Inmotions new CEO is bringing the compagny down?

[Frolic0415]

13 hours ago, null said:

I never supported the "Inmotion is the safer brand" moto some have been pushing in the past.

Until other brands have similar aggressive PWM-based tiltback I will continue to believe Inmotion make the safest wheels, probably the most safety effective feature I use when riding and I feel uncomfortable riding other wheels without it.

[bpong]

11 hours ago, WheelGoodTime said:

Seems like a lot a people here don't seem to like what I had to say ... 

Not true.  I mostly ignore your postings, videos and such.  Im sure you are a regular guy but some of the stuff you remark on, well, im not into conspiracy shxt and when i detect that shxt, i scroll on to the next posting or topic.  I wish you the best for 2024, but i cant say i pay much attention other than this response....take care man...

[daniel1234]

17 hours ago, WheelGoodTime said:

Conclusions based on all these facts is that the company is facing a crisis. The only area in which I injected my opinion was in how to fix it, which recommended starting with a leadership change. 

Is it fact and not just feelings and wishes? Give us something real to discuss.

Ok, what would be your "main change" as a newly pointed manager? Where you would steer the ship?

I don't like Inmotion products but still, if you look at sales then they not doing badly. History has proven that leadership change will not produce better products. Because managers don't make products ... LoL. 

[ORDO NOVUS]

Every failure has its own Name and surname. Every niche product requires understanding of your consumer demand.

If the ceo of EUC manufacturer doesnt actively uses its prototype products - he fails. you can not make a good wheel from the sofa. Bob yan failed more than twice, doing useless wheels that are worst in their class, he doesnt deserve any chance. Look what he is doing now - same thing that was in inmotion selling overpriced marketing but not the product and not recognizing any of his mistakes

if you respect yourself and your boss doesnt give you a chance to make a good product - retire immediately and if you are valuable man on the market you ll find a job. if you make 3 crap wheels in a row you are bad manager

[null]

15 hours ago, Frolic0415 said:

Until other brands have similar aggressive PWM-based tiltback I will continue to believe Inmotion make the safest wheels, probably the most safety effective feature I use when riding and I feel uncomfortable riding other wheels without it.

Ninebot and Kingsong also had agressive PWM based tiltback, basically everyone had it but Gotway.
BG have it now, and while I don't know how strong it is, you can set the PWM % it kicks in on.

Edited February 2 by null

[Frolic0415]

18 hours ago, null said:

Ninebot and Kingsong also had agressive PWM based tiltback, basically everyone had it but Gotway.
BG have it now, and while I don't know how strong it is, you can set the PWM % it kicks in on.

They have PWM-based tiltback, but it's not aggressive like Inmotion. On the V12 and V13 it basically shudders the entire wheel and is extremely difficult to push through or ignore

[null]

On 2/3/2024 at 10:42 AM, Frolic0415 said:

They have PWM-based tiltback, but it's not aggressive like Inmotion. On the V12 and V13 it basically shudders the entire wheel and is extremely difficult to push through or ignore

Doesn't sound very safe to me but to each his own.
The KS one is already strong enough to be impossible to ignore.

We have now stated our opinions, I guess we should leave the thread go on about Inmotions new direction.

edit: crazy, right 🙄

Edited February 4 by null

[Unventor]

No matter what people debate here Inmotion do not follow the forum these days as far as I am aware.I

Inmotion only know this if someone brings the attention to them though different channels. 

Edited February 3 by Unventor

[mhpr262]

On 2/1/2024 at 3:23 PM, WheelGoodTime said:

The V11Y has nearly zero commercial demand

that is a pity - it is basically a great wheel. Slim and lightweight and very good looking, and while the suspension is rudimentary it has always worked well enough for me. But I guess its flaws have caught up with it - super labour intensive to disassemble, repar and  change a tire and also with a shell that is very difficult to attach power pads to. And the ugly, orange, cheap 3D-printed looking parts it now comes with havent done its looks any favours.

[WheelGoodTime]

20 hours ago, Unventor said:

No matter what people debate here Inmotion do not follow the forum these days as far as I am aware.I

Inmotion only know this if someone brings the attention to them though different channels. 

It's been brought to my attention that IM leadership has seen the video. And now, we see what happens. The great news, as many already know by now, is that they fixed the dangerous firmware bug on the same day (or a day after) I released the video. I don't have any idea if the two are related. It's unfortunate that none of it was communicated en masse, but such is their current direction, and it's good that it's fixed now and safe to jump again 😊

[Unventor]

14 minutes ago, WheelGoodTime said:

It's been brought to my attention that IM leadership has seen the video. And now, we see what happens. The great news, as many already know by now, is that they fixed the dangerous firmware bug on the same day (or a day after) I released the video. I don't have any idea if the two are related. It's unfortunate that none of it was communicated en masse, but such is their current direction, and it's good that it's fixed now and safe to jump again 😊

They are not related. 

