Rehab1 Posted May 23, 2017 Author Share Posted May 23, 2017 3 hours ago, Slaughthammer said: Did you try to switch it on when it's standing upright? Maybe it won't power on when lying on the site... Yes that was attempted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos E Rodriguez Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 1 hour ago, meepmeepmayer said: You could attach the switch to your measuring device and see if you can find out something. Maybe the switch just closes the electrical connection so the voltage is always there, but if the board detects a current flow it knows the button is being pressed. Random guessing... edit: this got lost a little, looks like the switch is ok and you should check all the other stuff, especially mods. very odd the switch reads 84 volts. I would think that any logic would have been stepped down to 5Vdc or 3.3vDC what ever the chips use at this time. I owuld guess the circuit board voltage regulation/step-down got fried. But without actual inspection is pure guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSport Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 Couple things... First: I also have full battery voltage at my switch terminals, so that's not strange. Second: Where did you connect your continuity test on the switch? At the end of the wires at the plug? Is it possible there is a break on the way to the board? Third: Have you tried shorting the switch terminals on the board just as the switch would do? Maybe there is a bad connection along the switch wiring? Can use a screwdriver to short across leads. Momentary short should blink the headlight. Hold for over a second should make wheel come alive. EDIT: I just did the Short Across Terminals with a screwdriver on my board and NO FIRE or Sparks! It's safe.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos E Rodriguez Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 41 minutes ago, SuperSport said: Couple things... First: I also have full battery voltage at my switch terminals, so that's not strange. Second: Where did you connect your continuity test on the switch? At the end of the wires at the plug? Is it possible there is a break on the way to the board? Third: Have you tried shorting the switch terminals on the board just as the switch would do? Maybe there is a bad connection along the switch wiring? Can use a screwdriver to short across leads. Momentary short should blink the headlight. Hold for over a second should make wheel come alive. EDIT: I just did the Short Across Terminals with a screwdriver on my board and NO FIRE or Sparks! It's safe.) does your switch port has 84 vdc on one pin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSport Posted May 23, 2017 Share Posted May 23, 2017 6 minutes ago, Carlos E Rodriguez said: does your switch port has 84 vdc on one pin? My wheel is 67.2v but when I test across both switch pins, I get 67'ish volts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted May 23, 2017 Author Share Posted May 23, 2017 1 hour ago, SuperSport said: Couple things... First: I also have full battery voltage at my switch terminals, so that's not strange. Second: Where did you connect your continuity test on the switch? At the end of the wires at the plug? Is it possible there is a break on the way to the board? Third: Have you tried shorting the switch terminals on the board just as the switch would do? Maybe there is a bad connection along the switch wiring? Can use a screwdriver to short across leads. Momentary short should blink the headlight. Hold for over a second should make wheel come alive. EDIT: I just did the Short Across Terminals with a screwdriver on my board and NO FIRE or Sparks! It's safe.) Thanks for performing your own little autopsy on your ACM! Greatly appreciated! Continuity test was performed at the plug. Here is the short circuit test. Must admit I was a bit worried! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted May 23, 2017 Author Share Posted May 23, 2017 1 hour ago, Carlos E Rodriguez said: does your switch port has 84 vdc on one pin? If I touch meter's positive probe onto the pos terminal and then ground neg probe to the heat sink the voltage is all over the place ranging from 30v to 20v. FYI , both capacitors read 84v. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted May 23, 2017 Author Share Posted May 23, 2017 @Jason McNeil is sending me out a new board today! Such awesome service!!! The other board from China is still 2 weeks away! I will probably just sell that on EBay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted May 23, 2017 Author Share Posted May 23, 2017 2 hours ago, SuperSport said: EDIT: I just did the Short Across Terminals with a screwdriver on my board and NO FIRE or Sparks! It's safe.) Oops wrong video. Here it is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSport Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 1 hour ago, Rehab1 said: Oops wrong video. Here it is That's exactly what should have caused something positive to happen. Should have at least flickered the headlight. It does seem like maybe the board took a hit. @Jason McNeil is the bomb! Thank you Jason!