An advocacy for non-suspension EUCs

[Funky]

2 minutes ago, earthtwin said:

Isn’t an electric bike or a car better suited for that @Funky?

Nope. They take up to much space.. And for bike i would need a train "baggage" ticket.  (The main reason i got a "PEV". Could have gotten scooter.. But EUC - more speed, smaller, etc..)

[woke rider]

When I choose to ride my electric unicycle for transportation to somewhere I have to be but don’t want to be, then I set aside some extra fun time on my euc during transportation time.

[Funky]

8 minutes ago, earthtwin said:

When I choose to ride my electric unicycle for transportation to somewhere I have to be but don’t want to be, then I set aside some extra fun time on my euc during transportation time.

I used to go for ~40km "fun" rides. Going nonstop 35-40km/h speeds. But meh.. I got bored.

Now i'm using my wheel only for commutes to work. (I was riding regular bike for decade.) And i'm looking for something smaller/lighter, with smaller battery and speed wise can be slower also. As i'm ridding now 25-30km/h speeds most times. And commute is only about 5km long. (I'm charging my 1554Wh wheel once every 2 weeks.) < That's why i'm looking for something smaller/lighter, as i don't need range/speed. ("Looking" - i mean waiting for something decent to be released..)

Edited November 15, 2023 by Funky

[woke rider]

I’m not bored when I ride my euc. It’s a fun social interaction in my small town, I take a shortcut through the cemetery to practice my reverence and take a shortcut. I explore hidden trails and shortcuts and new neighborhoods. It’s fun navigating obstacles. I don’t see how suspension would change any of that.

[Funky]

7 minutes ago, earthtwin said:

I’m not bored when I ride my euc. It’s a fun social interaction in my small town, I take a shortcut through the cemetery to practice my reverence and take a shortcut. I explore hidden trails and shortcuts and new neighborhoods. It’s fun navigating obstacles. I don’t see how suspension would change any of that.

Sure it's more fun ridding euc than bike or scooter.. But at some point it got boring simply ridding around meaninglessly. I still love riding euc. Just not meaninglessly around.. Also social interaction - 

Edited November 15, 2023 by Funky

[woke rider]

When we ride we aren’t stuck in a box like everyone else. 

[atdlzpae]

8 hours ago, Aztek said:

And it is a killer for the knees.

No. We evolved to walk for kilometers per day without any issues, strain from riding an EUC isn't much worse than that.
If your joints are problematic, bad diet that triggers autoimmune reactions is the most likely cause.
We're actually pretty robust animals. We need a ton of abuse to actually destroy our bodies via physical exercise. And EUC definitely doesn't qualify unless you do jumps and stuff daily for years.

8 hours ago, Aztek said:

With non-suspension ones falling due to even minor irregularities on the ground is guaranteed at certain point.
And one just can't ride it on certain terrains.

Edited November 15, 2023 by atdlzpae

[Planemo]

2 hours ago, atdlzpae said:

No. We evolved to walk for kilometers per day

Agreed on that but for me at least the problem with non sus EUC is that I rode with my knees bent at say a 45 degree angle for around a 100 miles (my average ride length). I found this riding for hours at such an angle far more tiring than walking even for say 7 hours.

With a suspension EUC I still ride with bent knees but it's a far shallower angle, maybe only 15 degrees. This, for me, makes a huge difference. My knees, quads and calves were absolutely finished after a day on a non-sus wheel, the 1st ride I did on the EX at the same distance I was fine. The sus euc also allows me to lock out my legs for a bit of relief if I need it, something which I never, ever did on a non-sus through fear of coming across a rogue bump that I didn't see.

[Funky]

45 minutes ago, Planemo said:

Agreed on that but for me at least the problem with non sus EUC is that I rode with my knees bent at say a 45 degree angle for around a 100 miles (my average ride length). I found this riding for hours at such an angle far more tiring than walking even for say 7 hours.

With a suspension EUC I still ride with bent knees but it's a far shallower angle, maybe only 15 degrees. This, for me, makes a huge difference. My knees, quads and calves were absolutely finished after a day on a non-sus wheel, the 1st ride I did on the EX at the same distance I was fine. The sus euc also allows me to lock out my legs for a bit of relief if I need it, something which I never, ever did on a non-sus through fear of coming across a rogue bump that I didn't see.

