Reivax Posted July 16, 2016 Author Share Posted July 16, 2016 6 minutes ago, 1RadWerkstatt said: I have check on new "old style" Pedals and on new wheels with old pedals. All clear, this are no issues! This scratches is from Mold opening area during manufacturing. We have the same optics on pedals who never stand a person on it! And second thing: from beginning to now, no Pedal is broken in this area. And we have heavy riders over 120kg and no problems on all Wheels KS14 to KS18 inch. I can make pic´s from new Pedals with same optics. Later the manufacture from pedal´s grind over this area for better look. But yes, the 90deg sharp edge is not good but this is discontinued. In conclusion when you see a real scratch in this area the Pedal is broken 10 minutes later use. No real Scratch and no real issues. Have anybody pic´s from real broken Pedal´s in this case? No i mean. 1RadWerkstatt I am telling you I KNOW people who broke pedals !! Stop saying no pedal broke !! Check the picture on the link I provided, that is just one more case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 26 minutes ago, 1RadWerkstatt said: I have check on new "old style" Pedals and on new wheels with old pedals. All clear, this are no issues! Have anybody pic´s from real broken Pedal´s in this case? No i mean. just look here: https://www.espritroue.fr/topic/884-accident-pédale-cassé/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1RadWerkstatt Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 I can see one picture but is this from normal driving? But again...this optics are no issues...same on new never used Pedals this is not only saying this is real. Coustomers from me can become new Pedals for free when real scratches on it. We can grind in the surface to check for scratches. And i say not "no pedal broke" but you must check the story before how it broke. I have a KS16-A (real Prototype) with over 1000km on it with same optics on pedals....for me no need to change...an we have jumped over 50cm down to hard surface with this Wheel...pedal is now on the Wheel. This is only panic make and again no KingSong Wheel in Germany with broken Pedal´s is this not the approval? Germany rider´s are not lightwight and many riders use it hard. Not many things in the World are infinite stable. When you smash with your car to a wall many things are broken but this is not an issue. Better question: what is normal driving with a EUC? OffRoad?(check manual) I say no....but i say it Works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeabirdHH Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 @1RadWerkstattIt would be very instructive to have a picture from a new (!) pedal "old style". If it really looks the same, it could possibly have a calming effect. Do you have the new/actually mounted pedals (V.2) as spare part? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1RadWerkstatt Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 Pic´s from new KS18 with never used Pedals. What we can see is a optic this is only from the cutting line from the casting mold and no real deep scratch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1RadWerkstatt Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 Please check your pic´s and the pic from france guy with broken Pedal again... complete different broken line this broken line is 90deg turn from your optical scratch line. And look at the France Wheel complete...no good optic´s i mean this guy is smashed or other things...no normal driving (and he make foam to a complete useless place why this?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeabirdHH Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 @1RadWerkstattThanks for the picture. It really looks very similar, even worse! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeabirdHH Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 Concerning the foto of the broken pedal of the french wheeler (Boni7Leage), I must agree to the view of @1RadWerkstatt. The great and deep scratches indicate, that he must have strained his wheel quite strongly. The strongest pedals would not stand every sort of (extreme) use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricGhost Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 The positive of this post is that some bad mech design emerged and so in the future I hope I'll see only rounded corners in KS pedals, take always the good out of everything I'm too used to too many mature products that I stopped to check quality design, even if it's quite difficult online Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OliverH Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 1 hour ago, 1RadWerkstatt said: Pic´s from new KS18 with never used Pedals. What we can see is a optic this is only from the cutting line from the casting mold and no real deep scratch. But out this new pedals are showing gas blow in the molding (correct wording?). the pedal has sharp edges and not a smooth radius going from the pedal body to the axle part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reivax Posted July 16, 2016 Author Share Posted July 16, 2016 47 minutes ago, SeabirdHH said: Concerning the foto of the broken pedal of the french wheeler (Boni7Leage), I must agree to the view of @1RadWerkstatt. The great and deep scratches indicate, that he must have strained his wheel quite strongly. The strongest pedals would not stand every sort of (extreme) use. Well, the pedal broke, so of course It is badly scratched, it came in brutal contact with the road... As for normal driving, he says he was... on a road ! How smoother can it be ? I do not know this one personally but the others I know, and except one who jumped down about 40cm, which I find extreme and would not consider normal driving, the others didn't jump anything more than a pavement