One day you might learn Asia works different to US. 

[Punxatawneyjoe]

2 hours ago, WheelGoodTime said:

I don't have any idea if the two are related

My guess would be, no. Pretty sure it was our friend @Forwardnbak who speaks directly with Inmotion service since he owns 3 Inmotion wheels and relayed the bug after producing his day 2 video on the 20th of last month. Although we all would like to think you wield this type of power. Unfortunately, it's just a case of the bug being reported by a user and Inmotion promptly fixing the issue as they have always done since I've known them. It coincidentally took a few weeks to repair the software bug and happen to have been fixed right after you published your hit piece.

[Forwardnbak]

I did report the bug directly to my 2 contacts at IM. I heard back the whole time they were communicating. They have been great and are looking to compensate me for the camera.

They messaged me on the 31st to tell me the firmware was available. 

Edited February 4 by Forwardnbak

[onewheelkoregro]

3 hours ago, Unventor said:

They are not related. 

One day you might learn Asia works different to US. 

Being Korean I am abhorred at how rude people are to everybody in America. In Korea the worst thing you gotta watch out for is being told you look tired or bloated, in America you can get cussed out for doing your job or walking too slowly through a crosswalk.

[Funky]

3 hours ago, mhpr262 said:

lightweight

Haha V11Y lightweight.. Nice joke. Had a good laugh. Cheerio..  

29kg isn't lightweight. It's 1kg shy from being a heavy class wheel. Best you can call V11Y is being a medium class. But never a lightweight. Would you put V11 and V5 in same lightweight class?  I think not.

Edited February 4 by Funky

[Mono]

On 2/1/2024 at 3:23 PM, WheelGoodTime said:

Conclusions based on all these facts is that the company is facing a crisis.

What percentage of InMotions revenue is generated from EUCs? How unprofitable was their EUC branch in actual numbers?

I suspect a few unsuccessful projects is nothing unusual or out of the ordinary for any healthy company. It would only be a company crisis if they had not enough resources to move forward, adapt their approach and create a few successful projects too.

[Mono]

3 hours ago, WheelGoodTime said:

The great news, as many already know by now, is that they fixed the dangerous firmware bug on the same day (or a day after) I released the video. I don't have any idea if the two are related.

I am confused why you have no idea whether the two are related: how could they possibly related given this timeline?

[WheelGoodTime]

6 hours ago, Mono said:

I am confused why you have no idea whether the two are related: how could they possibly related given this timeline?

Because I reached out to them days before I released it. The firmware ssue was communicated to IM well before it was filmed by forwardnbak, and it was ignored by IM until they had his video of it happening. 

And to the person who so kindly pointed out my apparent ignorance about the differences between Chinese business culture compared to Western business culture, I am already aware of the difference. 🫡

And for those that are surprising this and asking me for my sources, your answer is this: due to the sensitive nature of the subject matter, I'm unwilling to name names just to give myself credibility at the expense of some people's jobs and professional relationships. As much as I hate to make it a "source: trust me bro" sort of thing, that's how it has to be in order to protect certain individuals. On the bright side, much of what I said it's publicly available verifiable fact if one wants to do the research and look in the right places. Also, I gave a voice to those who didn't have the ability to say what I did without serious repercussions. So despite the naysayers claiming I'm either lying or saying X because I'm an InMotion-hating meanie-face, you are mistaken. I want IM to succeed, but sometimes hard things need to be said. So say what you will about me, but I stand by everything and have no regrets. 🙂

Edited February 5 by WheelGoodTime

[Punxatawneyjoe]

6 hours ago, WheelGoodTime said:

ignored by IM until they had his video of it happening.

You honestly don't expect us to believe this , do you? Astounding, you would say that. Well at least now we know for sure that you are delusional...

[WheelGoodTime]

34 minutes ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

You honestly don't expect us to believe this , do you? Astounding, you would say that. Well at least now we know for sure that you are delusional...

I have no reason to lie about it. But seriously, that's the one part you cherry picked out of the whole thing that I said? 

Edited February 5 by WheelGoodTime

[Mono]

7 hours ago, WheelGoodTime said:

On the bright side, much of what I said it's publicly available verifiable fact if one wants to do the research and look in the right places.

Where are these right places where I should look?

What percentage of InMotions revenue is generated from EUCs? How unprofitable was their EUC branch in actual numbers?

55 minutes ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

You honestly don't expect us to believe this , do you? Astounding, you would say that. Well at least now we know for sure that you are delusional...

I figured the reasoning is that InMotion knew of the bug (and had the fix) but needed the pressure of a public video to make a firmware release. This doesn't seem to make perfectly sense to me either, but that's what I figured seems to be the reasoning.

[UniVehje]

Moderator comment:

Please keep the discussion civil. No need to make it personal. Even strong opinions can be stated politely. 

End of moderator comment. 