Yeah if some ride 40miles, or more every day.. There is nothing else to choose! There is no question sus or not sus.. YOU NEED the suspension then! Or else your body gonna hurt.

Luckily my commute is only 3 miles long and i don't even bend the knees anymore on my non-sus wheel. (I take same path all the time - i know all the bumps already.) When i ride somewhere else i somewhat bend them and ride more "loosely". 

At mornings i simply stand completely straight and ride like a zombie.  Still half sleeping.. (I ride on almost straight line sidewalks and see maybe 1-3 people while commuting.) So yeah.. I know riding not bent knees are "bad". But i have been doing that already 2+ years.. 

Edited November 15, 2023 by Funky

[atdlzpae]

1 hour ago, Planemo said:

Agreed on that but for me at least the problem with non sus EUC is that I rode with my knees bent at say a 45 degree angle for around a 100 miles (my average ride length). I found this riding for hours at such an angle far more tiring than walking even for say 7 hours.

If you're regularly riding 160km suspension is definitely warranted. Especially if you're not a 30km/h tilt-back slowpoke like me.
I'd be surprised if I bend my knees more than like 10° - perks of slow speeds.

To me suspension would be kinda worthless (except for more comfort) since I don't feel safe riding with other traffic at higher speeds - people are unpredictable.

53 minutes ago, Funky said:

I know riding not bent knees are "bad".

Yeah. My knees are typically bent just enough so they "fold" if I hit an unexpected bump. Hitting a bump with locked knees is not fun.

[Scubadragonsan]

Besides practicality, it's a choice, fun, innovation... What if with a flip of a switch, EUCs can become suspension or non-suspension? 

Edited December 6, 2023 by Scubadragonsan

[woke rider]

Suspension EUC's are not affordable, they are too heavy, too menacing looking to the public, and extremely dangerous because of the high top speeds. I don't know if I can trust the suspension not to break on me. The only suspension EUC I could really afford would be the S18 and it's known for cut-outs and suspension issues. I really would like suspension, but I thought that upgrading to the Z10 was a bit much in terms of menacing size and weight. I would totally sell my Z10 and my 14D to buy an S18, but since I weigh 240lbs I'm concerned about a cut out. $3500 and 86lbs is way too expensive and heavy.

[Scubadragonsan]

42 minutes ago, iwantmymtv said:

Suspension EUC's are not affordable, they are too heavy, too menacing looking to the public, and extremely dangerous because of the high top speeds.

Your objections are understandable. Not affordable, financing is available; Car and trucks are way more heavier and menacing looking to the public; Cutoffs can happen to suspension as well as non-suspension; Speed is only an option and safety gear should be worn at all times. I am only 150lbs riding the Sherman S. The bottom line is really a choice. Being a wheel enthusiast, I feel I should have the top gun wheel, that's why I got Sherman S for further learning and experience.

[Funky]

3 hours ago, iwantmymtv said:

Suspension EUC's are not affordable, they are too heavy, too menacing looking to the public, and extremely dangerous because of the high top speeds. I don't know if I can trust the suspension not to break on me. The only suspension EUC I could really afford would be the S18 and it's known for cut-outs and suspension issues. I really would like suspension, but I thought that upgrading to the Z10 was a bit much in terms of menacing size and weight. I would totally sell my Z10 and my 14D to buy an S18, but since I weigh 240lbs I'm concerned about a cut out. $3500 and 86lbs is way too expensive and heavy.

It doesn't matter how "powerful" wheel you ride. Cut-Out can happen on any wheel..

I'm 280lbs and have ridden KS16S without problems! Simply respect beeps and don't accelerate FAST! Know the wheel limits, etc..

My own wheel is KS18XL and have ridden it 3 years without any alarms. Only alarms i have had is when i TRIED to get overpower alarm to trigger. Aside of lower battery/power availability alarm ~5 times maybe. I have had zero problems.

I also hate the weight - that's why i'm looking to buy even smaller wheel - for my next wheel. Maybe something with ~1500W motor and ~1000Wh battery someday. If lightweight wheels will be made again.. 

Yes suspension is more expensive, but not by much.. If you compare same type of wheels. (Sherman Max vs Sherman S for example.) 300-500$ for suspension.

