Reivax Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 KS finally came up with a new design for its pedals, that is supposed to fix their weakness. Even while the KS16 is said to be able to bear 150 Kg (LOL), I know 4 instances of people weighting around 100Kg breaking pedals, which is unheard of with other wheel brands, to my knowledge. One of my friends who is 70 Kg just checked his, and here is what he found out on the underside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeabirdHH Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 @Reivax After I saw your pedal picture, I turnded upside down my KS16 and I also found on all 4 sides those hairline fractures. It's a question of time and they will brake. I'm gonna contact my seller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reivax Posted July 15, 2016 Author Share Posted July 15, 2016 Great ! Glad you did check them before it was too late ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEC Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Maybe @Jason McNeil can comment or ask KingSong about this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEC Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 27 minutes ago, SeabirdHH said: Are you sure those are actual cracks rather than imperfections from casting? Mine looks exactly the same How many Km have you ridden it so far? What's your weight and what terrain? Where / when did you purchase it from? EDIT: Can anyone take detailed pictures of those on brand new(-ish) wheel please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeabirdHH Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 I bought my KS16B (new) on 27/04/16, in Germany. In my opinion those "lines" are no imperfections from casting. I have ridden about 400Km. My weight 90 kg. Solid forest lanes/pathes. Here a picture of Kingsong KS16 pedals V.2. I found it in the french forum. You see clearly the reinforcements. See also: https://www.espritroue.fr/topic/884-accident-pédale-cassé/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pingouin Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Hi, I had one of my friends, who weights 85kg, who had his right pedal who slightly movend inwards, making contact with something that made noise while riding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flass Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 This is a bit worrisome. I will need to check mine too, but it is just one week old so they are probably still OK. But I expect Kingsong to issue a replacement program if this is a general fatigue fault on all their pedals... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpMaster Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 I just checked mine and I see no issues. I weigh about 85kg and according to the app I've covered 200K. But I have V2 pedals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason McNeil Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 The latest information I had is that around 5% of pedals had developed fractures. A month back KS changed the casting from Aluminum to a Magnesium alloy, which is supposed to increase the strength at the vertical/horizontal joint. When first told about the change, I asked about the statistics of failure in the original material; was told there were no failures, but was changed simply to reduce the risk of metal fatigue—this is not quite true.... The good news is that where the failures do occur, they are [reputed to be] progressive & do not just snap off. Our policy is that we will send out replacements if any cracks develop. Evidence I've seen so far is that it might be a production batch specific issue, rather than a flaw in the casting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 2 hours ago, flass said: This is a bit worrisome. I will need to check mine too, but it is just one week old so they are probably still OK. But I expect Kingsong to issue a replacement program if this is a general fatigue fault on all their pedals... Replacement Programm??? haha....good Joke, really! As they are not Volkswagen and just a very small chinese company....and it would be the first repl. "programm" i heave heard in EUC world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OliverH Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 My wife's KS16 looks like to have the problem on both sides. I told her to buy an ACM but she decided to get a KS16.. 2 hours ago, Jason McNeil said: The latest information I had is that around 5% of pedals had developed fractures. A month back KS changed the casting from Aluminum to a Magnesium alloy, which is supposed to increase the strength at the vertical/horizontal joint. When first told about the change, I asked about the statistics of failure in the original material; was told there were no failures, but was changed simply to reduce the risk of metal fatigue—this is not quite true.... The good news is that where the failures do occur, they are progressive & do not just snap off. Our policy is that we will send out replacements if any cracks develop. Evidence I've seen so far is that it might be a production batch specific issue, rather than a flaw in the casting. I know alloy/ magnesium as rims from my car. I've changed 2 rims because of fractures/ air pressure lost. I'm not a fan of this mix. In the wrong mixture it's weak like hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason McNeil Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 12 minutes ago, OliverH said: I know alloy/ magnesium as rims from my car. I've changed 2 rims because of fractures/ air pressure lost. I'm not a fan of this mix. In the wrong mixture it's weak like hell. Old pedals = aluminum, new pedals = magnesium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OliverH Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Just now, Jason McNeil said: Old pedals = aluminum, new pedals = magnesium. Yes. And I'm not a magnesium fan. Only good when professionals do the casting stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reivax Posted July 15, 2016 Author Share Posted July 15, 2016 2 hours ago, Jason McNeil said: I asked about the statistics of failure in the original material; was told there were no failures,... The good news is that where the failures do occur, they are progressive & do not just snap off. So there is no failure, but when there is, it's progressive ?? There is, or there is not ??? Sorry this is simply not true. I know four people who had a pedal break, and