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 Oh man that sucks, but glad to see that your sense of humour is intact! Did you check when you remounted your MOSFETS that everything was insulated properly? @esaj do you think accidentally shorting a MOSFET to the heatsink might explain the spark explosion and the subsequent control board not activating? Is there anyway to double check that there is no continuity between the heatsink and the MOSFETs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 6 hours ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: Oh man that sucks, but glad to see that your sense of humour is intact! Did you check when you remounted your MOSFETS that everything was insulated properly? @esaj do you think accidentally shorting a MOSFET to the heatsink might explain the spark explosion and the subsequent control board not activating? Is there anyway to double check that there is no continuity between the heatsink and the MOSFETs? If one or more of the low-side mosfets would start conducting with the mosfet drains directly connected to the heatsink, they would short-circuit the battery. But it could just as well have been just the capacitors charging up over a slight resistance at the connectors. Continuity between the mosfet and the heatsink can simply be checked by putting one probe on the "flange" (the metal tab, that should be internally connected to the mosfet drain) of the mosfet and other touching the heatsink. But since the wheel won't even boot-up, I'd be inclined to think that the step-down stage is damaged as Carlos suggested before. Or even the CPU (MCU) itself, like was the case with the Firewheel-board I've been poking around. Fast current change will induce back-EMF voltage in inductors, and for example wiring carries some stray (aka parasitic) inductance. For "normal" workloads it's not usually a problem (or at least should be taken into account in design), as it's relatively small, but sudden jolts of high current can cause high voltages that can damage things. Of course it's just speculation, but something like that could have happened here. Btw, the reason I haven't posted about the spot-welder lately in the Headache-topic is stray inductance and related voltage spikes, the simulations showed more or less worst-case scenarios of back-EMF causing way above 100V (from a 12V bank) at high current spikes over the wires (high dI/dt, ie. change in current over time) and destroying the mosfet-switch bank (40V mosfets), so I need to order some fast high current spike capable recovery/flyback/freewheel/whateveryoucallthem diodes and make a list of some other stuff I need before ordering... but it will take a while to get around to do it with the new wheel(s) and other things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted May 24, 2017 Author Share Posted May 24, 2017 14 hours ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: Oh man that sucks, but glad to see that your sense of humour is intact! Did you check when you remounted your MOSFETS that everything was insulated properly? @esaj do you think accidentally shorting a MOSFET to the heatsink might explain the spark explosion and the subsequent control board not activating? Is there anyway to double check that there is no continuity between the heatsink and the MOSFETs? It is not cancer! $150 for a new board from Jason and we should be good to go. Yes everything was actually over insulated. If my hand got burned then I believe the board did as well.... at least I hope that is the issue. I would hate to think the new motor is defective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos E Rodriguez Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 3 minutes ago, Rehab1 said: It is not cancer! $150 for a new board from Jason and we should be good to go. Yes everything was actually over insulated. If my hand got burned then I believe the board did as well.... at least I hope that is the issue. I would hate to think the new motor is defective. I feel so terrible. I cant believe you are having so much trouble. Maybe you need to start praying. some how the gods of the wheel are mad at you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted May 24, 2017 Author Share Posted May 24, 2017 25 minutes ago, Carlos E Rodriguez said: I feel so terrible. I cant believe you are having so much trouble. Maybe you need to start praying. some how the gods of the wheel are mad at you. @Marty Backe must now donate heavily to the GW Gods. When he slacked off on his donations he fell off of his wheel and later got trapped in mountains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 16 minutes ago, Rehab1 said: @Marty Backe must now donate heavily to the GW Gods. When he slacked off on his donations he fell off of his wheel and later got trapped in mountains. I just bought a new wheel, so maybe that'll help for a little while Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted May 24, 2017 Author Share Posted May 24, 2017 19 minutes ago, Marty Backe said: I just bought a new wheel, so maybe that'll help for a little while Now what did you buy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 16 minutes ago, Rehab1 said: Now what did you buy? I upgraded my MSuper to the V3s+. When I rode @who_the's V3s I was really impressed with the additional power and heft of the wheel. Maybe my recent problems were due to an