How it started, and where it is taking me ...

[Scottie]

 

It’s raining now and I’m not out riding, so I think it’s time for this newbie to stop lurking and share a few words:

 

How it started,

and

where it is taking me

 

 

I am a 60 year old, 6 ft tall ex-bodybuilder, that gained a few pounds of extra weight, fluctuating between 230 to 240 pounds, with troublesome knees. Even with that, I still regard myself as a semi-athletic type that can take a fall and roll with it as needed, like a retired football player. Since my knees are not what they used to be, I was cruising at about 15 mph on an electric assist Giant Bicycle on the local rail-to-trail last October. I noticed an unusual sight approaching quickly in the mirror. A young man effortlessly whizzed by me at about 23 to 25 mph on an electric unicycle. I knew that the Seqway one wheeler was out there because I also have the NineBot MiniPro and have browsed their website. But this one was not that. I was much bigger and faster. That really raised my curiosity. Google lead me to eWheels.com and I drooled over many models.

 

The 16X won the battle for 1^st choice because it seemed like it would have the torque needed for a fellow my size. The 16X arrived in mid January. Living in the mid-west of the United States, near Indianapolis, we have somewhat cold winters at my latitude. But the new toy drew me outside for a few hours when the temperature was above 20 degrees F. Colder than that and I would practice the basic footwork in the garage.

 

Thanks to the many people that posted EUC training videos on YouTube, I was riding reliably at about 2 months of practice. I watched about a hundred training videos and took something of great value from each one. Even a simple comment like “Look and think where you want to go” resonated with me. Like many, I tended to look down right in front of me to see what I might stumble on, which is not good for balance. I played that statement over and over in my mind which caused me to finally look up and out towards where I wanted to go. The bigger horizon gives the brain more information to process a better sense of balance. All the videos that showed the mechanics of footwork and progressive drills where also invaluable. I don’t think I could have done it without all the YouTube help. Those guys taught me what to do and what to watch out for. So I don’t push my battery that hard and tend to recharge early so I have more safety margin.

 

I was not a fast learner like some that picked it up in a few days. The ankle and pedal thing bit me. As they have said ‘the pedals can be unforgiving’. Wear some ankle protection to soften the blow. I dropped the 16X more times than I wanted to. It seemed to brush off the beating with only some scuffs and scratches. The many videos of the fun rides on YouTube kept me inspired. I have watched almost all of Mike’s videos from Sweden. I am envious of the network of bike lanes, paths, and trails that go everywhere. The weather and vegetation is similar to where I live, so I was glad to see the batteries can still provide good power at lower temps. I’ve soaked up videos of rides around New York city, Boston, Colorado, Moscow, Taiwan, Japan, and Los Angeles. It has been like a great tour around the world. It is nice to know that most of us around the world enjoy the same things. Well, being 60, I knew that, but this YouTube tour of the world reinforced it.

 

A GotWay Monster from eWheels arrived next at my door and I have been riding it for about 2 weeks now. I really enjoy that one for touring around the small town I live in. It has opened up the back alleys and smaller, quiet neighborhood roads that we just don’t have time to bother with when we are driving our cars. It gives a whole new perspective of where I live.

 

I alternate rides between the 16X and the Monster. Each one has something to teach me. The 16X is good for a local park with some steep hills, gravel pathways, and winding sidewalks. I’ve taken it for adventure rides too. But the Monster is the better touring machine for me due to its stability, which allows me to feel more comfortable going a bit faster and just looking around and enjoying the ride more. The strong, less stable 16X has me focused on riding it more, with fewer moments of looking around and enjoying the sights.

 

The GotWay MSP will be the next wheel to enjoy, hopefully by mid to late April 2020. The bigger 2500 watt motor should hopefully provide torque similar to the 16X and the 18 inch wheel is right between the Monster and 16X. That one has the makings of being the favorite. The King Song 18XL also seems interesting with its 2200 watt motor and excellent trolley handle like the 16X. That would be a great one to run errands on. That might also be a great one to keep in the trunk of the car to help with mobility at some tourist destination, after all the Corona business dies down.

 

EUC riding has been great exercise for the legs, even with bad knees. It amounts to a lot of isometric exercise. The legs have adapted and firmed up a lot. They are almost as firm as the old bodybuilding days. The raw power of youth is not there. But the muscle tone is very much on par with the old days. I tend to stop about every twenty minutes and rest my feet and calve muscles for 2 or 3 minutes and then go again. I’m finding that the riding time is increasing and the resting time is decreasing.

