Kingsong S20/S22 (Confirmed)

[Tawpie]

@Jack ex-KS I wanted to give you a shout out… your baby is looking great. Sure, there is always room for improvement, but so far I haven't seen or heard anything that makes me worry that my pre-order was too hasty or that it might have been a mistake. Kudos, and thank you for your hard work guiding what looks to be a marvelously fun product.

[GoGeorgeGo]

25 minutes ago, Rolzi said:

 

Anyone know how heavy approximately Hsiang is? He doesnt seem to get much action out of the suspension in the clips he showed in this video. He seems to like it based on his feedback, just suprised how little it seems to move in the video

[Paul A]

Speedy and Hsiang's reviews are very positive.

Speedy's main concern was the rear of the seat not being usable, might be due to his tall height.

Hsiang seemed to be fine riding seated.

The red boomerang shaped plastic might need to be removed to enable better fitment of the pads.

Hope the first adopters won't discover any hidden major problems in real world riding.

S20 is looking very good.

[Paradox]

2 minutes ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

Anyone know how heavy approximately Hsiang is? He doesnt seem to get much action out of the suspension in the clips he showed in this video. He seems to like it based on his feedback, just suprised how little it seems to move in the video

I too watched closely and saw no movement compared to other videos where you see the shock moving quite a bit.

[Tawpie]

13 minutes ago, Paradox said:

I too watched closely and saw no movement compared to other videos where you see the shock moving quite a bit.

There's some movement at .25 speed but not much, he must have it setup pretty stiffly. 🤞

[.....]

48 minutes ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

Anyone know how heavy approximately Hsiang is? He doesnt seem to get much action out of the suspension in the clips he showed in this video. He seems to like it based on his feedback, just suprised how little it seems to move in the video

I'll make an approximate guess.... He looks like a stumpy 155lbs to me.

[lazybones99]

3 Quesitons:

1) Is it possible to lock out the suspension on the S20?

2) I'm trying to wrap my head around the stated range of 125 miles for this 2,200 WH wheel compared with the similar 144 mile range on the 3,400 WH Sherman Max. How is this possible?

3) I just watched Hsiang's review on Youtube and it sounds like the acceleration on this is fast but subdued. I'm sure it's good enough for me  but what do we think the chances of Kingsong improving the acceleration with a firmware update?

 

[5Cauac]

1 hour ago, Tawpie said:

There's some movement at .25 speed but not much, he must have it setup pretty stiffly. 🤞

Let's not forget that the spring may have not yet been broken in yet. It does get much softer once broken in.

[Lex Smith]

38 minutes ago, 5Cauac said:

Let's not forget that the spring may have not yet been broken in yet. It does get much softer once broken in.

Huh?  I have never heard of a spring made from spring steel breaking in - sure it will soften up over years of use but not break in as it were.  Maybe that's special China tech . . . 

[Tawpie]

57 minutes ago, lazybones99 said:

1) Is it possible to lock out the suspension on the S20?

Reportedly, no. But you can set it to max stiff compression and it won't move much and you can preload the spring with a special tool (not very special really, but it's specific for the job) if you need more. Preloading will take some of the action out of the shock

57 minutes ago, lazybones99 said:

2) I'm trying to wrap my head around the stated range of 125 miles for this 2,200 WH wheel compared with the similar 144 mile range on the 3,400 WH Sherman Max. How is this possible?

It's a marketing number. Read it as "up to 200 kms" of range or "maximum range under very specific conditions that you won't want to replicate in real life", don't expect more than that. Do expect considerably less, although I'd wager that if I could last that long I could ride it at 10 mph and get 200 km out of it.

Edited February 18, 2022 by Tawpie

[Mango]

On 2/5/2022 at 11:11 PM, fbhb said:

I thought the story about Kuji cutting out was in reference to the Commander and definitely Not the S20 IIRC?

 

On 2/7/2022 at 1:40 AM, supercurio said:

Could you link or mention the source please? 🙏

At 14:15, Wrongway mentions the S20 Kuji cutout, as well as from two other riders.

