

chose to flagrantly disregard the red light at a pedestrian crossing

speeding through the pedestrian crossing at high speed

a young girl child was already in the middle of the road, crossing

the clearly terrified face of a young girl

a young girl that would have been seriously injured or killed had she not reacted quickly enough to get out of the way

because 'Turbo' wanted to win an Alley Cat Race....

 

The incident was also captured by the NYC rider 'Law', following 'Turbo' through the pedestrian crossing.

Video copied to start at the time mark 11.40, showing the incident.

Set highest HD 1080p resolution.

Set slower playback speed of 0.25 and pause to see the terror on the little girl's and her mother's face.

The rest of the video is just as disturbing.

 

Edited January 27, 2022 by Paul A

[Mono]

19 hours ago, Mayhem said:

Who said anything about literal likes on yt as if that’s ever an accurate gauge of yt content. I was talking about people not crying bloody murder over it as they did with the same exact content since the reception of both videos were different by the same posters here.

sorry, I misunderstood how you had evaluated that people liked the messenger vid.

With the new understanding an update on satisfying your genuine curiosity: EUC riders don't cry bloody murder over cycling vids because they don't really care about cycling and in particular the reputation of cycling, most of them I guess.

Edited January 27, 2022 by Mono