 

Sometimes I think I’m turning into some kind of blend of a “Crouching Tiger” and a “Drunken Master”. Sometimes I'm in weird situations due to unexpected terrain disturbing my line, or I suddenly changed my mind on where I wanted to go, and the body is starting to automatically do all sorts of compensation moves to keep balance. Most of the time I’m a “Straight Man” though, who is starting to pull some tricks out of the bag, whatever is needed. It is not always a successful trick. But 99% of the time, it is a successful bail off with the old guy staying on his feet. Fortunately the stumbles have been at low speed. That’s when I push my limits of maneuverability. The faster I go, the more alert, conservative, planned things are.

 

When thinking about the expense of the new addiction, I relate it to the other things in life. To me, EUC riding is very much the same kind of fun and entertainment as motorcycle riding, which I’ve done a lot of in my years. I think we ride both for the same reason .... to blow the stink off. For the cost of an average quality one liter street motorcycle, a guy can have a fleet of EUC’s.

 

 

[.....]

Great share! EUCW or it didnt happen. Its good to hear of new riders getting along with it.  Have fun, ride lots, stay somewhat safe!

[meepmeepmayer]

Nice post! And nice stable of wheels, no time wasted there

[Mike Sacristan]

Great post Scottie! Thanks for the mention and i'm glad you enjoyed the videos. 

I was a slow learner to0 which turned out to be a good thing for me because I made just about every mistake one can make. 
That has helped me learn more about the don't and not just the do's and it has also made it easier for me to teach others.

The MSP will definitely have a nice spot between the 16X and the Monster!
The 18XL is also a very lovely wheel.

Like you say the hobby isn't really that expensive because when riding we don't spend money on other things like:

Going to the movies, going out drinking, etc and trying to get the stink out with money as a band-aid.

Thanks for sharing!

[Marty Backe]

So true that our local world totally opens up after you start riding. I lived in my town for 17-years before I actually discovered all of it once I started riding.

And your statement about costs also hits home. I have 12 quality wheels now. Yeah, it's a chunk of change. But still cheaper than a nice motorcycle.

[Scottie]

Fateful Encounter

And a couple of comments

Yesterday I was riding the 16X around the downtown area of my small mid-western town in the USA. I stopped at a street corner for a moment waiting for Main St. traffic to clear enough for a safe street crossing. Traffic cleared and then along came an older gentlemen, like myself, riding a GotWay Monster down the unusually Corona quiet street. I flagged him down and he pulled over. We chatted for a while, comparing notes. He had been riding about a year and a half. Myself, just over two months, and out and about just under a month .... waiting for my skills and confidence to improve enough to venture away from my training grounds. After sitting for the chat, we rode around a couple blocks chatting it up some more. It was getting late in the day and he had about 8 miles of riding to get home. He wanted to ride home during the daylight, so we parted company. 

I have been watching for other EUC riders since that young man whizzed by me on the trail, with no sightings until yesterday. The older gentleman thought that it may have been him that rode by me on the trail. But as I think back, the trail guy must have been on a KS16X, KS18L/XL or similar because of the colorful pulsating LED string on each side. The Monster does not have the pretty Christmas tree light thing happening. The gentleman is strictly a Monster rider for now (but in the market for the MSP next) so it could not have been him. So, theoretically there is probably 3 of us in my local area now.

If the EUC market is penetrating into my little town, that is good news for the industry. Typically the small towns in this area of the country are one of the last populations to adopt the latest trends or technology. Sometimes, as I ride around, I hear comments like, "Holy ____, look at that", or "Hey, that's cool". Some people slow down as they drive by while having a look at that crazy thing. Granted that 95% of the people just maybe notice it and keep on with their own business. It is hard to impress the ever more sophisticated population. Just ask the movie producers in Hollywood! 

Due to expense, I don't see teenagers riding around on these things unless they have unusually generous parents. From what I've seen on YouTube, it is a somewhat mature crowd (at least young adults) for the most part, riding these things. That may turn out to be a good thing, to keep the image of a EUC rider as respectable as possible. We all know that teenagers in general have a higher shenanigan coefficient! Of course, there are some that are mature beyond their years.

I would like to thank the people from around the globe that responded with their welcome. And keep the YouTube videos coming. I'm watching them all. And to Mike in Sweden, if you read this, my wife enjoys your humor and the touring of your country as much as I do. I would be glad to drink a beer with you, and I don't even drink beer. Well, maybe once a year! 

[Mike Sacristan]

2 hours ago, Scottie said:

 

I would like to thank the people from around the globe that responded with their welcome. And keep the YouTube videos coming. I'm watching them all. And to Mike in Sweden, if you read this, my wife enjoys your humor and the touring of your country as much as I do. I would be glad to drink a beer with you, and I don't even drink beer. Well, maybe once a year! 

