SeabirdHH Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 I regret to have heated up this pedal discussion, especially with the pictures I've posted. Today, after a 20km ride - to see if there are any changes - I had a very close look with a magnifying glass (!). Those so-called haireline cracks, on my pedals, are definitely no haireline cracks but imperfections from casting, what @HEC very soon supposed. But nonetheless - every wheeler should always keep a close eye on the condition of his pedals! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxLinux Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 1 hour ago, EricGhost said: So clever manufactures will pay attention to our complains and issues in this forum if they are interested in a market growth This is very important for manufacturers, because only a few bad comments will scare away customers. Similarly, favorable comments from customers and reviewers can be a major factor in winning new customers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reivax Posted July 17, 2016 Author Share Posted July 17, 2016 12 minutes ago, SeabirdHH said: I regret to have heated up this pedal discussion, especially with the pictures I've posted. Today, after a 20km ride - to see if there are any changes - I had a very close look with a magnifying glass (!). Those so-called haireline cracks, on my pedals, are definitely no haireline cracks but imperfections from casting, what @HEC very soon supposed. But nonetheless - every wheeler should always keep a close eye on the condition of his pedals! Wow. You said the exact opposite earlier and even tested the crack with a pin ! Will you replace them anyway ? Did you get an interesting offer by your reseller ? From @1RadWerkstatt who also lives in Germany ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 11 minutes ago, Reivax said: Wow. You said the exact opposite earlier and even tested the crack with a pin ! Will you replace them anyway ? Did you get an interesting offer by your reseller ? From @1RadWerkstatt who also lives in Germany ? come on @Reivax..... cool down the discussion ;-) everbody can change his mind?! or? and before you say: ks69 has been bought...look at my signature.... like i said before: poor communication from kingsong....but at least they changed the pedals :-) and know at least, thanx to your warnings, everyone takes a look a his pedals....i have done also on my new 18 and be happy that i already have the new version! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reivax Posted July 17, 2016 Author Share Posted July 17, 2016 Well okay sorry, I was a bit harsh, but the coincidence is just too funny to not notice it. And to me, checking with a pin would mean the pin goes down in the crack, which it wouldn't on a casting seam. What check was done with a pin, then, I wonder. But then if you read again my earlier replies, I didn't really agree on the marks shown by the red arrows on @SeabirdHH photos, that I said I thought could be cast seams, and was more worried by one I emphasized with a yellow arrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 20 hours ago, OliverH said: We're all beta testers/ crash dummies and we do it for free. Not for free... the riders pay to be beta-testers themselves But yeah, as usual, "stuff like this shouldn't happen". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurgen Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 22 hours ago, OliverH said: It's a horrible business. We're all beta testers/ crash dummies and we do it for free. This stuff is not tested at all or not with figures being advertised. your ride 4 models of different brands, which one never had any problems? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve454 Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 4 minutes ago, Jurgen said: your ride 4 models of different brands, which one never had any problems? And please rate them which is your favorite, the Gotway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurgen Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 6 hours ago, EricGhost said: So clever manufactures will pay attention to our complains and issues in this forum if they are interested in a market growth, Uniwheel begs to differ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OliverH Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 36 minutes ago, Jurgen said: your ride 4 models of different brands, which one never had any problems? IPS (my old one), not poserful enough, battery to small, motor blocking when hot. Good for plain roads, pedals scratching the floor on urban roads, Ninebot e (my wife's old one), nice to watch, work in progress (firmware), difficult to choose the best/ less worth firmware. I would never buy again a Ninebot, MSuper (my one), after the internal charger plug issue was fixed, a good touring EUC. KS16 (my wife's one), pedal problem, nervous riding, very good trolley handle, but bought to ride it. It was not my choice, it's definetly not my favour. The MSuper is currently the best fit to me. No one is perfect or more than good. A good intermediate EUC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OliverH Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 41 minutes ago, steve454 said: And please rate them which is your favorite, the Gotway? The MSuper us currently the best for me, that's all. Missing BT Support for iPhone. Gotway has no lifecycle plan for old models/ Apps. No Upgrade path (BT4/ LE, new Firmware), no firmware upgrades via App. