Decisions, decisions

[Fubrite]

Hi,

Apologies, as this is essentially another "recommend me an EUC" thread, but I hope with enough of a difference to keep it interesting.

I've started commuting to work on an electric scooter, and have been enjoying the saved time, money and freedom over public transport. Unfortunately, even though the scooter has front and rear suspension, the poor control system has badly exacerbated the RSI in my wrists after only a few weeks.

A guy at work has an EUC, and that looks like it might be the answer, but then I came on here looking for more info, and was thoroughly terrified by the accident stories...

So my first question is - is there such a thing as a 'safe' EUC yet? One that at least won't randomly cut out if ridden inside the power limit warnings?

Secondly, does anyone practice falling off? I'm thinking of setting up a tilting platform and a crashmat... Are there any recommended techniques?

Thirdly, presuming I'm brave enough to join you crazy people ? what would be a good EUC to buy? I'm in the UK, would rather not spend more than £600 (don't mind Ebay/ used), but also would rather not have to upgrade any time soon... I'm also not too bothered about speed - 15 mph is perfectly adequate for my needs.

Here's the interesting bit - I'm short ( 4' 9'' ) and quite light (~55kg + backpack). I'm wondering whether the normal euc's are going to be too big and heavy and whether to go for something like an IPS i5? Or what do you think to the InMotion v5?

 

[The Fat Unicyclist]

Hi @Fubrite, and welcome to the forum... The fact that you are here may possibly mean that it is too late for you anyway - so just go for it.

You are quite light, so could potential go with a King Song 14D/S or a 16S - these would all be "safe" wheels. But before anyone can say anything more, "How far is your commute?" And, "What is the terrain?"

Answers to these questions will help us all to advise on your best options.

[RockyTop]

I ride my EUC with my wife ,daughter and son inlaw as they ride their bikes. They are triathletes and average 20-22 mph for 20 miles at a time.  It is lots of fun.  I have been doing this for the last two months and in that time two of them have wrecked. I am the guy on the unicycle have not . I said all of this to say that we talk about wrecking but it is not something that only EUCs  do.

[Fubrite]

Thanks for the reply!

My commute would be a 6-9 mile round trip, depending on if I take the scenic route home... I can theoretically charge the EUC at work, but would prefer not if I can help it.

The terrain is mostly flat tarmac, cycle path, or (often broken) paving slabs. There are a couple of short, steepish slopes, but nothing my 500W, 11kg scooter can't handle without breaking a sweat.

[meepmeepmayer]

A wheel suddenly cutting out mid-ride is a horror scenario that naturally is always on mind with EUCs. Because what if it happens? But this actually does not happen. Like, not at all. At least with all brand wheels. So you need to separate what can theoretically happen to what actually does. There are no sudden cut-outs. People may overlean wheels (ignore all warnings and accelerate into oblivion). Wheels may be too weak or have too small of a  battery so someone could overpower one. Maybe some wheels are DOA or fail the instant you try them first. But they do not just suddenly stop working after they are confirmed working. So don't worry about that. If you want to wear a full face helmet (a good idea anyways, as you always fall forwards in an accident) to further mitigate this theoretical risk, do that.

Practicing a crash... not sure. Some general falling techniques from martial arts might help, but EUC specific, you'd have to set up intentional crashes with your wheel and see how it goes (getting a pedal stuck on a rock, huge pothole, curb, whatever). Cut-outs, you can't practice, happens way to fast for anyone, but since they don't actually happen...

600 is not much money for a wheel that can go 15mph safely. Also, as soon as you go 15mph, you realize how slow that really is and that bicycles are faster. So if you want to go for something bigger right away, consider it.

With your low weight, I'd go looking for a 14D/14S (used for your price) or I guess the V5F (600 on Speedy Feet) is enough for your needs, though the battery is quite small. IPS i5 is too slow in my opinion. Well, it depends on your commute details...

[Smoother]

Hopefully, you are aware that EUC's are illegal to ride in the UK except on private land, and that you run the risk of a fine and points on your license.

As for accidents; everybody here is fully aware of the accidents, and many have participated in said accidents.  Virtually 100% are still riding.  So that should tell you that it's a hell of a lot of fun.

Your weight is an advantage as you will not need a massive, or powerful wheel to stay safe. Tire size is your choice (read all about it here) but bigger wheels, are usually heavier.

A good built in trolley handle is essential (I said "good", not just "present").  Get the biggest battery you can afford.  Having said that I had the best time learning on my 340Wh KS14c, although lack of battery power did throw me down the road a few times.