height. One is a friend with whom I rode many many times, I know his style. Same for the one who discovered the crack lines, never jumps anything. What I find peculiar is also that I never heard of any other pedal breaking on any other wheel, whatever the riding style. And all other wheels are sold for max load 100 or 120kg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeabirdHH Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 "As for normal driving, he says he was... on a road ! How smoother can it be ?" Ok @Reivax, the moments just before the pedal cracked, he was normal driving on a "smooth" road. But how and where was he driving an half an hour or the days before? The scratches and damages on the pedal do not come from normal driving. It surely was previously damaged. We shouldn't be so naive to believe that the person concerned is really telling the whole truth when he wants to get a new pair of pedals from his seller. "Another one is jumped down about 40 cm" ... another one pavement hight. Those who use their wheel for jumping must live with the breaking-risk of their pedals and even with the risk of damages which are not obvious. The wheels are not designed for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reivax Posted July 16, 2016 Author Share Posted July 16, 2016 Again, don't you expect scratches on a pedal that broke ? It fell on the road, of course it is scratched. As I said I do not know this wheeler personally, but I know others who broke a pedal and they don't jump. I also know many wheelers who jump with their wheels and never broke anything. Like Alexeï here : https://m.facebook.com/Wheelersstore/photos/a.1001523923239880.1073741828.990397921019147/1024717027587236/?type=3&source=54 I just remind you France and especially Paris has a huge wheeler community. But okay, I get it. You guys need to reassure yourselves after buying an expensive wheel by denying reality, or KS resellers like the one who said all is well, no pedal broke so far, and when it does (so, it does or it doesn't ?) it is smooth. Lol. So okay there is no issue. But KS still released two more versions of the pedal: one with a different alloy, then a different design. I wonder why they did that, since no pedal broke... and there is no crack. So let's leave it at that, and sorry all for wasting your time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OliverH Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 It's a horrible business. We're all beta testers/ crash dummies and we do it for free. This stuff is not tested at all or not with figures being advertised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flass Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 4 hours ago, OliverH said: It's a horrible business. We're all beta testers/ crash dummies and we do it for free. This stuff is not tested at all or not with figures being advertised. Well, noone is forcing you to use a EUC. Anyway, cudos to 1RadWerkstatt for bringing som clarity to thi, for me personally this is no longer an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxLinux Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 1 hour ago, flass said: cudos to 1RadWerkstatt Yes, 1RadWerkstatt provides a valuable service to the EUC community. I have enjoyed their YouTube videos in which they evaluate various EUCs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OliverH Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 3 hours ago, flass said: Well, noone is forcing you to use a EUC. Anyway, cudos to 1RadWerkstatt for bringing som clarity to thi, for me personally this is no longer an issue. No one is forcing me, that's right. Regulation should force the manufacturer to deliver in a tested quality. My feeling is that there's no safety approach while developing this products and no testing. I like the skilsl and approach from Chris Hettenhausen @1RadWerkstatt. He's one of the guys doing revolutions and giving feedback to the manufacturer. But there must someone listening to the feedback, understand the reason why to change it and do it. This companies are so small and are not comparable with service/ quality management to companies we know (being bigger) in other areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reivax Posted July 17, 2016 Author Share Posted July 17, 2016 2 hours ago, MaxLinux said: Yes, 1RadWerkstatt provides a valuable service to the EUC community. I have enjoyed their YouTube videos in which they evaluate various EUCs. 4 hours ago, flass said: Well, noone is forcing you to use a EUC. Anyway, cudos to 1RadWerkstatt for bringing som clarity to thi, for me personally this is no longer an issue. Well, you don't expect someone selling KS to easily acknowledge such an issue... My concern is that he already made two wrong statements, saying no pedal broke, and saying when they do, it is smooth and not brutal. Now, when users give feedback, you need not reject their statements by saying they didn't do the right thing with their wheels, because this is also not true. It's just as silly as looking at a wrecked car after an accident and saying its bad state proves it was poorly driven. It is not necessarily true. If there was no pedal issue, why would KS release TWO new ones ? And how many wheels were sold with faulty ones to unsuspecting customers ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reivax Posted July 17, 2016 Author Share Posted July 17, 2016 13 minutes ago, OliverH said: No one is forcing me, that's right. Regulation should force the manufacturer to deliver in a tested quality. My feeling is that there's no safety approach while developing this products and no testing. I like the skilsl and approach from Chris Hettenhausen @1RadWerkstatt. He's one of the guys doing revolutions and giving feedback to the manufacturer. But there must someone