Personally I think that we really don't know the reasons they changed their CEO. It is possible, that @Bob Yan did excellent job from our perspective but a business also has to make profit. Or maybe it was some other issue. We will probably never get to know as I think Bob has signed a deal to not talk about it. I hope he does, if he can. 

It is very common that some part of the company don't like changes. I'm not at all surprised that there are some disgruntled employees after a big change. We don't yet know how the new CEO is doing. Bob had a good plan and I hope something similar is still coming. I really hope Inmotion succeeds.It would be best for our hobby that they make good profit and develop new wheels. 

It's really not fair to criticise Bob without knowing the details. But as an outsider I think that Inmotion made a mistake in focusing on wrong customer base. They could have owned the commuter market with well built and ergonomic lighter wheels. But they went for fastest and had that title for a couple of weeks. And then they made a modular design (very good idea) and targeted first off-road and steep hill climbing market (not so good idea). Now their only 18/20" wheel is V11 (most popular size group, old design and not modular). V8 and V10 lines target very popular price points and these are also very old designs. Only new designs are V13 and V14 which target somewhat niche audiences. They make really good software, motors, motherboards, lights and now even suspension. They could have made a lot of money by focusing on commuters that can be registered legally and bought by normal people (not us forum enthusiasts). I think trying too much to make performance wheels for hard core enthusiasts was a wrong move. 

Edited February 5 by UniVehje

[WheelGoodTime]

3 minutes ago, Mono said:

Where are these right places where I should look?

What percentage of InMotions revenue is generated from EUCs? How unprofitable was their EUC branch in actual numbers?

If you look at the prices of the V13 and V14, as well as the available stock online, you can gauge the success of a product. In the case of the V13, the price is $3500, a fairly heavily discounted rate. Also you can gauge the success of a product by its price tag compared to the price of its original MSRP. Batch 1 V14's are in stock at nearly every retailer because of so many cancelled preorders. The V11Y is largely unavailable anywhere because of a battery recall (I know very little about this so I'll not speak on it further) and low commercial demand. If you reach out to vendors about these sorts of things and foster a relationship with them, they'll keep you in the loop about what's selling and what's not. In this case, IM has very low demand compared to their competitors in the EUC space at this point in time.

As far as how escooter revenue is going compared to EUC revenue at IM, I don't know anything about that. I can just tell from a logical perspective that EUC sales are low at IM. I imagine escooter sales keep them afloat more than EUCs, which makes one think, "if EUC sales aren't good, maybe they'll just stop making EUCs instead". I hate to think that may ever happen and I'd never suggest it - but if it's not profitable, then I can see why they'd do it from a financial perspective. I don't want it to happen, but if that was their logic then I get it.

[Mono]

@WheelGoodTime@UniVehje, hasn't the planning and development that lead to the alleged InMotion misery taken place under the lead of Bob Yan? If he didn't manage to steer things in the alleged right direction but all spiraled downwards (allegedly) when he was leading the company, I can't quite see how anyone should be convinced that he is the right person to convert the downward spiral now. I don't quite understand how you can say "all these new wheels InMotion developed are uncompetitive shelf warmers but the CEO did an awesome job", this makes zero sense to me.

2 minutes ago, WheelGoodTime said:

If you reach out to vendors about these sorts of things and foster a relationship with them, they'll keep you in the loop about what's selling and what's not.

I suspect you don't talk about vendors in Russia, Asia or the EU? What's your information on the global sales numbers of the V8 line?

[UniVehje]

7 minutes ago, Mono said:

@WheelGoodTime@UniVehje, hasn't the planning and development that lead to the alleged InMotion misery taken place under the lead of Bob Yan? If he didn't manage to steer things in the alleged right direction but all spiraled downwards (allegedly) when he was leading the company, I can't quite see how anyone should be convinced that he is the right person to convert the downward spiral now. I don't quite understand how you can say "all these new wheels InMotion developed are uncompetitive shelf warmers but the CEO did an awesome job", this makes zero sense to me.

To be clear, I didn't say anything like that. I agree with what you wrote and pointed out IM made big mistakes (probably, from my point of view without knowing the details from inside) under Bob's leadership. And just because the new CEO is bad (allegedly, no evidence so far) doesn't mean they didn't need any changes. I agree that I would like to see a rider as a CEO but that's not enough. 

But I did say that Bob's leaked plan was good (modular design, new wheels coming in all sizes etc. what was discussed last year here). But it's also very possible that Bob gambled all the resources for R&D on two new wheels that were in wrong categories and now they don't have the funds the complete the plan. Maybe they should have started with a good all-arounder in 14" rim category and then utilise the modular design to make 12" and 16" wheels later. And V11F was a missed opportunity, that's what people wanted. @Bob Yan care to elaborate here? 

Also agree that we cannot forget all the vendors not focusing on EUC market. If I ever see EUCs sold on "normal" stores, they're always Inmotions. I think they still have a large market for their older designs even though V13 and V14 are probably not selling as much as they hoped.