imbalance in my Gotway Universe. My Monster and ACM are 84v wheels but the MSuper is still 67 volts. Not good. So when Jason ships out my new wheel everything should be in balance again . I have to wait a couple of weeks, so things are still sketchy here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted May 24, 2017 Author Share Posted May 24, 2017 1 hour ago, Marty Backe said: I upgraded my MSuper to the V3s+. When I rode @who_the's V3s I was really impressed with the additional power and heft of the wheel. Maybe my recent problems were due to an imbalance in my Gotway Universe. My Monster and ACM are 84v wheels but the MSuper is still 67 volts. Not good. So when Jason ships out my new wheel everything should be in balance again . I have to wait a couple of weeks, so things are still sketchy here Congratulations! Unfortunately with the sundry of wheels and sizes I own my celestrial coordinates are way out of wack! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 7 minutes ago, Rehab1 said: Congratulations! Unfortunately with the sundry of wheels and sizes I own my celestrial coordinates are way out of wack! Not to mention what you've been doing to that poor ACM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted May 24, 2017 Author Share Posted May 24, 2017 45 minutes ago, Marty Backe said: Not to mention what you've been doing to that poor ACM My Luffy is so scared it went into hiding! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted May 27, 2017 Author Share Posted May 27, 2017 I began installing the new main board this early morning before the holiday weekend. I still need to solder on new 4mm bullet connectors and reattach the wiring. Then I can test it to see if indeed the old board was fried. As I was beginning the install of the board I thought about a concept of adding fins to the motor's housing so as it spins it provides additional cooling to the Mosfet heat sink. I do not plan on doing this modificatipn at the moment as I just want to reassemble the ACM and ride it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason McNeil Posted May 27, 2017 Share Posted May 27, 2017 That's a good a point about heat conduction through the pedal support. Can't wait to get my hands on a couple GWs & do some thermal video testing. It's such a wonderful tool to capturing how effective measures like the linkage to the pedal arm are in practice. Had an idea for evaluating airflow rates inside the wheel-housing. One of the attachment for the eLogger is a mini pedo/airflow sensor; the sensor itself would be attached on the outside of the Wheel, & a flexible tube run to the inside. I suspect that while riding a 20MPH, there's going to be decent amount of turbulence channeling much of that heat away. http://www.eagletreesystems.com/Manuals/airspeed-v3.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted May 27, 2017 Author Share Posted May 27, 2017 54 minutes ago, Jason McNeil said: Had an idea for evaluating airflow rates inside the wheel-housing. One of the attachment for the eLogger is a mini pedo/airflow sensor; the sensor itself would be attached on the outside of the Wheel, & a flexible tube run to the inside. I suspect that while riding a 20MPH, there's going to be decent amount of turbulence channeling much of that heat away. That is an awesome idea! So many interesting thoughts and ideas about upgrades. The board is installed and cabling done. I removed the old padding from the pack and added a high voltage placard and red padding. My left index finger demanded it! Time to test it out in a few minutes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSport Posted May 27, 2017 Share Posted May 27, 2017 I remember the fins on the wheel being discussed a while back. I believe they decided against it due to balancing issues and dirt collection. They were concerned that the fins would collect dirt and mud while riding, effectively making the cooling even less effective, and becoming more imbalanced. I know you have great ideas though, so maybe you can come up with a better mousetrap. Back then I was thinking of making tiny grooves in the wheel with a dremmel. I figured that would cause some air motion also. But, as I looked at it, I decided that the air gets in there pretty good already as it flows through the wheel well. I've ridden on 100 degree days and so far have not had any cooling issues on my 67.2v Msuper. That thermal paste can be bought at Fry's Electronics, Best Buy, Radio Shack, etc... If you want a good all rounder, be sure to get one that is NON-Conductive in case you ever want to add it near your Mossfets, or other electronics in the future. If you DO use Silver Based Paste, be sure you don't get it onto any electronic conductors as it can short them out. IF you re-use the paste that is there, be sure you don't have any tiny pieces of sand or dirt in there as they will keep the two metal parts from making good contact. If using new paste, wipe everything very clean before applying a new layer. I know you probably know this, but there are a LOT of people reading this thread. 5 minutes ago, Rehab1 said: Time to test it out in a few minutes! Crossing Fingers and SO EXCITED!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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