[RockyTop]

No one else is biting.......... KS16

For someone your size an Inmotion V8 would work. I am not sure if the mileage will get you both way but a quick one hour change should make it a sure thing. There are many people that love and swear by the InMotion V8.  The KingSong 14D would aslo work and it cost less.

Having responded to your request I would not be a good friend if I did not tell you that the KingSong 16s Is the best all around wheel for the money. Given your size you do not NEED a KS16. ( more rugged faster better distance, proven workhorse, gold standard)

Learning takes time. You tend to learn slow and steady. You get better every time you ride.

[Fubrite]

Thanks for the input so far, guys!

@RocketTop and @meepmeepmayer, thanks for your comments putting accidents in perspective.

So what is counted as 'underpowered' and 'small battery' in EUC terms? And when you say 'At least with all brand wheels', do you mean that some brands are more susceptible than others? Or that, like any mechnical / electronic device, some units may have faults, but they're not all like that?

@Smoother@, yes I was aware of the illegality of public use, but so are e-scooters... (Which is incredibly shortsighted to my way of thinking...)

Come to that bikes and certain mobility scooters are illegal on pavements! This thing cuts my otherwise 3.5 hr round trip commute in half... so I'm hoping that as long as I'm careful and considerate, the police might look the other way, being as they've got bigger fish to fry in this neck of the woods!

[RockyTop]

3 minutes ago, Fubrite said:

So what is counted as 'underpowered' and 'small battery' in EUC terms? And when you say 'At least with all brand wheels'

Battery is power, Some wheels have more batters in parallel and in series giving it a higher Amperage and voltage.  The wheel has to keep you balanced.  If you lean too much or accelerate too fast the wheel can not compensate. Any wheel smaller than the InMotion V8 or the KS14d should not be considered.  If you are over 165 pounds even the V8 and KS14d are too small.  It is always nice to have more battery.

The newer wheels made by KingSong, InMotion and Ninebot should not have any problems. Older models and other brands might be questionable. Mostly the cheaper stuff. 

I left out my favorite brand, GotWay. They could be the safest wheel on the market but because of early problems and people like me that have the need for speed tend to give GotWay a bad rep. 

[Stan Onymous]

All of the choices are fine from Inmotion V5f or Glide 2 to KS14D, IPS i5 is a tempting choice, but the motor, skinny tire, and low front clearance will make those paving stones more dodgy. The average 3-5 speed bike goes around 14 mph. You will beat them on the hills. The 10-24 speed bikes go around 18- 20 mph. Since you will not be allowed on the pavements in certain areas, speed will not be a determining factor.

I suggest 3 vehicles the InMotion V8 $900, 16” wheel, 30 lbs, top speed of 20 mph with Darknessbot app for ios. 480wh changeable battery (ten mins changing time). Very mobile, nifty wheel disengagement button, nice trolley handle, 800watt motor.    Kingsong14D $770, 14” wheel, 30 lbs 19mph max speed, 420wh battery, possibly upgradeable with an extra battery. Built in trolley handle, Bluetooth speakers. 800watt motor, and the Surprise, IPS s5 $885 14” wheel, 30lbs top speed of 19mph, 1000 watt dual motor dual battery system, 518 wh battery, slim form factor, led lights. Slim elegant design looks more water resistant due to fewer ingresses.

Good luck, all of those wheels will impress the hell out of you, and you should easily be able to do around 20 - 25 miles at your weight and wind resistance. Let us know of your decision

[Rotciv]

13 hours ago, Fubrite said:

Hi,

Apologies, as this is essentially another "recommend me an EUC" thread, but I hope with enough of a difference to keep it interesting.

I've started commuting to work on an electric scooter, and have been enjoying the saved time, money and freedom over public transport. Unfortunately, even though the scooter has front and rear suspension, the poor control system has badly exacerbated the RSI in my wrists after only a few weeks.

A guy at work has an EUC, and that looks like it might be the answer, but then I came on here looking for more info, and was thoroughly terrified by the accident stories...

So my first question is - is there such a thing as a 'safe' EUC yet? One that at least won't randomly cut out if ridden inside the power limit warnings?

Secondly, does anyone practice falling off? I'm thinking of setting up a tilting platform and a crashmat... Are there any recommended techniques?

Thirdly, presuming I'm brave enough to join you crazy people ? what would be a good EUC to buy? I'm in the UK, would rather not spend more than £600 (don't mind Ebay/ used), but also would rather not have to upgrade any time soon... I'm also not too bothered about speed - 15 mph is perfectly adequate for my needs.

