Segway Z10 Questions

[Patton250]

21 minutes ago, houseofjob said:

@Patton250 late to the party here, but in general, every maneuver on the Z is more like you turn and pivot harder than the Z itself does. In the end, the result becomes the same as the thinner tired EUC's if you position your body well enough.

And yeah, 15 psi is way too low IMHO for a remotely average adult male bodyweight. You don't want to have to change the motor from a dented rim on the Z if you can help it, as the Z is one of the most PITA wheels to teardown.

How am I going to dent the rim??? By jumping? It’s soooooo comfortable at 15 PSI and it doesn’t jerk as hard. 

[Marty Backe]

2 minutes ago, Patton250 said:

How am I going to dent the rim??? By jumping? It’s soooooo comfortable at 15 PSI and it doesn’t jerk as hard. 

At 15-psi, just hitting a 1-inch curb at speed could do. Jumping usually doesn't cause the bent rims. It's running into a hard edge that does it; curb transitions, pot holes, etc.

[Patton250]

39 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

At 15-psi, just hitting a 1-inch curb at speed could do. Jumping usually doesn't cause the bent rims. It's running into a hard edge that does it; curb transitions, pot holes, etc.

Well I’m bummed out then. I’m not sure I can enjoy this wheel at 30psi 

[Marty Backe]

22 minutes ago, Patton250 said:

Well I’m bummed out then. I’m not sure I can enjoy this wheel at 30psi 

There's nothing to be bummed about. I ride however I like and my enjoyment is not dependent on how other people ride their wheels.

Whatever makes you happy, go with it.

[Patton250]

53 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

There's nothing to be bummed about. I ride however I like and my enjoyment is not dependent on how other people ride their wheels.

Whatever makes you happy, go with it.

Yeah but I really don’t want to dent the rim. I believe you when you say it’s easy to do at 15 psi. That’s all. I really appreciate your input. 

[Planemo]

5 hours ago, Patton250 said:

Well I’m bummed out then. I’m not sure I can enjoy this wheel at 30psi 

There is a huge difference between running a Nikola at 15psi and a Z at 15psi. Nikola - no way, but the Z - its tubeless tyre is massively tougher than a tubed bicycle tyre.

I think you would have to be really going some to cause damage with a Z at 15psi. Dont forget Chooch rode at 10 or less, and its not like he rode like a fairy. Admittedly I dont recall seeing him hitting the edges of sharp curbs at speed either but then...do you?

[giggidditygiggiddity]

Just played with ali shipping, seems like the price is dropping a bit? apx 1500ish with free UPS shipping to burgerland, (previously was near 1800 a week ago).  I'm guessing they want to offload surplus, for possible new or upgraded model end of year, I'm just speculating of course, don't want to think of the worst case scenario...

Edited July 15, 2019 by giggidditygiggiddity

[Mike Sacristan]

6 hours ago, Patton250 said:

Yeah but I really don’t want to dent the rim. I believe you when you say it’s easy to do at 15 psi. That’s all. I really appreciate your input. 

You don't have to dent the rim. You just have to ride accordingly.

I ride my MSX at 19 PSI. I have had it as low as 15 PSI. At 15 PSI I lost some range. At 19 PSI it's fine.
I weigh 64kg. I've had 90kg+ riders on it at 19PSI. It was fine. But I wouldn't have liked to see them ride up a curb.

I tried a V10 the other day at 23 PSI and it was great.

In the end it depends on how you are willing to ride, how much you weigh, etc.

 

[Patton250]

5 hours ago, Planemo said:

There is a huge difference between running a Nikola at 15psi and a Z at 15psi. Nikola - no way, but the Z - its tubeless tyre is massively tougher than a tubed bicycle tyre.

I think you would have to be really going some to cause damage with a Z at 15psi. Dont forget Chooch rode at 10 or less, and its not like he rode like a fairy. Admittedly I dont recall seeing him hitting the edges of sharp curbs at speed either but then...do you?

Wow great point!!!!  I didn’t know he ran at 10 psi. You are right that guy is a maniac (In a good way).  He was the first person I ever saw doing videos with EUC’s.  He motivated me to get my first one.  If he safe at 10 psi I’ll be fine at 15 psi. Thank you for that. 

[Patton250]

3 hours ago, Mike Sacristan said:

You don't have to dent the rim. You just have to ride accordingly.

I ride my MSX at 19 PSI. I have had it as low as 15 PSI. At 15 PSI I lost some range. At 19 PSI it's fine.
I weigh 64kg. I've had 90kg+ riders on it at 19PSI. It was fine. But I wouldn't have liked to see them ride up a curb.

I tried a V10 the other day at 23 PSI and it was great.

