Gotway msuper V2 vs v3 or mid range IPS for light off road

[vdubers]

Hi new here although i've been soaking up info for a few weeks now. Basically i bought a generic 14" learnt to ride it love it and now im looking to upgrade as it really isnt cut out for off road use. I have the option of getting a gotway msuper v2 for a very reasonable price. ( £750 in the UK btw). A gotway msuper v3 would cost around £250 more or i could get a second hand ips 132 for around £270. My question is do you guys feel the m3 is worth the extra £250? I primarily use an Iphone and am i right in thinking the m2 doesnt have ios bluetooh support? Or considering im still new should i just go for the ips and worry about the more advanced gotway later? Any tips or opinions would be appreciated. Thanks

[houseofjob]

Totally night and day class of wheels. The MSuper series arguably represents the bleeding edge in performance for today's EUCs, while IPS wheels, IMO, just like Ninebot, SoloWheel, and AirWheel, have stalled in terms of development in terms of performance, features, innovation, and are getting older by the day as new KingSong, Gotway, and InMotion models leave them in the dust.

Just remember, IPS does not publish nominal/average motor power, only momentary max, so if the IPS132 is max power 1300W, rough estimating the average power as 2-3X will be 430-650W. Next to the 1500W nominal MSuper3, there's just no comparison in terms of performance. On the IPS, you'll be struggling to go uphill, while the MSuper3 will probably feel like there is no hill.

IMO, the extra money for the v3 MSuper is worth it, with the obvious points being almost double the power, increased top speed, safety features (headlight, reactive brake light for visibility to cars at night), but less obviously, the MSuper2 encasing is much more convoluted than the improved recent Gotway wheel encasings (MSuper3, ACM, etc) which is important when troubleshooting and changing the tire, plus the v2 MSuper, as a result, is not very water resistant comparatively.

[vdubers]

Thanks for the reply. yeah your right im sure the IPS is nothing compared to the gotways. So you feel the msuper v3 is worth the extra over the v2? Personally i prefer the look of the v2 just looks more rugged but i didn't think about water resistance. Do you know if there is a chart anywhere comparing the two? My supplier said they (the msuper v2 and v3) use the same motor but sounds like that isnt the case? 

[US69]

4 minutes ago, vdubers said:

Thanks for the reply. yeah your right im sure the IPS is nothing compared to the gotways. So you feel the msuper v3 is worth the extra over the v2? Personally i prefer the look of the v2 just looks more rugged but i didn't think about water resistance. Do you know if there is a chart anywhere comparing the two? My supplier said they (the msuper v2 and v3) use the same motor but sounds like that isnt the case? 

not the same motor...v2 is 1000watt ...v3 is 1500watt!

v2 is not IOS compatible.

water resistance? light rain is no prob for all of them...heavy rain is more or less a no go on all EUC's

[Cloud]

I woukdnt say IPS is nothing compared to gotway, i am sure what @houseofjob was referring as the edge in performance was the motor power and battery capacity. I am not very familair with ips wheels but there can be other factors, and ips wheels may be superior in other ways, like waterproofing, quality of certain components, etc. it all depends on what you are looking for in a wheel and which wheel takes your fancy. 

I am pretty damn sure that the msuper 3 motor is more powerful tham V2. Besides the communicated nominal power rating increase (1500 vs1000wt), gotway would be insane if they did not upsize the motor power when upgrading to a new model as they are trying to compete in the fast changing market with other companies, as well as making sure that  their own other models like ACM do not cannibalize the Msuperv3 profits.

[houseofjob]

From helping a neighbor on the forum open up an MSuper2, if you remove the board, there is a cut-out hole peaking into the motor+wheel construction / outside. I would hardly call that water resistant / IP rated at all.

Plus the whole v2 innards is a complete pain to get into, and you must split the shell in two to change a tire. I might be mistaken, but I believe the v3 you do not have to split the case to detach the wheel/motor piece. I wouldn't underestimate the fact that, at some point, you have to replace a flat inner tube.

[vdubers]

Yeah sure sorry i meant the ips 132 vs gotway msuper v2 and v3. No disrespect towards ips Im sure there are other ips ones that match up better this is just one i could pick up cheap. Yeah i would have thought the msuper v3 was was a better motor from the v2. tbh if its 500w nominal power more that alone seems like its worth the extra cash. Im not overly fussed about top speed increases but i assume it would have better torque too? 

[houseofjob]

17 minutes ago, vdubers said:

Yeah sure sorry i meant the ips 132 vs gotway msuper v2 and v3. No disrespect towards ips Im sure there are other ips ones that match up better this is just one i could pick up cheap. Yeah i would have thought the msuper v3 was was a better motor from the v2. tbh if its 500w nominal power more that alone seems like its worth the extra cash. Im not overly fussed about top speed increases but i assume it would have better torque too? 