Here's the interesting bit - I'm short ( 4' 9'' ) and quite light (~55kg + backpack). I'm wondering whether the normal euc's are going to be too big and heavy and whether to go for something like an IPS i5? Or what do you think to the InMotion v5?

 

Not sure about practicing falls, but you can simulate it by finding/making a ditch deep enough that your wheel has no chance of getting out and try riding across it. You can also have someone turn off your wheel with a selfie stick while you’re riding. I would not recommend any of the above. Just ride as much as you can and learn from all the little mistakes that you make. 

The Ninebot One S1 is a good starter wheel. Very durable and has enough range and speed for beginners. It’s also the least expensive “modern” wheel with tilt back and beep. 

[Stan Onymous]

5 minutes ago, RockyTop said:

I left out my favorite brand, GotWay. They could be the safest wheel on the market but because of early problems and people like me that have the need for speed tend to give GotWay a bad rep. 

Because Gotway has none of the Nanny safety warnings it is more of an intermediate machine. What I mean is that the Gotways will allow you to blow a mosfet or melt a wire without the embarrassing Overload or Overheat messages. On hills and at higher speed with low batteries and wind or traffic noise, the Gotway needs an experienced rider to know its limits so the Gotway will shine.

[esaj]

1 hour ago, Fubrite said:

Thanks for the input so far, guys!

@RocketTop and @meepmeepmayer, thanks for your comments putting accidents in perspective.

Brand wheels cutting out is a rare issue, but I always underline that any wheel can (potentially) cut out at any time. I strongly suggest wearing safety gear, a minimum of some sort of helmet (even a bike helmet), and wrist guards. Personally I ride "robocop", meaning full-face motorcycle helmet, Flexmeter Demon wristguards and elbow & knee pads. But it's everyones' own choice in the end.

These things are completely electronically driven, and a single faulty component can send you flying. Still, I've ridden thousands of kilometers on 4 separate wheels, had my falls (two of them were quite bad, but my own fault), and (so far, knock on wood), not a single instance where I could say it was the wheel cutting out. One instance was a cut-out, but caused by custom batteries with a wrong type of BMS, not something you would likely ever encounter buying a new (or even used) wheel.

 

Quote

So what is counted as 'underpowered' and 'small battery' in EUC terms? And when you say 'At least with all brand wheels', do you mean that some brands are more susceptible than others? Or that, like any mechnical / electronic device, some units may have faults, but they're not all like that?

Gotways have a bit of a bad rep due to lots of past technical issues (mainboards blowing mosfets, overheating motor connectors melting wires / shorting, firmware issues), but lately they seem to have stepped up their game. If you want high speed (speaking about 40-50+kmh/25-30+mph), that's pretty much the only way to go (except maybe the newer KS18S and KS18L, latter of which has had some faults lately, likely related to the firmware and the sensor in the handle turning off the motor when carrying it, and maybe Rockwheel GT16 V2?). Since you ask for lower speeds, KS16S (note the S in the end, it's different from the KS16B/KS16C, which aren't bad wheels either, just lower powered and slightly slower) is a good all-arounder, not terribly fast (tilt-back max is 35kmh/about 21.5mph), robust as hell, but not on the cheap end (don't know the UK-prices, but changing from euros to GBP, around £1150 maybe for the 840Wh model?). InMotions, while having smaller batteries, could also suit you well. Most of the newer "big names" are power wheels, fast and huge batteries, but maybe not that suitable for commuting, as they're large and heavy.

For a good all-arounder and mostly urban setting, 14" or 16" (personal favorite) might be better suited than the 18" or above ones. The larger the tire, the easier it is (usually) to ride in rougher terrain, but usually that also comes with added weight and less "agility" (nimbleness, the ease of controlling the wheel).

For small battery, these days, I'd guess anything under 680Wh / 840Wh is considered small, although in the same weight class with you, the 840Wh KS16S can take me about 50+km (30+ miles) on single charge, probably maybe even over 60km if going slower. When it comes to "underpowered" batteries, it's not so much about the total watt hours of the battery packs but rather how many are in parallel. 4 packs in parallel  (xxS4P, S = amount of cells in series, P = amount of cell-series in parallel) can give (theoretically) a couple of kilowatts continuously, several kilowatts of power in bursts (as high as 5+kW for 67-volt systems, more for 84V). I've ridden a Firewheel with 16S2P and 550W nominal motor at speeds in excess of 30kmh without incident, currently I ride a KS16S.

