Kingsong S20/S22 (Confirmed)

[Funky]

8 minutes ago, RagingGrandpa said:

Individual cell voltage display! 
And updatable BMS firmware!

Now I just hope there's an alarm for imbalance, so the users are alerted even if they don't nervously check the app before every ride...

It's that thing that every euc owner wanted right? Where you can see every battery voltage, before we saw only pack voltage?

Needed to double check if i was not dreaming.

Maybe it's a "joke" video? xD

 

[Meso]

My beleive is that even if there was a rider error on this drop, even if it landed at a stop or not, the wheel should not have cut-out. That's a design flaw. That's the main point of having a powerfull wheel. This ramp up voltage for 3 meters thing is worriesome for me. Main reason I like powerfull wheel is for quick reaction, fast acceleration and knowing they got my back. It's king of good tho that this happend (not for te rider or the wheel obviously) because being a demo wheel I am sure (strongly hope) that Kingsong is closely monitoring everything happening and it will help theme realize that the need to figure out how to instantly deliver 126v even if it means redesign of the board. To me, so far that is my only concern about it. For the rest I strongly think that this wheel get a great shot at being the best EUC available on the market right now. I alredy have a deposit on it. 

[5Cauac]

Here is a quick write-up to the Members Questions as I work on editing the video footage.

@Tawpie ....if you lay it down on the trail and pretend it's a mountain trail traversing a slope, how much of a problem is it to tip it back upright? Are the grab points (not counting the soon-to-be-broken front handle/bumper) conducive to getting its bulk back into riding position?

• This one was interesting, even though it’s a bit lighter than the Sherman, it feels just as heavy due to the top heaviness. Lifting by the lift handle in the back to get it upright was easy enough but it disengages the motor so you end up struggling to get it back to balance. I would turn this feature off.

@RagingGrandpa.....Does it beat Sherman in 0-30mph acceleration time, with the same rider?

• Yes. I took both my S18 and Sherm and the S20 does have faster acceleration but only after a few meters. The S20 does not have the immediate delivery of power (firmware restricted) but once it gets moving it takes off. I did not clock the time but you can feel the difference.

@That Guy ..... a) how strong is S20's acceleration, b) how stable it is at 25mph+ and c) how well it breaks (can you grab the bumper to break more aggressively? Comparison with Sherman in terms of comfort and performance would be great.

• As stated above it lacks immediate torque. After about 3 meters if you really lean into it, you can really feel the torque kick in.
• Very stable when I rode on pavement. No oscillations, updated firmware took care of that.
• Excellent braking power. I was impressed.
• I felt it on par with the Sherm with regards to comfort and width however, I would do away with the stock pads and get third party ones. Too me it was like a Sherman experience (felt solid) with better torque and butter smooth suspension at 20-25mph.

@Gaman .... how easy is it for the lift sensor to disengage by accident?

• Sans seat, easy but it will not disengage the motor if traveling more than 3mph. Kingsong stated they were fixing the floppiness of the handle.

 @Freeforester and @UniVehje How wide?  Compare the width between the legs with other existing wheels.

• Felt like the Sherman but the stock pads suck. They are just for looks IMO. Sorry but did not get an exact measurement.

@Grimm10 See if you can change the color output of the rear turn/running/brake light to an ALL RED configurement.

• The app will be able to change the color to whatever color you want on the color wheel. (currently not working)

@Paul A how exposed/likelihood of serious damage to batteries in event of a crash?  How robust is the casing? 

• The alloy battery case looks and feels solid. We were discussing concerns about the possibility of big rocks hitting the front of the case and causing batt damage but the trolley handle slides in a channel inside at the every front of the case so if that is hit, most likely you may end up with a stuck handle.

[pkinpdx]

Just now, Meso said:

My beleive is that even if there was a rider error on this drop, even if it landed at a stop or not, the wheel should not have cut-out. That's a design flaw. That's the main point of having a powerfull wheel. This ramp up voltage for 3 meters thing is worriesome for me. Main reason I like powerfull wheel is for quick reaction, fast acceleration and knowing they got my back. It's king of good tho that this happend (not for te rider or the wheel obviously) because being a demo wheel I am sure (strongly hope) that Kingsong is closely monitoring everything happening and it will help theme realize that the need to figure out how to instantly deliver 126v even if it means redesign of the board. To me, so far that is my only concern about it. For the rest I strongly think that this wheel get a great shot at being the best EUC available on the market right now. I alredy have a deposit on it. 

It did not cut out.  It was overpowered.  Any wheel can be overpowered given enough force.  I think the issue here is that the current s20 "hard" mode does not feel all that hard.  Chance tried to accelerate because of an awkward landing and the wheel responded after he was too far forward.  For someone used to an RST i can see this happening.  We have no idea if the current mapping of Hard will be what ships.  They could also adjust later as they fine tune it.

 

[Jon Stern]

12 minutes ago, pkinpdx said:

It did not cut out.  It was overpowered.  Any wheel can be overpowered given enough force.  I think the issue here is that the current s20 "hard" mode does not feel all that hard.  Chance tried to accelerate because of an awkward landing and the wheel responded after he was too far forward.  For someone used to an RST i can see this happening.  We have no idea if the current mapping of Hard will be what ships.  They could also adjust later as they fine tune it.

 

Anyone named "Chance" likely engages in risky behavior! 

[Jon Stern]

Are the vertical grooves on the battery housings t-slots, by any chance? If they are, it would be easy to develop pads that can be attached and adjusted without adhesive (or Velco with its own adhesive).