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OliverH Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 2 hours ago, esaj said: Not for free... the riders pay to be beta-testers themselves But yeah, as usual, "stuff like this shouldn't happen". After my holidays I need to check the pedals of the KS16. A short look doesn't make me happy. Maybe a reason to change over to an ACM with 12 MOSFETs and big pedals and hand the KS16 over yo the kids where the pedal issue is no issue. The Ninebot could than be eliminated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricGhost Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 27 minutes ago, OliverH said: KS16 (my wife's one), pedal problem, nervous riding, very good trolley handle, but bought to ride it. It was not my choice, it's definetly not my favour. What do you mean by nervous riding?!?! KS16 is my 1rst experience and so far after 240km I do not feel anything like nervous in it's behaviour but I'm lacking the possibilty to compare as it's the 1rst and only one so far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1RadWerkstatt Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 After all repairs i can say all Wheels have problems....little or bigger but generally all high tech products have problems. Many new cars (VW, Mercedes, Audi all other brands) have issues or problems. I repair parallel pinball games and other stuff and i must say this machines have many many problems but overall it is extrem great stuff and for me every issue is new fun. Over 300 controled Lamp´s, many high power coils, complex 128x64 dot matrix display, complex switch matrix.... In new 1RadWerkstatt work room´s you can test play for free. Every complex product can have a imperfection. Wich Wheel is better question.... Every person is different...one say ninebot is best other one say GotWay other KingSong.... i can say it is more complex... Example from OliverH (sorry) that is not ok to say in public forum "pedal problem, nervous riding" that is only your opinion. I have drive "all(not real all)" Wheels from "all" Brand´s and can absolutly not say nervous riding from a KS16... I can also say: stupid short pedals on MCM2s and MCM3 and ACM now but other say it is ok....and yes all is ok...it is my opinion But i can say (this is real) 12 Mosfet´s is electrical trash!(you can make this on hobby table when you have not the right parts on hand) You can stack stones for a wall but not MosFet´s for HighPower. When a car need´s more Engine Power you can put a Engine on top to the other Engine and can not see to the Street in fact the right way is one larger Engine with more Power. When you double MosFet´s on one side is split current but Energy is fast and very exact one MosFet switch faster on later one is internal a little bit different and more stress to the gate driver...many electrical things...other side you double the failure in MosFet self....wrong way is stacking... You can buy one MosFet with can handle hundreds of Ampere or a module with 6 matching MosFet´s in one case...this and only this is the right way. Problem in all Wheels is mounting a MosFet correct...first: stupid 1mm thick heat conductive rubber (stupid stuff) second: mounting in the corner from the heat sink third: mechnical stress...screw mosfet with soft rubber on heat sink.....all not OK.... one industrial case (IGBT) with correct internal mounting and.....work And many other things.....but EUC´s absolute great stuff!! 1RadWerkstatt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OliverH Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 15 minutes ago, 1RadWerkstatt said: After all repairs i can say all Wheels have problems....little or bigger but generally all high tech products have problems. Many new cars (VW, Mercedes, Audi all other brands) have issues or problems. I repair parallel pinball games and other stuff and i must say this machines have many many problems but overall it is extrem great stuff and for me every issue is new fun. Over 300 controled Lamp´s, many high power coils, complex 128x64 dot matrix display, complex switch matrix.... In new 1RadWerkstatt work room´s you can test play for free. Every complex product can have a imperfection. Wich Wheel is better question.... Every person is different...one say ninebot is best other one say GotWay other KingSong.... i can say it is more complex... Example from OliverH (sorry) that is not ok to say in public forum "pedal problem, nervous riding" that is only your opinion. I have drive "all(not real all)" Wheels from "all" Brand´s and can absolutly not say nervous riding from a KS16... I can also say: stupid short pedals on MCM2s and MCM3 and ACM now but other say it is ok....and yes all is ok...it is my opinion But i can say (this is real) 12 Mosfet´s is electrical trash!(you can make this on hobby table when you have not the right parts on hand) You can stack stones for a wall but not MosFet´s for HighPower. When a car need´s more Engine Power you can put a Engine on top to the other Engine and can not see to the Street in fact the right way is one larger Engine with more Power. When you double MosFet´s on one side is split current but Energy is fast and very exact one MosFet switch faster on later one is internal a little bit different and more stress to the gate driver...many electrical things...other side you double the failure in MosFet self....wrong way is stacking... You can buy one MosFet with can handle hundreds of Ampere or a module with 6 matching MosFet´s in one case...this and only this is the right way. Problem in all Wheels is mounting a MosFet correct...first: stupid 1mm thick heat conductive rubber (stupid stuff) second: mounting in the corner from the heat sink third: mechnical stress...screw mosfet with soft rubber on heat sink.....all not OK.... one industrial case (IGBT) with correct internal mounting and.....work And many other things.....but EUC´s absolute great stuff!! 