My Inmotion V14 Adventure Trials, Tribulations, and Triumphs

[novazeus]

7 hours ago, UPONIT said:

The conclusions you draw here aren't logical. Making "damn sure a reviwer's wheel was bulletproof" would defeat the purpose of test units. The point is to test the product that is coming off the line so that flaws can be corrected. Doing something special to a unit to be tested makes it unrepresentative and prevents the company from uncovering errors that need addressing. 

I feel like a broken record here... fried board aside, wasn't the Hall sensor failure kind of a vindication of the redundancy built in to the wheel? He completed his ride on the redundant sensor and then the failed sensor kept the wheel from being used again until it is fixed. Right?

Yes, it would be nice if things were perfect. But this is reality. There is a difference between a negligent, widespread flaw and an occasional failed part. If you want your opinions to be based on reality as much as possible, remember that one bad incident in a YouTube video is not in any way representative of reality. You can't draw conclusions based on it, or predict outcomes. It is statistically meaningless.

Yes, it is almost always good to have information. Marty's testing and informing is welcome and appreciated. But what you do with that information matters.

are u referring to the marty that just spent $50k getting his leg patched up that will never be as good as new again, marty?

[mtl]

10 hours ago, UPONIT said:

I feel like a broken record here... fried board aside, wasn't the Hall sensor failure kind of a vindication of the redundancy built in to the wheel? He completed his ride on the redundant sensor and then the failed sensor kept the wheel from being used again until it is fixed. Right?

I don't think it's clear yet what caused the error with Marty's V14. Around the time of the V14 reveal, Inmotion commented on YouTube that the wheel has only a single Hall sensor. That may have changed or whoever commented on Inmotion's behalf may have had their information wrong. Or since they're using the V13 controller, they just haven't updated their diagnostics and app to give a better (wheel-specific) error message that doesn't imply there's more than one sensor in the V14.

If there is just one Hall sensor in the V14 and the failure occurred while Marty was riding, I don't know why that wouldn't drop him. The Lynx will supposedly have a mitigation for Hall sensor failures but I don't know how that works or if other manufacturers do anything similar.

[Funkymonk7]

12 hours ago, UPONIT said:

The conclusions you draw here aren't logical. Making "damn sure a reviwer's wheel was bulletproof" would defeat the purpose of test units. The point is to test the product that is coming off the line so that flaws can be corrected. Doing something special to a unit to be tested makes it unrepresentative and prevents the company from uncovering errors that need addressing. 

I feel like a broken record here... fried board aside, wasn't the Hall sensor failure kind of a vindication of the redundancy built in to the wheel? He completed his ride on the redundant sensor and then the failed sensor kept the wheel from being used again until it is fixed. Right?

Yes, it would be nice if things were perfect. But this is reality. There is a difference between a negligent, widespread flaw and an occasional failed part. If you want your opinions to be based on reality as much as possible, remember that one bad incident in a YouTube video is not in any way representative of reality. You can't draw conclusions based on it, or predict outcomes. It is statistically meaningless.

Yes, it is almost always good to have information. Marty's testing and informing is welcome and appreciated. But what you do with that information matters.

I cancelled my pre-order because of this. This isn't a test unit, its a production model unit. And quite frankly, if one of the first wheels out the door is inoperable after less than 100km, that's a big enough reason for me to wait it out and see what kind of issues are going to pop up with the wheel. I may consider going with the Lynx or the Patton instead.

[novazeus]

8 hours ago, Funkymonk7 said:

I cancelled my pre-order because of this. This isn't a test unit, its a production model unit. And quite frankly, if one of the first wheels out the door is inoperable after less than 100km, that's a big enough reason for me to wait it out and see what kind of issues are going to pop up with the wheel. I may consider going with the Lynx or the Patton instead.

i love love love my v13's and they are a bargain now. if u don't need portability. it's a rideout from ur garage type of wheel.

[Marty Backe]

Battery Connections

Out of an abundance of caution I disconnected the four battery packs. I must say, it is super easy to disconnect these batteries and the connectors appear to be very robust.

Requires the removal of two machine bolts to remove the upper plastic covering.
 

 

[DavidB]

Yes, there is still a lot to like with this wheel. Hopefully those connectors will be the new standard.

 

[eezo]

10 hours ago, Marty Backe said:

Battery Connections

Out of an abundance of caution I disconnected the four battery packs. I must say, it is super easy to disconnect these batteries and the connectors appear to be very robust.

Requires the removal of two machine bolts to remove the upper plastic covering.
 

 

Those are some thicc connections.

