Wireless Charging Dicussion

[Inmotion Global]

Hi there,

We are looking at the possibility of bringing in the Wireless Charging Technology on EUC. Is it necessary or just simply useless? Please share with us what you think. 

 

INMOTION Team

Liam

[houseofjob]

Just now, Inmotion Global said:

Hi there,

We are looking at the possibility of bringing in the Wireless Charging Technology on EUC. Is it necessary or just simply useless? Please share with us what you think. 

Wireless charge the wheel itself? or wireless charging for phones?

[GoGeorgeGo]

I really like the idea of having a stand you can just seat your wheel in to charge without plugging anything in. Not needing to bend over or expose an electrical connection. Could have huge benefits in terms of water proofing also.

My concerns would be with charge time and execution though. If its just a contact point on the stand then it wont help much with waterproofing i dont think. And if its via air charging then how long will it take to go from 0 to 100%? 

[Inmotion Global]

2 hours ago, houseofjob said:

Wireless charge the wheel itself? or wireless charging for phones?

on the wheel itself

[Tawpie]

Seems like it would be very very slow? If you can’t do a full charge in 14 hours, it won’t be very useful at all.

[.....]

I prefer solid connections for high power devices and circuits... I do like the ease and lack of wires, but its not enough to sway my opinion. Waterproofing a connection point, isnt rocket science nowadays. I'd rather see less innovation and more attention to details of current tech. Waterproofing and quality of metals and plastics is big concern. Seems everyone is trying new things while neglecting these basics a little. Until battery or motor tech progresses, I'd focus more on the cake than the icing...

Thank you for asking. I HAVE been eyeballing inmotion quite a bit as of late...  Make me a 16X killer with more polish, waterproofing and built in monitoring, with good range and torque... I'm definitely game. Better hurry tho...

Can we PLEASE get a rim that fits a standard size of motorcycle tire? Enough width and proper rim specs would be freaking amazing!

Edited April 7, 2021 by ShanesPlanet

[Arbolest]

1 hour ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

I really like the idea of having a stand you can just seat your wheel in to charge without plugging anything in. Not needing to bend over or expose an electrical connection. Could have huge benefits in terms of water proofing also.

My concerns would be with charge time and execution though. If its just a contact point on the stand then it wont help much with waterproofing i dont think. And if its via air charging then how long will it take to go from 0 to 100%? 

Honestly, I think external contacts are a much more practical idea than a truly wireless setup. You can charge at nearly the same currents as we are used to today, they require no special added technology/complications, and they would allow us to use the chargers we already own so we wouldn't have to purchase anything other than the dock.

I've been using home-built charging docks on my wheels for the last 3 years and I've never had an issue with waterproofing (I've commuted countless times in heavy rain ). I just put a couple diodes inline with the external charging contacts (in the wheel) to prevent backflow from the battery. If I use a multi-meter on the contacts with a fully charged battery I show less than .7 volts, so even if I directly short them with a wire it's not dangerous. 

For me the pros are fantastic and the cons are almost nonexistent, so I say bring it on! I like having direct electrical contacts on the outside of the wheel for high-currents, but if people are more interested in a version without contacts that charges more slowly, then as long as it doesn't cost too much I don't see anything but positives!

Edited April 7, 2021 by Arbolest

[Denny Paul]

I don’t think wireless charging will make me want to buy one wheel over another.

But you know what will? A lower purchase price. 

[Rawnei]

Would just add unnecessary weight and complexity for something pretty gimmicky.

[Tasku]

Wireless charging could help making better waterproofing.
But downside would likely be longer charging times.

If you could make best of both worlds then maybe, yes.

[z3n]

On 4/7/2021 at 8:15 AM, Inmotion Global said:

Hi there,

We are looking at the possibility of bringing in the Wireless Charging Technology on EUC. Is it necessary or just simply useless? Please share with us what you think. 

 

INMOTION Team

Liam

IMHO it is all about the downtime. I would rather have a faster wired charging on EUC. Think of nowadays smartphones ad, plug it for 5 minutes for 2 or even 4 hours talk time. We should have that kind of efficiency on EUC, or at least moving toward that goal.

[Zopper]

Rather than slow & inefficient wireless charging, how about some variation on magnetic connectors? Like MagSafe on MacBooks. It's quick and easy to attach and it doesn't break when the wheel falls.

