Inmotion 2021, let the talk begin...

[EUChristian]

On 11/9/2020 at 12:37 AM, rogueone said:

Would love these cool things in future EUC's:

• Tire pressure sensor and warnings when pressure hits a certain number.
• Better, more stable kickstands.
• Radar like on the Garmin Varia that alerts the user when an object gets closer. The Garmin also pulsates its rear light faster when an object approaches.
• Tires that are easy to change.
• Maybe a blocky seat that also doubles as a handy parking block/stand.
• More integration with Apple Watch (maybe a horn that's easy to access?).
• More weatherproofing.

I'll go a bit further in the future...

- Removable swappable batteries

- Modular platform (multiple tire sizes swappable into same body)

- App controlled auto-suspension aka airbags

- Emergency Braking at high speed (auxiliary motor)

- Auxiliary Suspension (built into seat like Marty's seat design)

- Smart lighting (led strip lights beat to music, strobe for a notification, take my heart pulses from my smart watch and make the light reflect my heartbeat)

- Auto Sensing Front Light - light tilts up and down for grade changes

- Fog Lights 

- Voice commands - speak commands on the fly into Hemet mic, request data and have it spoken to you..."Computer, activate Go Home Mode", "Computer what is my current distance left at this speed"

- Eco Mode - allows you to not only reduce threshold top speed but to put a soft tilt that you can't overcome so its fun to run at the top and its almost like a highly concentrated soft Mode

- Battery Power displayed on unit in percentage, miles left and time left to ride, updates every 20 seconds and uses a two minute average to keep from seeing spikes 

- Runflat tires

 

 

Here are stupid personal future desires that prob only make sense to me:

- Remote Controller - might seem stupid to you, but in certain situations I'd like to carry a remote to control my speed like an electric skateboard. For instance, riding seated on the V11 is my favorite way but also a nuisance because of my stance necessary to ride at 30. I'd prefer to sit straight up and control my speed. Yes I know I can alter pedal tilt on V11. 

- Cruise Control - would love to set a speed and be done with it for bike trails. Again I'm long for the ride vs controlling it

- Airhorn- I want to blow it and people 300 miles away hear it and I want it voice controlled. 

- Able to select from multiple voice actors so my EUC sounds like a beautiful European goddess or a middle age man from London (and the programming is already done without your broke ass hiring you best friends gf to talk into your V11 app and program the voice notifications)

- Solar Panels for added regeneration 

 

 

Long long term future innovations:

- An energy shield that prevents wind from touching me

- Full automated bionic integrated AI working in tandem with the user and neural network to predict actions milliseconds before and transmit them - super soldier but EUC

- Missiles and Grappling Hooks, I'd even take a light rail gun. 

- OLED skins on body to change colors of unicycle 

- Teleportation

- Pizza oven

[mrelwood]

On 11/11/2020 at 9:19 AM, EUChristian said:

I'll go a bit further in the future...

Nothing wrong with that. But I just wanted to comment why a few of those can never be implemented.

On 11/11/2020 at 9:19 AM, EUChristian said:

- Emergency Braking at high speed (auxiliary motor)

There is no need for additional braking power from the wheel. If there would be, we’d read about people landing on their asses while braking.

 An EUC feeling sluggish either in acceleration or braking has nothing to do with the power capabilities of the wheel. Just like a midget wouldn’t gain anything from doubling the horse powers of a car if he can’t reach to push the gas pedal all the way. Brake pedal on all self-balancing vehicles is the rider’s lean. More lean, more acceleration or braking.

 The firmware could however use a bit more logic to lessen the effort an emergency braking requires. And it could do it today. And KS fw 2.x actually does already, to some extent.

On 11/11/2020 at 9:19 AM, EUChristian said:

- Fog Lights

Aren’t fog lights on a car just lights located as low as possible? I have yet to ride in a fog where visibility was an issue though.

On 11/11/2020 at 9:19 AM, EUChristian said:

- Runflat tires

We already have Slime/Goop.

 But the automatic angle of the headlight is indeed a feature that’s needed already. Cheap tech to do it also exists today. Hopefully it won’t take too long to happen.