Great encounter! Glad to hear there are more of you popping up. Cruising with buddies is fun.
I started a WhatsApp group last year for Stockholm EUC riders. We are almost 20 in the group now.
If someone is going to go for a cruise they post it so we can have spontaneous get-togethers.

Say hi to your wife and I am happy to hear that there are people out there who understand my humour. 
I don't drink beer that often though I do love beer. And beer together with riding is even more fun because it allows me to loosen up just a tiny bit... a tiny, tiny bit.

[Scottie]

The King Song 18XL arrived at the door a couple weeks ago. Like Mike in Sweden says, "a very lovely wheel". It has a natural feel to it, not requiring as much attention as the 16X, yet still quite maneuverable. With the 18 inch wheel, it climbs hills and accelerates with ease; without as much lean as the Monster. It took maybe 20 minutes to feel "at home" on it. The build quality is very good. I enjoy seeing the battery state of charge from all angles on the LED strings when stopped. The CST C-1488 tire has a very nice feel. Even though I have it near the max pressure of 45 psi, it still feels compliant over bumps. This is the same tire the GotWay MSP ships with I believe, only difference being the size with the MSP being 18 x 3" vs the 18XL being 18 x 2.5". I look forward to the MSP to see how that 1/2 thicker tire feels, making it even more of an off road capable wheel.

I am just now getting to where I head off the roads, trails and sidewalks and practice on grass. I tried grass riding a month ago and did not have the stability to do it well. Now I feel more stable from riding almost everyday and can now ride the 18XL across grass areas, if I trust it. There are lots of moles in this area and they loosen the ground almost invisibly under good grass. Hitting that mole ground is a show stopper.

Another small victory ... I can adjust my foot when it doesn't land on the pedal where I want it after free mounting. That took a bit of practice and confidence building. Just 3 weeks ago I was sure I would crash-n-burn if I tried that. This is the fun part of the learning curve for me, being up and going and enjoying it, while still having many new tricks to learn and improve on. Then there are the many subtle improvements that just come automatically from getting good wheel time and you have to think back and say to yourself, "Hey, that whatever thing is easy now"!

Now I just enjoy feeling like a 10 year old getting to know his world on his bicycle. Example: Today I rode around a small office building and explored all sides. Normally I just see the street side as I whiz by it in the car. The little rest breaks for the feet are a chance to just sit anywhere on anything and soak up the world in peace and enjoy the air.

Note: Sometimes I feel like a so and so for buying all these wheels, but then I hit myself and tell myself again, they still don't add up to a motorcycle $$$, then I'm good again.  

The MSP is ordered and on the way!   Oh no! How will I get along without suspension?

Edited April 23, 2020 by Scottie

[meepmeepmayer]

2 hours ago, Scottie said:

The MSP is ordered and on the way!

18XL and MSP, not bad! Update your list of wheels so everyone knows

2 hours ago, Scottie said:

Oh no! How will I get along without suspension?

Easy fix, since you're already on the right way. Just order a suspension wheel (or two).

[Scottie]

On 4/23/2020 at 2:03 PM, meepmeepmayer said:

Easy fix, since you're already on the right way. Just order a suspension wheel (or two).

The wife is already exasperated with me. But there is a strong possibility that could happen .

[Scottie]

Convergence or Confluence of Technology Musings

I am sitting here having just finished watching a couple of Duf's videos on the TV where he used his drone to capture aerial footage of him riding around the park. It occurred to me that this is possible because the drone is computerized with a great autopilot that tracked him with a stabilized camera. The sensors, batteries, motors, and motor controllers in the drone are much the same as what is running his EUC (justed scaled differently) although I believe the drone batteries use LiPo chemistry.

The digital photography allowed him to use a computer to edit it into a nice video which is then uploaded to the internet which I just enjoyed. I know I'm stating the obvious, but as an older guy I remember when none of this existed in any practical form until the last few decades and where things have really taken off in the last couple, especially this last one. This morning I just watched a video  about the EUC World app and one of the new features for Premium users is that an EUC can have a Jetsons sound effect (among others) playing that will match the EUC speed, which is made possible by a small computer-camera-music player-telephone-....-....-...... in our pocket.

And here we are communicating around the world sharing our enjoyment of this fun past time, hobby, or useful transportation. Today's kids were born with this stuff as commonplace. I wonder how far they will take it. When I was a kid we went to the moon with far less than the power of a cheap cellphone for computing.        

[Scottie]

The GotWay MSP arrived yesterday, 4-29-2020. What else could an EUC addict have done but check the battery charge, squeeze the tire and hop on!?!? As a side note: Like Marty noted in his latest video about his MSP pedals, there was no annoying power-up sound, just the standard beep. Well, I don't find the sound annoying. It is just that I don't want the people in the area looking over my way to find the source of the little melody and seeing an old guy trying to do something on a crazy object!