[Nostris]

On 11/3/2023 at 10:39 PM, Marty Backe said:

There is no such thing as one tire pressure for everyone. That would be crazy don't you think. I know people who like to ride at 50-psi and some at 20-psi. There is no right answer.

Inmotion also says you shouldn't ride their wheels if you are over 60-years old.

I ride ALL my wheels at 28-psi including the three wheels mentioned above with the graphs. Apples-to-Apples comparison.

I'm not attempting to give absolute range numbers. Only relative range. RELATIVE to the other two wheels I believe the V14 has less range

Exactly this!  Many, many people seem to think the pressure stamped on the sidewall of the tyre is the ‘Riding’ pressure. It is not. It is the MAXIMUM COLD TYRE INFLATION PRESSURE.   This is the Do Not Inflate To More Than This Pressure. All tyres have this mark. Look on your car tyre and it will have a cold tyre inflation pressure on the side wall.  This will however be totally different to the recommended inflation pressure in the vehicles hand book. I would also add that INMOTION themselves also seem confused by this in their hand book on this issue  Also, the tyres used on the bigger heavier wheels are now motorcycle tyres and are designed to run at lower pressures because of their very stiff sidewall construction. They are very different to the bicycle based tyres that we used some years back, that did need a higher pressure to support the tyre tread. As you say Marty, there is no one pressure fits all. Each wheel is different and each rider is different. I also ride at 28/30 psi…for my use case, ride feel and comfort, that works for me. Some do like very high pressures, but for me the ride is too twitchy, bouncy and uncomfortable at high pressures. 

[jimjam.nyc]

I will never buy another 1st batch Inmotion wheel again. After v12, v13 and now v14.. (i know its only 1 wheel and issue so far) but history is an indicator here. 

They have a terrible 1st batch track record, and even  an issue with V12HT that they wont even mention or speak about... No comment on the no comment of that. 

My v12 was problemless.. but i did have to swap a control board out of caution due to the issues found in production.. and the constant worry the thing would drop me at any moment was always a damper on my ride. 

That being said. I really like my v12HS (which is a first batch). I think their wheels are good, but the notion that inmotion is the benchmark for safety and quality is a bit crazy sounding to me at this point.

 

[onewheelkoregro]

51 minutes ago, jimjam.nyc said:

I will never buy another 1st batch Inmotion wheel again. After v12, v13 and now v14.. (i know its only 1 wheel and issue so far) but history is an indicator here. 

They have a terrible 1st batch track record, and even  an issue with V12HT that they wont even mention or speak about... No comment on the no comment of that. 

My v12 was problemless.. but i did have to swap a control board out of caution due to the issues found in production.. and the constant worry the thing would drop me at any moment was always a damper on my ride. 

That being said. I really like my v12HS (which is a first batch). I think their wheels are good, but the notion that inmotion is the benchmark for safety and quality is a bit crazy sounding to me at this point.

 

So which brand do you think is the "benchmark for safety and quality"? That's why I never buy first batch electronics or anything for that matter. There are always unseen problems that have to be dealt with

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, jimjam.nyc said:

I think their wheels are good, but the notion that inmotion is the benchmark for safety and quality is a bit crazy sounding to me at this point.

That is because you haven't own an older Begode wheel.

Additionally, you are not looking beyond what you see on the surface. There is a lot more to a wheel than just initial QC issues.

IMO, I think the V13 was a showcase for Inmotion's reputation for build quality and safety. Sure, the suspension system isn't class leading, but it works well enough, and there is a lot to like about the V13.

Having said that, after my ownership experience with my Abrams up to this point, and a couple of Intro2YVR rides on the Patton, I am becoming a fan of Veteran wheels. I like the way the Abrams ride, and how reliable and durable it is. Initial QC was similar to the V12, not perfect, but manageable. It is a workhorse that is also joyful to ride. The V12 was a fun ride, but that ended after I got used to the Abrams. When I go back to the V12, it doesn't feel that good anymore. However, I do like the V12 PWM tailback, which the Abrams lacks. The V12 probably has more safety features than the Abrams, but I wouldn't know what I am missing without doing some digging.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 7, 2023 by techyiam

[jimjam.nyc]

2 minutes ago, techyiam said:

That is because you haven't own an older Begode wheel.

Additionally, you are not looking beyond what you see on the surface. There is a lot more to a wheel than just initial QC issues.

 

 

 

 

 

I am defiantly looking beyond what i see on the surface. I have owned wheels from all of the manufactures except for begode. Some 1st batch.. Some later batch wheels. I  understand what goes into a wheel. While I may not be an engineer like many on this forum claim to be.. I def do know a little more than I take the wheel out of the box, look how shiny it is and ride it. I work on my own wheels. I dont send them back to ewheels for fixing, and worked through many of QC issues. 