listening to the feedback, understand the reason why to change it and do it. This companies are so small and are not comparable with service/ quality management to companies we know (being bigger) in other areas. Well, to their credit, they did listen and react, since they came up with two new designs. But they did that very quietly, to save money. Not all old pedal will break, of course, but customers were not informed properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OliverH Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 6 minutes ago, Reivax said: Well, to their credit, they did listen and react, since they came up with two new designs. But they did that very quietly, to save money. Not all old pedal will break, of course, but customers were not informed properly. They're not forced to do a "call in for service" as you know it from cars. They've no statement on their website. It's a safety part. I need to ride this KS on every tour as my wife has problems on this pedals and can't ride more than 3-4 km on it. I'm a 100+ kg guy. So I like to be comfortable and like to have a safety feeling when riding it. We ride street and urban roads, so no stress, no jumps only small pavements. As I don't like the driving style I try to push my wife to change to an other EUC. But it's better to wait for next year with all the progress is going on back stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DS Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 1 hour ago, OliverH said: Regulation should force the manufacturer to deliver in a tested quality. I think that we, the eager EUC riders also contribute for that situation of no regulation. If we have to wait for an official government regulation for the EUC as a safety transport vehicle, I guess years would pass in bureaucracy in most countries. We are pushing the process ordering wheels pretending being toys through post couriers and in this way workaround the needed regulation. This a tradeoff situation - the quality and reliability of some EUC parts are in direct relation with the rider safety but the necessary regulation is against the two strong desires: of the clients to ride and of the manufactures to sell and make money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OliverH Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 1 hour ago, DS said: I think that we, the eager EUC riders also contribute for that situation of no regulation. If we have to wait for an official government regulation for the EUC as a safety transport vehicle, I guess years would pass in bureaucracy in most countries. We are pushing the process ordering wheels pretending being toys through post couriers and in this way workaround the needed regulation. This a tradeoff situation - the quality and reliability of some EUC parts are in direct relation with the rider safety but the necessary regulation is against the two strong desires: of the clients to ride and of the manufactures to sell and make money. As the EUC grows we're more visible. More visibility is giving us more attention from authorities. A negative visibility will call for fast/ heavy regulations. Look at the "success" of the balance board. Bad quality, bad reputation, sizing at customs,.. If the manufacturers are following the current path they terminate the business at least in Europe. Or they do a mind change, reskilling. Anyway, history will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tbx Nicolas Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 I personaly know two people who broke their pedals, they weight more than 100kg and did not do high jumps or things that would stress exessively the material. For the first person the pedal broke suddenly white going down a small curve, and for the second, we noticed it just before it break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 Ok, to get it together...conclusion: There IS an issue with the first versions of the pedals or with the first material.....or better: there can be-TAKE ATTENTION.... As i have a new KS18 with motor production date of late april....Kingsong has seen this issue and changed the pedal! on this end april Ks18 is have the newer version installed....which has a rounded edge at the end...and no screws anymore on the pedal! we all could come together, that they could have communicate this Issue better...and not have sit still! Who ever ordered his wheel by one of our trusted selles like @Jason McNeil or @1RadWerkstatt or some other like kingsong france....is in the lucky position to get new pedals...WHEN there are real cracks or it is broken....but not on general as a complete replacement programm....which i would find also a little bit to much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricGhost Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 This forum is a powerful tool in such a small market, it can drive manufacturer, I am a newby on EUC I spent a month reading about different EUCs and took my decisions on where to spend my money based on what I read within this forum, if I sniffed bad support or throw in the wild products and so on I moved my attention elsewhere. I choose KS16 because of 16" I read about stability, because ksfrance support, because 1rst release jan2016 and in june 2016already some significant fixing always news from this forum, .... and so on and thanks to this forum I took a decision I'm enjoying without regrets So clever manufactures will pay attention to our complains and issues in this forum if they are interested in a market growth, my next wheel (my daughter) shall not have 90deg edges on the pedals, if none exists I'll wait in the end my money can rest in the bank account it's the manufacturer tha needs them out of it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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