It was getting late so I took it into the garage and pumped up the tire to 40 psi in the 18 - 3.0 inch CST tire as an initial setting. I thought that might be roughly equal to the 43.5 psi I like in the 18XL 18 - 2.5 inch CST tire. It came out of the box with 20 psi which was nice and comfy but would not suit me for longer rides. I put it on the charger. It showed one green LED and one red LED on the charger. After about 1:30 to 2 hours, both were green. 

Early this morning I put the side pads on and rode it for about 30 minutes up and down my street checking it out and getting the feel and finding my favorite foot positions. Being a new rider, I'm still a bit fussy about where my feet are. I want them just exactly right. Many YouTubers say that anxiety will loosen up with experience. I'm glad eWheels set up their MSP's with lower angle pedals than standard for the MSP. I did not find the angles uncomfortable, just different. The pedal angles were just a few degrees higher than what I'm used to with the two King Songs and Monster. But after 5 minutes of riding that did not seem to matter.

I like the new motor sound and it is reassuring and helpful feedback. In just a few minutes I found myself willfully going faster on it than the other wheels. The whole experience was confidence inducing. I just felt more solid on that wheel, so the extra speed felt more natural. It is likely a combination of many factors ... the pedal angle ... the solid feel of the wheel control with that big motor ... the CST tire ... all adding up to something I wanted to go faster on. I found myself having to restrain myself. I'm still and 20 mph an under guy due to my age. But I like the more powerful wheels due to my weight, even though I will not use all that speed except for some kind of emergency; that dog's teeth look really big.

The reason I'm writing this is because it is raining now, otherwise I would be out riding it instead of writing about it.     

[Mike Sacristan]

Awesome @Scottie thanks for sharing!
You have quite a collection now. Congrats!

[Scottie]

Thanks MIke!

I wish I had as many friends as you have, that have the different wheels to be able to to swap rides with. Then I would have not been "forced" to buy these wheels to see what they are about.  All good; all of them together are still less expense than a motorcycle, and much more entertaining. I think I'm set for a long while now. From seeing the miles you have ridden on yours, I have a lot of work to do to try and wear them out. That's all good news to me!

I happy at my age (and I know there are many here) to have been able to have learned a new trick. It felt like learning to walk and ride a bicycle at the same time. I get the feeling from the many posts here, and the videos, that most all of us are in it because we are irrepressible youths at heart and refuse to grow old properly.  

I glad you like the Chao Yang. Maybe you could do a little piece in an up-coming video and talk about the feel of the new tire vs the old. And have Monika talk about how it changed the ride for her, since its her wheel now. If you have already done this, then shame on me for missing it! Like I said before, your videos have inspired me the most because you are having such a good time out there. I wanted some of that! 

[Mike Sacristan]

Yeah poor you! You had to take matters into your own hands haha. Like you say.. even several wheels are cheaper than X and much more fun than X.
Like you say... it is nice to discover something new that we can feel passionate about. And in a way reconnect with our youth.

Haha yeah I would love to see you wear them out. 
It will take years.

Thank you so much for the nice compliments. I really appreciate it. 

I am in the process of editing and rendering todays video. Sadly Monika couldn't come along.
Fredrik and I did some hill climbing and then go down a very nasty MTB trail. Scary stuff.
And as always we had a blast. I put my 16X on the charger as soon as I got home.
I was down to 45% battery after 45km. Started at 90%.
It's fully charged now so I have the option to ride... and I might just do so.

I was once convinced that the 16X was most special because of the CX tyre... but after downgrading to FW 1.05 what makes it most special is the zip.
Still... it is amazing that the CX can make the 16X so different from any other wheel (except the Z10).
One of those "try before you die" things you know.

[Unventor]

Nice posts @Scottie. It is so refreshing to read a new riders sharing their story. And very uplifting to how EUCs change their life. 

I think it is very clear how you have been bitten by the EUC bug. Clearly infected big time. 

Now it is also a strong testimony to different wheels have different feel and not really one is far superior to the other. It all depends what you seek. 

It is also very nice to read your story without any of the brand wars attached to it. I do hope you will share more stories in the future. 

Now you said you are getting your leg tone back. Maybe time to order a V11 and get a full body workout lift it 😉.

Anyway I let you know how it is to ride as I have a very sad excuse of a knee. So I know how bumps feels compared to when I were younger and healthier and didn't have any issues. 

