MSX handling second day

[Nick McCutcheon]

@Cracka I’m sure @Flyboy10 would be able to help out, but I’d be down to meet up and see what’s going on. I’ve had a bit more experience on the MSX now, since I helped some of my wheel buddies with large pedal mod. And I ride my ACM2 daily/have done a complete reassembly of it, so I’m no stranger to weird GotWay behaviors 

[Mike Sacristan]

1 hour ago, stephen said:

Thanks for the great video ,i hope it helps @Cracka dipping problem , hope you didn't mind the post i actually thought it would help in this thread,, credit to you @Mike Sacristan👍

I don't mind at all! I'm the one thanking you Stephen! I was in a hurry to upload my vids before Zumba. Then after Zumba I did some outdoor exercise and then I got some McDonalds haha. So you saved me the hassle and also if you thought the vid was post-worthy then I even see that as a compliment.

@Cracka I know how terrible it feels to receive a new product and overanalyse the hell out of it. Try my tests that I wrote further up and quoted below and let us know the results. Don't worry about being a snowflake if we weren't snowflakes we wouldn't be riding electric unicycles. 

Quoted below:

7 hours ago, Mike Sacristan said:

I believe the MSX side to side angle calibration can be double checked by observing the rear turning lights. Grab the trolley and walk behind it while turning the wheel and watch the turning lights.

Regarding the actual dipping, turn your wheel on and grab it by the handle. Lean it almost all the way to the side so your pedal is almost touching the floor. Now push forward. If your pedal is level at zero it should stay at zero. Now repeat the process carefully using the trolley handle. Be very careful because since you are applying pressure from another angle the wheel will want to accelerate and run away from you as it leans more to the side.

 

[Cracka]

11 hours ago, Mike Sacristan said:

I believe the MSX side to side angle calibration can be double checked by observing the rear turning lights. Grab the trolley and walk behind it while turning the wheel and watch the turning lights.

Regarding the actual dipping, turn your wheel on and grab it by the handle. Lean it almost all the way to the side so your pedal is almost touching the floor. Now push forward. If your pedal is level at zero it should stay at zero. Now repeat the process carefully using the trolley handle. Be very careful because since you are applying pressure from another angle the wheel will want to accelerate and run away from you as it leans more to the side. I get no dipping or angle change no matter what I do and no matter which mode i'm in but it "feels" like a dip because of the acceleration out of a deep lean. I can tilt the MSX all the way to the side so that the edge of my pedal is flush with the floor.

64kg rider.
84v 1600wh MSX.
Pedals on hard mode and zero angle.

Thanks i will try that. Your video dId help me turn sharper by rotating  my shoulders more. I'm going on a group ride this weekend with more experienced Riders to see what they think.

[Mike Sacristan]

4 hours ago, Cracka said:

Thanks i will try that. Your video dId help me turn sharper by rotating  my shoulders more. I'm going on a group ride this weekend with more experienced Riders to see what they think.

Yeah buddy! Fitness!

[stephen]

@Cracka been for a ride today ,i don't really take notice of how i turn so i watched my feet , I've done small turns medium turns and large turns  , slow and fast and to my surprise it dips ,,,,allot lol ,, i do put weight on different parts of my feet though and usually i tend to through my shoulders into a turn or just lean and turn the hips.. but just turning yes it dips😊

I'd try to forget about the dip tbh you'll find your own way of turning and will become so natural you'll soon forget ,

I'd say there's nothing wrong with your wheel 👍👍

Edited June 5, 2019 by stephen

[Mike Sacristan]

23 minutes ago, stephen said:

@Cracka been for a ride today ,i don't really take notice of how i turn so i watched my feet , I've done small turns medium turns and large turns  , slow and fast and to my surprise it dips ,,,,allot lol ,, i do put weight on different parts of my feet though and usually i tend to through my shoulders into a turn or just lean and turn the hips.. but just turning yes it dips😊

I'd try to forget about the dip tbh you'll find your own way of turning and will become so natural you'll soon forget ,

I'd say there's nothing wrong with your wheel 👍👍

Thanks for testing. Together we will become less insane. How does it behave if you lean it when holding the handle and trolley handle?