In the end it depends on how you are willing to ride, how much you weigh, etc.

 

 Well I am 72 Kg.  I had to use a converter app for that. Lol  thanks for you input my friend. I think @Marty Backe made me paranoid  :-) 

 I didn’t even know about adjusting tire pressure until I came here and lowering the tire pressure on my wheels has made all the difference in the world for enjoyability for me.  Especially the Z10 and Nikola.  Actually since I’ve gotten these two wheels I don’t even like my KS16S or 18XL anymore. Lol. I’ll see how I like the MSX next weekend and the 16X at the end of the month. 

[Planemo]

41 minutes ago, Patton250 said:

  If he safe at 10 psi I’ll be fine at 15 psi. Thank you for that. 

No problem.

In fact, your own findings re pressures has actually made me reconsider the issue.

Up till now I had always assumed that lower pressures means more tramlining simply due to a wider contact patch, and that higher pressures (narrower contact patch) would reduce it, especially given that narrower tyres on other eucs dont suffer like the Z does.

I am actually wondering whether it is the other way around - higher pressure on the Z increases tramlining. Potentially it could, as the tyre stiffness will have far less 'give' when encountering irregularities. For sure, a tubeless Z at 35psi will have a much stiffer tyre than a 2.25" tubed tyre at the same pressure.

Truth be told I havent done enough testing myself. When I tried it at 30+ psi I found the ride was so hard and became so much more twitchy that I really didnt spend that much time on it to see how it dealt specifically with tramlining. I think I just came to the assumption that it must have been better when there is less contact patch width but you have made me rethink that as your findings are the opposite.

Neither have I spent much time on it at less than 20, as I feel quite happy on it at that. Maybe I should try 10~15 for a good period of time just to confirm if it is indeed better or not, or it could be compared fairly quickly if I can find a suitable test piece of pavement. Someone on the forum posted a picture some time back of a section of pavement they were really struggling with on their Z. It looked horrendous and would be the perfect test bed for different pressures. I cant seem to find the thread now though. It had not only numerous undulations/ridges in the direction of travel but also quite a severe camber. A lot for a Z rider to deal with for sure.

In any event, 20 seems good for me but it would be nice to definitively confirm whether tramlining (not any other handling trait) on the Z increases or decreases with pressure.

 

[Patton250]

28 minutes ago, Planemo said:

No problem.

In fact, your own findings re pressures has actually made me reconsider the issue.

Up till now I had always assumed that lower pressures means more tramlining simply due to a wider contact patch, and that higher pressures (narrower contact patch) would reduce it, especially given that narrower tyres on other eucs dont suffer like the Z does.

I am actually wondering whether it is the other way around - higher pressure on the Z increases tramlining. Potentially it could, as the tyre stiffness will have far less 'give' when encountering irregularities. For sure, a tubeless Z at 35psi will have a much stiffer tyre than a 2.25" tubed tyre at the same pressure.

Truth be told I havent done enough testing myself. When I tried it at 30+ psi I found the ride was so hard and became so much more twitchy that I really didnt spend that much time on it to see how it dealt specifically with tramlining. I think I just came to the assumption that it must have been better when there is less contact patch width but you have made me rethink that as your findings are the opposite.

Neither have I spent much time on it at less than 20, as I feel quite happy on it at that. Maybe I should try 10~15 for a good period of time just to confirm if it is indeed better or not, or it could be compared fairly quickly if I can find a suitable test piece of pavement. Someone on the forum posted a picture some time back of a section of pavement they were really struggling with on their Z. It looked horrendous and would be the perfect test bed for different pressures. I cant seem to find the thread now though. It had not only numerous undulations/ridges in the direction of travel but also quite a severe camber. A lot for a Z rider to deal with for sure.

In any event, 20 seems good for me but it would be nice to definitively confirm whether tramlining (not any other handling trait) on the Z increases or decreases with pressure.

 

The difference in tramlining between 20psi and 15psi was massive. It made me go from not particularly like the Z to really liking it. I think I’ll try 10psi too. I’ll report back when I do. 

[Mike Sacristan]

2 hours ago, Patton250 said:

 Well I am 72 Kg.  I had to use a converter app for that. Lol  thanks for you input my friend. I think @Marty Backe made me paranoid  :-) 

 I didn’t even know about adjusting tire pressure until I came here and lowering the tire pressure on my wheels has made all the difference in the world for enjoyability for me.  Especially the Z10 and Nikola.  Actually since I’ve gotten these two wheels I don’t even like my KS16S or 18XL anymore. Lol. I’ll see how I like the MSX next weekend and the 16X at the end of the month. 

That's quite a collection of wheels!