Another side note on wheels. In the past week I have had all my 3 wheels out for a spin. You should see how my big fat smile was shining. Each and every one had something that made me go woooow. It is just yet my wheels are somewhat similar they are yet different still. This where my oldest baffled me most. KS18L. It has been forgotten a bit as I tended to use the others more. It is just a sweet allrounder (like JS18XL, but with less range). And with the bigger rim a more carefree ride. Now reading though your post above, I can't help feeling more excited about what high hopes I already have for the V11. Time will tell. But if I can just get half of my hopes from the wheel it will be amazing. 

[Scottie]

3 hours ago, Unventor said:

Nice posts @Scottie. It is so refreshing to read a new riders sharing their story. And very uplifting to how EUCs change their life. 

I think it is very clear how you have been bitten by the EUC bug. Clearly infected big time.

Thank you for the nice comments. Yes, it is too late for me. I don't even think therapy will help. I'll just have to ride it out ... pardon the pun.

3 hours ago, Unventor said:

Now it is also a strong testimony to different wheels have different feel and not really one is far superior to the other. It all depends what you seek. 

It is also very nice to read your story without any of the brand wars attached to it. I do hope you will share more stories in the future.

Yes, I agree to that. I prefer to give all brands an equal chance. And in my case, I have no experience with EUC brands, so they are all on the menu. Although I have noticed some models have had teething issues, but they seem to get fixed by an update for the most part.

It is also the same with cars and motorcycles for me. I have had all brands of each and have enjoyed the charms and differences of each. I have also had problems with all brands. No product is 100% perfect, except maybe the million dollar cars ... which I will only experience on the television.

I do plan on sharing some more stories. The next thing will probably be something about comparing the wheels from the newbie perspective and stuff that has happened with each, and hopefully it is not problems. All are running great right now. Right now I'm giving the MSP my full attention like I did with the others when they arrived. After the MSP honeymoon is over, I will have to revisit the others regularly. Although I do often return to the 16X because it taught me too ride. If I could tame that one ... the others are a piece of cake. 

3 hours ago, Unventor said:

Now you said you are getting your leg tone back. Maybe time to order a V11 and get a full body workout lift it 😉.

Anyway I let you know how it is to ride as I have a very sad excuse of a knee. So I know how bumps feels compared to when I were younger and healthier and didn't have any issues. 

Another side note on wheels. In the past week I have had all my 3 wheels out for a spin. You should see how my big fat smile was shining. Each and every one had something that made me go woooow. It is just yet my wheels are somewhat similar they are yet different still. This where my oldest baffled me most. KS18L. It has been forgotten a bit as I tended to use the others more. It is just a sweet allrounder (like JS18XL, but with less range). And with the bigger rim a more carefree ride. Now reading though your post above, I can't help feeling more excited about what high hopes I already have for the V11. Time will tell. But if I can just get half of my hopes from the wheel it will be amazing. 

I've got my eye on the suspension wheels, slightly favoring the V11 for the larger battery. But the King Song is prettier for mechanical nature. Eyes are drawn too fancy looking machinery. I will always go for more battery and more power just for the safety buffer and convenience of not having to charge very often. It will be nice to see these evaluated by the many YouTube guys. And we need to watch for teething issues. Maybe I'll go for one of them next spring. I've got a years worth of fun already! 

WARNING: Funny comparison coming ...  I think you'll agree that having the different wheels (or access to various models) is like having many friends. Different friends bring their own ideas and personalities to the friendship. We can even see and enjoy the differences in identical twins. Its the same with the wheels. Some days, wheel #1 will seem to be more fun than wheel #2, because of the mood of the day.

[Scottie]

A Bit of a Milestone Reached

Today the total kilometers of the wheels added up to over 1000 kilometers, 1075 (or 668 miles) to be exact. So in metric terms, that's crossing a threshold.

16X  352 km

Monster 432 km

18XL  178 km

MSP  113 km

The 16X (1st wheel) was the one that taught me to ride, and 'riding' for me just means up and going and able to navigate myself around town safely enough. Those were hard won kilometers ... learning The Brute. We are good buddies now and it treats me well. Looking back, what was all the fuss about?

The Monster is the cruising champ. Once the 16X got me going, I really wanted to explore and just rode the Monster all over the place around here, racking up the kilometers. The Monster requires a good bit of lean from me and is a bit tiring on the calves, but rewards with that famous stability which relaxes the rest of the body.

The 18XL came along and used its charming way to sweet talk me off the Monster for a while. That natural feeling wheel showed me its stability, agility, torque and range, in a great combination. Now I know why people call it the 'do-it-all' wheel. If I was only allowed one wheel, this would be the one.