It’s a strange video by Wrongway since EUC manufacturers like KS and Inmotion’s manual are very pro-conservative in how a rider should ride eg. not leaning forward when accelerating, but everyone on social media does it.

[supercurio]

Well I am concerned about the S20 alarms again 😔

Cut-out at 65km/h during acceleration, no beeps apparently.
That's not good enough. Beep first, cut-out later if pressure continues beyond the wheel capabilities.

Cut-out sometimes without beeps reminds me of the 16X which sometimes beeps before pedals dip, sometimes at the same time, sometimes.. after (for real).

 

Edit: OK got to the source and it's a bit more subtle and complicated than described in this video. Still, alarms might not be good/early enough for leans at 50kph+, or very strong lean at any speed.

at 14:35 (timestamp embedded in link)

 

Edited February 18, 2022 by supercurio

[Funky]

New video.

 

Edited February 18, 2022 by Funky

[Tawpie]

Let the buyer beware!

iirc Kuji's cutout was on what was likely the very first wheel to leave KS's internal clutches back in December. I'd put that into the category of: good thing it was discovered then, hopefully they fixed it. KS did announce a delay in production and pointed to their feedback from Kuji as a reason, although they used the word 'ergonomics' which could be taken to mean many things.

I don't ride at 65 kph and doubt I will very often but it's good to remember that what we already know about KS wheels may not have changed: if you're near top speed, don't try to punch it. I don't know what happens if you're at top speed on any other wheel and punch it, but if you really are at its limit you're going to end up on the pavement. "If you're not quite over the line yet, lean a little more" is ill advised on a KS wheel.

He refers to the eevee's incident as "we know what happened there", but if he's referring to Chance's fall, I don't believe that was a cutout in the classical sense. I think it was a muffed drop into soft soil that the wheel couldn't climb out of, but wouldn't call it a safety problem.

At any rate, gear up.

Edited February 18, 2022 by Tawpie

[UniVehje]

2 hours ago, lazybones99 said:

2) I'm trying to wrap my head around the stated range of 125 miles for this 2,200 WH wheel compared with the similar 144 mile range on the 3,400 WH Sherman Max. How is this possible?

Apart from possibly different test settings, KS also let’s you drain the battery lower. 3.0V per cell vs. 3.4V per cell on Sherman (I think). And KS is known for getting best mileage per cell. I did just over 100 kilometers (62.5 miles) on my 18XL with 1554Wh battery. (In test setting the claim was 120 km). I’m expecting gettin up to 140 km (90 miles) of real world range from S20 (80 kg with backpack and 30 km/h leisurely). 

[Funky]

31 minutes ago, UniVehje said:

Apart from possibly different test settings, KS also let’s you drain the battery lower. 3.0V per cell vs. 3.4V per cell on Sherman (I think). And KS is known for getting best mileage per cell. I did just over 100 kilometers (62.5 miles) on my 18XL with 1554Wh battery. (In test setting the claim was 120 km). I’m expecting gettin up to 140 km (90 miles) of real world range from S20 (80 kg with backpack and 30 km/h leisurely). 

I saw the UK review, he said he got around 30 miles of range on 20S. But i don't know how he did that test.. Seems very low mileage.

Also i don't like how the "spring" part is so exposed.. Dropping it backwards will destroy it fast.

Edited February 18, 2022 by Funky

[supercurio]

To my understanding, on the French S20 cut-out, multiple speed alarms were activated. You have something like that in settings:

• 1st speed alarm
• 2nd speed alarm
• Max speed alarm
• Max speed tilt-back

On Kingsong wheels, you have all four parameters which can be set.

As a result, a rider can hear the same sound indicating:

1. "Riding beyond 20 km/h"
2. "Riding beyond 30 km/h"
3. "Stop accelerating now or you're gonna cut out"

Only how frequent is beeping indicate either a basic information or requires immediate action with the shortest reaction humanly possible.

With how fast the S20 goes, it's probably time to remove this anti-feature altogether, and keep only the "Max speed alarm" setting.

