Tom384 Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 Planemo, it is simply a theory of mine, but there is solid reasoning behind it. Passive balancing works only at the end of the charging cycle. This means that if Begode still relies on passive methods, all wheels unable to reach the final voltage will likely become unbalanced over time. This increases the risk of cutoffs, fires, etc. Moreover, Begode has been aware of this behavior for over a year without addressing it. Thus, it suggests two possibilities: Begode is risking our health, lives, and their revenue by allowing a design flaw to persist for more than a year, which I find hard to believe. They have implemented a different method of battery balancing. I would appreciate confirmation from someone who has disassembled battery packs on 134V Begode wheels to validate one of these possibilities. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
null Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 (edited) 2 hours ago, Planemo said: I can't get that link to work, would you be able to check please? FWIW, my server goes to 11.5A happily, and doesn't 'seem' to be struggling at that which would suggest that it could indeed go to 15A @ 134v if required. I managed to shorten the link to an item ID, this should work better. (Considering its beef and draw from the wall socked I believe it to be legit enough) Regarding the headroom business: As you mentioned In both our cases our chargers are within the wattage we ask of them, and to add: there shouldn't even be a matter of "not man enough" because a weaker charger would just output less Amps, hence any amperage charger (limited by EUC max) works. A charger should not output more current than it is set for. Edited February 16 by null Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planemo Posted February 16 Author Share Posted February 16 1 hour ago, Tom384 said: Planemo, it is simply a theory of mine, but there is solid reasoning behind it. Yeah I can see your thought process, I just assumed it was the same type of balancing system that has been used for years, given that those manufacturers who have improved on their balance systems usually put up a song and dance about it, whereas I haven't seen/read anything in relation to Begode improving things on their 134v wheels except of course the addition of a charge board which removes the hot port issue and seems to allow a vampire drain to prevent wheels being stored at max charge. 49 minutes ago, null said: I managed to shorten the link to an item ID, this should work better. (Considering its beef and draw from the wall socked I believe it to be legit enough) Damn I still can't get that link to work, it's now bringing up a 'this item is not available in your location' error so I still can't see anything! 49 minutes ago, null said: and to add: there shouldn't even be a matter of "not man enough" because a weaker charger would just output less Amps Agreed, anything should work pretty much as long as it's 134.4v. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
null Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 (edited) Heh, they could at least display the item. Here are a few more shops that have the same: shop 1, shop 2 It's fairly run off the mill, not the junkiest one. Segment display on one side, current setting on the other. Edited February 16 by null Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planemo Posted February 16 Author Share Posted February 16 Ah OK I got you, yes I think I remember you posting about this 10A previously. Actually, I was getting mixed up with people/posts in the thread, it was actually @Mrd777's charger that I was meant to be enquiring about, trying to get a link just so I could see if it was similar to the server charger I had. If it is, then his data point of it stopping at about 75% is very relevant. At this stage I am seriously (but very reluctantly) considering modifying the distribution board (via bypass). I revisited the thread that @Marty Backe created for it but the question posed by @RagingGrandpa was never answered and I feel it is very important. If the BMS's on the packs do cater for cutting the charge at 4.2v+ I am far more inclined to do the mod. If they don't and it's only dealt with via the distribution board logic...hmm not so sure. Cell overcharge is a pretty important safeguard, despite the fact I know my way around batts and am happy to monitor pack voltages frequently if needed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 8 hours ago, Planemo said: Interesting theory, and I never knew that the 134v had a version of active balancing, I thought they were the same as previous 100v wheels. Do you mind sharing where you heard this information? Thanks for the clarification. Thats a shame though, I could really do without having to keep an eye on the charge process to check whether it has stopped or not. What a pain, especially when my charge points (car outlets) are often away from where we are actually sitting Interesting to hear that you were able to continue at around 8A though, after @Mrd777's comment that he has to drop right down to 