The MSP came last and was the reward for learning to ride, or at least stay on! Maybe it is the experience building up, but for whatever reason, it has me going the fastest. It can get me up the short steep hills around here almost as easily as the 16X. Being locked in with that moderate pedal angle allows for some easy, more confident maneuvering. I have the least kilometers on it but feel like I can ride it the best, except for free mounting. The pedal angle is messing me up a bit there. I can mount and ride away every time, just not as pretty as the others. So far it is the off road champ for me because of the combination of the 18 X 3.0 CST tire and the 2500 watt motor torque.

I have not been using the phone apps to watch speeds. So far I just use the apps to check the battery charge. I cannot even come close to taking any of the batteries to the limit yet as far as range is concerned. I just go for a couple hours at a time and enjoy being out and about, which was my main reason for learning to ride.

It will be hard for me to settle in to one wheel. I fortunately discovered that I can ride like them all, and like them all ... just for the variety. The 16X is like a tasmanian devil that befriended me after long negotiation. The Monster is like the Road Runner (more like an ostrich) that cooperates to put the kilometers behind me. The 18XL would be a horse that can read my mind. The MSP is that same horse on steroids!

I still feel like a beginner, and will be one for a while, but at the same time have to acknowledge that I have crossed into something bigger, like that little emoji guy up there with the diploma hat. Back during the negotiations with the 16X, I did not think it was going to happen.

[Unventor]

@Scottie I think that is a pretty spot on rider report. and deserve an AMEN....

I can't help thinking the KS16X as the ugly little bulldog you know it is tons of fun, but it isn't build for a hound dog racetrack. But can you have fun with it ohh yes. Is it the best wheel? properly not, but it is still fun. Can you do things on the KS16X that no other can't do, no properly not, but it does it easier ...except speed. 

So that family  SUV utility car ehh... wheel KS18XL. It is so easy to live with but it isn't any thing special except be one of the very best balanced wheel I know of if not the best in this regard.. I were so close to selling my KS18L but have decided against it. I have the V11 incoming so at first glance it should be obsolete. But when we have winter time, would I then ride a V11 in show/salt/sand/gravel/ice...and how would this wear the suspension system? So right now the plan is to keep it and mount studs on it to becoming a dedicated winter wheel.

I read about the Gotway wheel, but I don't ride them. (I don't view this as missing out, as speed isn't my thing. it is a personally choice).

So tidying this up  and going back to topic. Question is if km/miles is the right definition to progress as rider (only) or if long enough ride time/distance on multiply wheel will give you a much better feel on what you can do on an EUC and where that can take you. Both literally and metaphorical as a rider. This is where @ShanesPlanet question actually become interesting on a different thread. When do you progress passed rookie....

But what I really love about your posts @Scottie is they tell the tale of wheel diversity and that not one rule them all but each and every one have a story to tell and experience. And when you get back to it after reading/riding other books/wheels it add flavor to that story. I think many can only envy you and @Marty Backe that. 

[Scottie]

4 hours ago, Unventor said:

@Scottie I think that is a pretty spot on rider report. and deserve an AMEN....

So tidying this up  and going back to topic. Question is if km/miles is the right definition to progress as rider (only) or if long enough ride time/distance on multiply wheel will give you a much better feel on what you can do on an EUC and where that can take you. Both literally and metaphorical as a rider. This is where @ShanesPlanet question actually become interesting on a different thread. When do you progress passed rookie....

@Unventor Thank you for the AMEN!

In response to this, I don't believe it is just a question of km/miles, but riding distance is still one part of it, along with many other things. I will take an example to an extreme just give an idea of my thinking here. Here goes; if someone rode their EUC in a straight line (no turning, stopping, starting, accelerating, braking, etc.) for 1000 km (or any other distance you prefer) on a smooth surface with nobody ever getting in his way and he did not get in their way, then he would not get much experience for his brain or body for his 1000 km of riding. He would still be a rookie.

For the other extreme example, imagine that he rarely got to ride a straight line because he was constantly following winding, bumpy, slippery paths up and down steep hills with people and things popping up in front of him that he had to dodge. And imagine he did not get to keep riding the same wheel all the time. This guy would have gained a lot of experience for his 1000 km. If he did all that safely, I would not label him a "rookie" anymore because his basic skills are safe and sound now. He may not be a "pro/advanced/expert" rider though because there are more than just two classification. He is somewhere in between.

In reality, our 1000 km worth of riding falls somewhere between these two extreme examples, not that easy and not that hard. It is the type of riding and learning that happened during those kilometers. And @ShanesPlanet says we progress at different rates... no argument there. So we cannot use km/miles alone to say that a rider is not a "horrible newbie", or just a regular newbie, or an expert, because some riders will have gotten a lot of experience and learning out of their 1000 km, and others very little.