That's what's being reported (see FB comments on this post).

[vdubers]

Thanks for that seems the v3 is quite a decent improvement then. Im still a total newbie but higher pedals seems an advantage too for off-road use. Ive already come off once on my 14" because a pedal clipped a large rock

[houseofjob]

14 minutes ago, vdubers said:

Thanks for that seems the v3 is quite a decent improvement then. Im still a total newbie but higher pedals seems an advantage too for off-road use. Ive already come off once on my 14" because a pedal clipped a large rock

MSuper3 sports the biggest and highest pedals to date (specs).

[nomad]

Don't forget the trolley handle! My wheel is only 12kg (v5f+) and the first couple of weeks I did not mount it because I thought it was not so necessary and this being my first wheel I didn't want to damage it as it's an external accessory which makes it easier to break in a crash. Anyway now I use the trolley all the time, this is really a must on these heavier wheels! Also consider waiting for the 1640Wh M3 as offroad will suck extra battery.

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

I don't think you'll ever see @EUC Extreme riding off road on an IPS.    I do hear that the IPS Lhotz is an all around winner, but that wacky shaped battery pack limits maximum range and expansion.

[vdubers]

On 8/26/2016 at 5:48 AM, nomad said:

Don't forget the trolley handle! My wheel is only 12kg (v5f+) and the first couple of weeks I did not mount it because I thought it was not so necessary and this being my first wheel I didn't want to damage it as it's an external accessory which makes it easier to break in a crash. Anyway now I use the trolley all the time, this is really a must on these heavier wheels! Also consider waiting for the 1640Wh M3 as offroad will suck extra battery.

Yeah that is an added bonus as at the moment i walk it past dogs so i can control my dog at the same time. I would love the 1640wh one but i just cant afford it. Tbh looking at the prices if i was to get a msuper v3 i think it would have to be the 680wh one. I just cant justify spending anymore when its only for fun 

On 8/26/2016 at 7:24 AM, HunkaHunkaBurningLove said:

I don't think you'll ever see @EUC Extreme riding off road on an IPS.    I do hear that the IPS Lhotz is an all around winner, but that wacky shaped battery pack limits maximum range and expansion.

Ive seen some of his videos posted actually and im always impressed. I dont plan on replicating anything like that though. Woodland tracks is about as extreme as it would get for me haha

[MaxLinux]

On ‎8‎/‎26‎/‎2016 at 2:24 AM, HunkaHunkaBurningLove said:

I don't think you'll ever see @EUC Extreme riding off road on an IPS.    I do hear that the IPS Lhotz is an all around winner, but that wacky shaped battery pack limits maximum range and expansion.

IPS markets the Lhotz as an off-road wheel. However, as an Lhotz owner, although I believe it would be great for off-road riding, I doubt it could handle EUC Extreme's style of riding. I never ride my Lhotz off-road, but I think the Lhotz with its heavy-duty design has advantages for regular riding, because even when not off-road, rocks, bumps, cracks, etc. are plentiful, and the Lhotz provides a very confident, relaxing ride over such surfaces. Also very important, it delivers plenty of torque when needed for hill climbing or sudden maneuvers. The 340wh battery capacity of the Lhotz is perfect for me, but I can understand how some people would find 340wh insufficient.

[The Fat Unicyclist]

2 hours ago, MaxLinux said:

IPS markets the Lhotz as an off-road wheel. However, as an Lhotz owner, although I believe it would be great for off-road riding, I doubt it could handle EUC Extreme's style of riding. I never ride my Lhotz off-road, but I think the Lhotz with its heavy-duty design has advantages for regular riding, because even when not off-road, rocks, bumps, cracks, etc. are plentiful, and the Lhotz provides a very confident, relaxing ride over such surfaces. Also very important, it delivers plenty of torque when needed for hill climbing or sudden maneuvers. The 340wh battery capacity of the Lhotz is perfect for me, but I can understand how some people would find 340wh insufficient.

That is a great summary @MaxLinux, and I can add a bit more... I regularly ride my Lhotz off-road, and the rougher it gets the better it gets (to a point).

I ride deep gravel, dirt tracks, paddocks and river banks. All of which feel quite comfortable on this wheel. As it doesn't have a protruding battery box though, there isn't as much to grip onto should you leave the ground.

Probably the biggest limitation is the battery size - last week I rode a winding 15km (irregular gravel) "road" into a headwind, with the wheel beeping the whole way (which means I was going ~25kph), but as I got near to the end I had a couple of push-backs when the wheel wasn't able to pull enough power to maintain full speed. Slowing down it recovered straight away, but due to the lower charge level there just wasn't enough to draw from - I finished the ride with about 25% charge left. So a 680Wh Lhotz would be useful. 

