KS-18L: Bigger Batteries?

[Lutalo]

1 hour ago, Tom Skanks said:

I own an KS18L and its amazing! I wonder if a battery upgrade could be available to existing KS18L owners.

Should be possible as long as there are no changes to the wheel shape. Probably come out better selling your 18L and just upgrading - if the extra range is worth it to you. 

[Daniel Clopton]

The KS-18L checks every box on my list of requirements for my next wheel except for the 1600Wh battery. The 18XL would get me to buy into the new generation if they keep all other features. Central trolley handle, lift sensor or button, and a max speed equal or greater than 30 MPH. 

[US69]

@Siggy @Lutalo

There are no links to provide in the Moment....that the 18XL is Happening is actually a Information, which even shouldn't be revealed now.

But as other (re)sellers accidently gave out the Information...it is out in the world now. 

So i would guess best would be to contact your trusted seller and leave a pre-order.

[US69]

On ‎9‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 7:05 PM, Tom Skanks said:

Watch Duf's video completely and carefully, the wind changed his round-trip efficiency greatly and he acknowledges that the wheel's range is on par with everyone else...about 40 miles max.

I didn't have this from Duf only…..just wanted to Mention a Video...

Nonetheless i have some German Friends/owners which revealed that -compared to other 1000wh wheels- it is really efficient.

The over 80km range from a 105kg rider was just the best example :-)

A (much lighter) Thai friend is "just" doing max 50km trips...and has/had always 45-50% left after that….

[Lutalo]

38 minutes ago, US69 said:

@Siggy @Lutalo

There are no links to provide in the Moment....that the 18XL is Happening is actually a Information, which even shouldn't be revealed now.

But as other (re)sellers accidently gave out the Information...it is out in the world now. 

So i would guess best would be to contact your trusted seller and leave a pre-order.

Thanks Ulf. Will do. 

[Jens Ronnedal]

I'm in business for a wheel that's larger in diameter and got lots of battery. I have the Inmotion V8 right now as my first wheel. I don't like the looks of the MSX, but I like the stats. I love the looks of the Z10 but I don't like the stats. The 18L is right in between, but if they were to make the so called 18XL I'm gonna put down my preorder as fast as possible. Although I have not been able to test ride the 18L yet but I'm gonna do that later today. That is deffinetly gonna make up my mind.

[Lutalo]

3 hours ago, Jens Ronnedal said:

Although I have not been able to test ride the 18L yet but I'm gonna do that later today. That is deffinetly gonna make up my mind.

You are gonna love it. ??

[Cumulus Libre]

I assume their will be an extra weight in case of bigger batteries.. 

[Lutalo]

5 hours ago, Cumulus Libre said:

I assume their will be an extra weight in case of bigger batteries.. 

More range definitely requires at least some give and take. I prefer more take and less give. ??

[Cumulus Libre]

14 minutes ago, Lutalo said:

I prefer more take and less give. ??

on a more philosophical note , their is more pleasure in giving..

but for sure I get you  and agree if we discuss EUC... 

[Lutalo]

1 hour ago, Cumulus Libre said:

on a more philosophical note , their is more pleasure in giving..

but for sure I get you  and agree if we discuss EUC... 

My friend, If only that giving principal was more than rhetoric. What a wonderful world this would be. ☺

[Jens Ronnedal]

On 9/17/2018 at 3:12 PM, Jens Ronnedal said:

I'm in business for a wheel that's larger in diameter and got lots of battery. I have the Inmotion V8 right now as my first wheel. I don't like the looks of the MSX, but I like the stats. I love the looks of the Z10 but I don't like the stats. The 18L is right in between, but if they were to make the so called 18XL I'm gonna put down my preorder as fast as possible. Although I have not been able to test ride the 18L yet but I'm gonna do that later today. That is deffinetly gonna make up my mind.

It's been a few days since I test rided the 18L. The only wheel I have to compare it with is my Inmotion V8 that I've had for about 2½ months. The biggest difference I noticed right away was that the V8 it top heavy and the 18L is bottom heavy. Both has their advantages and disadvantages. Top heavy is good because you get a very responsive wheel that will turn with very little effort. The bottom heavy 18L feels more like it's made to go straight forward and cover alot of distance. As soon as you try to make a tight corner you first have to put some effort into getting it to start turning. But as soon as you get it to lean you get surprised by the sudden shift of weight that feels like the wheel is going to tip over inwards. You have to counter it like you would with a motorcycle, you have to give it just a little bit of gas to keep it up and you're fine.