For example, we see @Mike Sacristan doing lots of interesting and fun things in his videos to give himself and his friends many riding experiences. 1000 km of riding with Mike would give lots of valuable experience. One of the things that he does, and asks his friends to do, is swap wheels often because riding different wheels brings the different flavors. It educates the reflexes to respond and adapt. They are experimenting with different tire pressures, etc. So riding multiple wheels is a good thing, or even safely experimenting with one wheel is a learning experience. An interesting thing Mike said in a recent video was that he knew of riders that were expertly flying around the streets and paved trails at 50 kph. But when they go off road, they sh*t their pants at 10 kph. Sure they will get better off road as they continue. But for the moment they are fish out of water. I would not call them "total rookies" though.

1000 km is not a magic number for anything. It is just a number like any number, but a nice round number. It was like saying I turned over 100,000 miles in my car today. It is like a women's obsession with dates. They are big on anniversaries, but in the end it is just a date (but don't tell them that if you know whats good for you ).

We will all remain rookies for some EUC skills, still learning, humbled, made to feel like a mere humans because of something, or someone better than ourselves (NYC riders) as @travsformation just mentioned in that other thread. Someone will always be better than us, and there is always more to learn.

I believe there are more than just "rookie / newbie" and "pro / advanced / experienced". There are all the shades of grey between the best and worst riders, the same as for anything else. @ShanesPlanet asked, "At what point did you finally feel confident in calling yourself anything other than a horrible newbie?" For me, the 1000 km just happens to be a coincidence with me feeling that I'm not a "horrible newbie" anymore. I'm calling myself a fairly good newbie rider now, maybe even something at the lower end of the average rider scale, because I can ride safely at my slow cruising speed, deal with pavement irregularities, and not scare anyone. And I can ride a 16X!

Sorry to use up so many words here. Skip over it if it hurts your eyes. 

Edited May 6, 2020 by Scottie

[Unventor]

I find it interesting reading @Scottie. Btw I had the pleasure to visit @Mike Sacristan and his wife last autumn. During 2 days we rode just about 80km. At that point I had only ridden my KS16X for about 100km (I got it a week before going to Stockholm).

We did all kind of riding when I were there. Daytime/nighttime/bmx track/forest and mountain trails/downtown and suburban areas too. 

Playing going uphill and downhill. I can say I am not half the rider of Mike nor even a quarter of Petra. I am simply nor fit or flexible enough. So they might had a little boring times. But I rarely ride so fast in unfamiliar areas and definitely not at night time in dark in unknown paths. At the time I were still getting to terms of follow my directions not the surface on the KS16X.

I used to put a new challenge to myself for the first year or so every time I stepped up on my wheel. It could be anything like carving more. Or riding longer in a day. Or longer without a break or faster or new areas.

I really wished this had happend 25 years ago. But it didn't so now I make the most of it. Now I have some top line goals set for this summer season. These are very tuff for me. Simple to others. 

1-- Seated riding. Right now I don't have leg/knee strength to stand up from seated so obtaining control and balance is very far off.

2-- Reverse riding. I have not control of this despite testing to switch direction.

3-- Ambidex start/stop. I can do it on my dominant leg but that is my bad knee. The other leg don't have the strength combined with control.

I doubt I get it all done. But goals are set to challenge not to be easy. Right now I am waiting for a little warmer weather and to find a good place to practice. I am likely to start out in basement first. And to regain leg strength by using my exercise cycle together with my balance foam block.

Ohh and hopefully I get an new test and ride challenge in August. When I hope to get my V11. I am pretty sure that suspension will give me some extra goals to go for. 

The big plan is to kickstart this on the upcoming weekend. I might have a few funny videos coming from this. 

Note: I didn't mean to hijack your thread but your posts inspired me to share why I found your post great readings. 

Edited May 6, 2020 by Unventor

[Scottie]

2 hours ago, Unventor said:

Note: I didn't mean to hijack your thread but your posts inspired me to share why I found your post great readings. 

No worries. I was following the "Rookie" thread too. It plays well into my current riding situation.

[Scottie]

11 hours ago, Unventor said:

I find it interesting reading @Scottie. Btw I had the pleasure to visit @Mike Sacristan and his wife last autumn. During 2 days we rode just about 80km. At that point I had only ridden my KS16X for about 100km (I got it a week before going to Stockholm).

We did all kind of riding when I were there. Daytime/nighttime/bmx track/forest and mountain trails/downtown and suburban areas too. 

Playing going uphill and downhill. I can say I am not half the rider of Mike nor even a quarter of Petra. I am simply nor fit or flexible enough. So they might had a little boring times. But I rarely ride so fast in unfamiliar areas and definitely not at night time in dark in unknown paths. At the time I were still getting to terms of follow my directions not the surface on the KS16X.