[Cracka]

Haven't tried it yet I'll get back when I do

[Cracka]

31 minutes ago, stephen said:

@Cracka been for a ride today ,i don't really take notice of how i turn so i watched my feet , I've done small turns medium turns and large turns  , slow and fast and to my surprise it dips ,,,,allot lol ,, i do put weight on different parts of my feet though and usually i tend to through my shoulders into a turn or just lean and turn the hips.. but just turning yes it dips😊

I'd try to forget about the dip tbh you'll find your own way of turning and will become so natural you'll soon forget ,

I'd say there's nothing wrong with your wheel 👍👍

Thanks for testing it out that makes me feel a little better. 

[stephen]

59 minutes ago, Mike Sacristan said:

Thanks for testing. Together we will become less insane. How does it behave if you lean it when holding the handle and trolley handle?

I didn't do that test, I'll try it tomorrow did 33 miles today be doing it again tomorrow, not ridden for a few days but by did i enjoy my ride i just need a bigger battery 20-28 mph and 35% left ..30 miles is like nipping to the shops, in now looking at the new monster 2400wh

[Rainu]

56 minutes ago, Cracka said:

Thanks for testing it out that makes me feel a little better. 

I note the exactly same pedal dip on my msx 84, in hard mode too. I can live with it.

Edited June 5, 2019 by Rainu

[Mike Sacristan]

1 hour ago, stephen said:

I didn't do that test, I'll try it tomorrow did 33 miles today be doing it again tomorrow, not ridden for a few days but by did i enjoy my ride i just need a bigger battery 20-28 mph and 35% left ..30 miles is like nipping to the shops, in now looking at the new monster 2400wh

Damn you guys ride fast! Yes the monster 2400 is attractive for several reasons. Apparently more comfortable high cruising speed as well as crazy battery. For me the thrills start at around 20mph. 

[andrew900nyc]

Hey @Cracka, any updates on your pedal dip situation? I've had three rides on my new MSX and I'm noticing the exact same kind of pedal dip that you are experiencing. I'm a new rider, too. I went the other way than you. The first wheel I purchased was the MTen3 and then I bought an MSX. I put about 30 km on the MTen3 so far. I chose the MTen3 and the MSX because I heard from several riders that they are at the opposite ends of the spectrum. I am extremely happy with my decision to get these two wheels. The MTen3 is real zippy and highly maneuverable, but not so comfortable to ride at high speeds (I haven't ridden it above 30 kph yet). I don't notice any pedal dip at all on my MTen3, but it's very pronounced on my MSX. I'd be interested to hear if you figured out a way to minimize the pedal dip on your MSX or did you just get used to it, so it's no longer an issue for you?

[Cracka]

From what i found out it's normal and wheels with different firmware versions may act differently. There is no way to change it so I just ride and try not to think about it, put a 150 mIles on it so far and mostly really like this wheel especially offrode.I tried a monster and it does the same thing. 

[andrew900nyc]

On 6/25/2019 at 11:21 PM, Cracka said:

From what i found out it's normal and wheels with different firmware versions may act differently. There is no way to change it so I just ride and try not to think about it, put a 150 mIles on it so far and mostly really like this wheel especially offrode.I tried a monster and it does the same thing. 

That's what I figured. I haven't put many miles on my MSX yet, so I'm still finding it fairly annoying. I'm looking forward to putting more miles on it and reaching the doesn't-bother-me-at-all stage. That's interesting that several wheel have this quirk.

[Smoother]

My only 2 cents in this discussion.

There is calibration, and there is correctly executed calibration.  To correctly calibrate a wheel it must be 100% vertical in the left and right plane.  Front and back is your choice, but side to side is critical.  When I read people saying calibration didn't work I suspect an incorrect procedure.  Eye-balling it is not good enough. leaning it against something is not good enough.  Get a quality level-reading device (physical or App) and get the left/right spot on.  A warning; not all apps or actual spirit levels are accurate.  I used to be in the building trade and the work site was littered with levels that weren't.  We knew which ones they were, and used them for marking straight lines etc, but not to ascertain a level on anything; for that we used one of the good levels. My point don't assume all levels are level.  Verify first.