3A. I guess the answer to that is if the same charger at the same amp output goes to full charge on other wheels or Begodes with modded distribution boards it has to be the distribution board no?! I can't get that link to work, would you be able to check please? FWIW, my server goes to 11.5A happily, and doesn't 'seem' to be struggling at that which would suggest that it could indeed go to 15A @ 134v if required. When you refer to the 'Ali' charger we really need to know which one you are referring to. From what I can work out, the 'data server' chargers all seem to be around 2500w output, I have even seen some quoted at 3000w. So they should be absolutely fine at 12A/134v (1600w). In short, I don't think this is a case of the charger not being man enough but of course I'm open to the suggestion. My 8-amp value was not meant to be a precise number - I can't remember since it's been awhile. From my experience you don't have to babysit the wheel. This only happens when charging at the upper end of the wheels capability. For instance, instead of attempting to charge at 12-amps, use 10-amps instead (the values are for illustration only - I don't recall exact amperages). Finally, I think this "problem" is only with certain wheels. Today I'm going to try and charge the ET Max at 20-amps and will see what it does. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizra6ot Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 On 2/16/2024 at 7:46 AM, Planemo said: In short, I don't think this is a case of the charger not being man enough but of course I'm open to the suggestion. Yep idk but as you can see in the video (I've added a direct link + a screenshot) he no longer had this problem with this new charger and it charges at over 10A right up to the end He still has the same distribution board as before and hasn't modified/bypassed it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EUC Custom Power-Pads Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 On 2/15/2024 at 8:48 PM, null said: Sounds interesting @Tom384, I would be glad for a more active ballancing. I'm afraid this would have been noticed from people inspecting the BMSes though.. Anyone? Else: This is the adjustable charger I use. I never could reach 10A, maybe because the charge level wasn't low enough, not been able to test enough. Until now all chargers I have bought from ali (no PSU chargers) have ramped down the current toward the end, some more gracefully than others but they always did. It would be great if this was confirmed to be linked to the distribution board as Marty suggests. I also have a AliExpress 134V 10A charger, but not adjustable, but I think they are the same. The 10A is a lie, because the max amp is only 7.78A. It's not a wheel problem! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
null Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 1 hour ago, EUC Custom Power-Pads said: I also have a AliExpress 134V 10A charger, but not adjustable, but I think they are the same. The 10A is a lie, because the max amp is only 7.78A. It's not a wheel problem! Inexpensive chargers that do not output as much current as advertised are fairly common indeed, however these just output whatever they are capable of, they don't stop charging. In our case the charging stops somewhere along the way, dependent of Amps and % of charge. The same behavior is seen with several different chargers as soon as the current goes over 8A or around there.. (The threshold lowers as the battery is more charged). This could happen because of a faulty charger of course, but here the common denominator seems to be recent Begode EUCs.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EUC Custom Power-Pads Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 (edited) Yes, I understood that main problem and I've been following this problem for some time too, as I'm also getting my fast charger (PSU) from China in 4 weeks and I'm asking myself the same question whether this will also happen with my Master. Edited February 17 by EUC Custom Power-Pads 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
null Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 4 hours ago, EUC Custom Power-Pads said: Yes, I understood that main problem and I've been following this problem for some time too, as I'm also getting my fast charger (PSU) from China in 4 weeks and I'm asking myself the same question whether this will also happen with my Master. It seems really random, plenty of people can charge at full speed, probably a majority. Hope yours is fine! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planemo Posted February 19 Author Share Posted February 19 On 2/17/2024 at 6:22 PM, null said: It seems really random, plenty of people can charge at full speed, probably a majority. Have you actual experience of this? It would be good news to at least think there is some hope! As an aside, if theres no charge-stop within the BMS' in the packs themselves something else struck me - if we were to charge each pack individually to 67.2v (ie by-passing the distribution board) in order to top-match all packs for example, we would need to be careful? Is that right @RagingGrandpa? If one cell happened to go above the cut off (4.25v?) then charging would still continue..?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
null Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 2 hours ago, Planemo said: Have you actual experience of this? It would be good news to at least think there is some hope! No sadly I ment it in the sense that it doesn't seem to affect all people (some can charge at the right speed), not that it works intermittently.. (if that’s how you understood me) The little I have had the occasion to charge mine its been consistently limited.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planemo Posted February 19 Author Share Posted February 19 (edited) 10 minutes ago, null said: No sadly I ment it in the sense that it doesn't seem to affect all people (some can charge at the right speed), not that it works intermittently.. (if that’s how you understood me) The little I have had the occasion to charge mine its been consistently limited.. No that's OK, I understood you correctly I think, you were saying that some people can charge at high amps and complete a full charge. This is good news in that I may be one of the lucky ones! Really weird though if this is the case, @Bizra6ot states that the charger was the problem in his previous post but I still can't see why, especially when it clearly affects more than a few wheels and surely there must be a few different chargers being used?! My charge board is marked up 2022-2-28 REV1. It remains to be seen if mine works OK, I will of course update as soon as I get a chance to full charge it at say 11A. Edited February 19 by Planemo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
null Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 36 minutes ago, Planemo said: No that's OK, I understood you correctly I think, you were saying that some people can charge at high amps and complete a full charge. This is good news in that I may be one of the lucky ones! Really weird though if this is the case, @Bizra6ot states that the charger was the problem in his previous post but I still can't see why, especially when it clearly affects more than a few wheels and surely there must be a few different chargers being used?! My charge board is marked up 2022-2-28 REV1. It remains to be seen if mine works OK, I will of course update as soon as I get a chance to full charge it at say 11A. Ah yes, if so. I have read several people say that they had no problem charging their Begodes at 10A+ in spite of having the same distribution board. (Same naming and date as yours "Rev 01” in spite of it being V4 according to the thread about the voltage going down) I will hope for you that yours is fine, interested in your results. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrd777 Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 On 2/16/2024 at 6:56 AM, Planemo said: Ah OK I got you, yes I think I remember you posting about this 10A previously. Actually, I was getting mixed up with people/posts in the thread, it was actually @Mrd777's charger that I was meant to be enquiring about, trying to get a link just so I could see if it was similar to the server charger I had. If it is, then his data point of it stopping at about 75% is very relevant. At this stage I am seriously (but very reluctantly) considering modifying the distribution board (via bypass). I revisited the thread that @Marty Backe created for it but the question posed by @RagingGrandpa was never answered and I feel it is very important. If the BMS's on the packs do cater for cutting the charge at 4.2v+ I am far more inclined to do the mod. If they don't and it's only dealt with via the distribution board logic...hmm not so sure. Cell overcharge is a pretty important safeguard, despite the fact I know my way around batts and am happy to monitor pack voltages frequently if needed. Yes, Here is the link to the Ali charger. I just tried agin at only 10 amps and it stops at 75% full which is about 125 volts. If you try to turn it off and charge below 10 amps it still somehow doesn’t work. This problem is only on the EX 30, it has be that distribution board. Huge pain on AliExpress. | Lithium Battery Charger 120v 0- 20A 15A Adjustable https://a.aliexpress.com/_mPGw0Fc 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planemo Posted February 23 Author Share Posted February 23 1 hour ago, Mrd777 said: Yes, Here is the link to the Ali charger. I just tried agin at only 10 amps and it stops at 75% full which is about 125 volts. If you try to turn it off and charge below 10 amps it still somehow doesn’t work. This problem is only on the EX 30, it has be that distribution board. Huge pain Damn yeah so thats the same breed of charger as mine. Right I guess I just need to try mine and see what happens. Even worse that you can't just drop the amps and carry on, that makes it virtually unusable for my purposes. Like you say, it must be the distribution board. I will certainly update with my results. Cheers 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 6 hours ago, Mrd777 said: Yes, Here is the link to the Ali charger. I just tried agin at only 10 amps and it stops at 75% full which is about 125 volts. If you try to turn it off and charge below 10 amps it still somehow doesn’t work. This problem is only on the EX 30, it has be that distribution board. Huge pain on AliExpress. | Lithium Battery Charger 120v 0- 20A 15A Adjustable https://a.aliexpress.com/_mPGw0Fc The "Roger Charger" version certainly continues to charge the EX30 after you've lowered the current. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleepBloopBlop Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 I hear the new 50S version of the EX30 can charge at 20A now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizra6ot Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 @Marty Backe Could you try to charge your ex30 with the new Roger charger(ETmax V14 videos) to check if it behaves differently from the V2/V3? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 19 hours ago, Bizra6ot said: @Marty Backe Could you try to charge your ex30 with the new Roger charger(ETmax V14 videos) to check if it behaves differently from the V2/V3? Probably wouldn't be able to try that for some time since I'm not riding the EX30 at the moment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planemo Posted February 26 Author Share Posted February 26 On 2/15/2024 at 10:15 PM, Bizra6ot said: Feel free to talk to him about it i'm just reporting our chat, he rides the commander pro(which can be seen on the video that guli has posted on his home page) https://guli66.com/ with his Ali charger the charge cut off ~125V 12A then with the 4830 he now charges straight to 100% "As for the auto ramp down, it does go down on amps when the reading on the charger gets near 100%" Watch the 2nd video with the close-up on the display https://cdn.shopify.com/videos/c/vp/cdc5adec0e0a4577bca71f5ffeb20a73/cdc5adec0e0a4577bca71f5ffeb20a73.HD-1080p-2.5Mbps-24138445.mp4 Sorry I meant to say thanks for all this info. I have looked at the links and the 4830 does indeed look like a nice charger and clearly seems to do the job. I still can't work out what the problem is with the server chargers though, given we know that: 1. The server charger will charge other wheels no problem at high amps through till the end. 2. The 4830 will charge an EX30 at high amps through till the end with no modifications to the distribution board. One can therefore only assume that the server charger and Begode distribution board simply don't get on together for some reason. That reason is anyones guess at the moment 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bizra6ot Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 (edited) Yeah it's a headache lol Now add that as you can read above Marty's charger acts differently than Mrd777's... same for the one sold by Alienrides (Mason's Sherman S so no BG distribution board) "I have the Hou Hauwie 4850 charger which is a variable hyper charger. I charge my Sherman S with. Now lets say i charge at max amps the sherman will allow (17amps) it will fast charge to about 90-95 full. After that it will automatically turn down the amperage at a certain rate till its balancing at 3 amps to reach 100.8v its the same with a lot of chargers that ive seen. Alienrides charger doesnt do that. If i have it set on max amps (15 is it max) then itll run 15 amps into the sherman until the charge board cuts it off leaving no time for the pack do balance. Ive also reached out to alienrides about this to see if my unit was broken but they knowingly sell them like that." https://www.facebook.com/groups/ElectricUnicycle/posts/7214947425269825/ Edited February 26 by Bizra6ot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 (edited) 1 hour ago, Bizra6ot said: If i have it set on max amps (15 is it max) then itll run 15 amps into the sherman until the charge board cuts it off That's not li ion charging - such behaviour comes from a charger with a higher voltage as the max battery voltage. That's just senseless deterioration of the cells. If one does not want to wait for the cv stage (and balancing) to finish one can just stop charging with every normal (*) li ion charger. Has the same effect without stressing the cells... Edit: (*) correctly adjusted Edited February 26 by Chriull 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planemo Posted February 26 Author Share Posted February 26 21 minutes ago, Chriull said: such behaviour comes from a charger with a higher voltage as the max battery voltage. Hmm OK so heres a thought...is it possible that the onboard voltmeter on the server chargers reads under....? So everyone is adjusting them to what they think is 134/135v on the onboard meter but it's actually putting out say 136+? It's a bit of a long shot because the voltmeter on my charger is pretty much bang on (shows 135v - 134.4v on my meter) but if there are variances in calibration of the onboard meter it might explain why some aren't ramping down near the end. That said Marty seems to volt check everything on a meter and he has still had problems with his server charger & EX30 so... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.