1RadWerkstatt I can only say what's my impression/ my opinion. If the feels are not 100% aligned (never driven an EUC where it needs so much aligned) and you need to ride very close to the right side on a French department road it could be strange. Constantly keeping the path. Never had this feeling on my old IPS it on the MSuper. I'm a fat EUC rider so maybe I feel an EUC different to other light weight riders. My wife describing the exact feeling. Up to know only driven in madden mode on FW 1.15 (as far a I don't know how they test to have trust I keep on this version). I know other guys which are happy with the KS16 but not using it on tours. Beside the overheating of the Mainboard I like the KS18 much more. i don't like the high pedals on the Ninebot. As it's less powerful than the IPS and struggles on inclines with me on top I've never driven it on long tours. In summer (25+ outside) the temperature warning comes to early, but lighter riders having this issue also. The EUC business is on the early beginning of an evolution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve454 Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 30 minutes ago, OliverH said: The EUC business is on the early beginning of an evolution Where do you think it is going? It is amazing what EUC's can do now, balancing a 200 pound weight at speeds up to 12-15 mph! I see instant warning that something is about to go bad, like on board diagnostics setting a check engine light on cars does now. And I'm talking about me, I weigh over 200 while riding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve454 Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 On 7/15/2016 at 3:09 AM, Reivax said: KS finally came up with a new design for its pedals, that is supposed to fix their weakness. Even while the KS16 is said to be able to bear 150 Kg (LOL), I know 4 instances of people weighting around 100Kg breaking pedals, which is unheard of with other wheel brands, to my knowledge. One of my friends who is 70 Kg just checked his, and here is what he found out on the underside. It looks like porosity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reivax Posted July 18, 2016 Author Share Posted July 18, 2016 Thanks @steve454 for returning to the original subject. I guess @1RadWerkstatt is not selling gotways, lol. @steve454, porosity in an item that is supposed to bear 150kg (so of course much more in peak) is not something to worry about ? I do not agree about this picture, but I had the real thing under my eyes. But you are right about the porosity anyway, it is porosity that you can see in the picture posted on a French forum from a broken pedal: https://www.espritroue.fr/topic/884-accident-pédale-cassé/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 7 hours ago, 1RadWerkstatt said: ...You can buy one MosFet with can handle hundreds of Ampere or a module with 6 matching MosFet´s in one case...this and only this is the right way. Problem in all Wheels is mounting a MosFet correct...first: stupid 1mm thick heat conductive rubber (stupid stuff) second: mounting in the corner from the heat sink third: mechnical stress...screw mosfet with soft rubber on heat sink.....all not OK.... one industrial case (IGBT) with correct internal mounting and.....work And many other things.....but EUC´s absolute great stuff!! 1RadWerkstatt It appears that most EUC boards are always using either 6 or 12 MOSTFETs. If the answer is that obvious to use IGBT instead or higher rated MOSEFTs, why haven't the controller board designers done so with new versions? A multimillion dollar company like Ninebot with huge backing from Xiaomi should have a few knowledgeable electrical engineers on hand. Wouldn't you think that they could have come up with some smarter solutions? I'd love to see a burn out proof controller, but maybe there's some reason they are sticking to this 6 or 12 design. Do you think you could modify a controller to work with IGBT's or higher rated MOSFETs or would it take an entirely re-engineered board to do so? Regarding these pedal failures I don't think they should ever exist even under extreme conditions just like the pedal support pin should never fail. Maybe failure would be acceptable if a car crashed into the pedal or if it fell from a great height but not from under a user's weight. It just shouldn't happen under regular or extreme usage. Looking at the pedal design it appears that the pedal acts as a breaking lever that exerts quite a bit of force against the support flange. Add in a magnesium metal alloy that requires special forging precautions to avoid cracking, and I can see why these fractures may be happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 6 hours ago, OliverH said: I can only say what's my impression/ my opinion. If the feels are not 100% aligned (never driven an EUC where it needs so much aligned) and you need to ride very close to the right side on a French department road it could be strange. Constantly keeping the path. Never had this feeling on my old IPS it on the MSuper. I'm a fat EUC rider so maybe I feel an EUC different to other light weight riders. My wife describing the exact feeling. Up to know only driven in madden mode on FW 1.15 (as far a I don't know how they test to have trust I keep on this version). I know