If you can ride 14D, you can ride S18 without problems. As it has bigger battery and stronger motor. As i said before - know wheel limits and respect beeps.

I'm 280lbs and i think i could easily ride 40km/h speeds on S18 without any problems. I'm mostly riding around 30-35km/h nowadays anyways. So it would be perfect fit. Naturally if you wanna ride faster than 40km/h, look at bigger wheels than S18.. (See i know S18 can go 50km/h speeds - I simply choose not to go that fast, because of my weight cut-out happening has pretty big probability. If you ride 35-40km/h and not aggressively i would say you're quit safe.)

 

I personally am waiting for kingsong S14 to be released. It may be my next wheel. (If it has that big/fat tire. It real diameter will be closer to 16", which would be prefect in my book. Also smaller battery than 18xl and weaker motor - it should be "lighter". I don't jump curbs, etc.. So suspension also should be fine even under my 280lbs ass. Even if it's rated for 240-260lbs..) 

Edited December 6, 2023 by Funky

[bpong]

On 11/6/2020 at 1:12 PM, TheseusMinor said:

Evidently, EUCs with no suspension are more cognitively tasking because one must be more alert to anticipate more feedback from road irregularities - especially on off-road paths. Non-suspension wheels afford a riding experience that is very dynamic, requiring presence of mind and whole body involvement to make the ride stable, comfortable and enjoyable. 

The extreme example is the Ninebot One Z. It's almost magical how, after about a week, that hard-to-turn, spine-shatteringly dense, frustratingly tread-following EUC becomes enjoyable. The extra effort in non-suspension EUCs, that is abated in suspension EUCs, can be enjoyable as a function of experience and riding style.

So go for a non-suspension wheel if you generally prefer - or when you're in the mood for - a wholly absorbing riding experience at all speed regimes, where applying beyond-basic technique and flare almost feels like performing a martial art exhibition or dominating the dancefloor.

although very well written, and very eloquent to read,  to advocate and rejuvenate the advantages and interest in non suspended eucs could be lost on the reader IF the reader belongs to the group of older riders.  when i say 'old' i mean retired or semi-retired.

if you are young, physically fit and want to experience both suspended and non-suspended euc rides,  you have that distinct advantage of youth and physical ability.  if you are 60 and over,  you dont have the advantage of youth,  and physically,  our bodies are actually deteriorating slowly as opposed to building up strength.

dont misunderstand my reply to this topic - i only ride a non-suspended euc and thats because i havent gotten around to purchasing a suspended ride.  for this year 2023,  i am in the hunt for a suspended ride cause my knees are starting to feel the wear and tear of 1+ hr rides meandering around suburbia and such...

IMO, after 5 yrs of commuting on a non-suspended lo-tech euc,  i am looking forward to riding a suspended euc.  i test rode a few this past spring and it feels weird i must say,  but in a good way cause my knees didnt feel much pain cause i didnt have to flex them much.

suspended and non-suspended eucs is similar to the vinyl/tube amp school of audiophiles, versus the modern digital audiophiles.  for myself,  i look forward to enjoying both non-suspended and suspended,  depending on the weather that day,  and whether or not (and this is only for those 60+ yrs old) my knees are in the mood to flex or not flex.  the fact that i can enjoy both says it all, ... im just damn happy to be out and about, regardless of whether the wheel is suspended or not.  in the end, its the riding and not the ride for me.

Maniacal laughter fading into the distant background ...

[woke rider]

Truth be told, I want an Inmotion V14 really bad.

[Mono]

On 12/6/2023 at 7:35 PM, Funky said:

I personally am waiting for kingsong S14 to be released. It may be my next wheel. (If it has that big/fat tire. It real diameter will be closer to 16", which would be prefect in my book.

[xiiijojjo]

Suspension seems to require too much maintenance, I much prefer the times when an inner tube was the only thing you'd ever have to swap out, as long as you didn't destroy the plastic shell lol.

I'd be really interested in something like a lynx but without suspension, maybe with even more battery, because it would be a lot lighter from lacking suspension.

But where non-suspension wheels really shine in my opinion is the 20inch+ category, but I honestly don't see non-suspension ever making a comeback. At most we'll be lucky if they include kits for removing the suspension, allowing you to ride unsuspended like on the V13, but even that feature is probably going away. 