Edited February 18, 2022 by supercurio

[Funky]

22 minutes ago, supercurio said:

To my understanding, on the French S20 cut-out, multiple speed alarms were activated. You have something like that in settings:

• 1st speed alarm
• 2nd speed alarm
• Max speed alarm
• Max speed tilt-back

On Kingsong wheels, you have all four parameters which can be set.

As a result, a rider can hear the same sound indicating:

1. "Riding beyond 20 km/h"
2. "Riding beyond 30 km/h"
3. "Stop accelerating now or you're gonna cut out"

Only how frequent is beeping indicate either a basic information or requires immediate action with the shortest reaction humanly possible.

With how fast the S20 goes, it's probably time to remove this anti-feature altogether, and keep only the "Max speed alarm" setting.

On my 18xl, i only hear 3rd alarm.. Because i have enabled "voices". If i disable "voices" i hear beeps at 1,2,3... 

For my surprise. I thought for a while, that i was riding around 30kph speeds.. But no, i was riding 40kph, because i did not know, that 1/2 alarm is ignored when "voices" are enabled.

When "voices" are disabled, i can hear slow small beeps at first alarm, at second alarm it beeps faster/louder, at 3rd alarm it beeps crazy.

At 4th alarm it's tilt back. (Which i never see, as i normally slow down at warning..)

I prefer the voice warning..(Please Decelerate) So i hear only 3rd alarm. I simply set 3rd alarm lower from those 40kph..

Edited February 18, 2022 by Funky

[pkinpdx]

32 minutes ago, Funky said:

I saw the UK review, he said he got around 30 miles of range on 20S. But i don't know how he did that test.. Seems very low mileage.

Also i don't like how the "spring" part is so exposed.. Dropping it backwards will destroy it fast.

He had two things wrong with his range test.  He was only charged to 93% when he started and his update wasn't from soft tuner so the BMS didn't get updated.  Until those things are fixed I would discount his results.  RevRides got about 60 miles riding fairly aggressively (mid 30's) from two different riders.

Edited February 18, 2022 by pkinpdx

[supercurio]

12 minutes ago, Funky said:

On my 18xl, i only hear 3rd alarm.. Because i have enabled "voices". If i disable "voices" i hear beeps at 1,2,3... 

For my surprise. I thought for a while, that i was riding around 30kph speeds.. But no, i was riding 40kph, because i did not know, that 1/2 alarm is ignored when "voices" are enabled.

When "voices" are disabled, i can hear slow small beeps at first alarm, at second alarm it beeps faster/louder, at 3rd alarm it beeps crazy.

At 4th alarm it's tilt back. (Which i never see, as i normally slow down at warning..)

I prefer the voice warning..(Please Decelerate) So i hear only 3rd alarm. I simply set 3rd alarm lower from those 40kph..

Ah yes on older wheels there's also voices for speed alarms + beeps for torque / acceleration alarms.

S18 and S20 don't have a speaker, so all these alarms are a cause of confusion, reducing dramatically the efficacy of the actual alarm that matter and must not be ignored, actually the main safety mechanism.
- which was not as much of an issue with the voice like on 18L, 18XL, 16X

Edited February 18, 2022 by supercurio

[Paul A]

Might not be linear relationship between battery percentage and range.

[Tawpie]

4 minutes ago, supercurio said:

S18 and S20 don't have a speaker, so all these alarms are a cause of confusion, reducing dramatically the efficacy of the actual alarm that matter and must not be ignored, actually the main safety mechanism.

Has anyone noted if the beeps can be heard at top speed? ie: is the beeper any use in the wind?

[Paradox]

12 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

Has anyone noted if the beeps can be heard at top speed? ie: is the beeper any use in the wind?

It does not appear to be very loud.  Linked video at time of speed test.

 

[I_Must_Bust]

18 hours ago, Rollin-on-1 said:

You could get an RS from eWheels with the Litech packs.

Is that the resolute version or do all eWheels' RS wheels have safer batteries?

[Paul A]