QC issues are bolts not tightened, no Loctite, things coming from factory unplugged, etc.

Inmotion wheels especially 1st batch have been pretty plagued with issues. Its just a fact. Beyond that there are plenty of issues with battery errors, blown mosfets, software bugs, etc. Most of these things hazardous to our health. These are not surface QC issues. So i do take a little offence to the not looking past surface. ;-)

What is the point of all these safety features if your control board blows in less than 100km? I like the wheels from all the manufactures.. even begode. I am defiantly not loyal to any of them.. I just need to be honest that inmotion gets a reputation of safety... I just dont see it. What I see (even as an inmotion owner) is on the surface and on paper these wheels look safer than the rest.. but in real life the failure rate is just as bad as the rest. 

After my v12 experience, and comparing it to my Patton experience.. I dont think I would get a 1st batch inmotion again.. Coming from experience here.. not from reading posts. 

I would still get an inmotion wheel.. Just not out of the gate. 

 

 

 

 

[jimjam.nyc]

37 minutes ago, onewheelkoregro said:

So which brand do you think is the "benchmark for safety and quality"? That's why I never buy first batch electronics or anything for that matter. There are always unseen problems that have to be dealt with

I wasnt going for a brand vs brand thing.. I was Just saying i dont think inmotion deserves the label of safest company at this point. 

[Cerbera]

45 minutes ago, jimjam.nyc said:

Just saying i dont think inmotion deserves the label of safest company at this point. 

I would say they are the company that is most actively trying (and really designing) to improve / overhaul safety but they still remain susceptible to all the 'normal' early batch problems. Also, some of their safety based 'features' seem to result in more 'unable-to-ride' time than wheels without them.

[jimjam.nyc]

2 minutes ago, Cerbera said:

I would say they are the company that is most actively trying (and really designing) to improve / overhaul safety but they still remain susceptible to all the 'normal' early batch problems. Also, some of their safety based 'features' seem to result in more 'unable-to-ride' time than wheels without them.

you said it much better than I did! Thank you!!  heheh

[techyiam]

14 minutes ago, jimjam.nyc said:

After my v12 experience, and comparing it to my Patton experience.. I dont think I would get a 1st batch inmotion again.. Coming from experience here.. not from reading posts. 

Personally, since I am not into modding nor doing unnecessary repairs, I will wait patiently until owners share their thoughts. If I can help it, I would not purchase early batch wheels from any manufacturer. They all have problems. The question is how many, and how serious.

[jimjam.nyc]

6 minutes ago, techyiam said:

Personally, since I am not into modding nor doing unnecessary repairs, I will wait patiently until owners share their thoughts. If I can help it, I would not purchase early batch wheels from any manufacturer. They all have problems. The question is how many, and how serious.

I am with you on this one as well. Thankfully with the blitz of wheels coming out. I have lost the itch to buy anymore at this point. I wont lie, I do get fomo with smart bms and some of these things.. But then I go out there and read all the goings on.. and usually come to the conclusion most of these things are not at a stage yet where I should be willing to drop a few K just for that upgrade yet. 

[techyiam]

6 minutes ago, jimjam.nyc said:

I am with you on this one as well. Thankfully with the blitz of wheels coming out. I have lost the itch to buy anymore at this point. I wont lie, I do get fomo with smart bms and some of these things.. But then I go out there and read all the goings on.. and usually come to the conclusion most of these things are not at a stage yet where I should be willing to drop a few K just for that upgrade yet. 

Exactly.

Actually, I was surprised that you were thinking of upgrading so soon, since the Patton is a very good wheel already with a small number of manageable issues. I think it would be hard press for you to know with any level of certainty that the new wheel that you would buy, would indeed be giving a real upgrade of real value. Moreover, you would be exposed to new risks of early batch issues.

The newer wheels that are coming out do sound quite compelling, at least on paper, and the flow of new wheels coming out seems to be nonstop. I am at a point where I think I should wait longer for all these more advanced technological improvements and features to settle and mature some before pulling the trigger.

For those who can wait, they will be rewarded with wheels that have better spec's, and more features. Additionally, the wheels would work better and be less troublesome. Even if there are lingering issues that will never be fixed by the factory, the issues would be known, and solution would be shared. Plus, owners would end up with a smaller collection, or have fewer wheels to sell. 