[ComplacentGoat]

I'd rather see something like built-in fast charging from a standard c13 plug. One could pick up a cable from any major store and it would make my backpack lighter.

[Zopper]

9 hours ago, ComplacentGoat said:

I'd rather see something like built-in fast charging from a standard c13 plug. One could pick up a cable from any major store and it would make my backpack lighter.

That would mean integrated power supply - another half a kg more in the wheel and bye bye fast charging - you are stuck with factory default.

Edited April 15, 2021 by Zopper

[RockyTop]

It sounds cool but I agree, it makes the wheel heavier and slower to charge. I very much respect InMotion for their programs that reach out to people both on forums and in the real world.  I have not purchased InMotion wheels in the past because of limited power and capabilities. I am looking for a more robust platform both physically and electrically. 

[meepmeepmayer]

I would be very impressed by a technical implementation of wirelessly charging a wheel.

But I think it's useless. What is the difference between laying your wheel in exactly the right spot for wireless charging, or just plugging a charger in? What benefit would it bring?

How would the wireless charger look? How much would it weigh?

If you want waterproofing, just hide a regular charge port behind a really waterproof plug (a screw cap with some gaskets in the middle, instead of the cap being only a rubber flap).

-

A related idea: a wheel stand with built in charging, via contacts on both sides of the wheel that activate only when in the stand. So you can quickly roll your wheel in and it charges automatically.

But you would still need a charge port and normal charger for charging underways. Nobody is going to carry a stand while riding.

Maybe as an extra accessory for people to buy for their homes.

-

Great you're asking though

[Zopper]

8 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

If you want waterproofing, just hide a regular charge port behind a really waterproof plug (a screw cap with some gaskets in the middle, instead of the cap being only a rubber flap).

Or maybe keep it just behind a rubber flap to keep dirt and mud outside, but make the port itself waterproof non-reactive contacts (gold comes to mind), designed so that it can't get stuffed with dirt (flat port, hold by magnets - see MagSafe), electronic that will detect a bad connection or short circuit due to water and/or dirt (and tells you "wipe the port" - after all, wireless charging would mean even more complex electronics), that sort of things. This might be sufficient to our cases.

[RockyTop]

32 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

A related idea: a wheel stand with built in charging, via contacts on both sides of the wheel that activate only when in the stand. So you can quickly roll your wheel in and it charges automatically.

This makes more sense than wireless charging. And add a green light on  top of the wheel that clearly indicates that the wheel is docked and charging. The actual charger could be removable to use on the go. 

[Arbolest]

42 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

A related idea: a wheel stand with built in charging, via contacts on both sides of the wheel that activate only when in the stand. So you can quickly roll your wheel in and it charges automatically.

I can attest to the effectiveness of this! It's what I've been using on my charging stands for a few years now and it takes very little in the way of extra electronics to implement safely!!  

 

42 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

But you would still need a charge port and normal charger for charging underways. Nobody is going to carry a stand while riding.

Not a problem at all. Almost all of the chargers available now can be hooked up to any given wheel in parallel, so there's no reason that a wheel with charging contacts for use in a dock couldn't/shouldn't also have a charge port(s) for use with a standard (high current) charger. Again, I can attest to the effectiveness of this kind of setup.  

 

42 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said:

Maybe as an extra accessory for people to buy for their homes.

I think this is definitely how it should be done/marketed. People who want it can have it, and people who don't want it won't have to pay for it.  

 

6 minutes ago, RockyTop said:

This makes more sense than wireless charging. And add a green light on  top of the wheel that clearly indicates that the wheel is docked and charging. The actual charger could be removable to use on the go. 

Indeed. This is optimal in my view. My docks just use the same power port as my wheels so I can plug in whatever charger I want to use with it at the time, and I can take it with me or swap it out whenever necessary. It's a great system.   

[meepmeepmayer]

Yep, just make it so you can plug the charger directly into the wheel, or plug the charger into the stand and roll the wheel into the stand to charge. Then the stand would be an optional, cheap (all passive, no/few electronics needed) accessory.

Needs charge port + the extra stand contacts in the wheel.

No idea how complicated it is to disable the charging contacts unless the wheel is in the stand.

Since this is about wireless charging, you could even make the stand wireless. "Premium Wireless Charging Stand". Don't know if that extra complexity would be worth it.