I've tried the 16S and it was a nice fun nimble ride. Tried the 18XL and it was very comfortable as well. The MSX is quite a beast though and can require a bit of leaning at lower PSI and high speed.

Enjoying the ride is the most important part. Once I was careless when riding the MSX (I was filming and talking into my GoPro) and I hit a pretty big hole. It made a terrible sound but at 19 PSI the tire hardly compresses. It was just me being overly anxious. If I ride with 19 PSI (which I prefer) then I just ride accordingly. Which means I try not to ram curbs straight on. I did try jumping with my MSX though... I jumped, the MSX stay put. Luckily I landed back on it quite nicely.

The MSX does tramline quite a bit at 19 PSI though. However at 30 it launches me into space when I hit bumps and irregularities at speed.
Perhaps I will try something in between. Or something lower.  Riding seated at 30 PSI is hell though as it makes the MSX a bit more nervous feeling.

I also ride my hardtail mountainbike with low pressure. I dented the rim once but it was because of extreme carelessness from my side. It never happened again.

 

[Planemo]

54 minutes ago, Patton250 said:

The difference in tramlining between 20psi and 15psi was massive. It made me go from not particularly like the Z to really liking it. I think I’ll try 10psi too. I’ll report back when I do. 

Please do. I would be interested.

In the meantime I will see if I can find somewhere to compare pressures as well. Its interesting to hear you say the difference between 15 and 20 was massive. If thats the case I may go lower although I am a bit heavier than you.

[Marty Backe]

13 hours ago, Patton250 said:

 Well I am 72 Kg.  I had to use a converter app for that. Lol  thanks for you input my friend. I think @Marty Backe made me paranoid  :-) 

 I didn’t even know about adjusting tire pressure until I came here and lowering the tire pressure on my wheels has made all the difference in the world for enjoyability for me.  Especially the Z10 and Nikola.  Actually since I’ve gotten these two wheels I don’t even like my KS16S or 18XL anymore. Lol. I’ll see how I like the MSX next weekend and the 16X at the end of the month. 

Be sure to ask @Mike Sacristan his riding weight. Talking PSI is absolutely meaningless without knowing the weights. I always tell people my riding weight is ~175-pounds. And weigh yourself just before you get on the wheel. Sometimes we lie to ourselves, going with what we like to think that we weigh 

[Mike Sacristan]

23 hours ago, Mike Sacristan said:

I ride my MSX at 19 PSI. I have had it as low as 15 PSI. At 15 PSI I lost some range. At 19 PSI it's fine.
I weigh 64kg. I've had 90kg+ riders on it at 19PSI. It was fine. But I wouldn't have liked to see them ride up a curb.

 

6 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

Be sure to ask @Mike Sacristan his riding weight. Talking PSI is absolutely meaningless without knowing the weights. I always tell people my riding weight is ~175-pounds. And weigh yourself just before you get on the wheel. Sometimes we lie to ourselves, going with what we like to think that we weigh 

Good catch. Some people have up to 50 pounds of gear on them. My riding weight is at most 5 pounds over my body weight unless it's winter. Sometimes I will go shopping though and have 10 pounds of groceries with me.

@Patton250 if you haven't seen this link.

https://www.ewheels.com/guide-tires-appropriate-pressures-electric-unicycle/

 

[ir_fuel]

1 hour ago, Mike Sacristan said:

Some people have up to 50 pounds of gear on them

They use EUC's in the army now? 

[Marty Backe]

5 hours ago, ir_fuel said:

They use EUC's in the army now? 

I believe he's making fun of me 

[Patton250]

Ok so after putting several hundred miles on this thing I can definitely tell you A. I love it and B. Just like many of you said it’s remarkably different than any other wheel.   So different that if I jump on my Nikola for a half hour and then get on the Z10  i’m literally takes me up a couple of minutes to reprogram my brain on how to ride it.  In fact that first couple of minutes I hate it.  Once my brain adjusts I go back to loving it.  I’ve settled in at 17 psi and that provides a comfortable ride for me but it still jerks pretty good when traveling on uneven pavement.  I would say I am very pleased I bought this wheel. I’m sure there will never be another one like it. All the rest of my wheels seem to be very similar in how they ride.  I appreciate everyone’s input on this thread. It was very helpful in making my decision to buy it and also you guys were very accurate describing it. 

 

[Patton250]

So will the Z10 work with wheel log or darkness bot?

[fbhb]

1 hour ago, Patton250 said:

So will the Z10 work with wheel log or darkness bot?

I'm an Android user, so I know for sure it works with WheelLog.  Can't speak for Darknessbot, as that is IOS but I'm sure someone else will chime in!