 

On 11/11/2020 at 9:19 AM, EUChristian said:

Again I'm long for the ride vs controlling it

I’m sure you’re right, in that you might be alone with this... I think having the amazing control of the EUC is for the most part the key to it’s amazingness.

 

On 11/11/2020 at 9:19 AM, EUChristian said:

- Teleportation

Hmm. I’d actually just enjoy the ride instead!

 And I think the pizza oven should be replaced by a snack food printer.

[EUChristian]

6 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Nothing wrong with that. But I just wanted to comment why a few of those can never be implemented.

There is no need for additional braking power from the wheel. If there would be, we’d read about people landing on their asses while braking.

 An EUC feeling sluggish either in acceleration or braking has nothing to do with the power capabilities of the wheel. Just like a midget wouldn’t gain anything from doubling the horse powers of a car if he can’t reach to push the gas pedal all the way. Brake pedal on all self-balancing vehicles is the rider’s lean. More lean, more acceleration or braking.

 The firmware could however use a bit more logic to lessen the effort an emergency braking requires. And it could do it today. And KS fw 2.x actually does already, to some extent.

Aren’t fog lights on a car just lights located as low as possible? I have yet to ride in a fog where visibility was an issue though.

We already have Slime/Goop.

 But the automatic angle of the headlight is indeed a feature that’s needed already. Cheap tech to do it also exists today. Hopefully it won’t take too long to happen.

 

I’m sure you’re right, in that you might be alone with this... I think having the amazing control of the EUC is for the most part the key to it’s amazingness.

 

Hmm. I’d actually just enjoy the ride instead!

 And I think the pizza oven should be replaced by a snack food printer.

You know I was just spitballing right?  Appreciate the feedback though. 

- fog lights are usually yellow to cut through the fog

- Slime is not a run flat, its a cheap way to achieve close to the same result. The problem here is this would make the rim heavier. 

- agreed on cruise control lol

- I think snack food printer beats pizza I've changed my mind. 

[Sushiroller]

On 11/11/2020 at 2:19 AM, EUChristian said:

- Removable swappable batteries

That's a pretty cool idea. Some e-bike manufacturers, like Vela, offer extra batteries for $129 a pop. Those who make electric motorcycles and scooters like Honda, Yamaha, Kawasaki, and Suzuki are also testing swappable battery ecosystems (so that motorcycles from each manufacturer can all rely on the same battery design).

Chinese automaker Nio is planning for a future where instead of charging a car at home or a charging station, drivers would visit a battery station and swap the battery in their car for a fresh one (this would make the car cheaper to buy in the first place).

On 11/11/2020 at 2:19 AM, EUChristian said:

- Fog Lights

I believe front fog lights, at least on cars, are a relic of the past. They are super situational and add to the cost of a vehicle. They are not considered standard equipment for cars and car manufacturers like Audi or Hyundai's Genesis don't even offer them. They are designed to run low on the ground because light from normal headlights reflect off the moisture in the air and blind the driver.

These days highly advanced headlights just point to where they need to to fill in the foreground and to the sides to help with driving. Cars these days will rely less on fog lights and more on advanced assist technology to guide them through bad driving conditions like safety features like lane assist and crash avoidance etc. I think traveling slow, high visibility gear (blinking lights, highly reflective vest, etc.), and maybe a horn would probably be more effective than fog lights for EUC's. In my area fog probably happens twice a year.

[Bill Kolk]

This is definitely not a necessity, but a bms that reports voltages for each individual cell would be cool. We could observe the balancing happening at real time when charging and help preserve the lifetime of the battery packs.

Edited November 17, 2020 by Bill Kolk

[Finn Bjerke]

No suspension no sales. 

Other brands have the ultra fast ultra heavy wheels or ultra small wheels (mten3) So Inmotion should do what they do best:

The safe, sane suspenion wheel.  Alternatively the lightweight suspension wheel for off roading (the Better S18) 

[MR BRAD]

On 11/5/2020 at 10:12 PM, mrelwood said:

On 11/5/2020 at 9:34 PM, ShanesPlanet said:

 

To better express what I’m thinking I should’ve added “for me“ after “where it’s at”. I fully agree with everything you said about suspension. It’s still a long way to go for manufacturers to get to a point where suspension would be free from teething issues.