[vdubers]

1 hour ago, The Fat Unicyclist said:

That is a great summary @MaxLinux, and I can add a bit more... I regularly ride my Lhotz off-road, and the rougher it gets the better it gets (to a point).

I ride deep gravel, dirt tracks, paddocks and river banks. All of which feel quite comfortable on this wheel. As it doesn't have a protruding battery box though, there isn't as much to grip onto should you leave the ground.

Probably the biggest limitation is the battery size - last week I rode a winding 15km (irregular gravel) "road" into a headwind, with the wheel beeping the whole way (which means I was going ~25kph), but as I got near to the end I had a couple of push-backs when the wheel wasn't able to pull enough power to maintain full speed. Slowing down it recovered straight away, but due to the lower charge level there just wasn't enough to draw from - I finished the ride with about 25% charge left. So a 680Wh Lhotz would be useful. 

First off looks like you have some beautiful areas to ride around! Thanks for your impressions of the Lhotz. I hadn't really considered it but it does sound like it would do the job for what im after. 

[The Fat Unicyclist]

10 minutes ago, vdubers said:

First off looks like you have some beautiful areas to ride around! Thanks for your impressions of the Lhotz. I hadn't really considered it but it does sound like it would do the job for what im after. 

Thanks @vdubers - That was the access road out to the Pencarrow Lighthouse in Wellington.

I should add as well, that my Lhotz runs with a load of over 110kg*. And when I am not wringing it out I would normally get well over 25km from a charge. And it also has no problems getting me up some fairly decent hills - Though again, pushing it uphill will encourage it to ask for a break.

And it is built well too - I am "somewhat tough" on my toys, and I regularly need to bail. With no damage so far, except for;

1. The letters aren't stuck on well and started falling off on the first day (first fall) - but it looks way nicer without them anyway, so I pulled them all off.
    
2. The (expected) scuffing from falls. But it isn't really noticeable thanks to the matt-black finish, which does a great job of hiding my punishment.

 

* Note: Actual weight depends on the size of the current lunch included in the users backpack.

[MaxLinux]

2 hours ago, The Fat Unicyclist said:

I finished the ride with about 25% charge left. So a 680Wh Lhotz would be useful. 

Have you seen the Lhotz 191 Plus? It has a 680wh battery.

The following is from http://ipselectricunicycle.com/bbx/222147-222147.html

[The Fat Unicyclist]

Just now, MaxLinux said:

Have you seen the Lhotz 191 Plus? It has a 680wh battery.

I wish - I've been caught out / excited by this before - but it isn't really an EUC, it is a pair of Lhotz connected with a pivoting platform...

 

 

But if I can get Mrs. Fat Unicyclist into this, I would be tempted to get her an IPS191 and then get one of those platforms!

[MaxLinux]

1 hour ago, The Fat Unicyclist said:

The letters aren't stuck on well and started falling off on the first day (first fall) - but it looks way nicer without them anyway, so I pulled them all off.

My letters also began falling off on the first day, and I also removed the remaining ones (very easy), and I also like the appearance better without them!

[The Fat Unicyclist]

4 minutes ago, MaxLinux said:

My letters also began falling off on the first day, and I also removed the remaining ones (very easy), and I also like the appearance better without them!

I call it "stealth mode" - once it is just a matt-black wheel (with lights turned off), it is the perfect compliment to my Fat Unicyclist Ninja Skills™.

[vdubers]

Thanks for the help I ended up taking the plunge and went for a msuper v3. I could only justify the 680wh model but im sure it will be a massive improvement over my current tiny 130wh generic one. Its just shipped from china so looking forward to receiving it here in the UK in the next couple of weeks hopefully 

[Donafello]

5 hours ago, vdubers said:

Thanks for the help I ended up taking the plunge and went for a msuper v3. I could only justify the 680wh model but im sure it will be a massive improvement over my current tiny 130wh generic one. Its just shipped from china so looking forward to receiving it here in the UK in the next couple of weeks hopefully 

Who did you order from?

[Hunka Hunka Burning Love]

I have this feeling that you will find it like going from an old Honda Civic to a brand new Porsche 911 after viewing EUC Extreme's latest video.  Congrats on the pick and stay safe!

[RFC3092]

On 8/25/2016 at 10:15 PM, KingSong69 said:

heavy rain is more or less a no go on all EUC's

What constitutes heavy rain? Was just out off-road in what I'd describe as "very wet weather" in Norway on the V2 and it's OK. Gaffa taped seams though. Didn't stop to measure all the puddles I went through, but a few went up to the casing.

The V2 seems pretty water resistant to me. I commute to work with it, a 10 km ride, in all kinds of weather except snow. No qualms about rain at all.