Do you remember if @Mike Sacristan made a YouTube video of your rides? If so, can you post the link? I would like to see that one. Well, I've probably already seen it, but now would want to see it again. Riding with Mike and his crew sure would be a special thing. I bet you'll remember that riding for a long, long time. 

 

12 hours ago, Unventor said:

I used to put a new challenge to myself for the first year or so every time I stepped up on my wheel. It could be anything like carving more. Or riding longer in a day. Or longer without a break or faster or new areas.

I really wished this had happend 25 years ago. But it didn't so now I make the most of it. Now I have some top line goals set for this summer season. These are very tuff for me. Simple to others. 

1-- Seated riding. Right now I don't have leg/knee strength to stand up from seated so obtaining control and balance is very far off.

2-- Reverse riding. I have not control of this despite testing to switch direction.

3-- Ambidex start/stop. I can do it on my dominant leg but that is my bad knee. The other leg don't have the strength combined with control.

I doubt I get it all done. But goals are set to challenge not to be easy.

A new challenge for every ride in the beginning; I will bet that many riders do the same thing. I am doing the same as you said, stretching my envelope and adding a new little something on every ride. These days I'm adding grass and gravel riding regularly to improve the different terrain skills. It only makes sense that we all go through that in the early times. An to some degree, even the top riders must still do that. But they are practicing to be like FANTOMAS! I will keep my dreams within reach.  

Yes, it would have been nice to have had these things in our younger days. But we still had our fun with the old school stuff. I was water skiing, and bicycle riding 40 miles (64 km) before breakfast back in the day. But now, like you, I try to make the most of the good times that we are still able to have. I read on the eWheels website that there is a 74 year old that started riding these. He said this is the most fun an old guy can have! I use him as my example. That means I still have 14 years of good times ahead. Are their any 80 year old people out there doing this? 

 

13 hours ago, Unventor said:

Ohh and hopefully I get an new test and ride challenge in August. When I hope to get my V11. I am pretty sure that suspension will give me some extra goals to go for.

I'm sure the suspension wheel will make life easier on the knee, and add some more possibilities. The young guys will be jumping higher than ever, and barreling down more steps.

[Unventor]

46 minutes ago, Scottie said:

Do you remember if @Mike Sacristan made a YouTube video of your rides? If so, can you post the link? I would like to see that one. Well, I've probably already seen it, but now would want to see it again. Riding with Mike and his crew sure would be a special thing. I bet you'll remember that riding for a long, long time. 

 

[Mike Sacristan]

Yeah @Unventor and I did quite a lot of riding when he was here. Good fun!
Trying all kinds of different stuff, comparing techniques and so on.

Riding with others is good for inspiration.
We are all rookies in the sense that we usually are only good at the things we practice or do most.

Lately I have spent more time (maaaaany hours) doing technical off-roading on the 16X.
Some people also tend to have a knack for certain things.

Let's look at some riders.

Mathias rides an MSX and is a street rider. He jumped off his wheel going up a curb.
He did not want to learn seated riding. Now he loves it. He loves going fast and he also learned to like off-road which is dirt.
He is afraid of hills (both up and down).

Monika rides an MSX and is a street rider. She is afraid of skate parks. I have a 30 minute video of her literally doing nothing.
She does not like technical off-road and she bails at hill climbing. She is okay on easy off-road and she has no fear or respect for accidents. Which means that she will turn aggressively on gravel and dirt because you know.. she is a dancer and thus an artistic person and they don't know about physics.

Fredrik is very skilled at skate parks. He has learned technical off-road and hill climbing. There is a slight gap in our skill and considering I have a 18 month head start as well as +15000km the gap should be bigger. He has a background of skateboarding and he is rather fearless except when it comes to high speed riding. Then he is cautious. It would be fun to see him ride with Monika.

Tobias loves getting his Nik+ to 60kmh. He does not like off-road, will not touch a skate park or hills. 

All of them have learned or are learning to ride backwards.

Petra is afraid of skate parks. She has chopped up her Tesla now to make more clearance in the front. #noexcuses

Thomas is very afraid of skate parks but not afraid of pushing his OG 84v MSX to 58kmh.

Together we all learn from each other. Sympathise with each other. Understand each other and ourselves better.

I have made all the mistakes one can make and learned the slow and hard way. Learning this way also gives us something special which I call "our own process".

It took me 6 months to learn a handstand. It would take me less than 6 hours to teach someone else how to do one (provided they fullfil the physical requirements).

 

Thanks for sharing your awesome experiences @Scottie and for this great thread!