[novazeus]

2 hours ago, techyiam said:

Sure, the suspension system isn't class leading, but it works well enough, and there is a lot to like about the V13.

i'm gonna go ride my pasture in a bit and i'm gonna try and find this selfie stick someone gave me.

i box bladed a path thru the pasture, really to just knock down the weeds and turds, and when u put a little too much down on it, it will skip and make a washboard surface. i have this new one set at 200psi and all the way counter clockwise ie no damper. and 42psi florida morning cold, 70 degrees, knobby tire. and this wheel floats over the washboard flawlessly. don't have stairs but the terraced nature of my little hill is exactly like stairs except i'm not crazy enough to do it on concrete, and it does my "stair drops" flawlessly with zero bottoming out. i'm at 200 pounds riding weight easy. trust me, first ride out in the pasture, i was amazed the way the tire contoured to these irregularities. definitely if there's any ranchers out there, like flat florida or texas, or wherever, this is the wheel u need. 

although i do feel sorry for people that live in hilly places, wheel wise, beautiful otherwise. haha, on my road, esp with the michelin at 47psi,  it's just freewheeling, hadn't ever heard the motor strain like it did trying to climb my little hill. i felt sorry for it. like i would if it was a horse.

oh yeah, just to add, moving the pedals lower and forward was an amazing help for me in my situation out here on the s22. braking isn't a priority. i'm not in traffic, just navigating animals. 

so i might customize my pedals to have more pedal out front, i already figured it out last night. i'm just gonna do the pasture one that way, because it's the one that needs me on my toes, no pun intended.

Edited November 7, 2023 by novazeus

[Planemo]

I do hear the consensus that Inmotion may be 'trying' more ideas to make wheels safer but it doesn't mean a lot of those ideas don't work. Furthermore, if I was was an EUC company 'trying' to appear as some martyr of safety over all the other manufacturers (which I appreciate), I wouldn't be releasing ANY test wheels to the public, YT hacks or not. All testing would be done in-house, preferably under lab conditions on test rigs. This isn't beta testing of some new app, these are real vehicles with real world injuries if they fail.

I like Inmotion, and I do think they have their hearts and minds in the right place, but as some others have said I'm not entirely convinced that we should be putting them up on some sort of 'safety pedestal', at least not yet.

[onewheelkoregro]

2 hours ago, Cerbera said:

I would say they are the company that is most actively trying (and really designing) to improve / overhaul safety but they still remain susceptible to all the 'normal' early batch problems. Also, some of their safety based 'features' seem to result in more 'unable-to-ride' time than wheels without them.

Beat me to it. I was going to say that... LOL

[onewheelkoregro]

IMO, Kingsong is the "safety minded" company. That's why they don't release high voltage wheels and they impose the most speed limiters in their software. I came from a 16x and it was a blast to ride but was constantly getting the, "Please De celerate" warning. Since I upgraded to the V12 HS I haven't heard a single warning since I switched. I'm coming up on 1000 miles on Sonic and I haven't looked back. I like the safety Kingsong offered but I believe they are too cautious and limit the speed too much. But that is just my humble opinion. Kingsong's highest voltage wheel is 126 volts and that is the S22. And now they are releasing 156 volt and 164 volt wheels, so either Kingsong needs to step it up or they will go the way of Ninebot...

[Unventor]

58 minutes ago, onewheelkoregro said:

IMO, Kingsong is the "safety minded" company. That's why they don't release high voltage wheels and they impose the most speed limiters in their software. I came from a 16x and it was a blast to ride but was constantly getting the, "Please De celerate" warning. Since I upgraded to the V12 HS I haven't heard a single warning since I switched. I'm coming up on 1000 miles on Sonic and I haven't looked back. I like the safety Kingsong offered but I believe they are too cautious and limit the speed too much. But that is just my humble opinion. Kingsong's highest voltage wheel is 126 volts and that is the S22. And now they are releasing 156 volt and 164 volt wheels, so either Kingsong needs to step it up or they will go the way of Ninebot...

Brands do warnings different. 

Note, this is a long post. Skip the parts you  find of no value. But I put this in here as it links into why I follow V14 inf/debate  daily now. 

I have had both Inmotion and Kingsong and tested Z10 too. The way Inmotion do it is gradually makes it harder to lean into the direction you are moving. It not so much as blame you have a warning as other brands. If you start off with Inmotion this becomes second sensation as pedel feedback familiarity then feels natural. Coming from other brands most tend to listen for beeps. This is the difference riding the tiltback vs the beeps. Now both can be be disregarded by the right by intent or unintentionally. In general one should not do aggressive acceleration on down slopes or near top speed as the risk to miss warning are that much higher. A very good example is the KS16X. 

I prefer the Inmotion warning as it feels less interuptive to me. Granted other can have different preferences. I would expect the first system would tend to be what a rider prefer. In my case I wouldn't push to the limit anyway. I don't do it on any other means of transport. Having self balance unit means going past the limit is very likely to end bad. 