other guys which are happy with the KS16 but not using it on tours. Beside the overheating of the Mainboard I like the KS18 much more. i don't like the high pedals on the Ninebot. As it's less powerful than the IPS and struggles on inclines with me on top I've never driven it on long tours. In summer (25+ outside) the temperature warning comes to early, but lighter riders having this issue also. The EUC business is on the early beginning of an evolution. Hy Oliver, from my experience with the Ks16: on my first rides with the Thai guys i was "nearly afraid" that it claps to the right or left....so bad alignment.....nervous in the End, as i am a very heavy person also, all that was missing is enough air in the tyre...the thais are much lighter so they did not fill up enough! after ebough air was in, perfect allignment, no nervosness any more! As you are an experienced rider, i can not think that that is the fault....but who knows? perhaps you just try it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 41 minutes ago, Reivax said: I guess @1RadWerkstatt is not selling gotways, lol. You are wrong... He is one of the "main" distributor in Germany for ALL kind of Euc's...ninebot, airwheel, ips, gotway, kingsong.... so no need to think that he is Gotway bashing when he is talking about wrong done mosfets or to small pedals on gw! its kind of a bit hard for distributors, pro-repairers here in discussion, Or? in one way we want to know and learn from there experience and get as much tips and secrets from them... On the other hand: when they state their personal opinion it is often marked as an special brand bashing and pushing their interests! on "pro" forums because of that, distributors are not allowed to do anythinig otherwise than advertising in a special sub-forum..... as we are just a little small group of freaks a....ok paris has some more of them :-) am at least happy that he is sharing his experience and not staying quiet my 2 cents... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reivax Posted July 18, 2016 Author Share Posted July 18, 2016 1 hour ago, KingSong69 said: You are wrong... (...) as we are just a little small group of freaks a....ok paris has some more of them :-) am at least happy that he is sharing his experience and not staying quiet my 2 cents... Ok and I'm glad to be wrong. I'm also glad he shares his experience. What I resent is when he says no pedal broke, when they break it is smooth, users break pedals because they don't know how to use a wheel, and there is no pedal issue while KS came up with two new designs. He said all that, and all that is neither information or experience. If he were not a reseller, it would be ignorance or just wrong personal belief, and we all have such flaws. Being a reseller, it makes it more than suspect, to me. When customers report facts, makers and resellers need to listen, instead of saying it's not true, or you are not riding right. If they don't, then of course they are suspected of just being here to sell their goods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OliverH Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 8 hours ago, steve454 said: Where do you think it is going? It is amazing what EUC's can do now, balancing a 200 pound weight at speeds up to 12-15 mph! I see instant warning that something is about to go bad, like on board diagnostics setting a check engine light on cars does now. And I'm talking about me, I weigh over 200 while riding. It can become a real personal transportation vehicle to use everywhere. With better behaviour handlings and a safety power/ steering/ drive train. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OliverH Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 2 hours ago, KingSong69 said: Hy Oliver, from my experience with the Ks16: on my first rides with the Thai guys i was "nearly afraid" that it claps to the right or left....so bad alignment.....nervous in the End, as i am a very heavy person also, all that was missing is enough air in the tyre...the thais are much lighter so they did not fill up enough! after ebough air was in, perfect allignment, no nervosness any more! As you are an experienced rider, i can not think that that is the fault....but who knows? perhaps you just try it.... Tire is on max pressure. My wife didn't have my weight, she has the same problem. Comparison: Take a Firewheel F779 and it goes like a charme. The case is between your legs and you can ride it that it don't touch your legs. No nervous driving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OliverH Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 9 hours ago, 1RadWerkstatt said: When a car need´s more Engine Power you can put a Engine on top to the other Engine and can not see to the Street in fact the right way is one larger Engine with more Power. When you double MosFet´s on one side is split current but Energy is fast and very exact one MosFet switch faster on later one is internal a little bit different and more stress to the gate driver...many electrical things...other side you double the failure in MosFet self....wrong way is stacking... A stronger engine gives you more margin in a behaviour handling. Than it can fix this special use case. And yes we need more power in the right rpm area. But safety is more than that. It's also about failure (rate). A safety concept is a complex document. Safety doesn't start when you need to go for approval testing, it starts in the first stage of developing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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