I just want something like the wheels of yesteryear that could go for 10k+ kilometers with just a couple of tube changes, because dealing with suspension issues is one of the things currently holding me back from pulling the trigger and buying a wheel, because last time I bought one, suspension wasn't a thing yet.

One of the things that originally drew me to EUCs was the lack of moving parts and maintenance. Right now I'm mostly concerned I buy some expensive gotway and end up with suspension issues in 2-3 years when they no longer make parts for that wheel.. Having to buy 2x spare parts of all parts for a gotway wheel shouldn't be a requirement, to guarantee you can service it in the future... But I do want a hot charge port though, so maybe I just have to accept poor suspension quality for now and hopefully be rewarded with better suspensions, that requires less maintenance in the future?

Or maybe I just wait a few weeks and see what new wheels gotway announce then 

Inmotion is having a meltdown in leadership and a huge list of wheels are allegedly releasing this year, maybe there's a non-suspension wheel somewhere on that long list? With a list that long it would seem like they are desperately trying to make a wheel for every situation/niche imaginable to see what sticks, so maybe we'll see the first non-suspension wheel in years, out of sheer desperation?

[Mono]

On 12/6/2023 at 7:58 PM, bpong said:

although very well written, and very eloquent to read,  to advocate and rejuvenate the advantages and interest in non suspended eucs could be lost on the reader IF the reader belongs to the group of older riders.  when i say 'old' i mean retired or semi-retired.

if you are young, physically fit and want to experience both suspended and non-suspended euc rides,  you have that distinct advantage of youth and physical ability.  if you are 60 and over,  you dont have the advantage of youth,  and physically,  our bodies are actually deteriorating slowly as opposed to building up strength.

Older riders, on average, care less and less going fast and crazy, and hence they are less in need of suspension. At lower speeds, a wide tire is as effective, or more so, to make the ride comfortable and smooth.

On 12/5/2023 at 9:50 PM, Scubadragonsan said:

Besides practicality, it's a choice, fun, innovation... What if with a flip of a switch, EUCs can become suspension or non-suspension? 

Personally, my main problem with suspension is the weight (and secondarily size) and this will never go away with a flip of a switch.

1 hour ago, xiiijojjo said:

Suspension seems to require too much maintenance

That's not a necessary feature of suspension tough, full suspension bicycles can be 100% maintenance free (at least those I rode for years).

[Cerbera]

1 hour ago, Mono said:

Older riders, on average, care less and less going fast and crazy, and hence they are less in need of suspension.

Yeah, but we've also got ropier old knees, and suspension is SO much kinder to them, whatever speed we're going !

[KAY GEE]

3 hours ago, xiiijojjo said:

Suspension seems to require too much maintenance, I much prefer the times when an inner tube was the only thing you'd ever have to swap out, as long as you didn't destroy the plastic shell lol.

I'd be really interested in something like a lynx but without suspension, maybe with even more battery, because it would be a lot lighter from lacking suspension.

But where non-suspension wheels really shine in my opinion is the 20inch+ category, but I honestly don't see non-suspension ever making a comeback. At most we'll be lucky if they include kits for removing the suspension, allowing you to ride unsuspended like on the V13, but even that feature is probably going away. 

I just want something like the wheels of yesteryear that could go for 10k+ kilometers with just a couple of tube changes, because dealing with suspension issues is one of the things currently holding me back from pulling the trigger and buying a wheel, because last time I bought one, suspension wasn't a thing yet.

One of the things that originally drew me to EUCs was the lack of moving parts and maintenance. Right now I'm mostly concerned I buy some expensive gotway and end up with suspension issues in 2-3 years when they no longer make parts for that wheel.. Having to buy 2x spare parts of all parts for a gotway wheel shouldn't be a requirement, to guarantee you can service it in the future... But I do want a hot charge port though, so maybe I just have to accept poor suspension quality for now and hopefully be rewarded with better suspensions, that requires less maintenance in the future?

Or maybe I just wait a few weeks and see what new wheels gotway announce then 

Inmotion is having a meltdown in leadership and a huge list of wheels are allegedly releasing this year, maybe there's a non-suspension wheel somewhere on that long list? With a list that long it would seem like they are desperately trying to make a wheel for every situation/niche imaginable to see what sticks, so maybe we'll see the first non-suspension wheel in years, out of sheer desperation?