For those that learned to ride on "old school" wheels prior to 40kmh top speed had an easy time to learn about this vs new riders picking up an EUC that goes past 50kmh. The old wheel were easy to hit the limit so it would be more in the frame of mindset a crash could happen. 

This is why also suspension was a big thing when Inmotion came out with this. 

Looki g into what drives people to buy a first batch are two major things. Either the EUC provides something that is a must have to the rider or the rider have must upgrade now situation (broken old model). I have made the must have things on a few times, KS18L and KS1 6X and V11. All first batch models. 

Now for my next EUC it is not critical just yet and the release from Inmotion falls into my off major ride season so waiting until spring is not a huge problem for me. 

Also looking into cost of upgrades makes it a much more calculated decision especially as I at this moment are in between jobs for my first time. This situation can change any day and as such also my long tern ride needs. But spring in 3-4 months from now, I would have a much better chance to see in V14 or V11Y is a better upgrade vs my V11. 

The pase few days I have gone back to my KS18L due to parking option when doing daily rehab physical training at hospital. My V11 is too big to fit the closet I can  secure the EUC in. 

This is  part reason to why I am looking at V14.  I do hope that @Jason McNeil saw the post of @mtl of a more Street biased V14 series and can help Inmotion to see the benafit of this. I like that idea but how easy or adaptable the V14 platform is for this I do not know.

Note on my rehab training. No I didn't get injured or had an accident this time. But for different reasons I have been riding less for some time and now I feen my reumatish punish me for it. So I am trying to combat this and get back into riding more in the spring. This why I ride as I do as it helps my body from going into a 80-100 year old mode at my age. I have been there and that is why I started riding. 

So the launch times of V14 and V11Y suits me perfectly. No get a first batch for me this time. 

Edited November 7, 2023 by Unventor

[UPONIT]

On 11/6/2023 at 5:08 AM, novazeus said:

are u referring to the marty that just spent $50k getting his leg patched up that will never be as good as new again, marty?

yes. why?

The scope of a single incident doesn't change the fact that it is a single incident.

[UPONIT]

On 11/6/2023 at 10:19 AM, Funkymonk7 said:

I cancelled my pre-order because of this. This isn't a test unit, its a production model unit. And quite frankly, if one of the first wheels out the door is inoperable after less than 100km, that's a big enough reason for me to wait it out and see what kind of issues are going to pop up with the wheel. I may consider going with the Lynx or the Patton instead.

The Law of Large Numbers still applies. 

5 hours ago, jimjam.nyc said:

I will never buy another 1st batch Inmotion wheel again. After v12, v13 and now v14.. (i know its only 1 wheel and issue so far) but history is an indicator here. 

They have a terrible 1st batch track record, and even  an issue with V12HT that they wont even mention or speak about... No comment on the no comment of that. 

My v12 was problemless.. but i did have to swap a control board out of caution due to the issues found in production.. and the constant worry the thing would drop me at any moment was always a damper on my ride. 

That being said. I really like my v12HS (which is a first batch). I think their wheels are good, but the notion that inmotion is the benchmark for safety and quality is a bit crazy sounding to me at this point.

 

It's not an InMotion issue, though, is it? 1st batch wheels are always going to be more risky than later batches, right? The more units there are in the field, the more flaws are likely to have been uncovered and corrected. 

InMotion are objectively more safety minded than other companies. Attention to detail, build quality, redundancy... they all are part of making an EUC as safe as possible. They aren't rushing new models out the door like some other companies. They seem to be more open about their process and willing to address community feedback.

4 hours ago, jimjam.nyc said:

 I just need to be honest that inmotion gets a reputation of safety... I just dont see it. What I see (even as an inmotion owner) is on the surface and on paper these wheels look safer than the rest.. but in real life the failure rate is just as bad as the rest. 

After my v12 experience, and comparing it to my Patton experience.. I dont think I would get a 1st batch inmotion again.. Coming from experience here.. not from reading posts. 

I would still get an inmotion wheel.. Just not out of the gate. 

I appreciate what you are saying, but it isn't based on anything scientific. It is based on your anecdotal experience.

It seems smart to not get batch 1 wheels from ANY manufacturer. Of course they are going to have more flaws than later batches. This is a niche industry with limited resources for exhaustive testing  under infinite use scenarios.

I had a bad charger board on my V13. It was also super easy to replace and InMotion were very helpful and responsive.

My V11, Mten4, and V13HT have all been flawless so far. And that is also anecdotal, and therefore statistically meaningless.