I’m so glad you added that. I think MOST of us are actualized enough to understand that we have different interests and desires insofar as an “ideal” wheel. I almost had to cry myself to sleep though when I saw  @mrelwood’s suspension advocacy. I almost had to cancel my membership in his fan club.

[MR BRAD]

On 11/17/2020 at 10:25 AM, Finn Bjerke said:

No suspension no sales

I think there is at least some evidence that counters this assertion.
 

Mind you I’m not NOT N-O-T bashing suspension wheels. It just seems that the market would support a world where non suspension wheels represent significant share thereof. 

[mrelwood]

2 hours ago, MR BRAD said:

I’m so glad you added that. I think MOST of us are actualized enough to understand that we have different interests and desires insofar as an “ideal” wheel. I almost had to cry myself to sleep though when I saw  @mrelwood’s suspension advocacy. I almost had to cancel my membership in his fan club.

What are you talking about... I have a fanclub??? 

Like bicycle riders, varying from vintage to fully suspended MTB’s, EUC riders are an amazingly varying bunch. Some just trick with their Mtens in a park, while some get close to 1000km on their road trip. For some of us suspension will be godsend, never to come back from, for some of us it really is just an irrelevant, meaningless quirk of the markets.

 My fanclub members should know rather well by now where I stand in regards...  But I still realize that for some riders a suspension a solution is not. Poor souls.

[AtlasP]

 

On 11/7/2020 at 2:42 AM, mike_bike_kite said:

The extra weight of most of these wheels means you need to be superman to lift them up a flight of stairs (the EX and V11 particularly).

When will this outdated information about the relative weight of the S18 & V11 stop being parroted? (Grouping the V11 & EX, and excluding the S18? wut?) The S18 increased in weight by over 6-7lbs between the widely-ridden demo unit and final production, making the final production version within just 4lbs of the V11--i.e. essentially the same--as well as essentially the same weight (within 1-2 pounds) as both the 100v Nikola and RS. Only the EX is a heavy suspension wheel (in fact 25lbs[!] heavier than the V11/S18), except its suspension is not really the fundamental cause as *all* the forthcoming ~$3500 Begode wheels are super heavy with or without suspension.

I'll say that again, the S18, V11, Nikola+, RS, and others are all within just a couple pounds of one another. Either you think all of these wheels are too heavy (which is a fair conclusion for some segment of lighter folks and/or those who need to carry their wheel around a lot), or else none of them are--the V11/suspension wheels in general are not uniquely heavy nor is the S18 uniquely lighter by any significant margin. Pretty much all the higher-end-yet-mainstream wheels (i.e. excluding the Sherman and forthcoming ~$3500 Begode wheels) are all essentially between 55-60 lbs/quite a narrow band all things considered. (Most of the perception of their relative weights is due to perceptions associated with differences in their riding characteristics, not wide variance in their actual weight.)

And before someone starts claiming how much the V11 sacrifices so much battery size at that weight, look at the most direct comparison: the 18XL is basically the closest to the V11 without suspension, similarly tall & svelte form-factors, 84v speeds, within ~50 Wh/essentially the exact same Wh, and the 18XL is 56lbs. So basically the V11 adds suspension, a wider 3" tire (instead of 2.5"), and a distinctly more powerful motor, all in just 4-5 total extra lbs. I'd say that's an amazing tradeoff, not "the V11's suspension makes it so much crazy heavier or causes it to have so much smaller battery".

Edited February 18, 2021 by AtlasP

[mike_bike_kite]

  

3 hours ago, AtlasP said:

 

When will this outdated information about the relative weight of the S18 & V11 stop being parroted (RE: "EX & V11 particularly"). The S18 increased in weight by over 6-7lbs between the widely-ridden demo unit and final production, making the final production version within just 4lbs of the V11--i.e. essentially the same--as well as essentially the same weight (within 1-2 pounds) as both the 100v Nikola and RS.