[5Cauac]

12 minutes ago, Jon Stern said:

Anyone named "Chance" likely engages in risky behavior! 

I gave him the nick name " Destroyer of Wheels" yesterday.

[Tawpie]

This is great! So glad Chance was ok. We've seen that it can take a tumble down a hill, bounce off a concrete stair and land on concrete and at least has a chance of limiting the damage to cosmetics. The way it finished its tumble, either the wheel was very lucky indeed, or it's pretty tough.

To me, anything can happen when you miss a drop like that... unless it's fully instrumented we'll never actually know! I wondered a little if the soil at landing was a bit soft and the tire sank in a bit, contributing to the demand for current as it tried to claw its way out of a hole... it's not clear in the video and I'm just speculating.

[Tawpie]

5 minutes ago, Jon Stern said:

Are the vertical grooves on the battery housings t-slots

Not from what I've seen (in photos). I'm planning on the velcro route partly because it'll distribute any tearing forces across the side of the battery case and not concentrate them in a groove or other hard attachment point.

[5Cauac]

3 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

it's not clear in the video and I'm just speculating.

Your speculation is correct. It was a soft landscaping bed and not compacted dirt. He did leave a nice divot where he landed.

[Forwardnbak]

I thought the wheel held together really well, encouraging to see it could handle something like that seems only cosmetic damage. 
 

good job taking the time to sort everyone’s questions 5cauac - great info. 

[pkinpdx]

And that was after Portland softened up the wheels by dropping them a few hundred times.  I couldn't tell if he did that splat on the one we had already broken the front handle on.

[5Cauac]

4 minutes ago, pkinpdx said:

And that was after Portland softened up the wheels by dropping them a few hundred times.  I couldn't tell if he did that splat on the one we had already broken the front handle on.

Nope, it was the other one. And yes, the suspension on the one with the broken front handle was broken in and felt much "softer" than the one he crashed.

[5Cauac]

I don't believe there was a single person who did not drop the S20 on it's side at the Demo. The top heaviness gets a little getting used to but once you do, it works as an advantage making it very responsive to turns and carving.

Edited February 14, 2022 by 5Cauac

[pkinpdx]

3 minutes ago, 5Cauac said:

Nope, it was the other one. And yes, the suspension on the one with the broken front handle was broken in and felt much "softer" than the one he crashed.

Yea I started on the broken handle one and was surprised how soft it was.  It felt like it was too soft for any trail riding.  I did do a drop with that one but it was only about 2 1/2 feet and was surprised that even with it set that soft i didn't bottom out.  I took the non broken handle out on a couple trails and felt like it was better set up for offroad at least for me.

[pkinpdx]

5 minutes ago, 5Cauac said:

I don't believe there was a single person who did not drop the S20 on it's side at the Demo. The top heaviness gets a little getting used to but once you do, it works as an advantage making it very responsive to turns and carving.

I was almost guilty of that.  My first turn i dropped into it way too hard and as I pulled a 180 it cut off from the angle.  I was lucky to be coming out of the turn when it stopped balancing and just caught the wheel before it fell over.  Wheel was set at 40 degree lean angle cut at that point so I changed it to 70.

[5Cauac]

8 minutes ago, pkinpdx said:

My first turn i dropped into it way too hard and as I pulled a 180 it cut off from the angle.

Yup, me too. I ended up catching that on video.  Just 2 mins in, I went for a sharp turn on grass at maybe 3 or 4 mph and it dumped me. The S20 did a face plant and I was forced to run it off. No damage was done just pieces of grass stuck to the already broken bumper.  Went over to the guys and set it back to max tilt.

[Turbomiäs]

Wondering what happens to the delivery schedule of S20:s when Russia starts WW3 

[Tawpie]

🙈🙉

Nooooooooo

[Rollin-on-1]

1 hour ago, 5Cauac said:

I don't believe there was a single person who did not drop the S20 on it's side at the Demo. The top heaviness gets a little getting used to but once you do, it works as an advantage making it very responsive to turns and carving.

Can you tell us how it is at high speed carving?  How does the tire feel while carving on the street?  Do you know what psi it had?  Thx!

Edited February 14, 2022 by Rollin-on-1
Typo

[Kutvis]

20 minutes ago, Turbomiäs said:

Wondering what happens to the delivery schedule of S20:s when Russia starts WW3 

All our S20's will be delivered to the first ever EUC army, this idea is ripped from the youtube of america.

E: I was actually planning to try archery with the S20

Edited February 14, 2022 by Kutvelo

[Jon Stern]

37 minutes ago, Turbomiäs said:

Wondering what happens to the delivery schedule of S20:s when Russia starts WW3 

The wheels will be repurposed after the apocalypse to build Securitrons.

[5Cauac]

19 minutes ago, Rollin-on-1 said:

Can you tell us how it is at high speed carving?  How does the tire feel while carving on the street?  Do you know what psi it had?  Thx!

I was mainly focused on riding the dirt path along the paved bike trial we were on so no, I can't. Others were having no problem carving it up at around 20 to 25mph. The tire felt great, plenty of bite on both street and dirt. Not sure what the PSI was at, sorry. 

[Forwardnbak]

Is there any real info on range from anyone yet? Has anyone had time to do any real range testing? 
 

maybe missed this. 

[Tawpie]

I thought I heard something, but always discount "range" because it's so dependent on so many things. I ride faster and longer on my 16x than many users, and still I use 30-40% less energy than other 16x riders.

Edited February 14, 2022 by Tawpie