I guess the difference between the wheels wouldn't has been as big if the only wheel I've been riding up til now also would have been bottom heavy. I hear people going the opposite way, trying a top heavy after getting used to a bottom heavy and they don't like it one bit. I felt that it would take some getting used to but absolutely no deal breaker. What surprises me is how rarely you hear anyone mention this fact while reviewing lots of wheels.

There are a few properties that I base my decision of my next wheel to buy the most of. And one of them is a bigger wheel/tyre, perferbly 18x2.5-3.0". There are alot of uneven surfices to ride on in my town. My weight (100kg) combined with a small wheel 16x2.125" make every little dent in the road noticeable. Riding the 18L with it's 18x2.5" wheel was alot smoother, even going over some rough dents on purpose. I found myself overcompensating for the uneven road at the beginning of the ride, bending my knees like I've gotten used to but during the ride I got relaxed knowing that it takes some serious dents to get you flying off this wheel. At the end I was not at all looking forward to change back to my own wheel. I'm not saying the V8 is a bad wheel. It's a really great wheel and I'm never gonna regret buying it. It will still be perfect for commuting. I live on the 3rd floor with no elevator, so it will be very easy to chose which wheel to pick from one ride to another depending on where I'm going.

It's the decision of which wheel to buy next that is hard. If I buy a wheel with only around 1000Wh I'm afraid I'll regret it. But the choices of wheels with 1500+Wh doesn't look appealing at the moment. But winter is coming and I'm in no hurry to buy my next wheel. I never tested the speed of the 18L in respect of it's owner and I'm not into wheels for the speed. I'd be totally fine with never be able to go more than 30km/h on any wheel ever.

I really like the design of the V8 with one handle with the disabling button to carry it with and one seperate trolley handle. I'm a little worried about the single handle on the 18L since I will be both lifting it and rolling it around in the handle quite a bit since I live in the city. And will be taking it to work, stores and such. But the few times I tested to lift the 18L it seemed to work fine. But you are waiting for the beep from the sensor before lifting it. That you never do with the V8, you just yank it straight off the ground knowing it will shut off.

[Jerome]

1 hour ago, Jens Ronnedal said:

It's the decision of which wheel to buy next that is hard. If I buy a wheel with only around 1000Wh I'm afraid I'll regret it. But the choices of wheels with 1500+Wh doesn't look appealing at the moment. But winter is coming and I'm in no hurry to buy my next wheel. I never tested the speed of the 18L in respect of it's owner and I'm not into wheels for the speed. I'd be totally fine with never be able to go more than 30km/h on any wheel ever.

If you never go faster than 30 kph, then a 1KWh battery should be fine. At you weight and those speeds you probably will get 35+ miles range. If you need more range than that, then wait for the KS18XL (1600wh battery), buy a KS18S, or go Gotway. There are no other choices.

[Lutalo]

3 hours ago, Jens Ronnedal said:

The bottom heavy 18L feels more like it's made to go straight forward and cover alot of distance. As soon as you try to make a tight corner you first have to put some effort into getting it to start turning. But as soon as you get it to lean you get surprised by the sudden shift of weight that feels like the wheel is going to tip over inwards. You have to counter it like you would with a motorcycle, you have to give it just a little bit of gas to keep it up and you're fine.

Grasshopper,  you are learning well the Kung Fu, but you need much practice  ??

[mrelwood]

While I have yet to try the 18L, I’ve never quite understood the talk about top or bottom heavy wheels. I’ve ridden 10 different wheels and never felt it myself.

What I do know is that 18” wheels behave differently than a 16” also in ways that were impossible to predict. What Jens described about turning on the 18L are natural charasteristics of an 18” wheel. While several aspects affect the strength of the effect, they are there with every 18-incher.

Switching to a wider tire does some similiar things, and 18” EUCs all have atleast a 2.5” wide tire. It is possible it all wasn’t the effect of a bottom heavy wheel after all.

[Lutalo]

20 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

While I have yet to try the 18L, I’ve never quite understood the talk about top or bottom heavy wheels. I’ve ridden 10 different wheels and never felt it myself.