it was sudden. The very first one was as early as March, and I admit the guy did jump from a little high. But then he was far from 150kg ! It was wit a KS 16 prototype. KS was notified about this issue and they said they fixed it. As for the one I published a picture of, it never jumped more than 4 inches. I wish KS just admitted there is an issue. Here is the latest one from someone I do not personally know: https://www.espritroue.fr/topic/884-accident-pédale-cassé/ Check the picture, it broke exactly where we see cracks on the picture I posted. I can't tell for sure about the next pics, nothing matches an inspection on the wheel itself, of course. Look at all the bubbles in the cast metal where it broke ! The first EUCs didn't have cast metal, but just plain, and for a good reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason McNeil Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Thanks for sharing! Is the picture from the 'improved' magnesium version? I definitely agree that KS (and some others) ought to be doing a lot more limit testing, finding out exactly how strong/powerful the stuff is before it's sent out in the wild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OliverH Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 I need to talk regarding upcoming PLEV standard. There's one big chapter fatigue test. In my opinion this was no issue in EUC business. History tells now a different story. The problem in this business: There's missing professionality like in automotive business. This EUC companies are so small. But this companies advertise their wheels capable to run 30+ km/h. ACM knocks on the 40 km/h door. Next generation may be go even faster. The electronics (mainboards) are not safety, the frame are not fatigue tested. There's no excuse about this failure. This should have been found and fixed in inhouse tests (quality/ service management). There're humans riding this EUCs. This EUCs are no toys. There's no F2 button (Play game again) after a faceplant and a game lifescore - that's reality. The current EUC companies are terminating the business by self. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reivax Posted July 15, 2016 Author Share Posted July 15, 2016 1 hour ago, Jason McNeil said: Thanks for sharing! Is the picture from the 'improved' magnesium version? I don't think so, since the form factor is different too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason McNeil Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 1 minute ago, Reivax said: I don't think so, since the form factor is different too. The new pedal design originally came in aluminum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reivax Posted July 15, 2016 Author Share Posted July 15, 2016 Just now, Jason McNeil said: That's not correct, the new pedal design originally came in aluminum. Oh okay I didn't know that, thanks. So it means that even the new design was not enough to fix the issue? @SeabirdHH about your picture, I'm not sure about the marks shown by your arrows, they could be cast prints. I'm more worried by the one I shown below with the yellow arrow: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeabirdHH Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 @ReivaxCast prints mostly are raised, but the marks shown by the red arrows are more like furrows ... I've tested it with a pin. The mark shown by your yellow arrow doesn't seem to be "dangerous". That could perhaps be a sort of cast print. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reivax Posted July 16, 2016 Author Share Posted July 16, 2016 10 hours ago, SeabirdHH said: @ReivaxCast prints mostly are raised, but the marks shown by the red arrows are more like furrows ... I've tested it with a pin. The mark shown by your yellow arrow doesn't seem to be "dangerous". That could perhaps be a sort of cast print. Really ? Haha, as I said, nothing like a real close examination with your own eyes. Good idea, the pin trick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEC Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 14 hours ago, Jason McNeil said: Old pedals = aluminum, new pedals = magnesium. 11 hours ago, Jason McNeil said: The new pedal design originally came in aluminum. Just to be sure here - were any KS16 made / shipped lately with V2 pedals made of Aluminium or all V2s were only Magnesium ones? As your second statement @Jason McNeil makes it a bit unclear .... If both were used is there a way to distinquish between them? By colour, serial numbers etc. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricGhost Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 I checked my two pedals on a ks16 purchased on 27june2016, but who knows about the production stock, 230km so far only one pedal with the same signs on only one side. In principle 90deg junctions are a mechanical bad engineering, even if the workload in this case it's vertical while the critical section is in the forward/backward direction of the wheel motion and of a possible applied force. Anyhow the best is to have a test with a penetration dye liquid to be sure i.e. http://atrona.com/liquid-dye-testing.html, cracks are subtle SOB as their propagation is exponential so when you see something by your eyes you're near the the break point, and if you miss to see it ........ Hope you do not crack as well with your pedal https://www.grainger.com/category/dye-penetrants-and-inspection-kits/welding-chemicals/welding/ecatalog/N-nad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1RadWerkstatt Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 I have check on new "old style" Pedals and on new wheels with old pedals. All clear, this are no issues! This scratches is from Mold opening area during manufacturing. We have the same optics on pedals who never stand a person on it! And second thing: from beginning to now, no Pedal is broken in this area. And we have heavy riders over 120kg and no problems on all Wheels KS14 to KS18 inch. I can make pic´s from new Pedals with same optics. Later the manufacture from pedal´s grind over this area for better look. But yes, the 90deg sharp edge is not good but this is discontinued. In conclusion when you see a real scratch in this area the Pedal is broken 10 minutes later use. No real Scratch and no real issues. Have anybody pic´s from real broken Pedal´s in this case? No i mean. 1RadWerkstatt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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