I've had all sorts of pedal dipping in the past; some stuff that would actually force me to step off in the middle of a turn,  and a good calibration fixed all of them every time, but a bad calibration didn't.  My current wheel (KS16S) hasn't been calibrated for over a year and I ride several times a week  The board's even been out of the wheel, shipped to Poland, had some work done on it, shipped back, re-installed, with no calibration needed.  Absolutely no unwanted pedal dipping or other unusual behavior in any ride mode.

 

PS After making that last statement about ride modes I thought I better confirm that with a ride, so I did.  All three modes, no unusual dipping in corners.  I even switched between all modes mid-corner, several times, and there was ZERO unusual behavior.

Do not settle for dipping pedals, there is a solution (unless your gyro has a problem, but I have no way of knowing how one checks that.)

Edited June 30, 2019 by Smoother

[meepmeepmayer]

Eyeballing worked for me, but trying this can't hurt!

Maybe also an intentionally very shitty calibration (sideways a lot) before doing a clean one. Anything to coax the sensor into behaving.

Worst case, if you replace the board, you've got a new sensor to play with. Not ideal, but still better than dipping.

[Smoother]

On 6/28/2019 at 3:10 PM, meepmeepmayer said:

Eyeballing worked for me, but trying this can't hurt!

Maybe also an intentionally very shitty calibration (sideways a lot) before doing a clean one. Anything to coax the sensor into behaving.

Worst case, if you replace the board, you've got a new sensor to play with. Not ideal, but still better than dipping.

Even a broken clock is correct twice a day, so yeah one can get lucky with a good eyeballing procedure, but for those who it didn't work, they can repeat the eyeball version and hope, or whip out a level and know.  I don't trust my eyes to determine level, they have proven wrong in the past, repeatedly.

Edited June 30, 2019 by Smoother

[andrew900nyc]

On 6/28/2019 at 7:21 AM, Smoother said:

There is calibration, and there is correctly executed calibration.  To correctly calibrate a wheel it must be 100% vertical in the left and right plane.  Front and back is your choice, but side to side is critical.  When I read people saying calibration didn't work I suspect an incorrect procedure.  Eye-balling it is not good enough. leaning it against something is not good enough.  Get a quality level-reading device (physical or App) and get the left/right spot on.  A warning; not all apps or actual spirit levels are accurate.  I used to be in the building trade and the work site was littered with levels that weren't.  We knew which ones they were, and used them for marking straight lines etc, but not to ascertain a level on anything; for that we used one of the good levels. My point don't assume all levels are level.  Verify first.

I've had all sorts of pedal dipping in the past; some stuff that would actually force me to step off in the middle of a turn,  and a good calibration fixed all of them every time, but a bad calibration didn't.  My current wheel (KS16S) hasn't been calibrated for over a year and I ride several times a week  The board's even been out of the wheel, shipped to Poland, had some work done on it, shipped back, re-installed, with no calibration needed.  Absolutely no unwanted pedal dipping or other unusual behavior in any ride mode.

PS After making that last statement about ride modes I thought I better confirm that with a ride, so I did.  All three modes, no unusual dipping in corners.  I even switched between all modes mid-corner, several times, and there was ZERO unusual behavior.

Do not settle for dipping pedals, there is a solution (unless your gyro has a problem, but I have no way of knowing how one checks that.)

Wow, I had no idea that resolving this issue involved such a commitment to precision with regard to the the wheel being level in the lateral plane! I very much appreciate your sharing your experience. I feel like I've got quite the challenge ahead of me. Also, thanks for the encouragement not to settle and accept that somewhat annoying characteristic without first making a strong attempt at fixing it as you've described.

[Cracka]

Butta Bing

[Cracka]

[Cracka]

Pedal dip is gone after calibrating on blocks.