If it's not otherwise said, you can (sort of) "guess" the amount of parallel packs based on the total watthours though, as 16S (16 cells in series, not KS16S, the name of the wheel's easy to mix up with the battery setup ) with the highest capacity cells can have a maximum of (about, the manufacturers round the numbers) 210Wh per pack, so 840Wh = 16S4P, 4 * 210Wh.

Of course, this is just my personal point of view, and the huge number of riders frequenting these forums can likely suggest other (maybe better suited) wheels for you.

 

[RockyTop]

Yeah! ........... What esaj said............... Would you believe he wrote that in 5 minutes? ...... I am going to go play with a rock in the back yard now.  .... I feel really dumb. 

[esaj]

7 minutes ago, RockyTop said:

Yeah! ........... What esaj said............... Would you believe he wrote that in 5 minutes? ...... I am going to go play with a rock in the back yard now.  .... I feel really dumb. 

Hardly in 5 minutes, plus I edited the post a couple of times   

[Jerome]

You need not consider or pay more than the price of a Inmotion Solowheel Glide 3 or King Song ks14D.  If you get addicted you will more than likely get a second EUC. Buying a more powerful - more expensive wheel to start will make for a heavier more cumbersome wheel to get on and off public transit and take into work. At you weight the Glide 3 and KS14D will not likely be out grown quickly as you didn't mentioned you had out grown the 500w scooter. I don't recommend buying used. GL

[steve454]

For £600, speedyfeet has the Inmotion v5F https://www.speedyfeet.co.uk/collections/electric-unicycle

[meepmeepmayer]

2 hours ago, Fubrite said:

So what is counted as 'underpowered' and 'small battery' in EUC terms?

A small battery would be a 2P battery (2 parallel blocks of cells in series) which limits the current (max current goes up with number of parallel blocks) and therefore the max power of the wheel too much to be considered safe at speed (>15mph maybe) nowadays. At least if you were an >80kg rider. With your weight, 2P should be fine. 2P would be the Inmotion V8 battery (480Wh), 14D (420Wh), the V5F (I think), and pretty much all battery sizes under 500Wh. 680Wh and bigger is no longer "small".

The 800W of the V8 or 14D/14S (or weaker motors) would also be considered borderline too weak for a >80kg rider, but for your weight, I see no problem.

2 hours ago, Fubrite said:

And when you say 'At least with all brand wheels', do you mean that some brands are more susceptible than others? Or that, like any mechnical / electronic device, some units may have faults, but they're not all like that?

That meant exactly two things:

1. I can't speak for some China generic thing.
2. The real reason: Gotway is explicitly ok.No less safe than other wheels in regard to mid ride cut-outs (these still don't happen randomly on any brand wheel). So if your wheel will be a Gotway, Kingsong, Inmotion, Ninebot, IPS, Rockwheel, you're good. Don't worry about cut-outs.

11 hours ago, Fubrite said:

My commute would be a 6-9 mile round trip, depending on if I take the scenic route home... I can theoretically charge the EUC at work, but would prefer not if I can help it.

For 10 miles with your weight, anything over 300Wh battery size should work. Even though 300Wh is really not much.

Hard to say what is best for you.
You could go with the V5F (also if the 600GBP is a hard price limit it's either this or a good used wheel offer) and maybe you will want to upgrade soon after that, maybe not. Personally I think it's too slow and the battery is to small. Especially for a daily long commute like your planned one, anything much under 30km/h will be "meh" soon.
The KS14D is also a great option, and it has a wonderful form factor for commuting with the trolley handle. Not sure if you would quickly want to upgrade from that, or a 14S which just has a bigger battery.
The Inmotion V8 is about the same price but for some reason I like the 14D/S better.
Or you could go for a "bigger" wheel (bigger as in more powerful, bigger battery and bigger price) like a 16S right away, something that we usually recommend because most people will want one eventually. But your weight will let you get away with more.

Really hard to say, do you want your forever wheel now, do you want to start cheaper now?

Some links where you can check prices and get an idea of the market.

https://www.speedyfeet.co.uk/collections/electric-unicycle

http://www.1radwerkstatt.de/epages/80603321.sf/en_GB/?ViewObjectPath=%2FShops%2F80603321%2FCategories%2FCategory1 (careful their 14S is 680Wh instead of 840Wh as it usually is)

https://www.electricunicycles.eu/store

For better prices, not sure if ebay etc. will work for EUCs. But you can try importing from China via AliExpress. But before you buy, maybe ask people here what they think.

[ir_fuel]

I would recommend the KS16S. Inmotion V8 looks better imo, but I think technically the KingSong is the better wheel.