I'll say that again, the S18, V11, Nikola+, RS, and others are all within just a couple pounds of one another. Either you think all of these wheels are too heavy (which may be a fair conclusion for some segment of lighter folks and/or those who need to carry their wheel around a lot), or else none of them are ...

I don't think I said that the V11 was heavier than the S18 so I'm not sure why you quoted me. All the wheels you mention are extremely heavy wheels. The suspended V11 and S18 both weigh around 27KG which is far heavier than the maximum weight for a suitcase on an airline. The Nikola+ and RS are the same weight but they offer higher speeds and have larger batteries. The suspended EX weighs 38Kg which is just insane to me. I certainly wouldn't want to lift any of these wheels up a flight of stairs, or even up onto a workbench, and to me that's a disadvantage. 

[AtlasP]

On 1/28/2021 at 5:00 PM, mike_bike_kite said:

  I don't think I said that the V11 was heavier than the S18 so I'm not sure why you quoted me.

On 11/7/2020 at 2:42 AM, mike_bike_kite said:

The extra weight of most of these wheels means you need to be superman to lift them up a flight of stairs (the EX and V11 particularly).

Here's your original quote, in which you grouped the V11 (59lbs) with the EX (84lbs) despite a massive 25lbs difference--which by grouping in this context implies that they are in any way similar in weight (they aren't)--while excluding the S18 (55lbs), which by its omission would imply it was outside grouping with the others and notably lighter than both (it isn't).

On 1/28/2021 at 5:00 PM, mike_bike_kite said:

The suspended EX weighs 38Kg which is just insane to me.

Finally, something we can all agree on. ;-)

Edited January 30, 2021 by AtlasP

[mike_bike_kite]

I suspect when I posted the S18 weighed 23Kg but it has since gained a lot of weight making it almost the same as the V11 though the V11 has larger batteries but weirdly roughly the same range. I'd like to see all video reviewers carrying the wheels up a flight of stairs - it would add a bit of realism to many reviews.

[Unventor]

2 hours ago, mike_bike_kite said:

I suspect when I posted the S18 weighed 23Kg but it has since gained a lot of weight making it almost the same as the V11 though the V11 has larger batteries but weirdly roughly the same range. I'd like to see all video reviewers carrying the wheels up a flight of stairs - it would add a bit of realism to many reviews.

The V11 isn't that bad to carry unless to add pads on it. This is doe to the slim design. If I compare it to my KS16X it is much easier to lift up stairs. Depending in stairs you can ever trolley it (V11) up due to bigger rim vs KS16X. This is a special skill but once mastered it is possible. There are a few videos from a Russian guy (I think he is Russian or at least east European) that showcase this. He did this with his GW but it is easier with V11 that he made recording later on. 

But Tom line lifting an object depends on weight but even more by shape and where you lift it and how the weight is distributed to your grapping point(s).

My V11 isn't bad go up or down stairs. But it was hard to lift up into a trunk of a car or on a table. But with my hex I'm pedals I got a much better grapping points so it isn't as hard anymore. 

Edited January 29, 2021 by Unventor
Autocorrection.. Fixed

[mrelwood]

On 1/29/2021 at 11:53 PM, Unventor said:

The V11 isn't that bad to carry

I agree. The initial reaction I had when lifting it for the first time (on video) was that the batteries must be separately in the box. It felt lighter to lift even straight up than my 24kg MSX, even with it’s padded handle.

 My bad back still lifts the V11 on a table every week, sometimes even daily. I still rather do it with the V11 than the MSX.

[null]

Probably partly because the larger volume makes the body ready for effort, resulting in the illusion of less weight. We see that demonstration in physics vulgarisation some times; two cylinders of different size but same weight. The larger feels much lighter.

[Ádám Szitás]

The handle on the msx has a weird shape and it hurts somewhat when you lift it, I padded it as well but it is still uncomfortable especially with the msp where you need to press that stupid button as well. The nikola has a weird lifting handle as well, so that seems heavier too. I think it is just the shape and comfort of the handles that creates a difference, or maybe that you don't have to carry it higher because the body is taller?