Same sentiments here. 

I'll keep riding the OG Commander and OG Sherman. 💯

Edited March 3 by KAY GEE

[Funky]

3 hours ago, xiiijojjo said:

Suspension seems to require too much maintenance, I much prefer the times when an inner tube was the only thing you'd ever have to swap out, as long as you didn't destroy the plastic shell lol.

I'd be really interested in something like a lynx but without suspension, maybe with even more battery, because it would be a lot lighter from lacking suspension.

But where non-suspension wheels really shine in my opinion is the 20inch+ category, but I honestly don't see non-suspension ever making a comeback. At most we'll be lucky if they include kits for removing the suspension, allowing you to ride unsuspended like on the V13, but even that feature is probably going away. 

I just want something like the wheels of yesteryear that could go for 10k+ kilometers with just a couple of tube changes, because dealing with suspension issues is one of the things currently holding me back from pulling the trigger and buying a wheel, because last time I bought one, suspension wasn't a thing yet.

One of the things that originally drew me to EUCs was the lack of moving parts and maintenance. Right now I'm mostly concerned I buy some expensive gotway and end up with suspension issues in 2-3 years when they no longer make parts for that wheel.. Having to buy 2x spare parts of all parts for a gotway wheel shouldn't be a requirement, to guarantee you can service it in the future... But I do want a hot charge port though, so maybe I just have to accept poor suspension quality for now and hopefully be rewarded with better suspensions, that requires less maintenance in the future?

Or maybe I just wait a few weeks and see what new wheels gotway announce then 

Inmotion is having a meltdown in leadership and a huge list of wheels are allegedly releasing this year, maybe there's a non-suspension wheel somewhere on that long list? With a list that long it would seem like they are desperately trying to make a wheel for every situation/niche imaginable to see what sticks, so maybe we'll see the first non-suspension wheel in years, out of sheer desperation?

I'm waiting for that 45lbs non suspension 18" wheel that "Might" come after Falcon. RS19 replacement.

Or KS-S14.  

Edited March 3 by Funky

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, Mono said:

Older riders, on average, care less and less going fast and crazy, and hence they are less in need of suspension. At lower speeds, a wide tire is as effective, or more so, to make the ride comfortable and smooth.

I would disagree.

At least for those who can feel pain.

A well tuned and dialled S22 suspension is many, many folds better for going over bumpy roads than an Abrams with a 2.75-17 stock tire.

An Abrams with even 15 psi tire pressure travelling at 20 km/h to 30 km/h can still send jolts to cause pain in leg joints, depending on the potholes or bumps, and the rider's leg joints.

There is simply no comparison to a good suspension wheel. 

But for those who don't feel pain, sure, non-suspension wheel can work.

The smoothest non-suspension wheel I have experienced is a V12 in very soft pedal mode, shod with a very stiff, under-sized tubeless scoooter tire at low tire pressure. 

When riding on the same roads and at the same speeds, the V12 causes less pain than an Abrams with stock tire at 15 psi, in soft pedal mode.

A stock out-of-the-box OG S22 suspension sucks bad. But it can still better blunt out sharp pain to leg joints than non-suspension wheels when going over bigger bumps.

 

Edited March 3 by techyiam

[Funky]

@techyiam We all know already you like suspension. I can agree it is "game changing". But some people still would prefer wheel without it..

Same way some people like to own/ride those "fixies" bicycles. Next guy like to ride top notch MTB/Road bike that has electric brakes, etc.. Two different people.

Fixies have no gears - one speed. No brakes etc.. It simply is the best for people who want reliability over all other things. And there are the people who want to feel comfortable and has no worries about breaking things. As they are okay to bring their top notch bike to workshop and don't even need to work on it themselves. 

Edited March 3 by Funky

[techyiam]

12 minutes ago, Funky said:

We all know already you like suspension. I can agree it is "game changing". But some people still would prefer wheel without it..

Don't get me wrong. If I don't experience leg joint pain, I would be quite content with either with my V12 or my Abrams.

I wouldn't need a suspension wheel for under 50 km/h riding, which is what I do mostly.