[GPSchile]

I agree with most that has been said. Wireless charging would be one more feature, great for waterproofing etc but only if it is not too slow compared with a cable. It depends also on the size of the EUC. It is is a small size vehicle, very portable (inside a backpack) it certainly can work fast enough. For a bigger V11/V12, perhaps the wireless system can be too slow. However, we do not know the specifications on the proposed system and it may do the trick. Sure it would be nice and one more innovation of Inmotion, but on the same field I see other ideas that may be as interesting. Like the charging stand without cables to the EUC, a magnetic charger plug against flat pins that are stronger in waterproofing than classic female plugs (like computers used by divers). However, for me the big issue about this field of charging an EUC, would be a smart charger (amps and voltage adjustable) that could be used both with AC at home/office as well as with 12 VCD (with an internal booster) so it can be connected to cars, trailers, boats etc. This way, the EUC would be functional and suitable for all sites including remote locations.
I have been working on such idea for 84V EUC, just as braintorm, and the booster I have found do not seem too big to be implemented. For a 100V perhaps more hardware is needed since the delta is bigger. But a charger from 12 VCD would free and open the use of EUC even more, and way better than inefficient multiple conversions when using regular inverters. 

[GPSchile]

Also on the same field, it would be nice that on the app we could set the final % or voltage of the charging process...  kind of what Sebastian from EUC World has been implementing with a Wifi Switch, but integrated on the Inmotion app. 

[Zopper]

8 hours ago, GPSchile said:

Also on the same field, it would be nice that on the app we could set the final % or voltage of the charging process...  kind of what Sebastian from EUC World has been implementing with a Wifi Switch, but integrated on the Inmotion app. 

This requires continuous cell balancing. Which I would appreciate even more than any charging method enhancements, because failure of some cells in the pack is #1 cause of battery issues in EUCs, far before any aging degradation.

[Duke EUCem]

On 4/6/2021 at 6:15 PM, Inmotion Global said:

Hi there,

We are looking at the possibility of bringing in the Wireless Charging Technology on EUC. Is it necessary or just simply useless? Please share with us what you think. 

 

INMOTION Team

Liam

 

Euc Battery/Wireless Charging Design Suggestions and Thoughts

I think wireless charging would be good for charging on the go as a portable battery to get more range with perhaps some sort of attachable charging pack that you can store implementable on inmotion devices.

Similar to replaceable batteries on power tools, just put it in on top maybe give it a minute or two to gain some stable charge and then your on your way. You can make a specific slot so that you can sell portable batteries without safety concerns and shut out possible dangerous 3rd party battery packs that may release. A type of seat height adjustment latch for bikes may help as well to reinforce the battery pack as well as some well sealed casing for the battery for environmental conditions that can just be a snug fit metal box with a hole in the bottom with screws on 4 corners securing the top and bottom half for battery removal or charging. 

I don't see much of a need for wireless charging if you were to charge under normal circumstances say when your not riding and at your home.

I think king song may be working on some sort of modular battery packs but why tear apart your whole wheel when you can just add officially licensed battery packs on top of the EUC without any concerns of overpowering the EUC, cutouts, or having fires due to an incorrect change.

Likewise the modular battery could possibly be attached to the EUC and build up charge utilizing the regenerative braking system in EUCs when the EUC is at a higher amount of charge to charge the battery pack which can then after full charge is reached warn the rider with a different light sequence or color on the battery pack. The rider can detach the battery and put it their backpack. Charge of the modular/replaceable battery can be tracked via eucworld or the inmotion app when either is connected to the wheel and the replaceable battery is attached. Settings for the app could also be in place so the rider can choose when the battery will utilize the regenerative braking system to draw energy from the EUC or give power to the EUC once the EUC reaches a certain designated battery level.

This can also help with issues that may result in over charging harming the battery life of EUCs while giving both the rider more miles to cover and a better riding experience at higher speeds for a longer time while offering EUC companies further utilization of the resources they have to deliver an incomparable riding experience, set them apart form the pack, and make a lot of patent licensed and regularly licensed moolah that most if not all riders would eventually want to use as an add on to deliver more battery life, charging capabilities, and overall increase the adaptability of the EUC in day to day life.

With this 200 miles per charge is not as far off as it may seem using traditional methods.

PM if you want more info on specifics and clarification or questions on ideas of practical implementation free of charge. @Inmotion Global

[NUKA COLA]

Wireless charging is super inefficient in charging time and electricity consumption. It's ok for a tiny cellphone battery. Not something I would look for in an EUC.