What I do know is that 18” wheels behave differently than a 16” also in ways that were impossible to predict. What Jens described about turning on the 18L are natural charasteristics of an 18” wheel. While several aspects affect the strength of the effect, they are there with every 18-incher.

Switching to a wider tire does some similiar things, and 18” EUCs all have atleast a 2.5” wide tire. It is possible it all wasn’t the effect of a bottom heavy wheel after all.

That difference: 16" dynamics and 18" dynamic is really all @Jens Ronnedal is describing. As he progresses through the 36 shaolin chambers he will come into the wisdom of the Kung Fu which you have so eloquently expressed. 

[Lutalo]

Took a trip on the 18L around DC today. Mostly paved trails, but some street. 34 miles and some change round-trip I ended with about 40% battery remaining. I achieved this on the 18L with conservative riding . The majority of the trip was on a trail called the Capitol Crescent Trail (CCT) and the speed limit is15 mph. For the most part I kept it near but below 15 mph the entire trip on and off the CCT; except for a two mile stretch where I had to relegate a couple of cyclists to their proper place in the food chain. I'm guessing here,  but I think I was good for another 15-20 miles. I need to do a full range test because today's performance has me believing that I can do over 50 miles. 

[Jerome]

50 minutes ago, Lutalo said:

Took a trip on the 18L around DC today. Mostly paved trails, but some street. 34 miles and some change round-trip I ended with about 40% battery remaining. I achieved this on the 18L with conservative riding . The majority of the trip was on a trail called the Capitol Crescent Trail (CCT) and the speed limit is15 mph. For the most part I kept it near but below 15 mph the entire trip on and off the CCT; except for a two mile stretch where I had to relegate a couple of cyclists to their proper place in the food chain. I'm guessing here,  but I think I was good for another 15-20 miles. I need to do a full range test because today's performance has me believing that I can do over 50 miles. 

I might do a <=15 mph range test also, but just for curiosity. I am only interested in the 100% to 20% range, as that is best for the batteries and my sanity. I weigh 240 lbs so the difference might prove interesting.

[Lutalo]

1 hour ago, Jerome said:

I might do a <=15 mph range test also, but just for curiosity. I am only interested in the 100% to 20% range, as that is best for the batteries and my sanity. I weigh 240 lbs so the difference might prove interesting.

Won't be much. I'm at 220 lbs.???

[LanghamP]

On 9/20/2018 at 9:24 AM, Jens Ronnedal said:

I guess the difference between the wheels wouldn't has been as big if the only wheel I've been riding up til now also would have been bottom heavy. I hear people going the opposite way, trying a top heavy after getting used to a bottom heavy and they don't like it one bit. I felt that it would take some getting used to but absolutely no deal breaker. What surprises me is how rarely you hear anyone mention this fact while reviewing lots of wheels.

I believe wheels that have most of their weight low or high behave about the same, that is, they can be quite difficult to turn. It's wheels that have most of their weight in the center, presumably near their axle, that have that tip-in and instability handling.

You can verify this by putting a crapload of weigh on top of any wheel; it becomes more stable. Place the weight more down, or front and rear, and sure, while the wheel is more stable than if your panniers were empty, it is less stable that putting the weight on the tip or bottom of your wheel.

An analogy is balancing a long umbrella versus a short umbrella. Interestingly riding very tall mechanical unicycles is easiest.

In my opinion, faster wheels should simply place all their heavy components as far from the center as possible whereas wheels designed for slow speed should do the opposite. Your biggest enemy on a big fast wheel are speed wobbles, you want that wheel to be so stable that wobbles never occur in the first place.

Going back to the topic, what practical difference is there between the Kingsong 18S versus the 18Lx? If the range and the wheel size is now the same, I would think everyone would buy the smaller form factor.

[mrelwood]

9 hours ago, LanghamP said:

what practical difference is there between the Kingsong 18S versus the 18Lx? If the range and the wheel size is now the same, I would think everyone would buy the smaller form factor.

Riding seated. The 18S seems to have a very comfortable posture for that. I’ve tried riding my MSX seated for a few times now. Even my pants won’t bend for that extreme hip and knee angles! 18L is barely any taller than the MSX.

[stephen]

5 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Riding seated. The 18S seems to have a very comfortable posture for that. I’ve tried riding my MSX seated for a few times now. Even my pants won’t bend for that extreme hip and knee angles! 18L is barely any taller than the MSX.

this was my first time ever trying seated ? in not that bendy ?